Low Pressure Mags???

[batteryfree]

First i am just going to say that i love my automag. But why doesnt AGD come out with a low pressure valve? I personally think that if they came out with a low pressure valve they could get alot more people buying there guns.

also i think that if AGD comes out with a low pressure it will be extreamily nice and extreamily low pressure. and i love low pressure guns.

[sitting_duck]

First i am just going to say that i love my automag. But why doesnt AGD come out with a low pressure valve? I personally think that if they came out with a low pressure valve they could get alot more people buying there guns.

also i think that if AGD comes out with a low pressure it will be extreamily nice and extreamily low pressure. and i love low pressure guns.

:rolleyes:

[Dayspring]

And the benefit of LP guns (besides shooting lower into a tank) is what?


First i am just going to say that i love my automag. But why doesnt AGD come out with a low pressure valve? I personally think that if they came out with a low pressure valve they could get alot more people buying there guns.

also i think that if AGD comes out with a low pressure it will be extreamily nice and extreamily low pressure. and i love low pressure guns.

[Carbon]

First i am just going to say that i love my automag. But why doesnt AGD come out with a low pressure valve? I personally think that if they came out with a low pressure valve they could get alot more people buying there guns.

also i think that if AGD comes out with a low pressure it will be extreamily nice and extreamily low pressure. and i love low pressure guns.

well, lower pressure guns do shoot "smoother" but i suppose that is all subjective. But, i dont think "low pressure" is a big enough selling point to negate tried and true design. Not to AGD anyway.

[Z-man]

As I recall, when we talked with Tom in January he said something like:

"If I wanted to build the coolest paintball gun I would make a valve that could take a direct input of 4000psi and have an insane recharge rate.

If I wanted to make a popular gun I would make it super low pressure with tons of shiny parts and an eye."

sigh....

[Magluvr]

First i am just going to say that i love my automag. But why doesnt AGD come out with a low pressure valve? I personally think that if they came out with a low pressure valve they could get alot more people buying there guns.



This has been posted before. But here are some reasons:

1) LP is hype because the actual psi hitting the ball is about the same whatever marker your shooting

2) The Mag line already suffers "poor efficiency" and that is because TK lowered the psi required to shoot lower in the tanks. You want horrible efficiency, you can try an LP Mag. (Not to mention the dump chamber would have to be enlarged resulting in a bigger, and heavier marker!)

3) As far as I can remember AGD sells these markers simply because they have one of the best designs ever. They have never to my knowledge been a company that sold to the "masses"; they sell to the bright few that don't buy into all the other companies' marketing hype.

[SoYo-MoFo]

I heard of a mod that came out some time ago that made the automag operate at lower pressures. I believe it was called the "magic box" by smart parts. I think it was discontinued because it didnt sell and at the time people didnt know the true benefits to low pressure guns. Anyway thats what i heard. Whether or not it will function well with a lvl 10 i do not know. rare item indeed (or rumor...)

[Dayspring]

It was an expansion chamber built into the valve. It didn't do squat.

[SpecialBlend2786]

I heard of a mod that came out some time ago that made the automag operate at lower pressures. I believe it was called the "magic box" by smart parts. I think it was discontinued because it didnt sell and at the time people didnt know the true benefits to low pressure guns. Anyway thats what i heard. Whether or not it will function well with a lvl 10 i do not know. rare item indeed (or rumor...)

All the magic box did was.........nothing.
It never really ended up doing anything performance wise.

[SoYo-MoFo]

well i dont know a whole lot about it because it came out in late 93, when paintball wasn't extremely popular like it is now....(i was about 7 years old then)

anyway, i found some information on it.
http://www.erc.msstate.edu/misc/splat/files/automag.html#number_tag20
Seems you are right about it doing nothing at all

[SanDiegoMag]

I think it hs been said.... BUT I do have to say comprimising low pressure for high pressure is BAD becasue you get slower recharge rates. You want 400psi compaired to 750psi?! Well you will have to deal with the max bps of 13 or so BPS.

[batteryfree]

ok fine i was entirely wrong lol

[batteryfree]

just isn't lower pressure usually very consistant.

[spasticsquirrel]

if 400 psi isn't consistant, then why can alot of markers shoot darn fast at that speed?

[-=Squid=-]

Well, one benefit would be getting more than 2/3 of your fill out of the gun...

Another would be the fact that you could run a lesser quality macroline without having to run so much pressure through it...

Mag guys call other guns nothing but hype... but guess what, I hate to break it to you, but everybody uses timmys etc for a reason...

But im sure everybody is just going to call me a mag hater.. :rolleyes:

[FalconGuy016]

A lot of you are shoving off the advantage of shooting deeper into the tank like its nothing. It is very significant

[Butterfingers]

just isn't lower pressure usually very consistant.

Consistency dosent have anything to do with low pressure.

The only advantage of going low pressure is being able to shoot deeper into the tank leading to more shots per fill.

Other than that Low pressure is actually disadvantagous as far as performance is concerned.

[shivors]

I would think that if low pressure operation would help an automag...Tom Kaye would have had a low pressure mag long ago.

Wonder if this is somehting they tested at some point.

[Cannon-Fodder]

Ok shooting farther into the tank hmmmm....

By going to a lower pressure you will need to use more gas per shot - most people will agree on this.

For every shot you take the pressure in the tank lowers because you are taking gas out right?

