Time to hit Tippmans

[PaintHurler5]

I just want to know what ya'll think of tippmanns, 2 people on my new league team have '98 customs and another has an a-5. The guy with an a-5 just sprays paint like mad, the two with '98s do well, but i just don't like tippmanns and im scared they may not do as well as my mag and the last guy's cocker, i just want to hear what everyone thinks about tippmanns vs mags/cockers in tourney/league play. Thanks everyone!

[teufelhunden]

Too slow, and long in the bad way.

[Thermus]

Too slow, and long in the bad way.



I agree...

[Konigballer]

I agree...rock solid reliability is great but is more of a plus for beginers who either dont know or dont like to do maintenance on their guns.

[lord1234]

tippmans do not belong on a tourney field....the only team that uses them who is any good is tippman effect...and thats factory team....their tippmans probably have some crazy shiz done to them.

[splat15k]

I personally own a model 98, but I don't use it anymore (I bought a mag) because of the following reasons:

1. extremely long (uncomfy and larger target)
2. rather loud (the sound of the bolt smacking the valve drove me insane)
3. it's a pain to field strip after every game
4. it's ugly

that's about it.

[booyah]

just a heads up on the too long/too slow argument..

a tuned tippman will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger, with the ebolt, its as capable as any other emarker.

as far as length, i beleive its 1.5 inches longer than an angel LCD... and we all know how those arent tourny guns.. :rolleyes:

its the player not the gun, a tippmann well setup will carry you as far as your game will...

[sneakyhacker420]

im not a fan of tippmans either, but the gun is only 10% of your skill level, if not less than that

the rest is all the player


and just a little FYI about tippmann effect, and bad company as well, the factories pay big bucks for them to use the lower end guns in pro tournaments

[SCpoloRicker]

I still have my Tippman Model 98 from 1996.

Three valves, two broken by me, all replaced free. :D

Took it out for the first time in three years last weekend. Lube, air, and lo and behold banging noises and stuff coming out the front.

Perfect backup.

Tournament play, however, may benefit from the smaller size, better consistency, and higher ROF of high end electro (or AGD :cool: ) markers.

Oh yeah, the mag/cocker debate has been settled. Cocker elves do great work but slack off all the time. AGD gnomes just plain work.

[jwalker87]

tippman's are just too damn long. where the ball enters the breech is simply too far forward; slap on anything more than a 10" barrel and you've practically got a javelin. Good for the "rambo rule" perhaps, but one of the main reasons I got a mag was that the ball feed was so far back, so I could have a long (accurate) barrel while still having a short marker.

[Juicemaster]

i just recently bought a tunamag to replace my 98c. albeit the mag performs far better than my 98, i still think that it is a gun to be reckoned with. After i did a trigger job, put an All-American (boo smart parts) on, and ran HPA through it, the 98 was accurate as any other marker i've ever played with. It is very unbalanced, very long, and very loud. But still, i have also chopped about 8 balls in the year and a half that i have used it. In tournaments, i was scared ****less because the 98 is slow, and when people shoot about 15bps at my face, while i crank out about 6 or 7, i get very afraid.

All in all, the 98 is a great STARTING marker. It will perform for people who want to just screw around, or for the newb tourney player. It is not worthy of bashing on, so find another gun to hate.

[Orion33]

i think they are awesome..i dont find them slow...tippmanns = made for customizing...

they are too long, which is why i now use a mag, but they are great guns

[jwalker87]

tippman's aren't that great for customizing. Easy, yes. Cheap, no. Spyders are much more customization-friendly. With Tippman, to replace any of the internals you need the "official" Tippman products, which are outragously overpriced. With a Spyder, there are tons of aftermarket accessories from all sorts of manufacturers, making it much easier for you to make your marker exactly what you want it to be. If you guessed I'm partial to Spyders, you guessed right. I just don't like Tippmans in any way. Yes, they're built like tanks, but I take care of my markers, and everyone should, so you shouldn't have to worry about that.

[notcreative]

Tippmanns are great guns. Dont get caught up in the hype the better the gun the better the player people that say that are just Posers you can find them every where. But we you feel like that you need to help out your game you might want to invest in a new gun

[Thermus]

as far as length, i beleive its 1.5 inches longer than an angel LCD... and we all know how those arent tourny guns.. :rolleyes:



Keep in mind, thats with the stock 8 inch barrel. What did LCDs use stock? 14?

[logamus]

i saw a guy a few months back with an a-5 and the electronic trigger just laying waste to people. i was quite impressed. how they do stock i dont know, but with that e trigger they do pretty good.

[teufelhunden]

i think they are awesome..i dont find them slow...tippmanns = made for customizing...



ROFL!

Yeah, ok. If you want a custom gun, you buy a 'Cocker. End of story.

As for shooting as fast as you pull... yeah, so will everything else. My PGP will shoot as fast as I pump/pull... it's about the ease of pulling... duh. Way easier to put out 17-18 bps on my 'Cocker than on any Tippmann.

A-5 E-Grips have the WORST trigger feel in the world. Not to mention when you're at any decent ROF on an A-5 it's gonna kick like a Remington. Don't give me that garbage about "omg if it kicks too much for you then you're a wuss" because if you've ever shot a decent gun with little->no kick, you know damn well it's easier to put ball on ball with that than with some kicking blowback.

And SPolo, the cocker v mag is far from over. I can tell you straight away that my 'Cocker, as well as many others, will go faster than any E-Mag, even with the latest 3.2 software, as well as wayy more efficient, I can get just over a case with a 68.45 on my 'Cocker. Plus I can pinch paint, quite similiar to an LX and I have an ACE.

[hobbesTZ]

I think by length, they mean the distance betwixt the trigger frame and the foregrip.

Tippmans are made to be starter guns. It doesn't matter who you are, but a Tippman won't keep you in the game as consistenly as something that doesn't jolt like a cannon or shoot like ***.

[than205]

After years of using mags, I recently got to use one of the rentals at the field I work at. I'm impressed. I really think the 98 is just great fun.

As has been said before, it's about the player.

