Obsolete?

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

I hear how people are saying that Mags have an obsolete design. I hear how people are saying that Pumps and stock class markers are obsolete. I hear people say that brass eagle markers are obsolete.

I've played with all these types of markers and they seem to work perfectly fine and can compete well with other higher end markers. Everyone I hear that sais a marker is obsolete probably has no clue what they are talking about. From what i tend to see it's because they don't know how to use the marker or it's because they stink at the game and blame it on the marker.

Brass Eagle Markers - I started paintball with one of their markers and it never let me down, except when i left it sitting in the closet for a few years with old paint on it wearing down all the orings and stuff like that. (I was new to the game i didnt know any better). I was also amazingly impressed by the Talon! it shot accurately and i could get a good 25-30 shots off 1 12gram! I don't know how brass eagle got such a bad reputation, i keep on hearing stories of how they break down too easily and other things like that...but if you are just beginning to play the sport, i wouldn't expect you to know how to maintain your marker.

Pumps - well, many of the new players that are getting into the sport dont really like to aim. They just shower a bunker with paintballs and re-aim according to where their paintballs go (which isn't that bad of a strategy). With pumps it's kinda different. You actually need to AIM!(which i know some people don't like to do) Competing against modern markers is quite difficult with a pump marker but these guns can still kick the orings outa other guns!

Stock Class - Used by the more experianced players. I have not seen a stock class marker in the hands of a beginner. The people that wield stock class markers are either amazingly skilled or amazingly poor...or both. Stock class markers are seen to be obsolete to some players because they can only hold around 10-20 paintballs at a time. But with the right player behind the gun, it can do a lot of damage.

Mags - What was the rumor about mags? It chops too much??? Well tell me this, have you ever seen a marker not chop a paintball? cockers, angels, timmys, bushys, mags, spyders, even pumps. I've seen em all chop paintballs. What was the other rumor? mags don't get enough range? ...whoever made that rumor is a complete dumbdonkey.

Ok...i think i overexplained a lot of things here so lemme just get to the point...if there is one

No design is obsolete! They all have their ups and downs. Point Zero pumps, mags, matrixes, cockers, etc. They all get the job done.

[ZapTheMad]

One of my buddies has an old stinkray. Still plays with it every time we go. And to my suprise, it still works every time too! I've been trying to sell him one of my suped up spyders for some time. He's just happy with what he's got even tho it's a fugly beat up monster.

Me on the other hand, loves all the bells, toys, and whistles. To each his own!

[blakdragon21]

YOu can live in your dream world all you want but those guns are obsolet compared to the high end electics of today, viks, timmies, angels. The speed of the guns you listed above can't match the speeds of high end electros there fore they are not even worth using. I used to be a mag man, classic, then x-valved, then emag, then x-mag, they do not compare to my viking or timmy in speed. THe vik and timmy are just as accurate and don't suck air. you can play blind man all you want but the shepard has shown this sheep the righteous way out of the depths of agd hell.

[ZapTheMad]

What about little johnny down the street that saved up for a year worth of mowing lawns just to buy a spyder and a 47ci tank to upgrade from that talon he got at walmart for his birthday from his mommy that's on welfare, is he obsolete too?

[gc82000]

YOu can live in your dream world all you want but those guns are obsolet compared to the high end electics of today, viks, timmies, angels. The speed of the guns you listed above can't match the speeds of high end electros there fore they are not even worth using.

Blakdragon21 you are a royal Dumba$$. I challenge you to show me why speed is so great and a must have in every gun. If I remember correctly the Phantom pump was the most accurate gun of its time, and still is an extremely accurate gun to this date. I don't know about you but I would give a guy more props if he shot someone out with his last ball then if he sprayed the entire field and shot more people.
Yes I give you that speed is impressive, but the person behind the gun is the true deadly weapon.

