Any word on the mill over at Logic?

[punkncat]

Last I talked to Ryan , the control for his mill was down. He was expecting about a 2 week down time to be milling again. Is there any word on the situation?
I have some parts with him and it would be nice to know if the line is moving again. Not that I am rushing him or anything , just wanted to know.

[yeahthatsme]

wouldnt this be better suited for a PM instead of a post?

[Digits]

haha if your ordering from logic you better set a few months aside..

no offense but there not known for being speedy

[AGDlover]

ya the last time i talked to him he said he thought he was going to stop milling and doing custom stuff

[GT]

no offense but there not known for being speedy


who is in this buisness that doesnt sell pre-fab crap?

[Digits]

huh??

You could put up for Ryan all you want.. Fact is they are crap for turn around time.. Everyone knows this.. Alot of people are just to scared to say anything though

[punkncat]

wouldnt this be better suited for a PM instead of a post?

I didn't want to bother Ryan if someone else already knew something about it.


haha if your ordering from logic you better set a few months aside..
just like I told him I am in no hurry. My x valve is in my wifes marker, so I can still use it if I like. I am using my sweet Freeflow cocker in the meantime , and by the time I get it back it will be like a new marker to me , and quell my rabid gun whoring for a minute.

[hAppy]

you should know that logic is a very very slow guy, it took 4 moths to get my friend's logic frame, after he has paid

honestly, i think "a broken mill" is makeup time

[warbeak2099]

Yea they're pretty slow. It took Ryan a month and 2 weeks after he recieved my MO to get my rt custom done. He found a blemish on the alpha rail and had to send it back to get re'annoed. He just shipped it out this Monday and I still haven't gotten it. I should get it tomorrow though... if I don't I'm going to start getting worried. I know he's a good guy though and makes good quality stuff. I have no problem waiting, but when it gets in the way of my playing time... grrrrrr. Then again, quality takes time. And from what I've seen on this forum, Ryan sure does put out a whole lotta quality.

[GT]

I think you guys ned to do alittle more reading on AO. Even companies like AGD have set backs that are out of thier control.

when you are dealing with a custom shop expect a long wait, that is how it is.

If you dont want the best there is a spyder hanging on the wall of your local wal mart with your name on it....

[Jon/xpm]

Products take time to make...
Loook how long it took for people to get x-mags

[CoolHand]

How about an official update, eh?

The card rack was in New York all this week (Buffalo to be exact), but I got a call today from the nice fellows a Visimetrics (HappyAzn, give em a call if you want, tell them Ryan from Logic said it was OK to give you a statis report) who told me that they were done - the new control was installed in the rack, and it was heading back to me. Should have it in hand by the end of next week, add three or four days for installation and troubleshooting, and we will be rolling again (but as a disclaimer - it could be a whole year too :p ).

Honestly, I owe a few vert frames, and Mr Punkncat's rail, and then I will be caught up. After they are done, I will have no one waiting on me. I stopped taking vert frame orders (until I have some in stock) over a month ago, so there will be no more backorders. However, if you want custom work done, you gonna wait for it, plain and simple.

I don't know where people got the idea that a one off custom job should have no more than a week turn around, including shipping, but they are simply not living in reality.

All machine work on customer parts will be done on a "When I can squeeze it in" basis only, from now on. There is simply not enough money in the rail modifications, and other random stuff to warrant pushing off vert frames, and other production parts to meet a two week turn around. To replace this, I will start stocking the sculpted RTP rails in Gloss Black, and raw.

Also, I am getting extreamly tired of my every move being nitpicked by people who act as though everything I say is a lie, aimed at keeping them from knowing exactly what is going on in my shop. This is not a democracy, it is my business, it is my time, and I will do with it as I please. I don't have to justify every action I take, nor do I have to explain them. I do so as a courtise to my customers, and to AO in general (as I used to expect the folks here to understand why things have to be done a certain way), but in no way does this imply that I am asking for advice, or seeking approval.

I have offered refunds to everyone who is waiting on a vert frame, only one took it, but I am constantly hearing about me holding people's money hostage, while delivering no product. That would only be true if I refused to give it back (their money). So to those who think I would go to all the trouble of making up this control crash to keep you from getting your frames - Get over yourselves, and either wait it out like men, or get a refund.

