So i just got off the phone with the DOJ lawyer...(SP Related)

[pbspectre]

he basically said if you can prove that SP aquired their patent fraudulently/deceptively, then there is probably grounds for a case against them under the Anti-Trust laws...

he seemed pretty open to the information and didn't shoot a bunch of legal-speak at me...i think more information needs to be compiled from various people and presented to the govt. in a professional manner, then things will start happening...unfortunately, a person can only understand so much information that is being related to them over the telephone, i believe if we could put together some kind of portfolio or something outlining the case against SP, containing the various patents in question(those that belong to SP and the others that contardict them) and statements from some industry leaders(Tom, Glen, etc) expessing their concerns to send to the DOJ, we'd have a much greater chance of getting something done...

the information is there folks, as is the opportunity for some real change...all we need to do is work together...

this isn't over...not by a long shot...


btw, Tom i've got the guy's contact info if you wanna talk to him...maybe you could relate things a bit better...

[jwalker87]

go pbspectre! Good luck acquiring all that information. I wish I could help. Smart Parts makes some good products, but this e-frame patent has to be stopped.

[Bolter]

if SP were going to do this they should have done it a looooooooong time ago. Its a bit late to pull that card really.

[BlackHalo]

I don't know if you got hold of him already, but he seems to have a lot of info about paintball related patents.

haveblue@airsoldier.com

[Kevmaster]

im no lawyer...but to PROVE they did it fraudulently...you'd need to have them testify against themselves...or have someone within SP/SP's lawyers testify agsinst them. What they did was approved by the Patent Office. They didn't, at first glance, view it as fraudulent. I'm guessing you're going to have an uphill battle proving they did it illegally.

[OysterBoy]

Just a thought, but maybe a sheet showing, chronologically, the advancements in paintball, and including various patents, and maybe starting with the Navys 'paintball gun'..

Just a thought.

[pbspectre]

if it can be proven that the technology was developed by someone else who put a patent on it (the Navy patent?), it could be shown that their patent is void...

that's all i'm really worried about trying to do...trying to get the patent investigated futher and possibly voided, thus making all their lawsuits groundless...

[DK1]

You could also say that it's a logical adaptation of exisiting technology, and it falls under "obvious" inventions. The concept was carried through in air guns before paintball was invented.

http://www.haveblue.org/tech/patents/US002845055.pdf

there's an air rifle from the 50's using electronics. It actually uses an electronic contact switch in the trigger, which was one of the things the navy patent didn't have. It's kinda hard to decipher, and you'd definately want to run it by someone who could make it all out, but it definately looks to be a gun in which the firing is controlled by a valve (which looks just like a regular sheridan valve) is opened by a large arm like thing which is moved by a solenoid. All controlled by the trigger switch.

To say that you "invented" a technology that has been used in very similar firing platforms for DECADES is a claim indeed.

DK1

[OysterBoy]

Ooops, hehe. Guy beat me to it.. ^

Heres a site chock full of patents which may or may not be useful:
http://airsoldier.com/~haveblue/tech/patents/

Good Luck

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Arent patents unaffected by patents filed by the military. I remember hearing that if the military has a patent and you have a patent for the same thing, you can still get it. So in a way military con-exsist with normal patents or something. Anyone understand what I mean? B/c I dont.

[steveo356]

i think this guy should have his picture in pb mags for combatting an industry tyrant

[mikebridge]

just need to get the expansion of their patent invalidated, don't need to go all that far

[doc_Zox]

i think this guy should have his picture in pb mags for combatting an industry tyrant

unfortunantly, that would cause the magazine to loose Smartparts as an advertiser

Smartparts buys alot of ad space, so the SP "issue" gets no coverage

[pbzmag]

unfortunantly, that would cause the magazine to loose Smartparts as an advertiser

Smartparts buys alot of ad space, so the SP "issue" gets no coverage

If that's one of the reasons why SP buys ad space, wouldn't that be against some type of anti-trust laws or other laws?

[abaez]

You could also say that it's a logical adaptation of exisiting technology, and it falls under "obvious" inventions. The concept was carried through in air guns before paintball was invented.

http://www.haveblue.org/tech/patents/US002845055.pdf

there's an air rifle from the 50's using electronics. It actually uses an electronic contact switch in the trigger, which was one of the things the navy patent didn't have. It's kinda hard to decipher, and you'd definately want to run it by someone who could make it all out, but it definately looks to be a gun in which the firing is controlled by a valve (which looks just like a regular sheridan valve) is opened by a large arm like thing which is moved by a solenoid. All controlled by the trigger switch.

To say that you "invented" a technology that has been used in very similar firing platforms for DECADES is a claim indeed.

DK1

This is what I was thinking.. kinda like how xerox became a verb and xerox sued some company who was using it in their name or something like that and the judge ruled that it became so commonplace it was public domain basically.. you'd have to prove that electros have come that far but it's possible

[mobius]

If that's one of the reasons why SP buys ad space, wouldn't that be against some type of anti-trust laws or other laws?

No. Smart Parts buys lots of ad space. As a result, the paintball mag does not run any information bashing Smart Parts or attempting to discredit that company or it's lawsuits. This is not due to an agreement with Smart Parts, it's simple common sense. If they bash their advertisers, the advertisers will take their money elsewhere, thus endangering the future of said publication.