[warbeak2099]

A high rof does not make a gun better than another gun. Have you ever seen those stock class teams take on electros? Notice how they win a lot? That's called skill. I think everyone is forgetting that the player makes the gun not the other way around. Everytime I hear someone say that a certain gun won't be able to compete with other guns because it's slower, I cringe. First of all the guns aren't competing, the players are. Second if you use a little thing called strategy (and yes I'm still talking about speedball here), you can take on any opponent. You just have to adjust your strategy for different opponents. Going up against a guy who likes to spew out paint? Bide your time. Pop out and go back in bunkers real quick. Make him frusterated. Try to distract him while your other teamates move to bunker him. Now hold on a minute, there's something wrong with that strategy right? You didn't shoot at all and your teamates really didn't need to shoot that fast when they bunkered him! Wow, that's strange isn't it? People who say a gun is only good because it's fast are retarded and don't deserve the slightest ounce of respect. Obviously they're either not very good or just incredibly arrogant. Screw them, we don't need them in our sport.

[RRfireblade]

There's really no such thing as "obsolete" in the sport of paintball.The marker doesn't make a big enough difference in the outcome of a game for that to be the case.As long as it's legal and functions reliably,you ultimately have the final word on the outcome of the game.

Now,does the Marker allow you to perform at your maximum level,is an entirely different question and one only you can answer.That is where the distinction between guns really lies.

[Pand0ra]

warbeak2099, you obviously don't play at a high level. ROF is nowaday one of the most important thing to have, with the reliablility of a marker which don't break paint.

Let's take a few examples:
Sweet spoting. The higher the ROF, the better. The more paint you put in the air, the more chance you have to hit your opponents. This is THE moment when you must have a very high ROF.

Snapshoot. Ok the guy with the stock class is accurate. Good. I'm too, but I can shot 3-4 balls in 1/4s, when he can only shoot one. Numbers are on my side, I've way more chance to hit him than he does.

Now let's see those killer moves. My back players shoot continuously at 15bps, locking efficiently the whole field. Same thing for the front players.
The guys in front of us can only do one thing: stay behind their bunker. They've got too much pressure on them to do anything on the field, and can't do the same thing with their stock marker. We've also the tactic, and know how to move and how do bunker them... End of the game in less than a minute, if we take our time.

Your point of view was valid a few years ago, but is obsolete now.
Look how the fields in the NPPL, PSP or Millennium are designed. Games are more and more agressives, with lot of paint in the air.
If you want to win, you need a fast marker.
The only marker not obsolete by AGD is the Xmag, but only if you've got the latest software. I don't use mine anymore for this reason, and bought a Shocktech timmy.

Peace, @++

[zacbot]

i dont see how you guys can argue which style of paintball is better..spray and pray and stock class are completely different styles of play

[RRfireblade]

The difference between 'obsolete' and 'state of the art' as it pertains to internet paintball is about 2 balls a second. ;)

In the real world of paintball the difference is about 2 intelligent 'thoughts' a second.

:)

[bryceeden]

My whole team uses Mecs mostly mags and cockers. We compeat against Timmies, E-cockers, and Angels all the time, and guess what we have been compleatly undefeated in three years. As far as controling the whole field goes it can't be done unless you are up on bodys and at that point a mec is just as effective, if I have a 20bps stream on my bunker I'll shoot out the other side, if they put another guy on that side I'll shoot higher or lower than he is shooting, and because they have two on me they have none on one of my team mates who has just moved up because they left him with noone shooting and usually noone watching him. As for laning 8-13bps will get them out just as well as 20bps if the shoother knows how to lead a target and aim. At the end of the day my team has always won(its hard not to when you never lose a game) and we actually make a profet from the prize money because we haven't used much paint.

On the other side I use a Phantom SC for the practice some times against weaker teams, and I can easily beat the electros because I have such a low profile and am a billion times more accurate than most of them.

Yes, it is fun to go out and just spray paint, but it is ALL the player not the gun.

