Bad_Dog's trigger stop thread

[Bad_Dog]

Due to the amount of people asking about trigger stops recently, I figured I'd set about making an easy to understand set of instructions to follow while attempting to install them on your frames.

I personally have Trigger stops installed on both the top and the bottom of my Intelliframe double trigger. I've installed them on my teammates Y-grip, and when asked to do another teammates Y-grip, thats when I took all the pictures.

I've been using the stops for a little over a year now, and have expierienced no bolt or sear chipping, but before you modify your trigger, you have to understand that there is a risk involved.

I accept no responsibility for any damage that you do, or can do to your trigger, frame, or any part of your marker by following these instructions. They are simply here to better help explain the best way that I feel there is to do the modification, and told by someone who has done it a few times.

The tools required are as follows:
~Vise of some sort
~Soft cloth
~Drill capable of holding a 7/32 inch drill bit
~7/64 inch drill bit ;)
~6/32 Tap + Tap wrench
~Fine metal file (emery board may suffice)
~Nail set (center punch)
~Hammer
~Something to punch out the trigger pin with (I use a small Torx wrench)

The materials required are as follows:
~6/32 set screw (1/16 in long)
~6/32 set screw (1/8 in long)
~LockTight or substitute for holding set screws in place

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3641/triggerdiagram1combined.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5061/Step4.gif

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3237/Step5.gif

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4882/Step6.gif

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4900/Step8.gif

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2/Step9.gif

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8591/Step10.gif

[Janitor]

Nicely done Bad Dog!

[Cool fool!]

sweet dude!

[AGDlover]

sweet dude i may have to try this soon :cheers: :D

[the electrician]

hey nice job.

good presentation, and description.

that shows a good method that most people could follow, and uses tools that are pretty common.

[soccer4minimags]

Somebody sticky this already.

[silentdeath55]

Bad_Dog and I also installed trigger stops on my y-gripped mag. These things are great. If you have a chance and the means, I highly reccommend picking some up.

[JimmyBeam]

someone should mass produce and sell these so those of us who are either machanically uninclined or just too damn lazy can have one too.

[AGDlover]

someone should mass produce and sell these so those of us who are either machanically uninclined or just too damn lazy can have one too.

comeon i'm 13years old and i could do it

[JimmyBeam]

ok maybe you missed the too damn lazy part.....

[Cool fool!]

do i need to remove my trigger frame from the body in order to get the trigger out?

[Rift]

Hey Bad Dog i just did this mod but while doing it i noticed a bit of a mistake in the drill bit size if you used a 7/32 the hole would be to big to thred later i had to use a 7/64 inorder for the 6/32 Tap Wrench to thread the hole in the end. Great mod btw!

[Deathshadow9k]

i second the vote on makin this a sticky

[Chingis]

Hey Bad Dog i just did this mod but while doing it i noticed a bit of a mistake in the drill bit size if you used a 7/32 the hole would be to big to thred later i had to use a 7/64 inorder for the 6/32 Tap Wrench to thread the hole in the end. Great mod btw!

yes i also did this last night and noticed that also, Vermont American tools makes a 2 pack a drill bit and a tap in one pack for like 4 bucks, worked awsome

thanks for the info i also bought 2 , or the 1/8 long allen sets and had np with them in the trigger

[Pain For Pleasure]

Looks good, can't wait to try it. You might wanna edit your post with the changes in drill bit size.

[Bad_Dog]

good eyes guys, my apologies to everyone for the error, it has been fixed


and now to take your attention away from my mistake... I give you the banannaman!

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

[Bobsbarricades]

i think im missing the point of this mod. is it just to make it so that the trigger doesn't move side to side?

[Bad_Dog]

well,
If you've erver looked at the trigger while firing your mag, you'll notice that about halfway through the pull, the marker fires, yet there is still a small space behind the trigger for it to travel. Now unless you have super hand controll, and you're able to stop your finger from pulling that extra slack... exactly when the marker fires, you're going to pull the trigger back untill it hits (essentially wasting time and movement). By installing trigger stops you dont shorten the pull required to fire the marker, but you do remove the slack behind the trigger once the marker has been fired; thus removing extra travel per shot cycle... and saving time. By saving time on each cycle your speed and rate of fire increase, and in the end it requires less movement (per cycle) to fire your marker...

catch my drift...?

[Bobsbarricades]

oh, i got your drift alright :)

thanks much for the answer. I think ill put some on my double when i get that ULE.
Is it possible to walk a ULE??? 15 ounces is just one ouch short of a pound, and I have some difficulty walkin 250 grams on the spyders esp frame.

