Help! Broadband on 2 computers...Help!

[XspyX]

Ok, the computer I am using right now is connected to the cable modem. I also have a computer in my room which I want connected to the net. We bought a HUB. I have a wire going into the modem that connects with the HUB. From that I have 2 wires going into each computer. This one works fine but the other computer won't.

I probably need to set something up, but I don't know what. Thats why I need your help. So, tell me what to do or point me in the right direction.

Thanks

;)

[shartley]

When you set up Networks, you have to remember to grant each system the ability to DO things or SHARE things. This is like allowing access to multiple HDs on a system, Printers, Scanners, etc. The same is true for Internet Access. Make sure you enable Internet Sharing on each system. Just connecting them together is NOT enough to use or even access all things on other systems.

You can even allow each system different levels of access, and control, concerning any other system also part of the Network. This is good if you have, let’s say, a main system for the adults, and one system per child (having 2 children). You can let one child have more access and use of overall Network systems and abilities, while restricting the other to only SOME.

I hope this helps. I know this was more than you asked for, but I also know others read the posts too.

(Note: This does not apply to ALL Networks, but does for most “home” networks with Network Hubs.)

[XspyX]

How do I go about enabling internet sharing?

[shartley]

For a complete guide do the following:

1) Go to START
2) Click HELP
3) Choose INDEX tab
4) Type “Internet”
5) Scroll to “sharing connections” and highlight it.
6) Click DISPLAY
7) Read and when you get through with the first big paragraph use the “click here” link for more information.
8) Follow the instructions.

Hope this helps.

[~Backdraft~]

XspyX cannot access his internet now...lol i don't know what he did but its not happening....shartley, any more suggestions?? I will let XspyX know what you suggest.

[Miscue]

Unless you have some funky cable modem, you don't need internet sharing. Typical cable modem box throws out 8+ IPs. See if the light on the hub is going blinky blink for the computer that is not working. Check the light on the back of your nic if it has one. Missing lights, physical issue. If they seem to be ok, go through your network settings carefully. Make sure your nic is binded to TCP/IP... set to DHCP, etc. Still don't work... try a different port/cable... dump out everything in network control panel and try again (network related files end up replaced with a new set).

[Miscue]

In case you had a reason to use Internet Sharing...

98FE does not have it built in. You need SE or ME.

If you're having a hard time finding it, it might not have been installed to begin with. Go to Windows Setup->Internet Tools in Add/Remove programs and you can add it there.

[Miscue]

(This info is of the last ditch effort variety) Once in a while (rare)... if you let Windows chose a driver for your nic... it doesn't work correctly going out to internet, although it may work fine on your LAN. Some Realteks for instance. Try using the driver that came with your card even if it says that driver is older than the current one. Also can get from the vendor's site if available. Sometimes... reference drivers don't work.

[shartley]

Well, sounds like XspyX did something that would constitute an “Oops”. I cannot think of any reason for him to not have ANY Internet connection now. Unless he messed up his main system settings.

Miscue brought up some good points, but ones that would probably only confuse those who had limited working knowledge about this subject matter anyway. What I always suggest is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). I suggest setting up the actual Network first and making sure it WORKS. Then go back and do your Internet stuff. That way, worse case situation is that you have a working Network but still only one system connected to the Internet… that is MUCH better than all the systems connected to the Internet, but none of them actually Networked properly together (if that makes sense.. LOL).

Again, Miscue brought up a good point about the VERSION of Windows being used. I always assume that everyone uses the SE or ME versions (if they seem to be half way proficient). So, I would suggest reading what Miscue wrote… slowly, and carefully… and if that does not work, go back and start again with the tried and true…. Set up a working Network, test it, verify it works correctly.. THEN enable Internet Sharing as stated in both Miscue’s and My posts.

And I would point out that depending on WHO your Cable provider is, they like to CHARGE per system you hook up to their service (over 2). So by all means, feel free to just use the full capabilities of the Box (heehee)…. I like to run them all through one IP. There are advantages for this as well as disadvantages… but for ME, it works just fine. That is why I always default to “use Internet Sharing”. But I guess it falls under the saying of “there is more than one way to skin a cat”. And after all, as long as the cat gets skinned, that is what matters, right?

Of course, there is always the possibility that things just will not work… computers are funny that way. Example… I set up my systems with a Network and all, and it just did not work right. I then had MY tech come and take a look. He verified that everything was done correctly, but it still did not work right. He then went home. The next day I added yet another computer to my Network (doing the SAME things I had done before), and suddenly they ALL worked correctly. Explain THAT! LOL

Like I said… funny things these computers are.