[p8nt_junkie]

I think that the while the guns that are being compared are different, it doesn't make one type or the other obsolete. They are used in different styles of play. In my experience I really only see pumps and old mags at the rec ball fields around here. And I see all of the high end paintslingers at the speedball fields. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just a different style of playing. I agree that the player makes the gun, but the type of field and type of play suggest the type of marker to carry with you. On rare occasion I have seen some pumps at the speedball field, and they do ok. But generally it is some guy that is a little older and more experienced. You just don't give a pump to a 13 tr. old and say "cover me I'm going to bunker that guy in my mirror". That's insane (would be cool to see the look on his face though)! No guns are obsolete BECAUSE no styles of play are obsolete!

[athomas]

No marker is obsolete as long as it works. Making comparisons against various markers is based on style of play not on whether the marker is still usefull. Saying a stock class pump is obsolete because it can't keep up to an electro semi is not correct. What would happen if you showed up to a stock class tourny with an electro semi. The electro semi would be worthless.

In woods ball on a large field, a pump can be very fun. It also forces you to use your skills. I find that many of us, myself included, rely too much on firepower and lose the finer points of skill. I have to take a step backwards every now and then and pick up my trusty pump and go play. I find my skill level increases whenever I do that.

Now, if I was going to the speedball field, I want firepower. I drop the pump and pick up my emag. Its a different field of play.

[spadge67]

I think its a dumb discussion, its opened a can of worms that very very VERY tired of bieng opened. Its the same old talk about electros vs non, or semi vs pump, or cheap vs expensive. WHO CARES!!!!!


i love b-eagle's, theyre damn industrictible. gotta love a marker that you can throw 80 feet into the air, skip it across gravel, throw in mud, pick it up, get dirt outta the asa and barrel, air it up, and shoot. i love it

[Target Practice]

Very few markers are technically "obsolete". MW defines obsolete as "no longer in use or no longer useful, of a kind or style no longer current". There are very few markers that are truely "no longer in use". As being "a style no longer current", you will find a little more, but they're still building Talons, Tippys, and Spyders. As for being "no longer useful"...anybody who gets painted by a $30 dollar Talon is just as out as a one who gets tagged by a $1300 X-Mag.

[kscullin]

A lot of people think BE markers break easily because many of them have plastic bodies without ever trying one (it's plastic, it must break easily). I've even heard of people saying that BE guns have plastic internals! Some people do have bad experiences, but any company can make a lemon, and BE markets so many more markers than just about anybody else that they're bound to get more lemons.

One of the best ones I've heard is about the Raptors and Genesis series - "They're pieces of crap because they're aluminum - get a Spyder". Isn't that classic?

They have had some quality control issues with the plastic on the newer "clear" models (Talon ghost, TS Crystal, Stingray II Ice) and the Blade, but they've since upgraded the plastic and it's better now (though still not as good as the black Zytel - don't know why they went away from that). They fail to consider that many combat capable weapons also have platstic bodies that are nearly indestructible (e.g. M-16, Glock).

Many newer players hear this point of view, and just decide that it must be true.

I agree, there are no obsolete markers, just lousy players. If it shoots paint at above 250 fps with reasonable accuracy, it can be used effectively. My nephew was DEADLY with his Talon in the woods - I watched him bunker 2 guys with Spyders in one move once (too bad we couldn't get him to keep his mask on :( ).

[Torbo]

why is it a big deal? who cares what people think of your marker of choice? obsolete or not, who cares? if it works for you, then what does it matter?

edit: i realized this isnt always true. For example say im playing some rec ball. Ive got a completely random team. I shoot a timmy, and i play front/snake. Theres a guy on my team shooting a classic mag.
Do i: A. Tell him to play over top of me while iu go up the snake?
or B. have him go up, while i play back?

anyone with common sence is gonna say b. Its a ramdom team, meaning that i probably wont have the teammwork and communication that a regular team would have. His classic mag isnt going to do much to keep their backs from pounding me in the snake. Its also not gonna do a whole lot to keep their fronts from coming up the tape on me. With the speed of a faster gun, even if he isnt communicating well, he could at least lock down some of their bunkers.