[behemoth]

do you see a wear behind the screw where it hits the frame?

[Bad_Dog]

Origionally posted by FiRe
do you see a wear behind the screw where it hits the frame?

no, but there is a little C shaped mark from the set screw making contact with the frame...

[Rift]

just one question do you have any trouble getting your valve out? because the bottom set screw can prevent the sear from compleatly pushing the on/off pin in while not gassed up.

[Chingis]

just one question do you have any trouble getting your valve out? because the bottom set screw can prevent the sear from compleatly pushing the on/off pin in while not gassed up.

i did this mmod like a week ago , i have no problems getting out the valve

[Bad_Dog]

nope,

I dont have a problem removing my valve... but that is one thing to consider when installing the stops. To have the set screw adjusted to the point where the valve cant be removed... I dont think the marker would fire anyways; thus to have the marker fire the screw would have to be backed out... also allowing the valve to be removed...

just when you all thought you were safe... I throw another confusing explination your way!

[evil laugh] mua ha ha ha ha haaaa [/evil laugh]

[ghed]

Very nice instructions :)

Btw how much would a tap & tap wrench cost?

[Chingis]

i paid 4 bucks for mine
@ true value

[JrnyFan1985]

oh, i got your drift alright :)

thanks much for the answer. I think ill put some on my double when i get that ULE.
Is it possible to walk a ULE??? 15 ounces is just one ouch short of a pound, and I have some difficulty walkin 250 grams on the spyders esp frame.

it is definitely possible to walk the ULT with or without these trigger stops installed. use the tips of the fingers to walk. for me, it creates a more forceful pull required for a mechanical gun, but still provides the rapid fire needed. btw, i have walked my ULT (sweet!).

bad dog, a question for you: say you don't really care about the amount of side to side swing you have on your trigger. can you just install the set screw to stop the trigger pull and just leave the top part of the trigger alone? Because that also seems to me like it would also remove the fear (paranoia) of having your valve stuck because the sear is in an awkward position.

[Bad_Dog]

actually the threat of "valve stuckage" comes from the rear set screw (the one behind... not on top)

the screw on top just removes play (wiggle) both foreward & backward, and side to side... by applying force from above.

with the trigger stops installed, the sear should [i]never/[i] be in an ackward position. As a matter of fact, if it's in any position other than it would be without the TS mod, there is something very wrong.

[JrnyFan1985]

sorry another question: where does the sear touch the trigger?

[Bad_Dog]

where does the sear touch the trigger?

right below that piece that sticks out to engage the safty.. the highest point on the back of the trigger (you can usually see some wear from where the sear hits)

[behemoth]

are you offering this service for any of us taht are worried that we'll fubar our triggers?

Thanks (everything ive touched lately has broken)

-Josh

[Bad_Dog]

are you offering this service for any of us taht are worried that we'll fubar our triggers?

As for the trigger stops, I've already done three triggers via request that I do it for the person seeing as of how they couldnt do it themselves... so I guess that yes, I am now doing the TS mod to triggers for other people. Unfortunatly there are about a bazillion different types of triggers out on the market, so I have to limit myself to the ones that I know; thus I will only install trigger stops on AGD triggers (blade & double). I also wouldnt accept the mod on annoed triggers, unless you want your trigger to be re-annoed; due to the process of filing the holes smooth, the anno would most likley be marred.

If anyone would be interested, PM me, and I'll give you some more information.

[JrnyFan1985]

i tried to attempt your trigger stops and i think i stripped the screw. i just got the back set screw in far enough to allow the marker to fire. however, whenever i tried to go into any type of rapid fire 6bps+, i'd get bolt stick. however, all in all not a bad mod. I just ended up lightening my trigger to get me that .00001g's less weight.

[OhMyAMoose]

Bad Dog - Have you ever thought about doing this mod for people? I would gladly pay you because I dont have all the tools.

[Bad_Dog]

Bad Dog - Have you ever thought about doing this mod for people? I would gladly pay you because I dont have all the tools.

look up 3 posts ;) (at #32)

[JrnyFan1985]

ehh sorry dude, but i'll just save up my money for the deadlywind.

[awwdavy]

Just finished the trigger stop mod and it works great. Cost a total of 5 dollars for the tap, drill, and screw. The only thing u need is a drill, and it doesnt even have to be a good one. THANKS BAD DOG FOR THE GREAT INSTRUCTIONS

[Battlewear]

I third the Sticky!!!

