Low carb rant page

[StuDawggie]

Okay, maybe I missed the bus on this one, but when I stopped to pick up bagels on way to work for the rest of the crew I thought I was seeing things. The bagel shop I went to had "low carb bagels". When I saw this I had 3 words go through my head WTF!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, I can see people being carb concious, but how do you make a low carb bagel. It's all bread!!!!!!!!! If anyone can explain how this works I would like to know. Sure Atkins has made his point and his followers have ruined a few of my favorite restraunts by making them put low carb options on their menus, but I'm goning to start swinging if they ruin bagels.
Okay now that I've ranted my little bit here, who else seen things go low carb that shouldn't be low carb. And feel free to rant on anything low carb.

[Bluestrike_2]

answer to your question: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/12/22/bagels
========

People are desperate to lose weight and these high protein diet books preach what people want to hear: you can eat lots of cholesterol and saturated fat and still lose weight. This romance can lead to tragic consequences, with some people literally dying to lose weight.

hehe

http://www.vitaminstohealth.com/atkins-diet-danger.html
http://www.drfuhrman.com/AtkinsRev.html
http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/news/Jul2003/DoctorsRevealDangersofAtkinsDiet.html
http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/300503diet.html
http://www.mightyvitamins.com/articles/atkins.htm

Plus, a Google search.....

"I see dead people....." [On Atkins]

That dumb, stupid diet!

Designed for lazy fat-asses who are milking our health care system. GRRRR!!!!One word...... EXERCISE. Yet, why should someone sweat in an effort to loose weight when theres this diet that can help you... Of course it can kill you too, but thats irrelevent.

I mean, for god's sake, doesn't it sound sooooo good. You loose weight while eating fats.


On a high protein diet, when we restrict carbohydrates so markedly, the body thinks we are caloric deprived and ketosis results. The body begins to lose fat, even if we are consuming plenty of high-fat foods, as Atkins recommends. Once you stop the diet, you'll gain it all back and more; if you stay on the diet, you risk a premature death. Take your pick. Once you start consuming carbohydrate-containing fruits, vegetables or beans, the ketosis ends and the meat and fat become fattening again. Meat consumption leads to weight gain, unless you have caused a carbohydrate-deficiency ketosis.

Sounds great, doesn't it.....

It's so popular, even athletes on school teams are using it. Talk about stupid! We carb-load before races for a reason, so that we have the energy to compete and not EAT AWAY AT OUR MUSCLES!!!

[Bluestrike_2]

Fatkins Diet! You have to watch.

http://www.mbychosting.com/illwillpress/fatkins.swf

[FooTemps]

Fatkins Diet! You have to watch.

http://www.mbychosting.com/illwillpress/fatkins.swf

LOL, that's hilarious!

"I want my waffle sundae, gimme my carbs!"

[Chojin Man]

Ya this Atkins diet is rediculious. As some one else mentioned its just people looking for an easy way out. Instead of trying to go to the gym and excersise every once in a while.

[sharpshooter1286]

thank god i have a fast metabolism...i weigh like 205 and have 12% body fat too. thank you god.

[djslik]

Yea...most people bounce back to their original weight after dieting...i think if people want to lose weight they can't just look at a diet, they have to change their whole lifestyle, especially the food. What I hate is how McDonalds is trying to be healthy. If you were really trying to lose weight you would not be eating at McDonalds in the first place.

[Butterfingers]

It works.

Ive tried it.

I can go into the biochemistry if you like....

Alot of people are curious about how Atkins works and I figured I would make a brief summary of the certain biochemical reactions that are involved in the effectiveness of the Atkins diet or any low carb diet for that matter. Mind you many of these biochemical rections have recently been uncovered so it will go against traditional methods of thinking...

There are many enzymes involved in the synthysis of fatty acids that are stored in your body as "ugly fat" I will not go through every biochemical reaction because that would take all day and hundreds of boring pages.

The enzyme that Low Carb Diets seem to target is called Acytyl-CoA carboxylase. This enzyme is responsible for converting Acytyl-CoA into Malonyl-CoA. Malonyl-CoA is the molecule NECESSARY for the production of fatty acids.

