AGD is Great... But...

[HyperSnyper]

Before I start opening up and speaking out loud, I would like to applaud Tom and his great team of airsmiths that developed such a great gun! The design is such an engineering masterpiece. Simplicity with Performance, no strings attached.

This is my own opinion, not to flame anyone, but I have noticed alot of excessive trust in the designs of Toms great work. Many people here seem to just openly say "Just let Tom do the guess work, his design will always be the best". It bothers me that there are many people like that here. Mindless zombies that put their entire faith into the working of one man (sorry Tom, no pressure).

I guess what Im trying to say is I wish people would challenge Tom, give their own ideas about different desings. Point out possible (?) flaws. Stimulate the minds here in the Forum. That is what the purpose of this forum is. To expand and collect the creative thoughts, ideas, and opinions of the Mag community. I mean, cmon you guys have to agree with me, what kinda forum would this be if everyone was just a follower and replied to each thread as "Yeah Tom sounds great, put that thingy into production and we'll buy it" or "Wow, thats got to be the greatest idea in the world, I dont think that the design can be perfected anymore". If drivel like that dominated the forums, this forum would be dull and boring.

The reason this thread popped up was because of too many people responding to my questions with "Dont do anything, Tom has designed it like that for a reason, and anything else will hurt its performance, the design is already the best it can be..." If that was true, then why did Tom see fit for the development and production of the RT valve over the original A.I.R.?

AGD will always continue to develope new designs, if not they will definately fall behind in the Paintball industry. It is our duty as Forum members to aid Tom as much as possible. I know Tom doesnt have a large research team or anything, but by having a large opionative community online, we are enlargening his R&D department tenfold with the ideas of ACTUAL customers.

I am not in anyway an AGD hater, I have grown to lust (yes thats right... LUST) after their design. I prefer AGD's design of a gun with a fixed volume air chamber (another variable in the guns consistency) anyday over traditional guns with valve dwell. I have researched the dynamics of other guns (LP Spyders, Cockers, Electros) and chose the simplicity of the Mag over any other gun and instantly upgraded my LP SPyder and GF's LP SPyder to my Micro and GF's Minimag. I have never regret my decision even til today. I dont even regret my decision even with the horde of players here that tell me "Whyd you get a Mag? Dont you know their obsolete... you shoudlve gotten a cocker... (blah blah blah)"

So again, people keep an open mind, and Tom, great work on such a great gun! I simply cant wait to see what the future of AGD will do to again revolutionize the Paintball World!

-HyperSnyper

[shartley]

HyperSnyper,
You bring up some good points. But please keep in mind the demographic(s) of those posting here. You are bound to have “Yes” men in droves... No way around that. This is great from a marketing standpoint, but not always great from a product development position (as you have stated).

With this said, if someone other than Tom says "Just let Tom do the guess work, his design will always be the best", is that TOM saying it? And Tom NEVER does “guess work”... That is why his products are the quality they ARE. So take the comments for that they are worth (as with ANY comment you read on Message Boards).

I can assure you that Tom does listen. Tom is always looking to improve his product line, and increase its effectiveness (within the tolerances set forth by the industry). So I am sure HE does not take offense at your comments or suggestions.

People must remember however, that he will not DO everything people suggest (and sometimes for reasons you will NEVER KNOW, or need to), they should be posted in a rational and logical manner, and they should be things that benefit the MASSES and are suitable for large scale production. After all, there are great modifications that could be made that just would not be feasible for mass production. Tom does not run a “custom shop”.

So don’t feel that by posting suggestions or things contrary to what the crowd or Tom himself posts, that you will be shunned or FLAMED. If you notice, I don’t hold back contrary points of view either… and I am still here. Just do it in a mature manner (as you did with the post I am replying to), and it will be received well. There will always be those who don’t understand…. Such is life. The ones that matter WILL. And Tom does not live or die by “yes men”... Trust me on this one. LOL How far would this would be if noone went against the grain? You just have to do it RIGHT. ;)

[cphilip]

I agree with both of you on this. Tom needs differing opinions and not just gushing praise all the time (well...not that he minds it! :)) But it's helpfull to hear the other side sometimes. Don't be afraid to challenge things. He listens to it. Remember the laser graphic on the Intelliframe? He proposed two designs. The majority here said no design at all. At the risk that he wanted one of the two. Heck he might have even drawn them himself. I didn't know or care. So we said forget the designs so the intelliframe would be more neutral for anyones Marker. Presto! He took it. See?