Now I know this rant was a bit misplaced, but I figured it would get seen here as well as anywhere else. Also, Punkncat, this is not directed at you in any way, you are a most patient fellow. For the most part, I've had many excellent and easy to get along with customers, but the random hot heads, or people who can't be pleased, or who haven't even done business with me but sing of my faults, make me so angry sometimes. Its almost enough to make a man want to throw in the towel and take up knitting.

Just to clarify one last time - I have been slow in the past, but now there will be no more excessive waiting, as I will not sell what I don't have in stock. Custom stuff will likely still be slow, but since its paid for by how long I work on it, not how long I have it at the shop, it will come out the same. ;) And, to make sure I don't miss my own deadlines, I will no longer be telling anyone when I want to have things done by, lol :D

Later

[SpecialBlend2786]

.........well said. Hopefully I have enough money by the time the new vert frames are in :)

(or untill Rogue starts selling 'em ;) )

[tyrion2323]

huh??

You could put up for Ryan all you want.. Fact is they are crap for turn around time.. Everyone knows this.. Alot of people are just to scared to say anything though

Hrmm...Negatory.

Ryan got my logic-framed mag to me extremely quickly, and he was in contact with me the whole time. My frame came in perfect condition and working wonderfully. Of course, I knew that a custom-made vert frame wouldn't be an immediate turn-around. Unlike some dealers here, Ryan doesn't mass-produce his stuff. He takes the order and custom-mills each piece for the customer. You can get whatever color you'd like, and he'll even dye your grip. He's also not a marketing-oriented guy like some dealers here. He doesn't push his products, and he's certainly not rude or snitty.

But, then again, some of us don't care if it takes a week longer when we know that we're getting the best. And no, I'm not too scared to say anything. In fact, it took me longer to decide what I wanted than for Ryan to get the mag to me.

[Muzikman]

This is a problem with ALL custom shops. Even the best, most respected shops around take a LONG time to do custom work. It's nature. If you send something in to get custom work done...I am being serious...do not have a set date you need it back by...unless it's 2 years away.

[tyrion2323]

Well said.

[LockNLoad]

Hrmm...Negatory.

Ryan got my logic-framed mag to me extremely quickly, and he was in contact with me the whole time. My frame came in perfect condition and working wonderfully. Of course, I knew that a custom-made vert frame wouldn't be an immediate turn-around. Unlike some dealers here, Ryan doesn't mass-produce his stuff. He takes the order and custom-mills each piece for the customer. You can get whatever color you'd like, and he'll even dye your grip. He's also not a marketing-oriented guy like some dealers here. He doesn't push his products, and he's certainly not rude or snitty.

But, then again, some of us don't care if it takes a week longer when we know that we're getting the best. And no, I'm not too scared to say anything. In fact, it took me longer to decide what I wanted than for Ryan to get the mag to me.

Do you actually know what you are talking about, or are you just brown-nosing?

Of course he mass-produces them.

[CoolHand]

Do you actually know what you are talking about, or are you just brown-nosing?

Of course he mass-produces them.

That's of course depends on your definition of "Mass Production"

When AGD has stuff made, its done in hundreds of pieces per batch.

When I do a batch of parts, its 15-25, at least an order of magnitude difference.

And lay off the guy, he bought a frame from me when we really were doing them as people ordered them. The demand has grown, so the production methods have followed suit.

I love how people automatically assume that mass production = no work, I just come in to the shop in the morning, turn on the lights, and parts just start to fly out of the machine, with me just having to pick them up and stack them in their boxes. That's not how it works, no matter how much I would like that to be the case.

If anything, mass production = more work, and a whole lot more money on the line.

I have a distinct feeling that most (if not all) of you guys who are on my case, are WAY out of your depths when it comes to anything even remotely related to manufacturing, yet you continue to snipe and dig as though you knew EXACTLY what needed to happen behind the scenes.

Please give the back seat keyboarding a rest, you're giving me a headache.

[dansim]

do you even know what your talking about? i belive he is far from mass producing them if he was he wouldnt have such a turn around time as there would be many machines doing many grips at anyone givin time, now back under that rock you crawled out from

[GT]

I have a distinct feeling that most (if not all) of you guys who are on my case, are WAY out of your depths when it comes to anything even remotely related to manufacturing, yet you continue to snipe and dig as though you knew EXACTLY what needed to happen behind the scenes.