Now think of Acytyl-CoA as the one big crossroad for all your body's metobolic reactions from this point given differing conditions almost anything can be syntysized from this molecule. The purpose of low carb diets is to shunt Acytyl-CoA AWAY from fatty acid synthysis and INTO other metobolic pathways.

I will try to explain the chemical reactions given a set of 2 scenarios:

Scenario 1: Low Carb High Fat Diet...

When your body is in a low carb state a substance called glucogon is secreted from your pancreas. When you consume many fatty acids in your diet it's digestion produces what is called Fatty-ACYL-CoA. These two INHIBIT the production and activation of Acytyl-CoA carboxylase... this means less Malonyl-CoA is produced and thus excess FAT PRODUCTION IS LESS LIKELY.

EDIT: Chanced no to Less.

Long term exposure to this diet will eventually make the body produce LESS Acytyl-CoA carboxylase and thus gentically speaking you will be less apt to store fat.

Scenario 2: High Carb Low Fat Diet...

When your body is in a high carb state a substance called insulin is secreted from your pancreas. Also when no fat is consumed there is a decreased level of Fatty-ACYL-CoA. This means Acytyl-CoA carboxylase is HIGHLY ACTIVE it will turn the Acytyl-CoA into Malonyl-CoA and into fat at a rapid rate.

Additonaly long term exposure to this diet will cause you body to produce MORE Acytyl-CoA carboxylase and thus it will accelerate fat production.

So essentally a Low Fat High Carb Diet is biochemically speaking the BEST WAY TO GAIN WEIGHT and the only way to loose weight using one of these diets is to inhibit food intake to a level that constitutes moderate starvation...

Food for thought...

Also if you want to know how excersise plays a role in weight loss it also targets the same enzyme... Prolonged periods of excersise not only burns calories and keeps you in shape it also results in the production of AMP-dependant protien kinase (AMPK) which INHIBITS Acytyl-CoA carboxylase which of course means less fat is produced...


There you go scientific proof...

[Butterfingers]

Summary...

Basicly what you are doing in a low carb regimint is inhibiting the enzyme needed to make and store fat. Without this enzyme fat is not stored.

The diet also inhibits the enzyme that produces cholesterol. A low carb diet inhibits the production of cholesterol in the body.

Science is great... the things you learn as a health professional.

Yes... it works and I know exactly WHY it works.

Also the conversion of protein into energy also requires massive amounts of energy. You body actually works more to convert protien into energy than it does to convert carbs into energy.

Protien also loses 1.6 cal/g due to nitrogen loss. The nitrogen in protiens are not processed for energy. They get excreted.


Most people knock the diet cause it goes against all common sense. Once you understand the biochemistry behind it its friggin ingenious. Its basicly targeting the enzyme that allows fat storage.

[slateman]

Nice post Butterfingers. But you still can't prove to me that eating 5lbs of bacon a day is gonna be healthy for you. You may lose weight but you'll die from a heart attack at 36.

[-=Squid=-]

God, I hate this low carb crap. I refuse to believe a freaking bacon, ranch, and chicken wrap is even remotely good for you.

We have this teacher who thinks shes on a "diet" (low carb) beacuse she eats a ton of strawberries throughout the day instead of candy bars. IE, 1 strawberry instead of one candy bar, meaning about 1000 strawberries.

:rolleyes:

[Butterfingers]

Nice post Butterfingers. But you still can't prove to me that eating 5lbs of bacon a day is gonna be healthy for you. You may lose weight but you'll die from a heart attack at 36.


Yeah it works as long as your not silly about it. If you follow it to a tee like Atkins reccomends its not bad. He never intended for people to eat 5 lbs of bacon.

Its like saying you are going on a low fat diet and eating 10 lbs of sugar.

People are stupid for misinterpreting this stuff.

[Rooster]

There are four main ingredients in all food: water, fats, carbs, abd protiens. To take one out imbalences the food and it must be replaced with something else. Decrease the carbs, increase the fat. Decrease the fat, increase the carbs.

Atkins diet works fast, but it doesn't last. It doesn't last becuase eventually the body will adapt to the diet, just like its adapted to a high carb diet over the years.

The only answer is input less, or output more.