[dwab3000]

well

Not to mention when you're at any decent ROF on an A-5 it's gonna kick like a Remington

no not with a new valve...i have an a-5 that i tinker with, and i got a red vavle, and power tube...though the power tube was replaced, the valve i kept.

the valve made alot less recoil

then i threw a low pressure kit on there...and a nice barrel...did a couple trigger jobs...got new recievers, and took the black paint off oof it...my now dusted black a-5 is great...the trigger job was simple...want to argue with my a-5, i have tested so many things on it...oh yeah, did i mention i regged it up with a custom R/T, it can now out feed the cyclone...





may not be my main marker, but it sure as hell spray it new 240 hopper pretty fast, so fast i have to lower my input pressure from my tank and turn up my velocity by rear and regular...hmmm so as soon as my warp is hooked up on my a-5 and it will feed faster than my marker goes...or if i decide to go and get it centerfeeded and throw a halo on there...hmmm




And SPolo, the cocker v mag is far from over. I can tell you straight away that my 'Cocker, as well as many others, will go faster than any E-Mag, even with the latest 3.2 software, as well as wayy more efficient, I can get just over a case with a 68.45 on my 'Cocker. Plus I can pinch paint, quite similiar to an LX and I have an ACE.

hmmm so your saying just because your cocker goes as fast and faster, that means you can get that much paint off in that time...my freind you are mistaken, a highly accustomed elctro cocker (im assuming because ytou have ace) user versus a person thats new to an E-Mag...hmm he doesnt have the right feel to it yet, while youve used the cocker how long...its really the player not the marker on bps...and if its between two high end elctronic semiautomatic markers...

and you cocker pinches...so so does my bushy with the test otb bolt on there...same with my imp, well it doesnt pinch it more comforms and resets...hmmm and its more effecient than a lvx that needs tuning, or a cocker you have to time...who actually wants to tune a marker..

as for ace...im getting ace on my e-mag, i have an aced cocker...i have many markers with ace...

hmm so really man, dont come on here like that...there are a million and one things i can say...

as for making fun of tippmans made for customization...look again at my a-5...btw, i didnt buy a lpk...i made it...as well as a custom chrome trigger

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Its not that 98's are too long, its that the foregrip is to far forward. I played air ball with my dads, so hard to stay tight. You cant hold it with one hand b/c the kick will throw your shots off even more. My dad has one and he doesnt care. Im surprised by how short the stock pull is.

[68_Classic]

i have a tippmann tricked out i love it but i don't use it ne more cause i got my mag and that damn thing is just to long.. i like em cause they easy to customize and there great guns for woods. u can throw em and they keep on workin...

[warbeak2099]

Wow, I thought people on AO were a little more open-minded. I owned a 98c for four years and I loved it. It competed just fine against any other gun on the field. Granted, I had about $850 in it but whatever. It ran lower than an orracle with the lp kit and shot pretty fast with the ebolt in it. I did some custom tweaking too and had other upgrades like a stabilizer, aradus barrel, nitro duck tank and other stuff. It was probably more upgraded than a Tippmann Effect 98. It shot awesome. The only reason I sold it was I wanted something more refined and non-electronic but still fast. And it wasn't too big either. I'm a frontman and with a pb d/f on it I was able to stay pretty damn tight. I'll miss the old tippy but I'm sure I'll love my new XRT custom mag. It pains me to see people being ignorant like this. You almost sound like the people who bash mags for being outdated and not able to compete...

[hobbesTZ]

You're tippman ran below 275 PSI?

[dwab3000]

my tippy with tons of work ran about that...mabey abit above..

hey man...i bet my a-5 is more tricked out than you old 98c...

[Orion33]

ROFL!

Yeah, ok. If you want a custom gun, you buy a 'Cocker. End of story.

As for shooting as fast as you pull... yeah, so will everything else. My PGP will shoot as fast as I pump/pull... it's about the ease of pulling... duh. Way easier to put out 17-18 bps on my 'Cocker than on any Tippmann.

A-5 E-Grips have the WORST trigger feel in the world. Not to mention when you're at any decent ROF on an A-5 it's gonna kick like a Remington. Don't give me that garbage about "omg if it kicks too much for you then you're a wuss" because if you've ever shot a decent gun with little->no kick, you know damn well it's easier to put ball on ball with that than with some kicking blowback.

And SPolo, the cocker v mag is far from over. I can tell you straight away that my 'Cocker, as well as many others, will go faster than any E-Mag, even with the latest 3.2 software, as well as wayy more efficient, I can get just over a case with a 68.45 on my 'Cocker. Plus I can pinch paint, quite similiar to an LX and I have an ACE.


maybe were not all rich little kids who ask dad for the new best gun...theres quite a price difference between a 98custom and an angle there buddy

[Orion33]

my minimag has more kickback then my old 98c or my friends a5

[MagRipper214]

tippmann = poop

[spasticsquirrel]

I have owned a tippmann A-5, and all i can say, it wasn't the dream marker for me. Tippmanns are built great, and the new field stripping thing is great, but the only thing i hate is the stock barrel! that was the worst thing ever. It never chopped, but it always broke in the barrel. Another thing is that when the shot actually went through, it curved at the last second like in metal gear solid 2, there was a person that had this thing that made bullets like curve at the last second so she would never get hit. I know that i could have gotten a better barrel, but that thing made me crazy and it sounded like a cannon, it WAS a cannon! well, now i got my mag, and i love it more and im glad i sold my A-5 now. I could reach like 9 bps on my tippmann, but i could never shoot like that in a game, but on my mag, i can shoot that same thing just pulling the trigger.

[wobbles82]

Tell ya what....I had a vert feed e-tippmann 98 with LPR, id use it. My friend has an E-bolt, and the other has an LPC, and tell ya what those two combined are sickening. My team has played Tippmann Effect and I could hear those guns rolling like my Timmy. With the Low Pressure kit there is very little kick. I will admit the guns are large, and ugly, but with a vert feed I would use one of those guns. And as for BC, yeah they make money, and yes they help sell the guns, but at practice if they use some other gun they play just as well with the Spyders, no doubt.

[teufelhunden]

dswab-- the RT makes your Tippy illegal, so why mention it? It'll go fast... but in your backyard. Kinda a meh issue right there.

Thing with the 3.2 E-Mag vs my 'Cocker is that the 'Mag has a BPS cap, 'Cocker doesn't. I don't shoot 20 bps, don't claim to, but if I happen to get 2 pulls off in less than .05, it's only going to shoot once on a E-Mag. That's a killer if you're snapshooting.

Bolt on my 'Cocker stops on the ball. I was just using that as a point of reference for the people who live and die by LX. I know it isn't a big deal. Also, for some of us, we get through the week to the weekends by being able to play with a marker to squeeze an extra 20 shots out of a fill and an extra .2 possible bps.

I wasn't 'making fun' of tippmann's customizability, I was just saying to whoever it was that said tippy's are kings of customizability... 'Cockers are way more customizable. And if you really want a unique marker, you can get a new body for your 'Cocker. I've yet to see any A-5 bodies. Didn't mean to offend/upset..

Orion- If your 'Mag is kicking more than a blowback, you've got something wrong or the internals on the blowbacks weigh like... nothing. And my dad has never bought me anything for paintball, ever. Not even a case of paint. I've worked my *** off for all my gear, thank you very much.

Wobbles... I'd like to get a chance to check out the TE Tippy's... rumor has it they, um, aren't 'production' or close to it.

[FalconGuy016]

Tippmann's are not precise enough for tournament play. Thats the big deal, but then there is the too long, too slow, too ugly thing too :) but a precise gun is a very determining factor in tourney ball. Being able to have a stable easy to snapshoop marker and low recoil is key

[Steelrat]

A guy with a tippman A-5 was kicking the crap out of everyone, including me, at the field today. He knew the field well, and played tight. Frankly, I didnt see the gun impacting his game at all. It was even running on CO2!