Please give the back seat keyboarding a rest, you're giving me a headache.


Get'm Ryan!

This, unfortunately, is the bad side of AO. DO you guys think that other people on AO would love to produce their own product, and become discouraged by some of the posts in this thread?

Stuff happens, deal with it. Would you rather wait 3-4 months for a custom grip frame or not have one at all?

You guys need to get off your high horse and contact Ryan DIRECTLY if you want something done. He is a standup guy and a great dealer.

AO is very fortunate to have people like this making products FOR US, at what I can guess is only minimal profit given the time they spend on developing a product that has to have such high tolerances.

How many other owners groups have their own dealership network. N=1, AO


GT

[Dryden]

Against my better judgement, I'm going to wade into this quagmire and pitch in my two cents.

I don't know Ryan, but I think it would be in everyone's best interest to cut him a little slack. As he stated, he made a couple of errors in judgement in the past of selling products he hadn't yet milled, and he's taken measures to correct that. Purchasers whose items were delayed were offered the opportunity at a refund and an explanation for the problem, it wasn't as if CoolHand scammed hundreds of AO users for tens of thousands of dollars and fled, so don't treat him as such. Unfortunately, the Internet being what it is, his less successful transactions are just as public as the successful ones - and of course, anyone who has ever run their own business knows that the unhappy customers are 10x more vocal than the content ones.

In particular, I'm appalled at the number of individuals who seem to stalk AO vendors around and post "Do Not Buy" warnings in every thread the vendor has contributed to.

In any event, it doesn't do anyone any amount of good to prematurely voice their complaints or simply parrot others' complaints to this forum. If you were a party to the transaction, than you have a legitimate case to state your opinion in the appropriate forum. If not, then remember what momma always told you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Derivisive comments regarding ANY AO vendor, whether it's Ryan, Shawn, Sam, Tuna, Doc, Colin and even AGD itself (himself?), don't help. Production problems do occur. Suppliers don't deliver parts on time. Machines do break down. Packages do actually get lost in the mail. Honest people do sometimes make mistakes. Whatever, it's a businesses reality, deal with it. I've never read a post by ANY of the vendors above promising next day delivery, or even 7 day delivery for that matter, so I don't understand what some customers expect or complain about when they order a custom product thats produced in limited quantity.

In fact, I really can't understand why some of these vendors don't just throw up their hands and scream "Screw It!" and just take their business over to PBN to make products for Timmies.

What I can say, without question and with authority, is that since about 2002, the number of aftermarket accessories and choices available to me for my Automag has darn near quadrupled. When I bought my first Mag, my choices were beadblast or polished, Mini or Classic, Crownpoint or nothing, and Powerfeed or Standard. That's about it. Thanks to the vendors above, plus a half dozen other companies over the last 10+ years, I've got choices now. Hundreds of choices.

Lay off. If I lose the choice between a Logic frame or a Rogue frame because some inconsiderate posts here induced Ryan or Shawn to give up, you'll be hearing from me as well as - I think - the bulk of the rationally thinking AO Army.

Every vendor I listed above, and many others on this forum who I didn't explicitly name, either have had, currently have, or will eventually have problems meeting the demand for their products. This my friends, isn't a bad thing!!!

I'm all for constructive criticism, but this thread has hardly been constructive.

- Rich B

[tyrion2323]

Do you actually know what you are talking about, or are you just brown-nosing?

Of course he mass-produces them.

So I'm just brown-nosing when I stand up to criticism about a good dealer? If people have a problem with Ryan's work, then email him. Don't bring it to the forums and tarnish his good name. He does phenomenal work. I don't think that I'm "brown-nosing" when I state that.

When I state that he doesn't mass-produce his pieces, I mean that he doesn't pump 'em out and then sell them. Some dealers here offer their products in only a single or a few choices of color. Ryan will anodize your frame to any color if you want. So yes, it takes more time than, say, buying a rogue rail or something. That isn't saying that Rogue's stuff isn't good (from what I hear, it's great), it's just a different type of production.

So lay off Logic, unless you decide to buy a mill and pump out your own vert frame....