Maybe that doesnt make sense to you, but thats about how it works.

[blakdragon21]

gc82000 lol, I am a dumba$$??? hahahah you must be blind and retarded to think that a person with a pump could take a person with a timmy of the same skill level. OF courese it could happen but more times the timmy would win. I think you are just mad cause you probalby have a talon or pump and always get bunkered and bonus balled and go home crying.

[kscullin]

Blackdragon - that's why they invented this cool new concept called teamwork. You may have heard of it.

You are correct, a player with a pump is not going to win a toe-to-toe hosefest against an electro. This means the pump player has to play smarter than the guy who is dependant on his firepower - if he tries to play the same game as the electro, he's going to get his head handed to him. Effective communication, effective use of cover fire from his teammates and proper movement techniques are what are going to let him win.

[blakdragon21]

yeah exactly but what does teamwork have to do with the gun?????? We are talking about guns obsolete not stratageies, your parents should have made you obsolete the day before you were born.

[shartley]

Some people don’t understand the concept of “the right tool for the job”. The same is true with playing, playing styles, and the markers you choose to use.

The only marker that is obsolete is the one that does not shoot paintballs any more. Other than that, you choose the speed and ability of the marker in accordance with your skill level and the style of play you want to engage in.

[bunkermaster10]

Well nothin is obsolete cause its all for different skill levels. Tourny ballers like myself can't use talons and most mech markers cause we need the most BPS we can get. So for tourny ballers I guess most of the markers you listed are obsolete, but Its all about what skill level you are at.

[TheTramp]

.... your parents should have made you obsolete the day before you were born.


And your sad flaming just made you obsolete. :rolleyes:

[kscullin]

The strategies you employ, as a player and as a team member, have everything to do with your ability to compete in a given arena with the gun of your choice. A pump is not a good choice of marker for getting in a face-to-face gunfight with an electro - in that case, it is "obsolete" (using the term loosely). However, combined with the right strategies and tactics, the pump gun is no longer "obsolete", even against electros.

[Target Practice]

gc82000 lol, I am a dumba$$???...blind and retarded... person.... OF courese [sic]...I...always get bunkered and bonus balled and go home crying.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
:rolleyes:

[coolcatpete]

Blakdragon21 you are a royal Dumba$$. I challenge you to show me why speed is so great and a must have in every gun. If I remember correctly the Phantom pump was the most accurate gun of its time, and still is an extremely accurate gun to this date. I don't know about you but I would give a guy more props if he shot someone out with his last ball then if he sprayed the entire field and shot more people.
Yes I give you that speed is impressive, but the person behind the gun is the true deadly weapon.
How is it so accurate when accuracy is paint to barrel match.
Pete

[shivors]

You people are hilarious. Another reason NOT to play speed ball.

[AGDlover]

hey re re it depends on preasure too

[blakdragon21]

you can say whatever you want but if I was going to say here I will give you this phantom pump or this 2k2 timmy, you know you would take the timmy over the pump.

[shartley]

you can say whatever you want but if I was going to say here I will give you this phantom pump or this 2k2 timmy, you know you would take the timmy over the pump.
You can think what whatever you want, but if you were to offer me a phantom pump or a 2k2 timmy... I would take the phantom.

Not everyone looks at paintball like you do. Not everyone plays the same way you do. Not every game format used in paintball is the same.

There is room for all types of markers, and all styles of play. And no one style is "better" or takes "more skill" than any other... they all take slightly different skills. And no one style of play has "better" paintball players than any other. The style of play does not dictate the overall ability and skill of a player by virtue of playing that style of game.

You know what I wish was obsolete? Narrow minds and conceptions.

[Head knight of Ni]

"lol, I am a dumba$$???...blind and retarded... person.... OF courese [sic]...I...always get bunkered and bonus balled and go home crying."