[Banshee23]

Thing with the 3.2 E-Mag vs my 'Cocker is that the 'Mag has a BPS cap, 'Cocker doesn't. I don't shoot 20 bps, don't claim to, but if I happen to get 2 pulls off in less than .05, it's only going to shoot once on a E-Mag. That's a killer if you're snapshooting.

#1 - the 3.2 software has a little thing called shot buffering, which means that the e-mag will be firing both of those shots

#2 - Your cocker doesn't technically have a "BPS cap" per say, but chances are your max rate of fire is less than 20 bps with an eblade on there....

And yes, the mag/cocker thing is over... Just get over it

[Konigballer]

nobody is saying that in individual cases, a person can't kick but against better armed opponents with a Tippmann. Its all about the persons game.

But when using a marker for tournies, it is rediculous to compare the performance of any legal Tippy with that of high end electros for tourny use. Their is no comparison, end of story. Thats all he needs to know.

The fact that u may know "some guy who slays all with an A-5" is meaningless within the context of this discussion. Its about if a Tippmann is suited for tourny play compared to other markers and it is'nt. Suitability is based on performance pure and simple. We are not evaluating this guys's game with a tippmann, we are evalutaing the tippmann itself.

I can be Mario Andretti and win LeMans driving a Pinto, but that does'nt mean it was the right tool for the job regardless of how well I may do with it.

[eric]

But when using a marker for tournies, it is rediculous to compare the performance of any legal Tippy with that of high end electros for tourny use. Their is no comparison, end of story. Thats all he needs to know.


Not end of story. I used to feel the same way though. Have you ever even seen an ebolt 98 setup nicely? THe trigger pull is the same as any high end electro and the gun keeps up. I know a few of Effect and their 98's dont have anything special to em, just ebolt kits, and they still shoot ropes. Ive seen a manual that shoots nicer than any mag ive ever shot.

You cant compare a stock $140 tippman to a $1400 alias as proof that tippmans suck.

[teufelhunden]

#1 - the 3.2 software has a little thing called shot buffering, which means that the e-mag will be firing both of those shots

#2 - Your cocker doesn't technically have a "BPS cap" per say, but chances are your max rate of fire is less than 20 bps with an eblade on there....

And yes, the mag/cocker thing is over... Just get over it


Shot buffering is illegal at many tourneys, IIRC. After I write this post I'll look thru the nipple rules.

Chances are my rof is under 20 bps 97% of the time. That other 3%, I want all my shots. Legally.

And mag/cocker may be over in your own head, but not in anybody else's. 'Mags are sweet guns, but they aren't the best... leave AO once in a while.

[teufelhunden]

NPPL rule 11.02:


The definition of a trigger is a movable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi auto or pump mode only, which means that no more than one paintball is discharged during each shooting cycle

Henceforth, if you're doing 25 bps on a 3.2 E-Mag for four secondsand it fires for an extra second after you stop pulling the trigger, you're gonna be pulled and excused from the tournament.

[Banshee23]

NPPL rule 11.02:



Henceforth, if you're doing 25 bps on a 3.2 E-Mag for four secondsand it fires for an extra second after you stop pulling the trigger, you're gonna be pulled and excused from the tournament.

Umm this is a trigger bounce rule, translating into one shot one pull. All the shot buffering does is remember a trigger pull if it missed one, you're never getting extra shots you didn't account for. Since many people have & continue to use E/Xmags in NPPL tournies it doesn't seem to be an issue to me... On the other hand Eblades have this funny tendenacy to bounce quite a bit at high speeds, which does fall under this rule. Probably why they tend to get pulled quite a bit at NPPL tourneys.

And where the hell did you get mags are the best from? I certainly didn't say anything of the sort. And what in the world makes you think anyone cares about the whole mag/cocker thing anymore? It's an outdated rivalry that nobody gives a crap about anymore, neither one is top of the heap or has been in a while now. So if you're gonna come on a predominantly mag forum & start spouting how your Eblade is so much better (it's nice, but it isn't better) then just save everyone here some trouble & go post on PBN, you'll fit in quite nicely there.

[teufelhunden]

Umm this is a trigger bounce rule, translating into one shot one pull. All the shot buffering does is remember a trigger pull if it missed one, you're never getting extra shots you didn't account for. Since many people have & continue to use E/Xmags in NPPL tournies it doesn't seem to be an issue to me... On the other hand Eblades have this funny tendenacy to bounce quite a bit at high speeds, which does fall under this rule. Probably why they tend to get pulled quite a bit at NPPL tourneys.

Right. When a ref sees you stop pulling but the gun keep going I'm sure he'll let you stay.

Eblades are quite easy to unbounce. Lower the LPR and up your tpul and trel.


And where the hell did you get mags are the best from? I certainly didn't say anything of the sort. And what in the world makes you think anyone cares about the whole mag/cocker thing anymore? It's an outdated rivalry that nobody gives a crap about anymore, neither one is top of the heap or has been in a while now. So if you're gonna come on a predominantly mag forum & start spouting how your Eblade is so much better (it's nice, but it isn't better) then just save everyone here some trouble & go post on PBN, you'll fit in quite nicely there.

Right. You're the one going on about how 'Cocker vs 'Mag is dead, which I disagree with. I back my argument with facts. You, however, do not. Even right there you did the same thing.. "it's nice, but it isn't better" is just furthering your lack of a cause.

I'll stick with my facts, you stick with your babble and we'll call it a day.

[spasticsquirrel]

When will the cockers vs mags end, i like em both, i got a mag because my friends were or got cockers, if they were getting mags, i would have gotten a cocker. I have shot a E-bladed custom cocker, and i have shot it when it didn't have the e-blade. I have shot my mag (duh). I think that they both have their pros and cons. This will keep on going on like the tippman vs spyders. It will go on like autocockers vs impulces. It WILL ALWAYS GO ON AS LONG AS THERE ARE LOYAL COSTUMERS! im sure that there are other debates of what marker are better, but these are what i mostly see.

[jwalker87]

what he's saying, teufelhunden, is that NO ONE CARES ANYMORE. Mags and 'cockers are different. It is impossible to say whether one is better than the other. It's comparing apples to oranges, for lack of a better comparison. I'm not going to argue this beyond what I just said, but I'll end with saying that your argument is not proving that you are right; it is merely proving that you in fact are are the puerile immature little child you are trying desparately not be.

[teufelhunden]

it is merely proving that you in fact are are the puerile immature little child you are trying desparately not be.


Says the kid who can't yet buy cigarettes or lottery tickets.

Of course, I am quite puerile and immature. :tup: to you for figuring out my secret.