[Mossman]

I can vouch for Ryan, his stuff rocks and is well worth the wait, and if he says your stuff will be done on tuesday and ship wednesday, it will. If you don't wanna wait 2 months for that wednesday to come then you don't deserve his super hot custom stuff...that's all :D

[logamus]

ryan's vert frame is fantastic and worth whatever wait. ryan, keep your chin up, people female dogged about agd taking so long on the xmag too, but most agree that it is certainly worth the wait.

[punkncat]

Thanks for the word Ryan. I really am in no hurry and I am glad that you are aware that I am willing to wait as long as it takes you. I have worked in production with a mill. I realize that issues come up , tools go down , and things that are good are worth waiting for.
To all the naysayers....yall know where y'all can take that crap...over to PBN or something. This post wasn't about slamming Logic , it was just to satisfy my curiosity.
Once again , thanks Ryan , you have my support and patience. Thanks a bunch.

[Z-man]

I was very satisfied with Ryan's work. And if I had to say anything I would suggest that there are 2 camps on AO and one of them is looking for a fight...

If you want to attack a guys integrity, at least have the decency to PM him your thoughts and not publicly make rude comments. It's not the AO I come to read about.

[the larch]

hmm,
Not to be flamed or such, but, a forum is a place were opinions, (both sides) are allowed. Looking back on this thread, I don't see anything particularly ugly being directed at Logic. He himself, has said that he is changing how he does work because of past problems. He HAS had them. He acknowledges this. People who have had to wait past several deadlines are quite justified to inform people about their experiences.
Good and bad experiences should be posted on forums like this. In this format, people who are new to custom work, may learn what is involved, and the waits they may expect.

Consider that next time you order a pizza delivery that:
1. It is made absolutely custom to your order.
2. There are several inventory items required to make it
3. There are several machines necessary to get it to your door.
4. It has to be brought through uncertain traffic to get to you.
5. There are several other custom orders awaiting their delivery to other customers just as important as you

Taking all this into account, it is still NOT ok with you if it takes 3 times longer than you were quoted to arrive. If the pizza took that long, even if it is the best in the market, you are justified in telling people it took three times longer to get to you.

BTW
Forum is defined as:
1. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
2. A public meeting place for open discussion.
3. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.


A forum IS NOT a place were everyone agrees that everything is hunky dory all the time. It is a place for OPEN discussion.

[tyrion2323]

The only flame-comments that I see are the ones that state "people are too afraid" and the comment that I was "brown-nosing."

Just as people should be allowed to talk about negative experiences, so should we be allowed to voice positive ones...

[atm743]

to me i can wait a long time for custom made products. i love he's stuff i got one of his alpha rails and i love them. my frend got a logic frame and i like them to. i was think in getting one but i will do that after i get bored with my y. hes a very very great guy to do buissness with. every one makes mistakes soo dont get mad if his stuff is backed orders. to me you should wait for custom made stuff.! to me thats what makes it custom:D keep on making sum allsome parts ryan!!!!

[spacedtedybear]

I'm looking forward to the new frames. I think he should do something a little more special to the 8 that got left behind on that last batch. Like milling a doodle of an octopus giving you the finger 8 times somewhere on the frame. ( Yes thats from RvB). :D It's getting harder and harder to wait, seeing that my marker in pieces, and the fact that finals are almost over.

[GT]

hmm,

Consider that next time you order a pizza delivery that:




Wisky Tango Foxtrot, WTF are you talking about. CNC'ing custom made parts has little to do with pizzA. For one papa johns doesnt rely on single vendors, anno guys, to hold up on the tomato production or extra spicey cheese shipment. I think you fail to realize the complexity of the situation..


A forum IS NOT a place were everyone agrees that everything is hunky dory all the time. It is a place for OPEN discussion.

You bet,
however it must be truthful discussion. Hearing something from someone who heard it from someone else that happened at a field along time ago.... Is totaly different than first hand experience ( which I have with Logic).