[slayer]

Although I give my opinion a lot I believe that many people on this forum, including myself do not have the technical background or understanding to formulate educated and useful opinions on the more technical problems. Maybe I am wrong, and this forum is populated by machinists, tool and die makers, mechanical engineers, and fluid dynamic physicists, but I am just a senior computer engineer and can't say much. With that said, everyone can say whether they like how a marker looks, or how they think it would feel in their hands etc.

[AGD]

Well I bought this forum so i could listen to the players. As I stated in another post a day ago I do things based on what YOU tell me. You guys brought back the Z-grip, named the Intelliframe, put a Blade trigger on it too (thanks thats a hot seller). You reworked the side feed, and urged us on with the Superbolt. I almost can't think of anything you all HAVEN'T influenced dramatically.


AGD

[MajorDamage]

Most people will say "Let Tom do it" because other companies that make mag products (Benchmark, Shocktech, ANS, and others) dont do tests on their stuff thats up to AGD's standards. So knowing that they dont have high standards, I would go to the people who have been known to have high standards, and great customer support to back up their products. So when I go to get a new trigger frame what options do I consider? Just one: the Z-Grip. I bought this before the Intelliframe(and I never really cared for a .45 frame, and prefer the stock mag frame over a .45) and I went for a Z-Grip. I didnt even consider any of the other frames because I knew they would be a downgrade. I don't consider myself a "YesMan" but I do think thanx should be given where deserved. And AGD's products are made with very high standards, and are <B>very</B> nice products. Ive had a few problems with some of my equipment, and it was usualy either my fault, or the fault of another product(like my old crossfire tank). But AGD, or someone on this forum always helped me out. But I think most of us try to throw an idea or two in when we think of something that could help. Like I didnt vote in the Dye sticky grips VS hogues on the Intelliframe, because I didn't plan on buying an Intelliframe, and didn't think my opinion(if any) would help any with this. And I didn't vote on the 11 bps being to slow thing because I don't really know. I know some people will consider this to slow, but I know some will think its fine. I don't want to talk AGD out of something based on my opinion if its just my opinion(and if I don't think alot of other people have the same veiws on it) if I don't plan on purchasing it myself. I mean, if I say I think this looks better than that and you should do it how <B><I>I</I></B> like it, but I wont buy it, does that help? I don't think so, because in this situation I am not the consumer. I am more of a bystander. I don't plan on getting a new 11 bps setup because I am enjoy my ReTro valve, and I don't plan on getting an Intelliframe when I am completly satisfied with my Z-Grip. I hope this makes sence, if not just yell at me :).

ENDO!

[slayer]

Originally posted by AGD
Well I bought this forum so i could listen to the players. As I stated in another post a day ago I do things based on what YOU tell me. You guys brought back the Z-grip, named the Intelliframe, put a Blade trigger on it too (thanks thats a hot seller). You reworked the side feed, and urged us on with the Superbolt. I almost can't think of anything you all HAVEN'T influenced dramatically.


AGD

Well if you want our opinions then that is cool and I will continue to give them where I think I know what I am talking about :)

[Miscue]

Believe it or not, there are people who actually know what they are doing. If there weren't, I'd be paranoid everytime I stepped in an elevator, crossed a bridge, rode on a roller-coaster, flew in an airplane. This is my philosophy: Trust technology. Trust the engineers responsible for it.

Good engineers + the drive to make things great = something special. I think that drive is the more important. Airgun has this drive - you'd have to have your eyes closed to miss this.

[PowerFedMag]

Well, since we influence AGD, here's what I would like to influence!

-Lighter stock tigger pull
:cool:
-More accessible vert. bodies (i still dont kno where to get one)
:cool:
-chocolate covered bodies, fer when the playing slows down
:cool:
-V nubbins everywhere!
:cool:
-a bolt that isn't so mean to paintballs, forcing them to explode before they reaach barrel exit (maybe that's just my bad paint)
:cool:
-and of course ---- 1'in fore-grip extenders, or even .5'in
:cool:
-impossibly cheap intelliframes!
:cool:
oops, one more ---colored bodies, dark gun metal grey, copper, brass, dark green, etc...
;)

There you go good sirs. Please do not be offended if I ask the impossible...Which I am sure I did. But seriously I'd love to see all those things, cept the choclate bodies, put those on cockers on a hot day!