[fuzzynutzipper]

Well, I am an active tippmann user and a regular at the Tippy forum as well, and I have to say that most of over there agree that tippmanns aren't the greatest tournament guns... but they weren't designed to be so. ie: on the A-5, which I do own one, do you think having a big ol cyclone feeder sticking out the right side of the gun was designed for players to be tucking tight into bunkers, no. Most of the tippmann users are people who go out to someone's back yard with a bunch of friends and play their own games. Frankly, I think tippmann markets most of their products towards newbs to get them interested in the sport. All I have to say is sniper barrels... hehe. Tippmanns are good paintball guns, but not for every kind of game.

Remember... not all of us are speedballers!

[teufelhunden]

Well, I am an active tippmann user and a regular at the Tippy forum as well, and I have to say that most of over there agree that tippmanns aren't the greatest tournament guns... but they weren't designed to be so. ie: on the A-5, which I do own one, do you think having a big ol cyclone feeder sticking out the right side of the gun was designed for players to be tucking tight into bunkers, no. Most of the tippmann users are people who go out to someone's back yard with a bunch of friends and play their own games. Frankly, I think tippmann markets most of their products towards newbs to get them interested in the sport. All I have to say is sniper barrels... hehe. Tippmanns are good paintball guns, but not for every kind of game.

Remember... not all of us are speedballers!

Well said.

I like the line in your sig, too. :)

[SpecialBlend2786]

Well, I am an active tippmann user and a regular at the Tippy forum as well, and I have to say that most of over there agree that tippmanns aren't the greatest tournament guns... but they weren't designed to be so. ie: on the A-5, which I do own one, do you think having a big ol cyclone feeder sticking out the right side of the gun was designed for players to be tucking tight into bunkers, no. Most of the tippmann users are people who go out to someone's back yard with a bunch of friends and play their own games. Frankly, I think tippmann markets most of their products towards newbs to get them interested in the sport. All I have to say is sniper barrels... hehe. Tippmanns are good paintball guns, but not for every kind of game.

Remember... not all of us are speedballers!

yep.

Also, Tippmanns DOMINATE the scenario market. Not cockers. Not mags. Not impulses, angels, timmys.

Tippmanns.

[trains are bad]

I could have a long (accurate) barrel while still having a short marker.

long != accurate.

I love tippmanns.

Mine is every bit as fast as a mag. Even more consistant than a mag.

[Rebel46_99]

nobody is saying that in individual cases, a person can't kick but against better armed opponents with a Tippmann. Its all about the persons game.

But when using a marker for tournies, it is rediculous to compare the performance of any legal Tippy with that of high end electros for tourny use. Their is no comparison, end of story. Thats all he needs to know.

The fact that u may know "some guy who slays all with an A-5" is meaningless within the context of this discussion. Its about if a Tippmann is suited for tourny play compared to other markers and it is'nt. Suitability is based on performance pure and simple. We are not evaluating this guys's game with a tippmann, we are evalutaing the tippmann itself.

I can be Mario Andretti and win LeMans driving a Pinto, but that does'nt mean it was the right tool for the job regardless of how well I may do with it.

This goes to Teufel, also...

On a Sunday in May of 2003, my 19 y/o son and I, plus a player we picked up THAT morning, won a 3-man Rookie Tourney here in St. Louis. We lost one game in the pre-lims because of a mistake I made and we ended the day 9-1.

What were we shooting? My son was shooting a Red dust SFL E-Mag, the other guy had a Tippy E-98 and I was shooting a Tippy 98. No bloody C or E if that helps tell you it's age. We beat some good teams loaded to the gills with Angels, Impulses, highly-modded Cockers and lord knows what else. We po'd alot of people in the process while at the same time we opened a few eyes. The E-98 chronoed twice at 220-230 and mine was between 250-270 on 3 occasions.

So, all of this chest-thumping about the virtues of whether a Tippy is tournament worthy or not, or the old cocker/mag argument, it all comes back to a familiar refrain.

It's not the Equipment........... It's the Player.

On that particular day, I and my teammates happen to be on our games. 2 Tippy's and an SFL.

DW

P.S. and YES, I do own an X-Mag now.

[hobbesTZ]

I'm sure you would have done better with the Xmag. Otherwise, it's just an expensive paper wieght that you may as well sell to get something that will make a differance in your life.

[barrel break]

Tippmanns can be MADE to be super high ROF tourney beats, but you might have to put some time into it...
my old mech 98 was fast enough for me ~ 8BPS, without an E-bolt, if you want to see some crazy 98's, check out the tippmann marker gallery, specifically Ricos Revenge, his 98 is sicker than most angels I've seen, 13 BPS, and beutiful

anyway, to the Tippmann Effect thing, they are not heavily modded, some Tipp EF players dont even have e-bolts! they still win too

[Fixion]

just a heads up on the too long/too slow argument..

a tuned tippman will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger, with the ebolt, its as capable as any other emarker.

as far as length, i beleive its 1.5 inches longer than an angel LCD... and we all know how those arent tourny guns.. :rolleyes:

its the player not the gun, a tippmann well setup will carry you as far as your game will...

1.5 inches is alot, considering the placement of the trigger frames :rolleyes:
Then think about where ball feed is....

[teufelhunden]

This goes to Teufel, also...

On a Sunday in May of 2003, my 19 y/o son and I, plus a player we picked up THAT morning, won a 3-man Rookie Tourney here in St. Louis. We lost one game in the pre-lims because of a mistake I made and we ended the day 9-1.

What were we shooting? My son was shooting a Red dust SFL E-Mag, the other guy had a Tippy E-98 and I was shooting a Tippy 98. No bloody C or E if that helps tell you it's age. We beat some good teams loaded to the gills with Angels, Impulses, highly-modded Cockers and lord knows what else. We po'd alot of people in the process while at the same time we opened a few eyes. The E-98 chronoed twice at 220-230 and mine was between 250-270 on 3 occasions.

So, all of this chest-thumping about the virtues of whether a Tippy is tournament worthy or not, or the old cocker/mag argument, it all comes back to a familiar refrain.

It's not the Equipment........... It's the Player.

On that particular day, I and my teammates happen to be on our games. 2 Tippy's and an SFL.

DW

P.S. and YES, I do own an X-Mag now.

3-man rookie..

My team and I usually compete novice and occassionally am if it's a smaller tourney... haven't seen a Tippmann on a tourney field in... um, a long time. Those chrono numbers aren't really anything special either. And yes, I'm aware it's the player not the gun... but who is going to be able to play more effectively? Me with my 'Cocker or me with a Tippmann at 6 bps with paint going everywhere...

A better gun won't make a better player, but worse gun can hold back a better player.

Barrel break... Tippmann or not, 13 bps isn't fast. You can get an E-Spyder at the same speed. Look around for the videos of RTP's doing faster.

[barrel break]

13 BPS is plenty fast, who needs to shoot ropes anyway? most mech cockers shoot slower than that anyway

[ghideon]

M98C's are still the best gun for the money. You can't beat the amount of marker you get for $140...

[barrel break]

heck, you can get a new 98c for $110

[teufelhunden]

13 BPS is plenty fast, who needs to shoot ropes anyway? most mech cockers shoot slower than that anyway

13bps is not plenty fast. Hold a lane at 13 and then hold one at 17.