[lopxtc]

Well I used the low-carb diet last year .... started in June of 03, I would work out 2-3 times a week in addition to playing paintball 2-3 time a month. My typical workout would consist of the eliptical machine for 45 mins, and a short circuit of weights ... usually low weight with high reps.

My meals consisted of the following;

Breakfast --
low-carb hot cereal
or
2-3 slices of bacon and two eggs with a low-carb tortilla

Lunch -- (Shoot pool every day at lunch and at the same thing.)
Grilled Chicken salad with blu cheese dressing.
or
Salad bar from local grocery store and some tuna.

Snack --
Low carb treat of some kind, or small amount of low in carb nuts or fruit.

Dinner --
Usually fish or chicken and sometimes pork chops. Maybe 1-2 days out of the week I would have red meat instead of fish or chicken.
Steam or grilled veggie of some kind.
low carb bread and some butter

Drinks --
No soda, water or crystal light only.

Vitamin --
Daily multi-vitamin.

In total I was taking in about 11-1500 calories a day depending on the combination of things I ate .. not counting the reduction for working out that day if I did.

From June to December I had gone from 225 to 169. I stopped following the diet religously around Jan of 2004. Since then my body has gained a little back and I am currently 175, but I blame that mostly on going nuts in Canada for 3 months on beer and poutine :) ....

However, I still substitute out sugar free items anywhere I can ... sugar free bread for regular bread, sugar free candy over regular candy, etc etc ...

All the important health levels in my body are all fine with nothing being high as of my last physical.

The diet does work, the problem is that too many people do see it as a binge diet and go nuts on the fatty foods. I personally opted to still study label and found a better way to balance the diet within my lifestyle.

Aaron

[ShooterJM]

The diet also inhibits the enzyme that produces cholesterol. A low carb diet inhibits the production of cholesterol in the body.

The problem is most people (that I know anyway) on the diet ingest so much cholesterol it skyrockets their cholesterol.

[BeaverEater]

The only reason the diet works is cause fat and protien make you feel full. If your on the diet for more than a couple months you can cause kidney damage that gets severe after only a few years.

[Butterfingers]

The problem is most people (that I know anyway) on the diet ingest so much cholesterol it skyrockets their cholesterol.

True... People are stupid about diets.

Likewise when the low fat craze started people went crazy and started drinking 12 packs of soda and they wondered why they gained 200 lbs.

Now we have a country full of fatarses because they thought that oh its low fat it must be good and end up sucking down 10 lbs of sugar.

The diet works you just have to follow all of it not some of it.

There are also transport mechanisms in the intestines that influence the absorbtion of cholesterol. Low carb diets also influence the absorbtion of cholesterol. You end up pooping alot of the cholesterol out. Only if you follow a STRICT regiment.

These lipid transport transmembrane enzymes act as gateways if the door aint open cholesterol isnt going in.

[Bluestrike_2]

hmmmm.

When you're excericising on this diet, and many other fad diets, your body will usually break down your muscles if it doesn't have enough carbs. That's why a lot of athletes carb-load the week or so before an important race, game, or event.

I'm sorry but the Atkins diet is now a cash cow. If it ever worked, great! Now that everyone's using it, people are coming out tons of "low carb" foods, many of which are very unhealthy. I mean, for god's sake, low carb pasta! That's an oxymoron if there ever was one.

Lopxtc:

I think that, because you are active, your body burns off any fat that keeps coming back on. You are one in a few that actually do excercise and keep the pounds off. Many think it's some miracle diet that makes the pounds go away for ever.

Think of Atkins as a last resort. Your goal should be to eat healthy and PREVENT obesity.

Another thing, there are people who are LIKE paper on this diet. They're skinny but they go on this diet. All because of some illusion of beauty. Ugh.

I'm talking about kids in 7th and 8th grade, along with high schoolers, on this diet. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! These kids do this because someone jokes "your fat." Honestly, some of these younger girls are about as stupid as a human being can get.

[Butterfingers]

hmmmm.

When you're excericising on this diet, and many other fad diets, your body will usually break down your muscles if it doesn't have enough carbs. That's why a lot of athletes carb-load the week or so before an important race, game, or event.

