RT.....One shot, one kill?

[Daniel Morse]

Due to the physics of the RT shooting more consistent, hence more accurate, at faster rates of fire (please don't argue that point, it is a fact), I believe that the RT is not good at quick single shot snap shots. Therefore it is probably better as a back players gun than a front mans gun. Only because of the inaccuracy of the first shot out of the barrel. The second and third shot is as accurate as can be, but sometimes you need that single shot to pick somebody off who just happened to be sticking out of the bunker. As a back players gun it can lay long streams of paint accurately. What do you guys think? If you do not have experience with the RT or experience snap shooting the RT please don't respond. :confused: :confused:

[DarkPhoenix]

Daniel, I have experience with the RT Pro, indeed it is the only one out of my four which I will use during a paintball game.

As the temperature of a compressed gas decreases, so does the pressure. The reason why we chrono all RT/RT Pro/Retro/E-mag valves a special way is because during a string of shots the air in the valve is not allowed to cool, and thusly, retains a higher pressure. If we chronoed these guns in the same way as any other, the first shot would be fine but if you fired a string you run the risk of shooting hot, a definite safety risk.

I play no set position, I usually keep myself in a fire support role. However, I do like to provide fire support from the front line, I like and use, the "one shot, one kill" policy when I am not in fire control "mode", if you will. I have no problems on first shot because I am usually shooting at a target that is close enough for me to use the "one-shot, one-kill" protocol, otherwise I would use a three shot burst at longer ranges.

I do not believe in bunkering, it is painful, but sometimes necessary. I believe in the surrender policy, but once again, I digress....

[a_malfunction]

Well, my RT is plenty accurate on the first shot..... been playing with it for about a year now..... havent noticed anything amiss with the first shot.... In fact, I put a sticker on my tank that says "one shot, one kill"

[Puckz]

The gun definitely shoots farther as you shoot faster but you have to remember that accuracy has to do with the person behind the gun.

I know how my gun shoots and adjust for it. Never have a problem snap shooting anyone...

[Daniel Morse]

A way to get around the RT first shot shortfall is if you find yourself in a snapshooting instance with a player from the other team, just keep the trigger depressed in between snapshots. So when you snap your next shot the gas will be hot and ready to fire. How does that sound? I have got to try that.

Also, can somebody answer why the RT's first shot is cold and the other markers do not have that problem? What is it about the RT that makes the gas warm up as you hold down the trigger? Do other guns do this?

[Potatoboy]

Holding the trigger doesn't heat the gas up, it doesn't allow gas to fill up the air chamber. Since the RT recharges so fast, the speed of the gas entering the chamber actually heats it up. That's why it's hot, and when a gas is hot it has a higher pressure with less volume, if you do not fire and let the gas cool down, since the volume stays the same, and the temperature decreases, the pressure decreases. That's why the first shot is at a lower velocity.

[AGD]

Remarkable accuracy on this thread, I see we did something right on getting this info out.

I need to add something here. Your first shot is the same as any other gun mag or otherwise that has a volume at a pressure in the chamber. So you take any old gun including the RT and crono it one shot at a time and it's at 280. You shoot these guns in a game and the first shot is .... 280. Most other guns under rapid fire loose velocity so they get drop off, there may be exceptions but I am just making the point. So rapid fire shots go down in velocity where the RT goes up. So in reality the RT doesn't have a weak first shot is has the SAME first shot as any other gun. Only under rapid fire does the heating effect come into play and the velocity increases slightly. There is really no excuse for you not to be able to snap shoot one shot. you only have to compensate for the additional range when you get into a string, not for a single shot. Add to that the heating effect is controlled by how much pressure you put into the gun. Put 600 psi in and you get the exact same characteristics as a regular mag.

AGD

[Potatoboy]

Thanks Tom, I'm the type of guy that started quoting gas laws when that was described in the RT video. The reason I said the first shot would be a little low is I always chrono using the standard RT procedure to simulate rapid fire. I don't want hot shots even in recball.

See this link (http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/GasLaw/Gas-Gay-Lussac.html) for the law that this question applies to.

[Daniel Morse]

Does the fps go up in long strings of shooting as you increase the input psi from 600 to 800 psi. Or is it basically the same climb in fps? I thought you will get drop off at an input of 600 psi. What causes the RT to climb in fps when other guns drop off?

[a_malfunction]

Daniel, the RT gets "shoot-up" because the valve recharges so fast, it heats up. This extra heat causes the pressure in the valve to rise. higher pressure, higher velocity. At least i think.... :)

[shartley]

What causes the RT to climb in fps when other guns drop off?
Below is what Tom wrote, I think he answered that already in conjunction with PotatoBoy's post:


Remarkable accuracy on this thread, I see we did something right on getting this info out.

I need to add something here. Your first shot is the same as any other gun mag or otherwise that has a volume at a pressure in the chamber. So you take any old gun including the RT and crono it one shot at a time and it's at 280. You shoot these guns in a game and the first shot is .... 280. Most other guns under rapid fire loose velocity so they get drop off, there may be exceptions but I am just making the point. So rapid fire shots go down in velocity where the RT goes up. So in reality the RT doesn't have a weak first shot is has the SAME first shot as any other gun. Only under rapid fire does the heating effect come into play and the velocity increases slightly. There is really no excuse for you not to be able to snap shoot one shot. you only have to compensate for the additional range when you get into a string, not for a single shot. Add to that the heating effect is controlled by how much pressure you put into the gun. Put 600 psi in and you get the exact same characteristics as a regular mag.

AGD
And from PotatoBoy:

Holding the trigger doesn't heat the gas up, it doesn't allow gas to fill up the air chamber. Since the RT recharges so fast, the speed of the gas entering the chamber actually heats it up. That's why it's hot, and when a gas is hot it has a higher pressure with less volume, if you do not fire and let the gas cool down, since the volume stays the same, and the temperature decreases, the pressure decreases. That's why the first shot is at a lower velocity.

The hotter the gas, the more pressure. The faster you shoot, the hotter the gas. The hotter the gas, the more pressure. The more pressure, the more FPS. HEY! I see a pattern here. :)

As for the 600 to 800 psi issue, I would think that a regulator would only allow certain levels no matter how much psi you put in. But they should have a minimum optimal working psi? I am not a tech, so maybe one of the Airsmiths could touch on this a bit better?

I hope this helps in some way. :)

[Dubstar112]

is it possible to shoot fast enough to get the air to vent out of the saftey hole?