And I'm not a mech 'Cocker fan :)

I also beg to differ on the 98c being the best for the money. I got a TES for $170 brand new from the factory [w00t for AO members! :)] that rips, is consistent, and is decently efficient... on CO2. I've heard problems with the eye at high ROFs, but I haven't taken it above like 13.. I don't wanna bother with fitting my Evo into that neck, so I'm just running a rev on it.

[No sKiLLz]

13 BPS is plenty fast, who needs to shoot ropes anyway? most mech cockers shoot slower than that anyway
Holy blaspheme!

I encourage as many people to play tourneys with Tippmans as possible. I think they are excellent paintball guns and really fast to boot. In fact, if you live in Southern California, or want to play tournaments here, I think you would be silly not to use one. :D

[trevorjk]

man id gladly use a tippman anyday, sure the 98c looks long but thats only cuase the front grip is so far forward and most kids put huge 18 inch barrels on those things... i could hold my own with my old tippmann anyday just as well as i can with my rtpro now... and i can honestly say ive been able to hold my own with a pgp... so please dont tell me the gun has anything to do with skill cuase either way ill meat you at the 50 with my pgp and still shoot you once before you put 5 in my chest and ill just sit there repump and keep playing as your walking off the feild

[jwalker87]

i dont think the argument here is that a good marker can be a substitute for skill. What he's saying, I think, is that the same person at the same skill level will do better with a 'mag than with a tippy.

[Rebel46_99]

Which brings up the same old tired-*** argument of how many times do you have to hit a player before he's out? 11? 13? 15? 20??? Last I heard, it was just ONCE!!!

Once you guys get it in your head that ROF=a better player, you just don't give up, do you? So what if you can lay down 20-30 bps? If you don't hit anyone, what good does it do you? While you're concentrating on a sustained ROF (spray and pray), some 11 y/o will sting you in the neck with a PGP. Some of you guys are real works of art.

And the tourney was LAST year. My total paintball experience amounted to a full 9 months at that point. Around here, you're allowed one full year of tourney play before you have to step up to Novice. The comment about velocity was in reference to an earlier post about Tippy's being able to shoot that low.

So take your Cockers and your 20bps holier-than-thou attitude someplace where people actually care.

[No sKiLLz]

Yeah, you guys are totally right. I mean, if someone posts on you shooting a 20 bps rope and you stick your face in the stream, there's no reason you couldn't get a shot or two off in the .05 second gap between balls.

BTW, if you don't think shooting fast is important, why did you spend $1400 on an X-mag?

[Rebel46_99]

And if you know where the stream is, why would you be stupid enough to use that same angle?

And I didn't pay $1400 for an X. I bought one because I could, not because I needed one. Is that a good enough answer, pookie?

[No sKiLLz]

And if you know where the stream is, why would you be stupid enough to use that same angle?

And I didn't pay $1400 for an X. I bought one because I could, not because I needed one. Is that a good enough answer, pookie?

Soooo....if you're not going to stick your head out at that angle, one could concievably just keep shooting that angle and walk up on you, right?
After all, you're not going to poke out and shoot.

Oh, and any answer would have been fine. I just thought you might have a valid reason instead of a cop-out.

[ShooterJM]

Soooo....if you're not going to stick your head out at that angle, one could concievably just keep shooting that angle and walk up on you, right?

Fortunately there is usually more then one spot on a bunker that you can pop out of. ;)

[No sKiLLz]

Fortunately there is usually more then one spot on a bunker that you can pop out of. ;)

Sure. That works GREAT if the opponent is wrapping his bunker to get to you. But let's assume he's not retarted.

[teufelhunden]

Which brings up the same old tired-*** argument of how many times do you have to hit a player before he's out? 11? 13? 15? 20??? Last I heard, it was just ONCE!!!

Once you guys get it in your head that ROF=a better player, you just don't give up, do you? So what if you can lay down 20-30 bps? If you don't hit anyone, what good does it do you? While you're concentrating on a sustained ROF (spray and pray), some 11 y/o will sting you in the neck with a PGP. Some of you guys are real works of art.

And the tourney was LAST year. My total paintball experience amounted to a full 9 months at that point. Around here, you're allowed one full year of tourney play before you have to step up to Novice. The comment about velocity was in reference to an earlier post about Tippy's being able to shoot that low.

So take your Cockers and your 20bps holier-than-thou attitude someplace where people actually care.

Well, since you only need to hit someone once to get them out, toss your Tippmann, toss your X-Mag, and buy a BE Blade. It'll shoot one ball, enough for one elim.

Ah, but it doesn't work like that, does it? That's what I thought. Also, when we play, it's all tourney guys. We all have on our tourney gear, which means even Evil at 300 is gonna bounce. So 1 hit doesn't always equal an elim. Well, I guess you could take the Tippmann back out, because you could put out 2 or 3 at someone when they pop out.

But then you wanna shoot at people on the break. Hm. Those 5 bps from the Tippmann aren't cutting it, are they? When there's .2 seconds between balls, you better be a damn good shot to pop someone while you're on the run, they're on the run, and at the opposite end of the field. Or, you could take your X-Mag back out and rain some paint. Wow! Some elims. But wait, it only takes one hit per kill. Back to the Blade.

:rolleyes:

Nice logic you've got.

But, there's more. I play back. Usually. That means my job is not to get elims. My job is to put my fronts/inserts in a position where they can get elims without getting shot out. Hm. Well, I'll just stop bringing a gun onto the field. I'm not shooting anyone for the most part. Don't need the extra weight I guess!

The point about Tippmann velocity was not mine, so I won't say anything.

My holier-than-thou attitude? How about my I-have-more-tourney-experience-than-many/most-around-here attitude? Maybe I could spread some of my knowledge. But nah, I won't. Because I'm no longer an effective player, I don't bring a gun on the field.

[wombo102]

i personaly hate tippmans. sure they are ok for beginers but everyone i know has a tippman 98 custom.

[ShooterJM]

Sure. That works GREAT if the opponent is wrapping his bunker to get to you. But let's assume he's not retarted.

Should we also assume you can't move to another bunker, call a teammate to put him in his bunker or shoot your other angles all while he's posted on one angle of your bunker at 20 bps?

Anyway you cut it, if you pop out into a 20bps rope you're getting a face full of ego killer.

[Vanced]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

This is just like everything else in paintball ... Just a matter of opinion... Find what works for you, and enjoy the game for what it is... a game...

Welcome to America ... Everyone is allowed an opinion... but please respect others ... so feel free to share yours but don't force it on anyone...

If that isn't working for you... I am sure you can move somewhere that you'll be given the definate answers your looking for... and everyone that doesn't like it will be quickly killed... maybe that will make you happy ...

If you are having fun, and you find contentment with your game, your equipment, and the people you are playing with... you are way ahead of the folks arguing over the mag vs cocker ... LP vs HP... Closed Bolt vs Open Bolt... 200 vs 2000 dollar gun ... or any other opinions in paintball...