I am planning on doing this soon to my mag.. I dont think my frame and trigger fall into your list of ones that you would do Bad Dog, so I am going to attempt it my self..

The only worry I have at this point is on the vertical potion behind the trigger the hole with the sear pin comes out of is very long, it goes down almost past the start of the second finger in the trigger (obvoiusly a double trigger).

I am concerned about that but a friend of mine said it should be ok, but he owns a cocker, what does he know ;) hehehehe

Keep up the cool work BD, what other cool helpfull mods have you done?

[TheShark]

Any way to do this with the stock carbon fiber frame?

[AGDlover]

after looking at my stock frame you can't get a set screw in the top because you need some flat area on the op for the set screw to hit on the frame it self and you could maby do one on the bottom, it would be low but it can be done. so yes and no

[TheShark]

Well I think the back trigger stop is more important anyway, and I'd be happy with just that if it doesnt take much to accomplish.

[Pickle]

I vote for sticky too. I did this mod and it worked great. I would however, suggest better quality pictures for the less mechanically inclined. They worked for me but may not for others.

In fact Bad Dog, if you take some nice quality pics and spruce it up a bit I'd like to put it on paintball4all.net

[Pain For Pleasure]

Did anyone with an X valve do this? I noticed on mine that I didn't need the bottom one. The trigger would get pushed back before it hit the frame making the bottom one useless. The top one, eh, it didn't take off to much, and it made it a little easier for me to shortstroke. Not much though. Directions and everything were exellent though. I am now looking for just a a blade trigger if anyone wants to trade for one with it already installed. email me, I dont check my Pms often on here. bliebl@nycap.rr.com

[Bad_Dog]

wow, I've been pretty busy lately so I havent been watching this thread...


Just finished the trigger stop mod and it works great. Cost a total of 5 dollars for the tap, drill, and screw. The only thing u need is a drill, and it doesnt even have to be a good one. THANKS BAD DOG FOR THE GREAT INSTRUCTIONS
excellent, you care to share any pictures?


I am planning on doing this soon to my mag.. I dont think my frame and trigger fall into your list of ones that you would do Bad Dog, so I am going to attempt it my self..
if you've got any questions pop me a PM! I'd be glad to help as much as possible...


Well I think the back trigger stop is more important anyway, and I'd be happy with just that if it doesnt take much to accomplish.
I've never attempted anything on the stock frames, now you've sparked some interest in the subject... I'll take a look into it within the next few days...


I vote for sticky too. I did this mod and it worked great. I would however, suggest better quality pictures for the less mechanically inclined. They worked for me but may not for others.
if I only had a higher quality digital camera!


Did anyone with an X valve do this? I noticed on mine that I didn't need the bottom one. The trigger would get pushed back before it hit the frame making the bottom one useless. The top one, eh, it didn't take off to much, and it made it a little easier for me to shortstroke. Not much though. Directions and everything were exellent though.
Actually I have installed these on a Ygrip for an RT ULE custom, from what I've heard it took a bit of tweaking and tinkering but it all worked out for the guy (with the X valve)

maby he would care to post on the results, I'll send him a PM.

other than that, keep up the good work guys!

[rifleman wi]

..well that would be me.... :p ok.. i did actually use the bottom stop... yes it did take a lil tweeking.. i had it set short enough so that i could rip on the trigger allmost like an electric trigger.. it was amasingly fast... but i had problems with the gun not re cocking ( trigger rod didnt have enough room to reset, would stick) but i think they work great when adjusted right.. you just have to make sure the trigger rod has enough room to fully reset.. i can walk my gun pretty fast.. and i can still bounce it fast also...but i dont have any numbers for either of those... i also had no short stroking problems either... but i really like the stops.... any other questions just pm me.. -Jeremy

[Pain For Pleasure]

Rifleman- How did you adjust it? Just like a normal valve? When I tried mine, it seemes like there was no clear cut end where I could adjust it to. It made it so that I sometimes it would fire, and other times it wouldn't. Also, when you say walkable, did you also have ULT? I just have the stock on/off, so that may be the difference. If you could post your experience tuning it, that would be great, because now its just making my trigger look ugly with no function. I also thought it would be better to post here rather than PMs because other people may have the same issues.

[rifleman wi]

yes i have the ult... and how do u mean how did i adjust it..?.. i had the screw set so that there was only a little slack after the pull ( when the RT kicks in).. i dono.. since i have the ULT.. i dono if it will make a big diffrence in adjustments.. it might..