[DarkPhoenix]

I do not consider myself a yes man, I am a great admirer of fine quality products. I like the way AGD does their R&D, by listening to the people who actually use their products they are making great improvements.

Airgun Designs is doing a very good job. They are using all the resources that are available to them to make products that we like and the performance that we expect, at a reasonable price.

I am proud to call myself a member of this board, and am more than happy to help in any way I can.

[X-Plosive]

umm when did we bring back the z-grip?

[MajorDamage]

I think what he means is that we made the Z-Grip popular again.

ENDO!

[AGD]

My ToDo List:

Well, since we influence AGD, here's what I would like to influence!

-Lighter stock tigger pull ** happens with the retro valve


-More accessible vert. bodies (i still dont kno where to get one) *** Call us we sell them direct.

-chocolate covered bodies, fer when the playing slows down
**** TOO FATTENING!!!!!!
-V nubbins everywhere! *** plastic ones in testing, never fold over.


-a bolt that isn't so mean to paintballs, forcing them to explode before they reaach barrel exit (maybe that's just my bad
paint) *** Superbolt going into production

-and of course ---- 1'in fore-grip extenders, or even .5'in ** see aftermarket for these

-impossibly cheap intelliframes! ** The impossible takes a little longer....

oops, one more ---colored bodies, dark gun metal grey, copper, brass, dark green, etc... ** Aluminium bodies under developement.



How did I score!!???

AGD

[PowerFedMag]

ahhhh! the AGD pres. actually responded to me! ME!!!

*faints*:eek:

[Dubstar112]

Its these kind of threads that keep us in check

[PowerFedMag]

Vert bodies how much those go for?


*** Superbolt going into production - what are its attributes, will we have to buy them, or send in our old bolts?

1'in fore-grip extenders, or even .5'in ** see aftermarket for these ---AGD aftermarket?

** Aluminium bodies under developement. --will the cocker barrel stick out farther?? I like Mag barrel cuz they go like 2inches into body making barrel shorter externally.


Thanx

:cool:

[Miscue]

How about auto-targeting? :)

How about a Tom Kaye signature EMag? Laser-engraved signature... or put your face in as the jewel or something... :)

"AGD releases the most innovative paintball performance product to date - The THREE FINGER TRIGGER!"

[pumpamatic]

I felt the same way once, I guess it just seems ironic that all of Tom's products have hit the nail on the head with only 1 or 2 versions, he must do tons of research before he releases his product. But how bout 68 caliber candy? How about this: A hard candy shell with a gooey jelly fill? I wouldn't know whether to eat them or shoot them!

[Ground_zer0]

I have never liked all the standard vertical foregrips for the mag. I think agd needs to make a horizontal foregrip (yes i know i'm lazy, i just need to get down to work and convert my pump arm into one).
Speakin of that, Tom, you forgot to mention that you also released for sale the old pump kits after enough of the forums collective pleading.

Miscue, why do you need a 3 finger trigger when you can have have agd make a fingerless trigger. The gun fires on verbal command, or better yet an intellifeed cable attached to the users brain. :)

-Matt

[Magadeth]

:rolleyes: yea a wetwired emag with no trigger at all! Shoulder mounted like the alien in predator and it shoots 50 bps. that ought to keep tom busy for a month or two!:D

[gmag]

.....great thread. I agree with Hypersniper. And Tom...you scored well.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Hey Tom; any chance we could see a true revival of the Z-Grip, maybe with a nickel version and a blade trigger?

[Rich]

Originally posted by Miscue
How about auto-targeting? :)

Then I could play!!!! ;)

[mykroft]

PowerFedMag: KAPP makes a very nice foregrip extender, works like a charm.

What I would like to see is someone make a rail that's about 1" longer than stock, with the forgrip mount moved ahead by that inch.

Miscue: The Blade works fine as a 3-finger trigger.