[pbzmag]

No. Smart Parts buys lots of ad space. As a result, the paintball mag does not run any information bashing Smart Parts or attempting to discredit that company or it's lawsuits. This is not due to an agreement with Smart Parts, it's simple common sense. If they bash their advertisers, the advertisers will take their money elsewhere, thus endangering the future of said publication.

So if said pulblication did run articles about the pending lawsuits and SP did tell them to pull the article or they will pull all of their ads and/or file a lawsuit, wouldn't be that be blackmail? And isn't blackmail in the corporate world against the law?

[Magglerock]

the information is there folks, as is the opportunity for some real change...all we need to do is work together...

this isn't over...not by a long shot...

Actually, it is over, unless others in the industry devote some real resources and effort. This guy returned your call because he has to; from here on out, you probably won't ever talk to him again. I work in government, and have so for the last five years. When I was in Congress, we'd talk to anyone. What? You say aliens landed in your backyard? Sure, we'll take the call - once. After that, you'll get the blow-off. There has to be a compelling reason - a motivation - to get things moving. Right now, there isn't. There can be if the industry orginized a coalition and devoted some money to representation so that they can get to see the people who WILL make things happen. But the industry as a whole is to nascent; there just isn't that kind of capital floating around, and most would take a "free rider" opinion. If the industry were more professional, this whole mess would have never happened. Like them or not, SP IS behaving like a large corporation, and that's why they are winning. If the rest of the industry doesn't do something, they will UNDOUBTLY lose a tremendous amount of business and opportunity. Where do you think this sport is heading? It will only get bigger. The longer they wait, the larger SP gets, and the harder it will be to combat them. They may already be too late. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Remember a while back, when Tom asked if we would save an industry even if it cost a million dollars? My guess is that was the quote he got for fighting this thing. He chose not to. Time will tell if that was a wise decision.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

So if said pulblication did run articles about the pending lawsuits and SP did tell them to pull the article or they will pull all of their ads and/or file a lawsuit, wouldn't be that be blackmail? And isn't blackmail in the corporate world against the law?

It wouldn't be blackmail. Smart parts is not forced to advertize in a said magazine. If they feel the magazine give them a bad image, it's their RIGHT to take their ads out. They cannot file a lawsuit unless something was said that was untrue that was not an opinion. Blackmail would be like 'if you don't do this and that, we'll tell everybody that you killed that guy'

[mobius]

So if said pulblication did run articles about the pending lawsuits and SP did tell them to pull the article or they will pull all of their ads and/or file a lawsuit, wouldn't be that be blackmail? And isn't blackmail in the corporate world against the law?

That's not blackmail. That's big business. If you were a retailer who got bad press in a magazine, wouldn't you be inclined to pull your ads and spend the money elsewhere? Wouldn't you also be inclined to warn them that that is your plan if the bad press keeps up?

[magman#1]

dude you better watch out smart parts might have a contract out on your life.....

wouldn't surprise me if those bastards did, but keep fighting the good fight brother.

[pbspectre]

Actually, it is over, unless others in the industry devote some real resources and effort. This guy returned your call because he has to; from here on out, you probably won't ever talk to him again. I work in government, and have so for the last five years. When I was in Congress, we'd talk to anyone. What? You say aliens landed in your backyard? Sure, we'll take the call - once. After that, you'll get the blow-off. There has to be a compelling reason - a motivation - to get things moving. Right now, there isn't. There can be if the industry orginized a coalition and devoted some money to representation so that they can get to see the people who WILL make things happen. But the industry as a whole is to nascent; there just isn't that kind of capital floating around, and most would take a "free rider" opinion. If the industry were more professional, this whole mess would have never happened. Like them or not, SP IS behaving like a large corporation, and that's why they are winning. If the rest of the industry doesn't do something, they will UNDOUBTLY lose a tremendous amount of business and opportunity. Where do you think this sport is heading? It will only get bigger. The longer they wait, the larger SP gets, and the harder it will be to combat them. They may already be too late. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Remember a while back, when Tom asked if we would save an industry even if it cost a million dollars? My guess is that was the quote he got for fighting this thing. He chose not to. Time will tell if that was a wise decision.

so the facts that:

A - it's an election year

B- we are still in a recession

C - many American small businesses are in danger

D - the loss of these small companies will nearly guarantee the dominence of companies who import their products (Kingman and Brass Eagle) and stifle competition

are not compelling reasons??? like i said, i think a visual representation of the situation would have a much bigger effect than me inadequately describing the situation over the telephone...

[pbspectre]

here's an interesting piece of info i just got:


From Leon Styles, Owner of PGI Paintguns makers of the Osiris cocker:

we have looked long and hard at their patent, if you look closely at the drawings and how they state it works, it shows it firing from and open bolt, as any paintballer knows all markers fire from a closed bolt, under patent law it must work as shown or the patent is void

sound right to anyone?

[firebanex]

huh it does make sence... all markers "shoot" the ball in a forward position when the air is realesed...

[bunker17]

Guys does anyone know if SP has paintball.com un their budget ???? because for some reason their articles about SP seem like praises and worship instead of a neutral review.
for example this:
http://paintball.com/features/story.cfm?placementID=3037&clickon=NewsS

[marfish]

So, let me get this straight; SP pulls their advertizing from any and all publications that give them bad press........cool. No more advertising, No more new customers, no more SP. ;)
I wish it were that simple. They need to advertise in order to entice young minds. They may raise a stink about bad press but they can't afford to NOT advertise. Since they seem to be in the driver's seat on this they can afford to wait it out.