I am sorry I am not of more help, but as Miscue could tell you, it is MUCH easier sitting at the problem source and fixing the problem, than trying to do it in a forum or on the phone. Often times in person problems can be solved in 5 minutes that would take hours (and longer) in other ways. There are just too many variables we cannot see from here.

(Thanks for the help Miscue.)

[Zumina]

return your hub and buy a router. You'll be a lot happier having done so, as the router itself acts as both a firewall, and an internet connection sharing device. Simple and to the point for $100.

[shartley]

Once again, another person brings up a good idea. SUN WARRIOR suggests just using a router. This would work also, but since you already HAVE the HUB stuff, it is just as good for home use (if set up right)... so USE it. You see, although Routers are great and can have (as he mentioned) them set up as a firewall.. it is not needed (I will explain farther along).

Routers will work, but are normally for larger scale networks. Again.. THEY WILL WORK FOR CONNECTING ONLY TWO COMPUTERS... but they are not specifically designed for that. Routers forward data packets from one place to another, like Hubs do... However, routers are OSI model Layer 3 devices, and forward data depending on the Network address, not the Hardware (MAC) address. For TCP/IP networks, this means the IP address of the network interface.

Routers isolate each LAN into a separate subnet, so each network adapter's IP address will have a different third "octet" (Example: 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.2.1 are in different subnets.). They are necessary in large networks because the TCP/IP addressing scheme allows only 254 addresses per (Class C) network segment. But they are not always needed (note: I am NOT saying not to use them, or that they will not work… because they DO.) with small one or two system Networks (such as is used with most home LANs).

They can also act as Firewalls for your home network, but this is redundant since most Cable Modems (and the ISP's) have protection built into the system. Adding additional firewall protection can often cause problems (but not always) with data transfers between systems, and even with allowing standard data to pass INTO your Network from outside sources. This causes a host of problems that most people who use this type of setup learn to “get around” when doing selective activities, such as playing games, sharing files, etc.

But most of the people I know end up removing any self imposed firewall protection soon after they set it up (concerning Cable Modem connected Home Networks only), or play the “Activate / Deactivate” the firewall game depending on what they want to do at the moment. This to me is just silly… but hey, do what you have to do, right? (Not getting into MY security set up.. LOL) And you can also set up individual Firewalls on each system depending on its actual needs… the possibilities are almost endless.

I then went looking for some definitive answers to which is better, a HUB or Router. Guess what? There is NO definitive answer. In fact, there are many ways to set up EACH, and so many variables involved that two Techs setting up the same type of Network can often do it differently using the same basic tools. This is what causes the Forum Help problem. Depending on what the actual systems HAVE, and are using currently, will determine the best plan of action.

Sure, there are basics that remain constant, but it is the little “tweaks” that cause the problems. And what is BEST for the individual is just that.. what is best for the individual. LOL If it WORKS, and can be set up and maintained.. that is what is best.

Please keep in mind that I am NOT a Computer Tech or Network Tech, I have people who do that, or if I get in over my head. LOL But I have seen enough to know a couple things. And one thing I found out is that what is simple (or seems simple watching Network Techs do it because they know how to think on the fly) is often not so simple to do yourself, OR to explain in a Forum environment. And again… none of us are sitting at XspyX’s systems (which would be MUCH better for providing actual answers for him).

I am also NOT disagreeing with SUN WARRIOR. This is not an agree or disagree issue. It is about pointing out advantages and disadvantages to each method of Home Networking. They BOTH work, and trust me, they BOTH work well if set up correctly. And like many things, you can talk to two people who set up their Networks quite similar and yet have different opinions on how it is working for them. One differing variable in their setup or needs will determine their final outcome and opinions of the setup.

I hope this additional information will help someone better determine which is better for them.. Hub vs. Router. Heck, you could go all out and use BOTH… LOL WHY? I have NO earthly idea! But you COULD. I know large Networks that do (and the reasons they DO are ones that a Home Network will not encounter.. unless you have a HUGE home with hundreds to thousands of computers and several Networks.. etc.), but have never seen a Home Network with only a couple systems do it. LOL But again, you COULD. And as with all things, just because you CAN does not mean you SHOULD.