[jrod]

Thanks Bad Dog for this great post. I just finished the mod on my Tac One. It works great. I only did the rear trigger stop, but I'm confident enough now to try the top stop as well. I bought a tap and drill set from Sears for only $11.99. The screws cost 20 cents each. This mod is very easy if you take your time. The trigger is a relatively soft aluminum that is easy to drill. The worst that can happen is that you destroy a $20 trigger.

[cledford]

I whole-heartedly recommend this mode as well!!!!! I did it last weekend and the results were spectacular! I could really never shoot the ULT prior to the setscrews without chuffing every 2nd shot or so. I put the setscrews in and once adjusted (about 5 minutes of tinkering) I have not chuffed once since!!!! At all!!!! I also noticed that my ROF went WAY up after installing the setscrews. I played half a day last weekend and felt I could shoot as fast as my electros when fanning the trigger.

The only issue I had is sometimes the trigger rod gets stuck in a "limbo" type position where it is neither forward nor back and the gun is locked up. I fix this by degassing/gassing up using my on/off. The pop of regassing resets everything. It happened a lot when I was adjusting the setscrews and then it happened like twice during play. It only happens when I pull the trigger very slowly. Haven't figured it out yet.

With the ULE body, X-valve, all aluminum barrel, mini-mag rail and Intelliframe this marker is BY FAR the lightest I’ve ever held. The small decrease in ROF over a top end electro is not that much considering the huge weigh difference between the 2.

Anyhow, thanks for the how-too!

-Calvin

[jrod]

I whole-heartedly recommend this mode as well!!!!! I did it last weekend and the results were spectacular! I could really never shoot the ULT prior to the setscrews without chuffing every 2nd shot or so. I put the setscrews in and once adjusted (about 5 minutes of tinkering) I have not chuffed once since!!!! At all!!!! I also noticed that my ROF went WAY up after installing the setscrews. I played half a day last weekend and felt I could shoot as fast as my electros when fanning the trigger.

The only issue I had is sometimes the trigger rod gets stuck in a "limbo" type position where it is neither forward nor back and the gun is locked up. I fix this by degassing/gassing up using my on/off. The pop of regassing resets everything. It happened a lot when I was adjusting the setscrews and then it happened like twice during play. It only happens when I pull the trigger very slowly. Haven't figured it out yet.

With the ULE body, X-valve, all aluminum barrel, mini-mag rail and Intelliframe this marker is BY FAR the lightest I’ve ever held. The small decrease in ROF over a top end electro is not that much considering the huge weigh difference between the 2.

Anyhow, thanks for the how-too!

-Calvin
I got the same problem. I think this is what everyone refers to as bolt stick. I think I got mine fixed by adding two shims to the level x. I also backed out the trigger set screw a little bit. It seems to be working now. I'm out of air now, but I'll know Saturday how it works.

[urbansix]

up.....

I can never find this and i'm trying it this weekend....thought it would be stickied by now.... :tard:

[Mrmacdude]

I don't get something.


Why is the back trigger stop more important?

If you dont pull it back all the way, the sear wont trip... there's no adjustment to be made.

I woulda thunk the top one is the only relevant one.

[trains are bad]

Pull the trigger back slowly, and you will notice the sear trips toward the middle of the pull, then the trigger can go back a bit further. The back stop keeps this extra travel from happening.

IMO the front screw is POINTLESS because you can do the same thing by adjusting the length of the sear rod. Of course a bunch of people will now notify me that OMG YOU NEVER MESS WITH THE SEAR ROD!!!! because legend has it, catastrophic things will happen, even though a front trigger stop DOES THE EXACT SAME THING and causes the exact same problems when improperly adjusted.

If you want to minimize pretravel, adjust the sear rod outward to adjust the slack out, but ALWAYS make sure there is some slack between the rod and the trigger when the marker is aired up, or bad things WILL happen. ;)

[RogueFactor]

IMO the front screw is POINTLESS because you can do the same thing by adjusting the length of the sear rod. Of course a bunch of people will now notify me that OMG YOU NEVER MESS WITH THE SEAR ROD!!!! because legend has it, catastrophic things will happen, even though a front trigger stop DOES THE EXACT SAME THING and causes the exact same problems when improperly adjusted.

Which happens to be the reason why AGD does not condone the use of trigger stops, and if improperly used invalidates your warranty if found to be the root/cause of the problem.

As long as your willing to pay for your own mistakes, nobody really cares. Its when a user attempts a mod that doesnt work out, and then expects the manufacturer to pay for it :nono:

Pay me now, or pay me later...tinker at your own risk.

[PrimoRocker]

This thread died and i want to do this.