I'm sorry but the Atkins diet is now a cash cow. If it ever worked, great! Now that everyone's using it, people are coming out tons of "low carb" foods, many of which are very unhealthy. I mean, for god's sake, low carb pasta! That's an oxymoron if there ever was one.

Lopxtc:

I think that, because you are active, your body burns off any fat that keeps coming back on. You are one in a few that actually do excercise and keep the pounds off. Many think it's some miracle diet that makes the pounds go away for ever.

Think of Atkins as a last resort. Your goal should be to eat healthy and PREVENT obesity.

Another thing, there are people who are LIKE paper on this diet. They're skinny but they go on this diet. All because of some illusion of beauty. Ugh.

I'm talking about kids in 7th and 8th grade, along with high schoolers, on this diet. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! These kids do this because someone jokes "your fat." Honestly, some of these younger girls are about as stupid as a human being can get.


Thats not entirely true the reason why athletes load up on carbs before game day is to get thier liver and muscle glycogen reserves up. Glycogen can be converted into energy MUCH faster than fat can.

There is no sufficent evidence that shows that low carb diets waste muscle protien.

Your observation is correct athletes do carb load but your assumption is questionable.

You body only catabolizes protien if your intake of food is too low and it has no choice but to waste muscle. As long as you keep a positive nitrogen balance you should be fine.

[Mango]

Everything butter said is correct. And yes Atkins is a horrible "diet" to follow for an athlete. The adult liver can store about 100 grams of glycogen, about 200 grams are stored in the muscles. Excess glucose is then stored as glycogen which is then usually converted into fat and stored in adipose tissue. That is the point of fat, to supply a very dense energy source. Most cells in the body obtain the energy by oxidizing fatty acids using some of the enzymes Butters mentioned.


I would like to see what documentation you have Butters that states that fat production is not possible and that Malonyl-CoA production is stopped by the low Carb/high fat diet. I am just curious for myself. I would think so long as the pancriatic lipases are present this cannot be STOPPED. Slowed down maybe.

[Butterfingers]

Everything butter said is correct. And yes Atkins is a horrible "diet" to follow for an athlete. The adult liver can store about 100 grams of glycogen, about 200 grams are stored in the muscles. Excess glucose is then stored as glycogen which is then usually converted into fat and stored in adipose tissue. That is the point of fat, to supply a very dense energy source. Most cells in the body obtain the energy by oxidizing fatty acids using some of the enzymes Butters mentioned.


I would like to see what documentation you have Butters that states that fat production is not possible and that Malonyl-CoA production is stopped by the low Carb/high fat diet. I am just curious for myself. I would think so long as the pancriatic lipases are present this cannot be STOPPED. Slowed down maybe.

Its not stopped it is significantly reduced if Malonyl-Coa is stopped you would die.

The point that I was trying to make is that if you have no malonyl-coa there is no fat production. I dont think I said it was ever stopped. If I did say that it was out of haste and I will correct it.

I wrote that post a while ago on some health forum I forgot which.


EDIT The line should read... reduced not stopped above...

[Trigger_Happy]

It is my uneducated opinion that people simply get so sick of meat, meat, meat that they eat less calories altogether. When people have to grill a steak instead of grabbing chips they end up simply eating nothing and lose weight as a result. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it makes sense to me. And yes, I have friends who've lost 40+ pounds on a version of the Atkins.

[Chojin Man]

One thing that I forgot to mention is that this Atkins diet is good for diabetics. My mom is a diabetic and her diet is very similar to the Atkins diet. Shes lost weight since she started it, and feels much better. Basicly no sugar and low carb stuff.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

The Atkins diet is great assuming that it is used properly. You cannot go and eat all red meat and a pack of bacon. If any of you against it would actually read the book, you would understand. When followed correctly, one can eat nuts, fish, pork, some fruits, vegetables, carb free candies, etc., but nothing in great excess. The diet was originally created for overweight people in need of surgery, but couldn't get it because they were so fat. They put them on the diet to lose enough weight to be operated on. When I was on the diet, I stayed on for a month, lost 23 lbs, and then got off, and I haven't gained that much back yet (only like 3 lbs) and I've been off for about a month.

[Lohman446]

[QUOTE=Bluestrike_2]

That dumb, stupid diet!