But we all SHOULD be connected to the Internet (just my opinion).. and if we have multiple systems at home, it is a good idea to share resources and abilities… thus, you NEED to get them Networked. And how you do that should be what works best for YOU and your needs, be it a Hub or a Router, or even directly connecting just two systems (but that is ANOTHER story.. LOL).

I hope XspyX gets his stuff sorted out.

[Zumina]

well, he obviously can't plug the modem into the hub and expect it to work on both systems when only one has a logged MAC adress. He also does not have win 2k/ME so internet sharing is out. Considering the setup he has, I would reccomend a proxy server for the time being while he weighs other options. All he needs is the proxy itself, and another NIC for the system with the working connection. lemme know what you think. However, I still think a router is the best way to go.

[shartley]

well, he obviously can't plug the modem into the hub and expect it to work on both systems when only one has a logged MAC adress.
Very true.


He also does not have win 2k/ME so internet sharing is out.
Because of this comment I thought I missed some information that was posted, so I went and read it all again. You may be correct in what he has or may not have, but unless you got this information from some other source, we don’t actually KNOW what he is running. So we don’t know if he has 98SE or newer. I know Miscue mentioned the OS issue, but we never heard if that was the problem.


Considering the setup he has, I would reccomend a proxy server for the time being while he weighs other options. All he needs is the proxy itself, and another NIC for the system with the working connection.
Again, unless you are running off of information NOT posted in this thread, it would be hard to determine what actual system or setup he is currently running. If your assumptions are correct, I would agree.


lemme know what you think. However, I still think a router is the best way to go.
It may be his best option, running a router and not a hub. It also may not be. Like I said, we are all flying pretty blind here, unfortunately. We can make assumptions, diagnosis, and offer opinions… BUT without any hard information it could ALL be worthless. LOL

That is why I was very hesitant in trying to give specific advice, but offered only general information. That way he could take that and match it up to his actual situation, equipment, and needs. And I know that once you set up a Hub, adding additional systems is a snap (not saying doing the same with a router would be difficult.. but Hubs are pretty darn quick and easy once set up correctly.).

Again, I think it comes down to what he CAN do, what his experience and skill levels are, and what he is actually working with….. All of which we actually know very little about. So what WE would do is pretty much a mute point here. BUT this thread has been GREAT for information purposes. It offers various views and gives the readers a CHOICE, and a base to begin their decision making process.

SUN WARRIOR, thanks for all the suggestions and comments. Keep them coming!

Miscue… any other things you can think of that might help?

And HEY!!!!! Is he STILL offline? LOL An update and additional information would be GREAT. That way we would be able to offer more accurate advice and information.

[Temo Vryce]

Ok you guys went way off the deep end on this one. The first thing you should do is find out if your ISP supports multiple IP addresses. If they do find out what it would cost to aquire a second IP for you other machine. It costs me an extra $10 CDN for mine. You can then set up your second comp the same way youu setup your first one. Or you could go out and buy a router as suggested earlier. Hope this helps you out some.

[shartley]

Temo Vryce,
Good point (the paying for the other IP Address).. but as for going off the deep end? LOL I don’t think so, sorry. And here are the reasons why….

If you have a Network set up you gain the ability to use ALL systems together. The advantages of this FAR outweighs a simple payment of $10 per month for an additional IP Address. You can play system-to-system games without having to go “online” for it, share HD space, processors (for those who use multiple processors for things they do), etc.

Where if you simply get another IP Address (Or in essence, an additional Access Account) you only solved ONE issue.. connecting to the Internet. But if you Network your systems, you can kill two-dozen birds with ONE stone.

That only leaves the question of HOW you want to Network your systems together… the topics being discussed. And this was all directly derived because he originally stated he HAD a Network Hub and was trying to use that to provide the second system with Internet Access.

He is also a teenager trying to hook HIS computer up with (what I would assume is his Family Computer) the other system that already HAS the Internet connection. Paying an additional Internet Connection FEE just would not make sense, or why would they NOT have already done that? It is about expanding on what you already have, and taking advantage of existing resources.

Both a Network Hub and Card set, AND a router costs about $100 each (give or take). Now take into account your suggestion of simply adding an additional Access Account for $10 per month. For the same amount, you would get either 10 months of Internet Access (your suggestion), or unlimited extra Internet Access and expanded resource use (our suggestion).

I don’t know about anyone else, but it sounds like Networking is not only more cost effective, but also gives you FAR more options and expanded uses than simply paying for an additional IP Address. And like I pointed out, since it pays for itself in less than a year, what would the actual savings be in the long run?