Playing the invisible customer game makes it impossible for Logic to amend any ill will. Like I said before for the reading chanallenged : If you have a problem with the man take it up with the man

[the larch]

No, gtrsi, I certainly do understand the complexity of the process. My analogy points out the unseen complexity of something as simple as pizza delivery and how it is taken for granted.
Also, it is disturbing that you think that negative comments about a service are "untruthful" by the fact that they may be different than the experience you had. You assume the negative comments are at best second hand, when you don't have any idea what experience the posters may have had with the vendor. You yourself, then, are guilty of taking second hand assumed information and posting negatively about it on an open forum. ;)

BTW, please don't disparage pizza makers. :)

[CoolHand]

Consider that next time you order a pizza delivery that:
1. It is made absolutely custom to your order.
2. There are several inventory items required to make it
3. There are several machines necessary to get it to your door.
4. It has to be brought through uncertain traffic to get to you.
5. There are several other custom orders awaiting their delivery to other customers just as important as you


That would be a good analogy, if I were only ASSEMBLING things (like AGD for example), but since we start with barstock, and send finished parts out the door, you'd need to change it some.

1) You start with a pile of harvested wheat, which must be ground into flour.
2) We also have three hogs which have just been slaughtered, from which you must now make pepperoni and sausage.
3)We have a well, but you must install a pump before you can get any water out.
4)We have a garden with herbs and tomatoes, which you must harvest and turn into sauce.
5)You cannot start any of this until the customer places the order.
6)The customer still wants the pizza in 30 mins or less though.
7) Certain customers may order a personal pan pizza (cheapest thing on the menu), demand its delivery when they want it, and complain on a public forum when you could not deliver on time and refunded their money, while still delivering the pizza, and another pizza kit, so they could have another one when they got home.

You will then be criticised by hundreds of random people. You will have to defend yourself, and your pizza making skills, every day against some of the stupidest analogys you could ever concieve of, all the while trying to squeeze in some pizza making (if your oven isn't borken that is) and maintain a polite attitued.

I have spent more time trying to sooth your ruffled feathers over a $15 ano job than I ever have on a guy who was buying a $1300 marker. Get over yourself. You got your part back (ano'ed the color you wanted), you got your money back, and you got a new part to boot. I lost over a hundred dollars trying to satisfy you, but I will spend no more time or money.

You want to contine stalking me over a $15 transaction gone bad? Fine. Two can play that game. I will now follow you all around, and warn every person you try to do business with, that you are hot tempered, impossible to please, and arguably imbalanced. That'll be fun won't it? :cool:

[1stdeadeye]

You want to contine stalking me over a $15 transaction gone bad? Fine. Two can play that game. I will now follow you all around, and warn every person you try to do business with, that you are hot tempered, impossible to please, and arguably imbalanced. That'll be fun won't it? :cool:

Turn about is fair play! :D

[Digits]

I think you guys ned to do alittle more reading on AO. Even companies like AGD have set backs that are out of thier control.

when you are dealing with a custom shop expect a long wait, that is how it is.

If you dont want the best there is a spyder hanging on the wall of your local wal mart with your name on it....

kind of but not really..

Just because it's custom or slow doesn't mean it's the best there is.. Xmags.. Are allright guns.. But for the price you could have a DM4 or an alias.. IMO those are better guns.. But I guess its all personal preference.. But slow does not necisarelly mean better

[Dryden]

The pizza analogy doesn't equate to this forum in the fact that AO is also the storefront for the vendors. As I said, if you've had a transaction that you don't feel was handled appropriately, then fine, post your opinions in the feedback section. It isn't necessary to stalk AO vendors to every thread and repeat your opinions over and over again.

Using that pizza analogy, if Papa Johns does take an hour-and-a-half to deliver my pizza when I've been told it would only take 30 minutes, you bet I'm a little preturbed about it. And I might - just might - make an offhanded comment to my friends that Papa Johns was slow last Thursday. I do not however, drive over to Papa Johns, stand at the counter, and tell every customer who walks in to go to Dominos because Papa Johns always take three times as long as they promise to get an order out.

And for the record, my father owned a pizza shop for 15 years. I worked in it from the time I was 14 until I was 19, before moving to work in his liquor carry-out. Making a pie isn't anywhere near as difficult as milling a part. The analogy is asinine.