"I couldn't have said it better myself."

You're getting too witty.

On the gun debate a pump can easily win against a good burst. You see those high priced electro's shoot so often that they accumulate more debris in the barrel. Which means wingers. Trust me I played with a mag only capable of 1 BPS and did better than ever against the electro's. :eek: <- :rolleyes:

[shivors]

you can say whatever you want but if I was going to say here I will give you this phantom pump or this 2k2 timmy, you know you would take the timmy over the pump.

OMFG...man you really need to attend Analogy 101.

Even if you were desperate for a Phantom you would still take the timmy to sell... <sigh>

[Brophog]

You know what I wish was obsolete? Narrow minds and conceptions.


Those two things seem to be back in style these days..........

[bryceeden]

you can say whatever you want but if I was going to say here I will give you this phantom pump or this 2k2 timmy, you know you would take the timmy over the pump.

I would take the Phantom. There are some obsoleat markers like the Splat Master and 3357, but I have owned every kind of marker you can name and I prefer my RTP to all of them(My Phantom is a close second) and yes, I am a hard core tourney player who's whole team has passed on electros and still wins.

[kscullin]

If you're offering, I could use a Phantom. Preferrably stock class - I need a good stock marker.

I wouldn't take the Timmy anyway - I like an open sight rail (you can sight down a Phantom's feed tube just fine) and I don't like E-markers. Too much stuff can go wrong with them that can't with a mechanical, speaking from 13 years experience as an electronic tech. Nothing wrong with a Timmy (that isn't wrong with any E-marker), but they're too alergic to percussion, humidity, dead batteries, bad connections, etc. High rate of fire just isn't that important to me.

Oh, and maybe it's just me Shivors, but I don't buy stuff just to sell it - I buy it to use it. If I don't need it, I don't get it.

[eddie885221]

i remember at the end of the day a few weeks ago everybody was almost out of air and paint, my friend william challenged my friend joe to a game 1v1, so william and joe start and william runs ot of air after 2 shots, joe had an amg and william had a few swollen paintballs that were rained on the day before, gues wuut, william beat him to the ground, the gun has nuthin to do with it if u know how to play

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

There are some obsoleat markers like the Splat Master.
How is the splatmaster obsolete? I still use my splatmaster and it works great! I like the feeding system, you don't need to dump paintballs anywhere, just stick the entire tube in the gun.

maybe it's obsolete to you cause you can't use it

[Target Practice]

Hey, the more outdated it is, chances are you have to be all the more skilled to use 'em.

[Rooster]

Not everyone plays in the cheater-board leagues. When PSP and NPPL cleans out their own house, they can try to tell the rest of us whats obsolete.

[c0lby j]

It really depends on what type of paintball is being played. For rec ball a pump and brass eagle non-electronic guns will work fine. Having an angel, timmy, shocker in woods play is just...welll unneccessary. As for Speedball/Tourney Play an electronic marker or high performance mechanical gun does have its advantage. If you have a 1vs1 speedball game where an Angel vs. a Pump Gun, the angel does have great advantages over the pump gun player. But as for tournaments, i have 2 electro guns (angels) and 3 non electros (cockers) we do very well with what we got. Its all about how you play, and if your comfortable with your gun.

[dwab3000]

well, i havent read all the posts, just some that disgust me


now we all say its the player not the marker...

so when my mag was awy, and my bko was down for a little while, and i used a rental, a 98, with stock evrything, and my hpa, i realized, that that statement would be truer if every marker shot the same, different rof, but same accuracy

go out and play with a stock 98 on a windy day, youll notice its no where as accurate as say my mag with a boomy or my bko with say a freak

now i know that no guns accurate on a winday day, but try it with like a 5in or so barrel,

i want you to try this, i gaurentee that you are not gonna be playing the same, you have to take it up a notch, if your back, you have to play front, if your front, you have to be careful


just my rant and rave

[puckmaster]

IT IS ALL PERSONAL PREFRANCE!!!!!
Some people like speedball, some like woods ball(I HATE woodsball, but thats me.)
Some people like pumps, some like semi-auto(i HATE expensive pumps, but again, thats just me.)
Some like Mech., others like electro(I LOVE electro, but guess what, its just me.)