Now add to that the possibility that they might want to add MORE computers in the future, if they set up a Network, they simply plug in the new system (more or less). What would they need to do if they just paid for the additional IP Address? What would be the added expense?

Again, thank you for your comment and suggestion. I will however continue to tout the benefits of Networking and even more so since he already began the process. It just makes sense, no matter HOW he ends up doing it.

[Zumina]

ah, what a think tank the friendly corner here on AO is.

[~Backdraft~]

I'm sure XspyX greatly appreciates all of these responds unfortunately he can't access the internet right...i'll will call him and read this stuff out to him and hopefully he can try and figure it out...thankyou everyone for helping a fellow ao member out! ;)

[steveg]

hi you guys like to make life complicated. I have two 98se
computers and occasionally a linux box all internet sharing

there are two methods

mine which is a linksys befsr11 (1 port) router and a hub

the second being a linksys befsr41 it is a router and 4 port
switch

the second is the more elegent because it doesn't require
the hub

with each computer you set the IP address to "obtain an IP address automatically" and thats it.

the cable or adsl plugs into the router, and thats all the ISP sees.
here in new brunswick i have a fixed IP that is programed into the router (through your browser)

in ontario I had a dynamic IP but the router could handle that as well.

now the router has a function built in called DHCP
dynamic host configuration protocol. this assigns each computer connected to the router its own IP neat huh
my router can assign 256 addresses, in fact after I bought
mine and showed it to our IT guy, he bought one for the company serving about 25 people,
just plugged it into a network hub and away it went WAY more reliable that software
internet serving.

Now why a router over software sharing ? you don't need to have both computers turned on

so my suggestion based on what work for me, return the hub
and get a linksys befsr41 router, it has 4 ports, the manual is great, setup is laughable easy.
just checked circuitcitys web site they are $100us or $150can.
by the way there are other brands besides linksys and some
include print servers as well GO GET EM

[shartley]

Steveg,
Thanks for the suggestions. Good points.

I will not comment on them because they stand on their own.

Different needs require different solutions, and this is yet another great suggestion. None are wrong. It will be interesting to see WHAT XspyX actually does… LOL

[cphilip]

So amusing...Me? Two iMacs and a cross over cable...allow file sharing on each and poof! Two on one. Life is so simple with Apple.:p

Now if I just had a decent phone line so I could get more than 26400...:(

[Miscue]

Originally posted by steveg

Now why a router over software sharing ? you don't need to have both computers turned on

The other advantage of using a hardware router is speed... response times... etc. Not really an issue unless you have a somewhat large network... or perhaps if you're playing LAN games. Great thing about software solution: it's free.

Haven't played with the LinkSys routers... but I like the SMC's... they pretty much do same stuff as typical Cisco router... except not remotely programmable.

[Thordic]

Originally posted by cphilip
So amusing...Me? Two iMacs and a cross over cable...allow file sharing on each and poof! Two on one. Life is so simple with Apple.:p


Yeah, simple like Forrest Gump. It may run fast, but it isn't good for much.

(I used that analogy a few times when I worked at CompUSA and people asked about iMacs...)

They are good computers, hardware wise, their OS is ehhh, but looking at Microsoft OS's you cant say much, but the compatability issue is the major factor. True, you can get OS Clones for the Mac, but I've heard tons of complaints about their reliability and thier demand on system resources.

Oh well.. I won't complain about Macs any more today :)

(Before anyone asks, yes, I did own one for a while. Then I sold it when I realized I hated it :))

[cphilip]

Good one Thordic. But I will say that they are great little Surfers and Homework thingies though. And so easy to link together and net work. Nothing but a cross over cable needed.

No... I don't use one at work though. I work with Microsoft OS's there always have. Also you need to look agian at the OS lately. Not X but 9.2 and now X.1. You might change your mind a little. And see how much sofware Microsoft is making for Mac OS. Almost 15% of thier business last I heard.

However I do need to tell you my Wife just got in a Power Mac G4 with the dual processors in last Friday. Let me tell you that will kick your butt big time. You ought to look at one of them. Her first ever Mac product and she is loving it. It's awesome. Trust me.

[Thordic]

yeah, I've used the Duel G4's before, I know they are nice hardware.

As for the iMac I owned, it was OS10, I think? maybe OS9.

But in any case, 15% is still a very low level for any sort of compatability. It means you are incompatable with 85% of the world :)

I knew a guy who was about as much of a die-hard Mac addict as you could get, he owned a business that involved digital video editing and that sort of stuff, and used macs exclusively for that work.