[AGDlover]

I do not however, drive over to Papa Johns, stand at the counter, and tell every customer who walks in to go to Dominos because Papa Johns always take three times as long as they promise to get an order out


ahahahahahahahahhaa

[the larch]

In actuality, I've never once mentioned your name in this thread in a hostile way.
Nor have I been aggressive. I have not threatened anyone in any way. I don't believe I have even mentioned any transaction that has happened between us either.
Anyone who feels Logic may be justified in his accusation that I am stalking him may feel free to look at my posts since I have joined, in this, or any other forum. I've never actively flamed anyone anywhere.
On the other hand, if a person posts in an OPEN forum asking for opinions other people have about a product, or a business, I CERTAINLY have a right to post an experience as long as it isn't openly hostile, or ugly, (ie. definition of forum.)
I apologize that I dared to compare the industry of pizza delivery with custom paintball work. Don't look down your nose at the pizza delivery business though. Doing it right is a little more complicated than you might appreciate.
BTW, here is my feedback thread:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1357177#post1357177
I link every transaction I have on AO to this. If you feel I have truly "stalked you" and am a horrible trader, Please feel free to post that. I personally have no problem with how I deal with every single transaction I make.
BTW, I notice you never posted a feedback thread of your own here. :)

[LockNLoad]

In actuality, I've never once mentioned your name in this thread in a hostile way.
Nor have I been aggressive. I have not threatened anyone in any way. I don't believe I have even mentioned any transaction that has happened between us either.
Anyone who feels Logic may be justified in his accusation that I am stalking him may feel free to look at my posts since I have joined, in this, or any other forum. I've never actively flamed anyone anywhere.
On the other hand, if a person posts in an OPEN forum asking for opinions other people have about a product, or a business, I CERTAINLY have a right to post an experience as long as it isn't openly hostile, or ugly, (ie. definition of forum.)
I apologize that I dared to compare the industry of pizza delivery with custom paintball work. Don't look down your nose at the pizza delivery business though. Doing it right is a little more complicated than you might appreciate.
BTW, here is my feedback thread:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1357177#post1357177
I link every transaction I have on AO to this. If you feel I have truly "stalked you" and am a horrible trader, Please feel free to post that. I personally have no problem with how I deal with every single transaction I make.
BTW, I notice you never posted a feedback thread of your own here. :)

You're not the only one Larch. It's too bad you are being singled out.

There was another post about almost this same thing a week ago started by "trex". If I could find it I would, but I think it was deleted somehow.

I guess anyone who has a bad experience is now a stalker.

[CoolHand]

. . . . . It's too bad you are being singled out. . . . . . . .

I am singling him out, because he was the worst case I have had to deal with.

The fellow TRex of which you spoke, got a little excited, and over reacted. We worked it out, and after he cooled off a little, he realized that, deleted his thread himself, and apologized to me. Our tangle ended well, for both of us, and we moved on.

What makes Larch outstanding is the fact that he still thinks his outrage and general abusivness was totally justified (as he has stated on more than one ocassion), and thusly continues to parrot the bad, while never telling people that I spent over a hundred bucks ($100+) trying to make him happy. I refunded his money, paid to have his part reano'ed (twice), then bought him a new one as well as returning the successfully (finally) colored original part. The only thing I had left to do was buy him a whole new marker (to make up for botched ano on a 15 deg ASA), which I doubt would have made any difference.

Not everyone is a stalker, just him. :D lol <--- This is a joke. In reality, anyone who disagrees with me is, in fact, a stalker. :rolleyes:

[arsonpaintball06]

Just to put sum water on this fire........any clue when u will be gettin more vert frames in coolhand? (im sure its posted sumwhere, i looked.......but it was late and i was lazy lol ........so figured id just ask :)

P.S.

i dont mind waiting for a quality product.....unlike sum :D ( ehh so maybe i fed to the fire too a little bit)

[dansim]

That would be a good analogy, if I were only ASSEMBLING things (like AGD for example), but since we start with barstock, and send finished parts out the door, you'd need to change it some.

1) You start with a pile of harvested wheat, which must be ground into flour.
2) We also have three hogs which have just been slaughtered, from which you must now make pepperoni and sausage.
3)We have a well, but you must install a pump before you can get any water out.
4)We have a garden with herbs and tomatoes, which you must harvest and turn into sauce.
5)You cannot start any of this until the customer places the order.
6)The customer still wants the pizza in 30 mins or less though.
7) Certain customers may order a personal pan pizza (cheapest thing on the menu), demand its delivery when they want it, and complain on a public forum when you could not deliver on time and refunded their money, while still delivering the pizza, and another pizza kit, so they could have another one when they got home.