Some people might as well agure does the color of the gun make a bigger diffence ?

Just makes me laugh some time... and knowing that this post will probably be flamed for just the hell of it... but I am smile'n as I type it and will be playing and having fun this weekend with some of my best friends... some shooting Mags, some Spyders, Some Tippys, and who knows what else we'll drag out or end up shooting...

Just another worthless 2 virtual cents for ya...

P.S. - I own 2 Tippys'. In my 14 years of playing this game... I own, have owned, have shot or played with just about everything that made a ball of jello full of food coloring go fast down a polished piece of plumbing in hopes of having fun and for the love of sport...

[Rebel46_99]

OK... For the sake of this discussion, with all things being proved/disproved, believed/unbelieved.... It all comes back to, as I stated before, that if someone can't reach 20+ bps, either 1) they're no good as a player or 2) their marker is inferior.... and there is ALWAYS someone else who stands on his dais and preaches that fact to the masses.

Tuefel, you may be an excellent player, and that is to your credit. But, what sets people off is when you use a competing product and then come on the competitor's BBS and tell them they're using crap, is where we have a problem. I believe it's called professional courtesy. If I want to shoot a Blade, Tippy, Spyder, Angel or an X-Mag, who are you or anyone else for that matter to tell me I'm wrong? If you present it in a manner different from what we've seen here, i.e. "this is why I like Product A", as opposed to "you don't want that, it sucks", people might actually listen to you once in a while.

I'm trying to be constructive because these always turn into flamefests with neither side changing the other's opinions. It ALL comes down to personal preference, how much simpler can it be.

Sorry, guys...... I'm done here.

DW

[No sKiLLz]

Should we also assume you can't move to another bunker, call a teammate to put him in his bunker or shoot your other angles all while he's posted on one angle of your bunker at 20 bps?

Anyway you cut it, if you pop out into a 20bps rope you're getting a face full of ego killer.
At the risk of going through a million different scenarios, let's just say ceteris peribus (all things being equal) the guy who can shoot more paint has the advantage.

[teufelhunden]

Tuefel, you may be an excellent player, and that is to your credit. But, what sets people off is when you use a competing product and then come on the competitor's BBS and tell them they're using crap, is where we have a problem. I believe it's called professional courtesy. If I want to shoot a Blade, Tippy, Spyder, Angel or an X-Mag, who are you or anyone else for that matter to tell me I'm wrong? If you present it in a manner different from what we've seen here, i.e. "this is why I like Product A", as opposed to "you don't want that, it sucks", people might actually listen to you once in a while.

I'm trying to be constructive because these always turn into flamefests with neither side changing the other's opinions. It ALL comes down to personal preference, how much simpler can it be.

Sorry, guys...... I'm done here.

DW

I called something crap? Don't recall that. I said that the 'Cocker in its present form has a bunch of advantages over the current 'Mags... but two years ago before the EBlade it would've been the other way. Other than the efficiency, mech 'Mags are better than mech 'Cockers for the most part. And who knows, maybe next year/whenever Tom gets his new gun out it may tip.

I long digressed from the product issue when it turned into ANOTHER rof debate.. And I don't recall saying wrong... but if you or anybody else is going to deny that a 'Cocker/Timmy/Trix/Shocker/Borg/Whatever is a better marker than a Tippmann, then you've got a number of issues..

And yes, often times there is a wrong way and a right way. Personal preference can only go so far. Someone, I forget where, probably on PBR or AIM, put it like this, in reference to the drop forward thing: Personal preference only goes so far. If your personal preference is to do something way A, but way B is more effective, why continue doing it way A? He equated it to a tennis serve; when he came into his HS tennis team, he served his way, which was more comfortable for him, but he forced himself to do it the way he was coached to do it, because it was more effective. Ditto for drops; no drop puts your wrist in a natural angle, meaning less movement on a shot [better accuracy] and less strain on the wrist, meaning higher ROF. Not to mention it's far more practical to have a long marker than a tall marker. But I digress, that's not the issue at hand here, even though it will probably become one because using an outside example always becomes that.

I ran a very nicely set up 'Mag for about 7 months. So at least my opinion is coming from somewhere. People all the time talk about OMG TEH TIMMY IS TEH BETTER TAHN TEH MATRIX and have shot each of them once on a range. Automatically makes an educated opinion, right? :rolleyes:

And to your first point, which I removed from the quote because I wasn't going to talk about it but now that I saw it again I'm gonna-- the ability to max your ROF doesn't make you a good or bad player. It may make you more effective, but if you can run a field with a VSC Phantom, hell, more power to you. But think about what you could do with an Karnivore or Alias.


Vanced- winning usually creates a higher level of fun, no? Nobody likes losing. Hence, when you talk/argue about a better marker/hopper/tank/barrel condom, if you get out that product A really is better than product B and can help a player, then aren't you helping them have fun, as it will aid them in their quest for world dominati... err, victory between the tapes?


Wow. Kinda disjointed and such, but it hopefully gets a message or two out.

[kungfuhampster11]

alright, 13 bps IS fast, it may not be as fast as 16 bps or whatever you average, but you can defiantley hold someone down with 13 bps as you can with 17 bps, 17 bps is defiabntley more usfaul for a back player than 13, but its not absolutley necessary, and not everyone plays back, so speed isnt what were all looking for, i have a minimag with a classic valve, stock single trigger, and i hold my own just fine cuz i can pull around 7 bps MAX but i dont play back so i dont need that kind of speed, so try puttin yourself in a differnt position point of view, then youll see how 13 bps is fast indeed in some cases

[teufelhunden]

Here's how I look at it...

Ever needed 12 feet of rope and only had 10? Kinda wish you bought 20 when you were at the store.

Same way with BPS. Am I always ripping as hard as I can? Negative. Is it nice to know I can empty a hopper real quick if necessary? Sure is.

[Vanced]

teufelhunden - True winning can add a level of fun to the game... but with all things comes a cost ... sometimes the cost of winning doesn't justify the means... So are you saying you must have a $2000 paint cannon... to have fun compete and anyone that doesn't have the means to tote one of theese to the fields shouldn't even bother ? Even if you put it IS better than gun "X".

Ok Sell your Car, starve your kids, lie, cheat , steal what ever it takes to get that edge... because THAT is what is important in the game... not the friends and fun, challenge, and the sport of it all...

So are you also saying that winning is SO important that you do what ever it takes... and BPS you are calling the determining factor... do you use the cheater WAS boards, ramping up software, debounced whatever...

Supose it is ok to take steriods, wipe, pad your clothes, bend what ever rule you can to get away with everythign but what will get you ejected... so bassicly if you can't win fair ...cheat

Just because you have one doesn't make you a better person, mean you will have more fun, and very often mean you will win ... May it A advantage ... it is most certainly not the only or most certainly not the most important advantage...