But besides the graphics stuff, he ran his business off PCs because he needed to be able to easily interact with other companies and clients.

[cphilip]

I didn't say "compatable" on the 15%. I said that was the market share they make for Apple stuff. MS Word for Apple being the main one. And there is no problem interfacing with any other system that I have ever run into. Over 20% of our users here at Clemson Use Macs. All oour graphics arts gusy do. A lot of academia started adn still swears by them. Now mind you I am not a Mac guy but I am aware theya re here to stay. And we all talk and share stuff. In fact some of our servers are Macs. Al of use Unix and same thing. We all talk. Maybe not some kinds of software acalable but if I send you a word, excel, power point or whatever that was made on a Mac you would never know it. And if I send you an email on one you would never know it either. Incompatable? Not any more.

[Miscue]

OS X is sweet. I'd love to have a Mac if I had the money for it.

[XspyX]

Hey, Got the internet back up on one computer. We took back all the networking stuff and got out $$$ back. The mother was quite angry with me so she trashed the idea.

BUT! I have a new idea...

Right now we have the cable modem hooked to the Dell. There is Cat-5 coming from the modem to the comp. My idea is simply to run cat-5 into my room and leave the other end next to the box. Then, when I want to use the net, i just unplug the dell and hook up mine.

What I need to know is, how do I configure my computer so I can use the cable internet?

I would only need the net in my room during the night anyway, thats why its not a problem to just switch the cat-5 over manually.

So, would this work?

Oh, thanks for all the info but most of it was just TOO much. I learned some stuff though.

One system has 98SE and the other has 98FE. The dell is 933mhz and mine is 500mhz. 192 megs of ram each. Both have the ethernet cards.

[Tunaman]

Buy the linksys router. It is excellent. I have 2 computers setup with it right now. Let me know if you need specific help. I am an ace with the Linksys routers also. And you will have to reset the power on the cable modem each time you switch computers.

[joeyjoe367]

From my understanding, In order to share a Cable Internet connection you need to do 2 things:

1. Buy an Extra IP adress for each extra computer

2. Buy a Router, not a HUB

If i'm wrong about this, someone tell me How.

[XspyX]

Well, considering only one computer would be using the internet at a time, I don't see why you would need another IP. I just unplug the computer currently on and plug myslef into the box. So I could use the same IP. I just need to know how to set it up so it would work. Like the settings and numbers and stuff like that...???

[steveg]

joey, the idea of a router is that you only need the one
IP address that your ISP assigns you.
the router then handles all the information going to
and from the ISP from each computer connected to it.
the router that i have, linksys befsr11 allows up to
253 coumpters to share that one IP address

xspyx do you have the paperwork that came with your cable
hookup ? if so it should have an explaination of how to
configure your computer.

otherwise go to the computer with the internet connection

doubleclick my computer
doubleclick control panel
doubleclick network
click on the configuration tab
click on tcp/ip (in the white installed components box)
click on the properties button
you now have 7 tabs. write down what is in the
ip adress,wins config,gateway and dns config tabs
copy this information exactly into your computer.

next back to control panel
doubleclick internet options
click the connections tab
check the "never dial a connection"
click on lan settings (same tab)
finally check "automatically detect settings"
click ok
your done (we hope)

finally did i mention that a router is a great way to do
this;)

[XspyX]

When I go into my computer, i don't have a network icon or button.

[fenris69]

your 'network' isnt in My Computer. Its in 'Control Panel' ...which can be found in my computer :)

are you using static ip's? if so follow the above instr. er...no nm follow this.

ControlPAnel->Network->find tcp/ip for your ethernet adapter(realtek, linksys, dlink etc), highlight and click 'properties' below->write down info as he said.

course if you use dhcp ie. most @home services then dont worry bout it...just hookup restart comp and you should be good. remember to run inetwiz or change your 'internet options' in your control panel to use a 'local are network' or LAN...hmmm actually i dunno what ip that would grab...oh and make sure they dont have your MAC address linked to whatever ip your using if its a static...cause then you cant switch nics. hope this is clear enough. :)

[fenris69]

heres another thought. what cable package do you have? you may be entitled to more than one ip anyway. if so then all youd need to do is call em, activate the ip, and you could use a hub. better 50 bucks on that then a router.

[steveg]

oops forgot to say doubleclick control panel after
my computer i've edited my post sorry