No One can tell you whats better. Its all about what you like. There might be better technologies out, but that doesnt make a mag, or any other gun, obsolete.

And when people say, its the player, and not the marker, i just have to shake my head. If You play ball against another player equily matched with you, whats gonna make the deciding difference? Your gear. If you can get that extra ball out, it could all be over. if you could feed 1 ball faster, he would just run into your stream. Now, there are some cases in which the equipment doesnt matter at all. say Naughty Dogs vs. a pickup team with begginers. Say they switch guns. NDs have pumps and 98's and the begginers have the timmys. Who will win?
So, i think a better way to say it would be its not the gun or equipment, its how well the player uses the equipment.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

comparing pumps and semi-automatic markers isn't all that great of a comparison. In the hands of a good player a pump can do a lot of damage. Sure it's a lot harder but that's what makes it so fun, is that you actually have to aim and make your shots count, instead of letting paintballs hail on a bunker.

[puckmaster]

It depends on how good your opponent is, and what gun they use. you wonthave time to "make your shot count" when you have 2 or 3 guys railing 16 bps on your bunker.

[shartley]

It depends on how good your opponent is, and what gun they use. you wonthave time to "make your shot count" when you have 2 or 3 guys railing 16 bps on your bunker.
Oh… so now it is ONE guy with a pump marker against 3 guys all shooting at him with 16BPS markers? ;)

[puckmaster]

Oh… so now it is ONE guy with a pump marker against 3 guys all shooting at him with 16BPS markers? ;)

Yep, that what i meant. If people can work over people with pumps, they should be able to do it against three people. ;)



That was sarcasm. I think you know what i meant tho. even if the teams are 5 on 5 or 10 man or 1 on 1. It will be VERY difficult for the pump players to "make there shots count" when ONE player is railing 15 bps at them.

[shartley]

Yep, that what i meant. If people can work over people with pumps, they should be able to do it against three people. ;)



That was sarcasm. I think you know what i meant tho. even if the teams are 5 on 5 or 10 man or 1 on 1. It will be VERY difficult for the pump players to "make there shots count" when ONE player is railing 15 bps at them.
Yes, I fully understand what you are talking about.

But I pose this question…. Can’t you pin down someone with only a couple BPS? Does it take 15 bps to keep someone’s head behind a bunker so others can come up from other angles and eliminate them?

My point is that being difficult is not being impossible. All things are NOT equal on the paintball field, and what marker a person uses is only one aspect of that. And sometimes having a limited BPS rate and even limited ammo can make a person play tighter and smarter than if they had the opposite. I have seen far too many people rely on their marker and end up playing poorly.

Now… this does not apply to everyone. But if people are going to look at things realistically, you have to factor in all sorts of real situations and experiences. What makes a team win a tournament is not simply what marker they are using, but the skills they have using it. That is why the team with the fastest “capable” markers don’t always win.

Yes, given that things are equal… i.e. overall skills and experience… having a faster shooting marker will give you an advantage (in most paintball games, but not all). This is also true with auto racing. But that does not mean you WILL win. And the moment you underestimate that new player, the guy with the pump, etc. you leave yourself open for a rude awakening. LIFE and paintball games, don’t always play out like the numbers tell us it should, nor how it seems it should on a paintball forum. ;)

[Orion33]

tippmanns are the guns to start out with cause u can hurl them at walls and submerge them under mud and nothing will be wrong with it...

not form person experiences..but from friends who own brass eagle stuff..ive learned to stay away from them

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

but why would you want to hurl a gun at a wall? why would you want to submerge your gun in mud?...and when on earth would a person on the field have to hurl their gun at a wall?