Nobody likes to lose... quite possibly true... but I know some of my fondest memories of paintball have come in a loss... the great move... the last on your team and you take out 3 or 4 before you go... Or the time you were so caught up in sneaking up on someone or moving to the next bunker you ran / sneak right past someone that shoots you in the rear. Very so often you remember an specific event in a game and not the outcome of the game...

So bottom line... If you only play this game to win or lose... then you are missing out on what truely is best... the people and having fun...

[kungfuhampster11]

that sorta along the lines of what i was saying, i like playing with my mag, i love that gun, and i can and will play against people with there guns that can rip 30 bps and use there debounce settings to get it up there real high, IMO its more fun and exhilerating for me to be at a disadvantage when i play, and dont say that it gives me an excuse for losing, if i lose i dont usually take it that hard, ill just try and find my mistake and not make it again, but winning agaisnt something like that is real fun and is real good for your self asteem, and it can give yya some bragging rights, over someone that has a timmy and has played for many years is bragging about taking out the kid with the brass eagel avenger that is playin for the first time

[Vanced]

Here's how I look at it...

Ever needed 12 feet of rope and only had 10? Kinda wish you bought 20 when you were at the store.

Same way with BPS. Am I always ripping as hard as I can? Negative. Is it nice to know I can empty a hopper real quick if necessary? Sure is.

Not if the first 10 feet cost me $200 bucks and the last 10 cost me another $1800

Buy two 10 foot pieaces and tie um together for 400 and save yourself 1400 and buy yourself a clue to what is important and should have priorities in life...

[fuzzynutzipper]

so what you're saying is... buy two tippmanns and go double gunnin it? hehe.

[teufelhunden]

Where you get $2000 from is beyond me. My 'Cocker is about $800 now. Imps and Bushies can be had for around 4-450. BKOs around 3. Got my TES for $170. All these guns are fast. Not equal, but all fast. So there goes your 11-20ft of rope costing $1800. By the way, every penny in my gun is my own sweat. Work 40+ hrs a week over the summer to play ball, although now we're starting to get some sponsors so maybe more money can go to other things.

I don't have WAS. My gun can bounce, all nocap/highcap electro guns can bounce. I don't let my gun bounce. Anybody who plays speedball and uses ROF to their advantage is a cheater now? I've never had a 141 called on me [well, there was one but it was an admitted noob ref who apologized after the game when he realized it was the wrong call], never been DQ'd after a game/from a tourney, my gun doesn't shoot hot, it doesn't ramp, it doesn't bounce.

Within the rules, I'll do whatever it takes to win. I'll put 10 balls on someone to make sure a few break and they can be easily spotted by a paint check. Never been called for that. I'll push into air bunkers so I can be less visible to the other team's shooters.

If you have those memories because you lost, you're not as competitive as many paintballers. If I make a sweet move and lose, I'm less apt to remember it [unless it was omg sweet] if I lose. Ever run thru a guy to win a tourney? Bunker a guy who had no idea you were there? Feels a lot better if you're winning. I play for that. Not for the comrodority. That comes off the field, between games. When my mask is down and my gun on... it's pure competition.

[SpecialBlend2786]

cuase either way ill meat you at the 50 with my pgp and still shoot you once before you put 5 in my chest and ill just sit there repump and keep playing as your walking off the feild

no you wont :)

But anyway, I think the BPS issue really depends on your playing style. For instance, a front player needs to be able to fire off 5-7 rounds QUICK, while a back player may need to be able to set up a consistant and constant rythem of fire which is decently fast.

Regardless however, I believe that using lower-end gear will in the long run make you a better player. This is the reason i'm against kids getting Angels and Timmy's as their first gun. Start small and work your way up. A beginer doesn;t need that kind of firepower, and if he does have it available, he resorts to relying on firepower as opposed to tecnique and skill.

Tippmann Effect and Bad Company are examples of teams using sub-par gear and relying on their skills to succeed. I believe they get much more gratification through this method then other teams who use tricked out $1000+ impy's and still suck (Ton Tons :eek: ).

ok, I'm done ranting.

[Jackel411]

Just as an FYI..

No matter what gun I have used or are using in a tourny season... ( Ir3 last year , b2k3 this year , I still prefer my ugly assed E Gripped A5.. Why??

Heres why...
1) Combined with a good vert reg/Apocolypse tank set up it will chrono consistantly in the range I need to set it at.
2) The feeder mech can keep up with me unlike my crappy halo that just seems to break more than work , or my egg which doenst have a zboard yet
3) Add a barrel kit and a matched paint its deadly accurate
4) No mods , no eye , no cheater boards... its the fastest damn gun I have seen thats locked doen in semi only

OH about the long and slow debate... FYI my A5 is the same lenght as my buddies Z timmy and faster ;)

[Vanced]

Where you get $2000 from is beyond me. My 'Cocker is about $800 now.

Add up the total of your Gear... I am talking all your gear you feel you need to wear to win.. Packs, pods, custom jerseys,C4 pants, Tanks, drops, fittings, batteries, Halo's, etc... 800 might not get you to 2k but anyone who has bought a new angel, timmy, x-mag, etc or any 1200+ gun will typically go over 2k once you add all the little extras you buy and don't realize it... All the stuff as you put it you need to win...



Within the rules, I'll do whatever it takes to win. I'll put 10 balls on someone to make sure a few break and they can be easily spotted by a paint check. Never been called for that. I'll push into air bunkers so I can be less visible to the other team's shooters.

As I said in my very first post... and never wanted to digress to this level.. paintball is if nothing else just a game of opinion... If you have to do take everything to the to have fun ... All I can say is in MY OPINION you are missing out on what really matters... I have been at your point of view for a differnt sport but it is all the same... ran my 10 miles day, lifted 4 days a week, ate right, practiced hard 7 days a week, put up with 2 a days in the summer heat, did everything by the book to bust my *** to try and win at all costs... and did win a lot... BUT...

Now here I am years and a couple of bad knees later... and I can't tell you the results of 90% of what I did even thought it was my entire world at the time ... But I still can tell you about the friends I have made the stuff we did after and before games / meets / competitions... the jokes and hyjinks at practice or bus or car rides...

If winning is all that drives you, and all that you find the enjoyment in ... in MY OPINION you lead a very shallow and misguided life... speaking as one AO friend to another... enjoy the ride every bit as much as the destination... because life is just a big collection of thoose little moments all strung together... There are no secerts in life ... but the closest thing I have ever seen to one is to simple find contentment and happiness in who you are, what you do, and your impact on the lives of people around you...

If you are happy with the way you play and live... then more power too you... just remember that is what works for you... it may not and probably will not work for the next guy... accept the views of other people as they should accept the views of you... because for me I will always get more out of shaking the kids hand with the tippmann for playing a good, clean, fun game, give me one more person to play with, and watch our sport grow and prosper than sitching him from 10 feet, jumping up and down, and telling him come back with new gear so you can play with the big boys or stay home... and I think he or she would too... because that is how the sport you love got to where it is today... not by an elitist winning is everything attitude...