You will then be criticised by hundreds of random people. You will have to defend yourself, and your pizza making skills, every day against some of the stupidest analogys you could ever concieve of, all the while trying to squeeze in some pizza making (if your oven isn't borken that is) and maintain a polite attitued.

I have spent more time trying to sooth your ruffled feathers over a $15 ano job than I ever have on a guy who was buying a $1300 marker. Get over yourself. You got your part back (ano'ed the color you wanted), you got your money back, and you got a new part to boot. I lost over a hundred dollars trying to satisfy you, but I will spend no more time or money.

You want to contine stalking me over a $15 transaction gone bad? Fine. Two can play that game. I will now follow you all around, and warn every person you try to do business with, that you are hot tempered, impossible to please, and arguably imbalanced. That'll be fun won't it? :cool:

Larch i belvie coolhand just made you his b*tch

[dj89]

i have a milled rail and vert frame......




















and i love them the wait was werth it ;) thats all i need to say keep up the great work man :cool:

[melster]

What is this? Several people gave their feedback as to their experiences with CH, and you guys are jumping on them and beating them up about it? No one here has called CH bad names or LIED about anything. So why are you trying to surpress them? I would think it was a GOOD thing for people to warn others of their own unsatisfactory experience.

Here's my experience:
Great product (vert frame), smooth as butter. Exacting tolerances, and no play whatsoever. However, the frame was a little too thick where the grip frame retaining screw in the trigger guard is. The original screw was too short to grip the ULE body. I had to use one of the drop screws CH provided to secure the frame to my rail/body.

As for the turn around time, I think it's all been said before. Logic Paintball is slooooooow. It doesn't mean you won't get it eventually or that CH is going to try and screw you. It means you'd better not hold your breath or sell off your existing frame hoping that you'll get it in a week. This problem goes away now that CH isn't selling the frames until they come in stock.

I never felt that I was in danger of being ripped off. However, I was frustrated with delays, and as a consumer, I feel that it's my right to ***** and complain about it. When I got my frame, I was ecstatic, but I would certainly think twice about ever purchasing it if I knew it would take so long.

Hence, if I had had the benefit of reading what some of these unsatisfied customers had to say, I would've saved myself time, money and aggravation. So I say: let these people speak! If you've done business with CH, then let your good opinions of his service come to the front as well. Don't try to be the opinion police.

[GT]

Also, it is disturbing that you think that negative comments about a service are "untruthful" by the fact that they may be different than the experience you had. You assume the negative comments are at best second hand, when you don't have any idea what experience the posters may have had with the vendor. You yourself, then, are guilty of taking second hand assumed information and posting negatively about it on an open forum.

Actually that is not true at all, I have done buisness with Ryan on a few times. The difference is that the negative comments I see posted, I think yours maybe the only one, are not statistaclly signfigant. Meaning that, I believe, the few bad experience people my have had, have little to do with the shop and more to do with the process of custom made parts.



kind of but not really..

Just because it's custom or slow doesn't mean it's the best there is.. Xmags.. Are allright guns.. But for the price you could have a DM4 or an alias.. IMO those are better guns.. But I guess its all personal preference.. But slow does not necisarelly mean better


I dont think that is entirly correct. I am not comparing X's to everything out there. I am comparing Ryan's product to what is availible for mags, thats the difference.

Lets not get into what is a better deal, hell for 250 bucks I could buy a used M98 w/ compressed air and not play all that differently than a 2k+ rig, and for that same 2-3k I could push a Honda into the 12's, but in reality 2k dollar paintball markers nor 12'sec hondas are practical or fiscaly responsible.


The point of my post is to stop crying about timllyness of custom products. IF you dont want to wait go to wal mart and buy a spyder

[lord1234]

now i haven't done any business with coolhand..though his projects/products seem dope..but i MUST say...leave him the hell alone he is a good business man. He went out of his way to do YOU a favor...sent you a free god damn ASA. stop being a asshat...