Many guns can survive being chucked at a wall (yes, even brass eagle markers)....but here is another question, why would you do that to your marker?

[puckmaster]

Yes, I fully understand what you are talking about.

1. But I pose this question…. Can’t you pin down someone with only a couple BPS? Does it take 15 bps to keep someone’s head behind a bunker so others can come up from other angles and eliminate them?

2. My point is that being difficult is not being impossible. All things are NOT equal on the paintball field, and what marker a person uses is only one aspect of that. And sometimes having a limited BPS rate and even limited ammo can make a person play tighter and smarter than if they had the opposite. I have seen far too many people rely on their marker and end up playing poorly.

3. Now… this does not apply to everyone. But if people are going to look at things realistically, you have to factor in all sorts of real situations and experiences. What makes a team win a tournament is not simply what marker they are using, but the skills they have using it. That is why the team with the fastest “capable” markers don’t always win.

4. Yes, given that things are equal… i.e. overall skills and experience… having a faster shooting marker will give you an advantage (in most paintball games, but not all). This is also true with auto racing. But that does not mean you WILL win. And the moment you underestimate that new player, the guy with the pump, etc. you leave yourself open for a rude awakening. LIFE and paintball games, don’t always play out like the numbers tell us it should, nor how it seems it should on a paintball forum. ;)
1. Yes, i totaly think that anyone can a player down for a second or two with a pump. Its just that it would be VERY difficult for you to get out and get that shot reletivly close to the other guy when hes dumping paint. And no, it doenst take 15 bps to keep someone down, i just thru out that number.

2. Yes, it is possible. Everything is possible, but it would be very very very difficult to pull it off. And ya, one of my points are that markers ARE a factor, but it cant do it all, just like you said.

3. Again, i agree.

4. I think i agree with that.

But all i mean to say or prove is that the gun can make a difference in some situations.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

...i think it's the person behind the trigger. If the person with that super expensive $1300 toy has no clue how to use it and just shoots the bunker to make that annoying clanging noise to try to scare the persond behind the bunker,

well lets just say that will keep newbies down but for the experianced players they will take that opportunity to cap you right in the face. It only takes one shot

[Got_Paint]

I jumped in on this late

1st off heck, even paint on your finger is not obsolete

Someone opened up a big pet peeve of mine. Saying that "pumps are good for recball but for more skilled players you need a higher end gun" Not the persons exact words (I am too lazy and tired to look back)

I hate the idea now that you aren't a serious paintballer or aren't competive unless you own an "uber bl$ng Bl$nG angel" or play tourney's. If I could only play with one gun for the rest of my life the phantom or the timmy, I would take the phantom HANDS DOWN. I enjoy a challenge. Which brings me to a another point.

Am I the only one who thinks that someone with a pump is a far more competive person on the field? Their willing to go to the ends of the earth to get that elimanation bunkering, moving and AIMING. To me that is far more competive than semi play.

As to keeping someone down with only about 5 shots. I don't see why can't keep someone down with one shot. I mean if you actually try to aim you should be able to hit them first shot.

Now though if you took two equally experienced players with the same skill, one with a phantom and the other with a timmy. The timmy would most likely win.

Sorry for the ranting big pet peeve, and yes I am jaded most tourny play.

[magmonkey]

pumps are not obsolete, they are a useful tool to learn (and keep in practice)
alot of the finer points of playing paintball.

I have an emag, a micro retrovalve, two dc vikings,a angel, a few cockers and a pile of other high end guns and this season they are all collecting dust and I have used my vsc phantom or my pump mini mag every weekend so far.
this does several things for me.

#1 I played for THREE weeks on less than it would have cost me for one day of play with my other markers, this is very important seeing how I am getting married in three months and money is getting tight but I still need to keep in practice.

#2 when you have only 10 shots until you have to reload you learn (or relearn) how to aim and the importance of picking your targets

#3 it teachs you how to get VERY agressive in your field movement, you have less gear, less weight, you can move faster and it is just plain fun to blow the head off of some high end toting chump who thinks you are a "STUPID NOOB" for shooting a "beginer" gun.