Now if a higher pressure marker takes less air per shot, then the pressure in the tank will lower a smaller amount per shot than a lower pressure marker will due to it using more gas correct?

Ok so you feel that your low pressure marker gets 100 more shots out of a tank because it can function with the tank pressure that is lower than the high pressure marker. But if the higher pressure marker took 100 more shots to get to that point....

You may feel that you are getting more shots per tank by 'shooting farther into the tank' but in reality you are getting about the same or even less in some cases.

[shivors]

Smart Parts didnt patent low pressures did they?

[Cannon-Fodder]

The definition of Low pressure has changed over the years.

The orginal definition of high and low pressure was a high pressure marker was a marker that needed full pressure from a CO2 tank around 800psi and a low pressure marker was one that needed Less than that.

Think about that,
at one point a 600psi marker was concidered to be low pressure.

The Low pressure is more consistant than High pressure thing started because you needed to put a regulator between your tank and the marker to lower the pressure. A marker with a regulator will be more consistant than one without one.

So of course a low pressure marker is more consistant.

Now with the definition of low vs high pressure being between 200psi (or less) and a 400psi marker this dosn't work out as well because both of them have a regulator now.

hmmmmm...

[Butterfingers]

ok lets get some facts out there before everybody speculates this into an irrevelant thread.

FACT:

1) Efficency: Its the same potentally... : PV=NRT NRT is a constant You raise the pressure you lower the volume you rise the volume you lower the pressure... As far as efficency is concerned its potentially the same. It all depends on the design of the gun. It takes a certain amount of energy to shoot a ball 300 fps. The efficency at which a gun can deliver this energy HAS TO DO WITH DESIGN NOT OPERATING PRESSURE.

Given equal efficencies low pressure will give you more shots per tank because of the ability to shoot farther into it.

2) Speed: High pressure no doubt. High pressures mean higher potential diffrences. Higher potential diffrences means that gasses get to where they want to go faster. Since high pressure guns rely on less volume the gas has to fill less space. The result is MUCH quicker recharge no shootdown.

3) Coolness: Low pressure... Just cause it sounds cool, and its the IN thing right now.

4) Performance: High Pressure... No doubt... you cant argue physics. Higher energy gas recharging smaller spaces = quicker recharge. Given equal designs a high pressure gun would blow the low pressure gun away by alot...

It is this property that allows parts to be made smaller because air passages dont need to be so big to flow sufficent air.

[shivors]

But will low pressure make my marker a "sniper" gun?

j/k

[Destructo6]

But will low pressure make my marker a "sniper" gun?
Of course it will! Well, you might need a 21" barrel with a bipod. :)

Low pressure is a means to an end, with some paintguns. On mech Autocockers, it allows you to use very light hammer springs (with a heavy hammer) to yeild a nice trigger pull. With Spyders, you open a host of problems going much below 500psi.

Low pressure is also a means of selling parts to those looking for bragging rights.

[sitting_duck]

But will low pressure make my marker a "sniper" gun?

j/k

um..............................yes? :D

[tyrion2323]

I'm a lover of almost all guns - mags, omens, cockers, spyders, etc etc.

I don't prefer hp or lp one way or the other. The only benefit I've noticed is the lp markers make less noise. That's a plus.

Jacob

[gc82000]

Ok one point: the magis box was in a way SP first scam on the paint scene. A precursor to what is happening today in the industry. The magic box was useless to the performance of the mag, but for clever advertisements and pro team usage. The magic box was sold to hundreds of unknowing customers.
point two: It did allow the mag to operate at a lower pressure. And that made the mag perform negatively. Slower recharge and misfires.
the mags are fine as they are now and only AGD should be the ones to change on their designs.

[ERut]

I hate to break it to you, but everybody uses timmys etc for a reason...


Man, I still haven't figured out what the reason is :)

I think the actual psi hitting the ball on a timmy is almost twice as much as the psi that hits the ball on the mag.

[mdThanatos]

With Spyders, you open a host of problems going much below 500psi.



What kind of problems occur if you change the operating pressure of a spyder below 500psi? There are lots of people who convert their spyders to lp and have them running very nicely.

[Evil1]

My 03 shocker is a low pressure gun and everyone said things like "you are going to have shootdown" or "the efficiency is going to be terrible". Well, the only one they were right on was the efficiency part but like I said before: "who cares with all day air" Any way now that I got the HE bolt for my 03 shocker it is much better and it has always been fast as hell with no shootdown and it has always had damn good consistency. All of the people that I know that complain about thier shockers, don't take care of them right or don't know the first thing about them. Half of the people playing these day don't know anything about their guns and then complain to everyone when they will not shoot correctly because it was never lubed once after it left the factory.

[Destructo6]

What kind of problems occur if you change the operating pressure of a spyder below 500psi? There are lots of people who convert their spyders to lp and have them running very nicely.
Reliable recocking, mainly. My Imagine runs nicely at 325-350psi, but the various Spyder boards are lousy with, "LP: having trouble recocking" threads. The Madman valve seems to appear in those threads at an alarming rate.

[mikebridge]

don't forget, with a magic box + CO2 you could get your mag to shoot hot at will

[spasticsquirrel]

All i care about is that i think they should get more shots out of a tank when you dont have all day air. I wouldn't mind if they ran at 1000psi, all i would care is if it had a lot of shots out of the tank. If they had low shots out of a tank but ran at 60psi, i would not get that upgrade.