[kenndogg]

What is this? Several people gave their feedback as to their experiences with CH, and you guys are jumping on them and beating them up about it? No one here has called CH bad names or LIED about anything. So why are you trying to surpress them? I would think it was a GOOD thing for people to warn others of their own unsatisfactory experience.

Here's my experience:
Great product (vert frame), smooth as butter. Exacting tolerances, and no play whatsoever. However, the frame was a little too thick where the grip frame retaining screw in the trigger guard is. The original screw was too short to grip the ULE body. I had to use one of the drop screws CH provided to secure the frame to my rail/body.

As for the turn around time, I think it's all been said before. Logic Paintball is slooooooow. It doesn't mean you won't get it eventually or that CH is going to try and screw you. It means you'd better not hold your breath or sell off your existing frame hoping that you'll get it in a week. This problem goes away now that CH isn't selling the frames until they come in stock.

I never felt that I was in danger of being ripped off. However, I was frustrated with delays, and as a consumer, I feel that it's my right to ***** and complain about it. When I got my frame, I was ecstatic, but I would certainly think twice about ever purchasing it if I knew it would take so long.

Hence, if I had had the benefit of reading what some of these unsatisfied customers had to say, I would've saved myself time, money and aggravation. So I say: let these people speak! If you've done business with CH, then let your good opinions of his service come to the front as well. Don't try to be the opinion police.

I agree with everything you just said. I had the exact same experience dealing with coolhand as you did and felt the same way.

[gc82000]

This thread is tha funniest thread that I have seen so far even better then the Slogans Thread. All you guys are complaining about time it takes for products to be recieved. I am from Guam so no matter where I order from, it will always take at least a week to arrive. And in some cases they dont even send to Guam. I am not bashing anyone, just put trying to put it to perspective. Here is another rant whenever I order anything I always get a charged a higher rate to send to a foreign country. Guam is a US territory just like Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. So why is it a foreign country, we speak english and use Dollars, so what up. We even pay taxes to the US and are mentioned in every US passport. thats it I am moving to DC, To whip some ***!

Ok not yet but when I attend Georgetown, I will. :D

[melster]

The point of my post is to stop crying about timllyness of custom products. IF you dont want to wait go to wal mart and buy a spyder

cmon man. That's just lame.

Basically, you're saying that if someone screws you over in a trade or on ebay, then you shouldn't post to warn people about it because, hell, you should've just gotten a spyder at wal-mart?

[GT]

cmon man. That's just lame.

Basically, you're saying that if someone screws you over in a trade or on ebay, then you shouldn't post to warn people about it because, hell, you should've just gotten a spyder at wal-mart?


uhhhh no,
I said that if you are ordering custom products be prepared to wait. Come on man learn to read.

My orginal comment on the subject:


when you are dealing with a custom shop expect a long wait, that is how it is.

If you dont want the best, there is a spyder hanging on the wall of your local wal mart with your name on it....


If you have the "have to haveits right now" go to wal mart and buy a spyder. Hell there have been more than a few guys waiting for 2+ months for an RTP. I dont see anyone posting that AGD is ripping them off.......

Why do we not extend the same courtesy to our dealers which is afforded to AGD?

[melster]

uhhhh no,
I said that if you are ordering custom products be prepared to wait. Come on man learn to read.

gtrsi...I'll cut you some slack since you probably haven't read through all the complaints in his dealer's thread on his vert frame.

The whole point is, whatever the feedback, it's useful. One bad analogy deserves another.

[Butterfingers]

Anyway Let me change the subject back to the original subject...

How is the Mill Doing?

Any updates as of now...

I would like to know If I should e-mail logic to change my shipping address as I will be moving in about a month...

Thanks,

Robert

[CoolHand]

. . . . How is the Mill Doing?

Any updates as of now...

Yes.

The card rack came back yesterday, and I got it back in today.

The machine boots, but not everything works, so I am working with the control folks to get it all sorted.

So, the project is moving along, but is not finished yet.

Later

[Butterfingers]

cool beans.

Cant wait till it starts cranking out some logic frames again :D

[hitech]

I refunded his money, paid to have his part reano'ed (twice), then bought him a new one as well as returning the successfully (finally) colored original part.

Could I get you to anno the lower half of my emag? I could use an extra lower half. ;) ROTFLMAO