#4 it is fun to go to a new field in jeans and a t shirt and get treated like you know absolutly nothing about the game.

[puckmaster]

I jumped in on this late

1st off heck, even paint on your finger is not obsolete

1. Someone opened up a big pet peeve of mine. Saying that "pumps are good for recball but for more skilled players you need a higher end gun" Not the persons exact words (I am too lazy and tired to look back)

2. I hate the idea now that you aren't a serious paintballer or aren't competive unless you own an "uber bl$ng Bl$nG angel" or play tourney's. If I could only play with one gun for the rest of my life the phantom or the timmy, I would take the phantom HANDS DOWN. I enjoy a challenge. Which brings me to a another point.

3. Am I the only one who thinks that someone with a pump is a far more competive person on the field? Their willing to go to the ends of the earth to get that elimanation bunkering, moving and AIMING. To me that is far more competive than semi play.

4. As to keeping someone down with only about 5 shots. I don't see why can't keep someone down with one shot. I mean if you actually try to aim you should be able to hit them first shot.

5. Now though if you took two equally experienced players with the same skill, one with a phantom and the other with a timmy. The timmy would most likely win.

Sorry for the ranting big pet peeve, and yes I am jaded most tourny play.

1. Ya, that is a bunch of crap. The high end gun will make you LOOK better in recball if you are getting ready for a game or in the staging area. There are too many little 11 year old jackasses at the field i work at that wear there headbands/du rags, where the jerseys that my team sold them, and have the dm4s, or aliases that they "worked for". Whenever new people come in, they say they dont want to play against them, because there so good, even tho no games have been played yet.

2. Same type of kids say that. You arnt a bad *** player unless you play tourneys or shoot timmys or angels. It just pisses me off. A true baller is the player that can play game after game, all day, with any gun. that player can loose all the games that day, but the important part is, he keeps playing. He doenst care about winning or losing, or glory, He just comes in at 10 am, and leaves at 10 pm, playing ball the whole time. And personaly, i'd take the timmy over the phantom, only because i play more tournys and practices than rec.

3. A person with a pump CAN be more competetive, but its not always so.

4. If you always have a little stream going after him, then if he tries to run, he might just run right thru it, where as if your waiting for him to come up, he coulel come out other angles, or make a quick move where you woulndt have time to "re-setup". If its one on one, then might be possible.

5. Yep, i agree with you there.

as i said before, its not the gun, its how there person uses the gun.

[bryceeden]

OMFG...man you really need to attend Analogy 101.

Even if you were desperate for a Phantom you would still take the timmy to sell... <sigh>


Your diging. If you plan to sell it it isn't pertinate to this debate. For playing I would take the phantom.

[Sprite]

Funny how this seems to pop up every time, the debate will never cease...

I own both a Stock Class Phantom, A Sniper 02 and a Retro valve Mag and I enjoy playing with my pump guns more than with the mag just for the simple fact that it is a totally unique playing style.

Naturally you don't go head to head against someone with a higher rate of fire. Having a lower rate makes you think different, more of on the spot not spray and pray. Yeah you can have your higher end marker shoot X amount bps but it doesn't matter, It takes only one shot, ONE to eliminate you from the game. I play speed ball with my Phantom and I can hold my own and keep in mind I'm playing stock against guys with Semi's. Yes teamwork plays a role but also a guy with a pump is usually thought of as an easy target by most ppl. Not saying that I'm all that good but pump players are easily underestimated.

Like stated before, No gun is really obsolete unless it doesn't shoot paint. It all comes down to the style of play and the uniqueness of the player.

Not all of us are speedball players. Not all of us have the same style of play. We don't all think the same. I dare you to pick up a pump gun and go up against a bunch of guys with semi's. A rude awakening you will have... Never knock it till you try it...