Designed for lazy fat-asses who are milking our health care system. GRRRR!!!!One word...... EXERCISE. Yet, why should someone sweat in an effort to loose weight when theres this diet that can help you... Of course it can kill you too, but thats irrelevent.
QUOTE]


Funny, if followed CORRECTLY Atkins requires exercise, its a major point in the books. And your comparing your diet for events which involve marathon style running and long energy reserves to a diet for what most people do. When you practice an extreme such as long distance running - isn't comparing what you do to prepare for it to the rest of the world a touch on the... well obviously wrong side?

BTW... for those who would reduce carbs and not down to the level of Atkins. A key to the diet is getting down to the level that your body changes how it reacts (see above) - a simple reduction of a few carbs is not going to do it, so if your not following it correctly (and you do up your carbs later in it thats why you can come off it to some degree and not gain weight quickly) that means a near avoidance of carbs all together in the beginning. Done it, it works, and did it while weight training, I had no issue building muscle.

[Strider]

I wont offer anymore proofs or herasy, but I use the Atkins method, and after loosing 40 lbs, I've gained back a mere 5 lbs. I've returned to a dietary point where most people can't tell I'm on the plan. (IE - Ice Cream = GOD :D)

As was pointed out, actually read the book, and follow it. All the answers is there.

5lbs of bacon. ROTFLLMAO :o

[Cryer]

Arby's now has "carbless Big montanas"...

Basically, a pile of roast beef on a plate.

:confused:

[Bulldog]

I think it's a fad. It'll peak this year then die out. Though some really believe in it. Different strokes I guess. Balance is the key.

[Bluestrike_2]

Lohman,

If followed correctly. Yet, in all honesty, how many TRULY follow it properly.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3999990/
Article about Low-Carb being instituted by food giants.

The diet had meaning. Now, slap on a low-carb sticker, make a smaller SERVING size(this is where you can trick someone. Make a 1 serving candy bar 2 etc.), and jack up the price. There you go!


"They tried it with sugar-free, low-cholesterol, low-fat and now it's low carbs. I'm sure the early interest in this is people trying new things. The question is, in four or five years where is this going to be?"

It's a fad, and it's being milked by greed. Sure, it CAN work, but it won't so long as corporate greed can be involved. It' a multi-billion dollar industry my friends. Wouldn't you try to cash in on it? Lawyers and marketers can skew just about anything.

Quote from my earlier BUPA link:


Think carefully before embarking on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet.
Nutritionists recommend a diet including a good balance of complex carbohydrates, fibre, fruit, vegetables and protein.

If you want to lose weight and maintain it, make positive changes to your lifestyle and activity levels, as well as eating sensibly.

What does this mean to me?

"My general feeling about the Atkins diet is that, like anything that severely restricts your calories, you'll lose weight. In the short term, if you want to do it for two weeks and lose weight, it probably won't do you any harm," said Dr. Paula Franklin, from BUPA Lighten Up.


However, she warned, "What you need to do in order to be healthy in the long term is to ensure your body has all the nutrients it needs. So, a long-term diet that doesn't include many fruit and vegetables (ie the Atkins) wouldn't be good."


"If you want to be a healthy weight in the long term, the best approach is really lifestyle change," said Dr. Paula Franklin. Fad diets lure people with a quick fix cure, but, says Dr Franklin, "there's no magic with weight loss, and unless you change both what you eat and what you do, you'll put weight back on again."

I said this once, and I will say it again. Excercise. Prevent obesity, that way you do not have to take the health risks associated with these fad diets. I mean, honestly, low-carb bagels and pasta. For god's sake, cardboard doesn't have any carbs. We might as well eat it. :D

A food guide pyramid from this article:
http://www.sciam.com/media/inline/0007C5B6-7152-1DF6-9733809EC588EEDF_3_lg.gif See, excercise IS the most important :D
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0007C5B6-7152-1DF6-9733809EC588EEDF It's about six pages long.

If you must, go on it for a few weeks, maybe a month or two. Just not longer. As my links state, and so will a google search, it's dangerous long term. I believe Dr. Atkins states that it should be permanent(in his book).

Another thing, how can one not do something if they are gaining a hundred pounds, sometimes more. Unless it's genetic, one has a very good chance of being able to stop, change, and reverse it.