[p u r e e v i l]

(Going back to the first page...)

Tippmanns really aren't THAT long. I mean, the A5 is a lot shorter then some guns out there, and regular 98's (with or without barrels) are about the same size as a Spyder and Cocker. (I've compaired)

An advantage would be the profile, with the right set up. It (Tippmann) being a single tubed marker, where as other markers are a little more...longer downward.

As for Tippmanns being slow, sure, if it's stock. But if you're going to use a Tippmann 98c or A-5 and plan on getting serious in the scene WITH it, make it electronic...simple.

[Rebel46_99]

Where you get $2000 from is beyond me. My 'Cocker is about $800 now. Imps and Bushies can be had for around 4-450. BKOs around 3. Got my TES for $170. All these guns are fast. Not equal, but all fast. So there goes your 11-20ft of rope costing $1800. By the way, every penny in my gun is my own sweat. Work 40+ hrs a week over the summer to play ball, although now we're starting to get some sponsors so maybe more money can go to other things.

I don't have WAS. My gun can bounce, all nocap/highcap electro guns can bounce. I don't let my gun bounce. Anybody who plays speedball and uses ROF to their advantage is a cheater now? I've never had a 141 called on me [well, there was one but it was an admitted noob ref who apologized after the game when he realized it was the wrong call], never been DQ'd after a game/from a tourney, my gun doesn't shoot hot, it doesn't ramp, it doesn't bounce.

Within the rules, I'll do whatever it takes to win. I'll put 10 balls on someone to make sure a few break and they can be easily spotted by a paint check. Never been called for that. I'll push into air bunkers so I can be less visible to the other team's shooters.

If you have those memories because you lost, you're not as competitive as many paintballers. If I make a sweet move and lose, I'm less apt to remember it [unless it was omg sweet] if I lose. Ever run thru a guy to win a tourney? Bunker a guy who had no idea you were there? Feels a lot better if you're winning. I play for that. Not for the comrodority. That comes off the field, between games. When my mask is down and my gun on... it's pure competition.

Picky, Picky, Picky......... Yes, I know I said I was done, but I couldn't help myself.

Vanced's total of $2000 was strictly a reference point, or are you always this literal? And my use of the word "crap" was another rhetorical reference. In your second sentence you proved Vanced's point. "My Cocker is about $800 now ." What was it before? I assume $3-400? You already had the "first 10 feet". And yet you spend another $3-400 or more on the next 2 feet. Why?

Again, I say, WHO are YOU to determine whether a player would be better off playing with, (guess I better be precise here, lest I be taken out of context), Marker A as opposed to Marker B? If you provide reams of data and that player still decides to go with his first choice, that's his choice to make. Are you then going to continue to ridicule him for making that choice?

It's time to step down from your pulpit.

DW

[No sKiLLz]

It's time to step down from your pulpit.

DW
Hey pot, at least the kettle didn't get back up on it.

Jackel 411: Was there really any point to lying?

I think it's a great thing when people use Tippmans in tournament play, I encourage more people to use them. Those who oppose it, think about what you're saying. Realize all the things you feel are bad about the Tippmans and then think about what side of the field they're on.

[Rebel46_99]

Hey pot, at least the kettle didn't get back up on it.

Jackel 411: Was there really any point to lying?

.

And your point is, child? I felt there was something to be refuted.

And what did Jackel lie about? State your point.

DW

[No sKiLLz]

And your point is, child? I felt there was something to be refuted.

And what did Jackel lie about? State your point.

DW
You know, for an old man, you're not too bright.

[Tack]

its the player not the gun, a tippmann well setup will carry you as far as your game will...

Well said. Just some food for thought. If the gun is too slow and not capable of keeping up with tourney play, what about Total Greif? They play stock/modified stock class against super guns all the time, and usually win. I have played against them and have had my fill of being snap shot from the so called slow pump guns.

If the other players have tippmanns, perhaps they are just starting out, that or they like the way the gun preforms and don't want to change. Don't count anyone out until you play with them. The weakest link on any team is usually the cocky guy who likes to talk down other people's stuff just because they can. That is usually the person who can't put up when the time comes.

I have played with the 16 bps E-Mag/Cocker, I have played with my m98, and I have also played with my Illusion Pump and Splatmaster. Which one do I use when I am on the field? Depends on what I feel like at the time. If I am playing tournament speedball I will go with my E-mag or cocker because I have them available to me but if one goes down, I'll walk on with my Mec-Mag, Palmers Stroker, or even my 98 and still have a good showing on the field. Woods/scenario or rec speedball, I'll play with almost anything. It all comes down to what each player feels they like. I won't get into the drop forward debate either, except to say that just like that debate, the ROF debate completely comes down to what you like compared to what someone else likes. Your personal preferences can be as different from the next guy's as can be, however to stand there and tell the other guy that his gear is inferior because yours will shoot faster, or cost more is childish to say the least. Play with what you are comfortable with and can use to its fullest. If or when your skills surpass the technology of the equipment, then decide weather or not to upgrade and let me say that it will take a lot longer to actually surpass the technology than most people think. They upgrade not because they need to, just because they want to or to keep up with friends or popular trends.

As for the winning is everything attitude, that is all a part of youth. The older you get the more you realize that winning is only a small part of the game, it’s how you win, how you lose, or what you take away from the game that is important. I have done the tourney scene and to be honest with you, I don’t like it. In my opinion as an older player (Not that old but older than many of these kids) the attitude and cocky actions I saw while on and off the field at tournaments helped me decide that form of the game is not for me. I can play just as hard on a rec field or in a scenario or big game and walk away with as many memories and probably more friends. Now that being said, I am by no means saying that tournament paintball is bad and because I don’t like it you shouldn’t like it either. By all means play the way you like to play and enjoy it just don’t force your beliefs, feelings or ideologies about the game on others.

[Rebel46_99]

You know, for an old man, you're not too bright.

:rolleyes:

[Jackel411]

No skillz

Trust me on this one.. most definitly not lying....

This exact discussion came up during a tourny where I was seen basically throwing my then matrix in the trunk of my car and picking up my Ea5 , Im not saying evey one should run out and do the same.. But not for nothing , Ive held my own up against NYX and Ground Zero in practices using a mere Ea5 with matched paint to barrel combo ( CP kit ) , CP reg , double trigger , and an adjustable tank..

And you know what , if all things go well , maybe just maybe youll see me do the same in X ball if I ever get around to taking offers up with people.

I never cared about guns and the price point , I use what works and what suits my needs... I still shock people when I work at my store and giggle when they ask me " How come I dont carry DM-4's? " my answer is always the same " Kid , trust me for 1400 bucks you can get this gun , a high end tank , and a barrel kit , and have a better time "

Flame me if you want.. but any AONY members Ill be happy to let you shoot my Ea5 if we ever play together ( hey Im going to HiVI2 in two weeks ;) ) and then the reaction is always the same " What is this thing?!?! "