?????ANYWAY possible to use CO2?????

[batteryfree]

ok i know that i have to use Compressed air for my x valve. But why couldnt i use like a really good antisiphone co2 tank with an expantion chamber. wouldnt that make sure that no liquid CO2 gets to the gun. becosue isn't teh liquid CO2 what kills your gun when you use co2?

And by the way i know that CO2 sucks. but i just want to be able o shoot stuff for some woods ball in my back yard.(my tank only gets 400 shots)

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

ive seen angels running on it before, I always thought it would be possible as long as no liquid would enter the valve, but im not gonna be the first to test it. heh heh heh...

[WARPED1]

Something to do with recharge rated and PSI stuff.

[Mr. Frodo]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136038&page=2&highlight=03+shocker+emag

See post number 40.

[RRfireblade]

There have been quite a few people run CO2 on R/T/X valves.While is not recommended,it has been shown to be possible with fairly decent results.

[Target Practice]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136038&page=2&highlight=03+shocker+emag

See post number 40.


Hey, someone else sticking up for CO2, gotta love it!

[Kevmaster]

the recharge speed would heat the Co2 and thus increase the pressure drastically...causing flucutating speeds....BAD.

Co2 just can NOT be used with the Retro / X - Valve

[trains are bad]

I love CO2--but it's no good for mags. I promise you will not get good results, the main reason being it can't sustain the high input pressure of the X.


I would try it on an angel, impulse, shocker, trix, bushy.

[Mr. Frodo]

the recharge speed would heat the Co2 and thus increase the pressure drastically...causing flucutating speeds....BAD.

Co2 just can NOT be used with the Retro / X - Valve


Unless you're talking about the friction from a valve, depressurizing CO2 during recharge will cause a temperature to go down in the tank as wll as in the valve.

[RRfireblade]

Co2 just can NOT be used with the Retro / X - Valve

Well.........

It's already been done,as I stated,with pretty decent results so you may want to rethink that..................

;)

[lord1234]

its been done..but generally after about 7 high speed shots..your in the pooper...and need some new orings...

my suggestion, save the money on orings...but a crossfire tank.

[RRfireblade]

That's not true either,I've dropped hoppers at a time on CO2.

If there's anymore fabrication in this thread,the Mods are gonna have to move it to the 'Workshop". :D

[TheTramp]

Unless you're talking about the friction from a valve, depressurizing CO2 during recharge will cause a temperature to go down in the tank as wll as in the valve.

He is talking about friction in the valve. It recharges so fast that you can get a small about of shoot up. I don't know how the interaction of cooling from the CO2 and heating from friction would differ from the straight heeting of HPA.

I'll probably never find out as I don't use my E-Mag if I absolutly have to use CO2.

[scrumpy]

The way the x valve, e-mag valve, basically any RT valve works is it sucks the gas out of the tank. If you're running c02 it WILL suck liquid out, so the liquid will be shot out and expand. Your first shot may be okay, but the next one will run uber hot, maybe 500fps or more. Absolutly no co2 on the rt style valves simply for safety reasons.

NO CO2 IN AN RT!

[Kevmaster]

He is talking about friction in the valve. It recharges so fast that you can get a small about of shoot up. I don't know how the interaction of cooling from the CO2 and heating from friction would differ from the straight heeting of HPA.

I'll probably never find out as I don't use my E-Mag if I absolutly have to use CO2.

yep...im talking about the friction.

and co2 is MUCH more volitile than HPA/N2. it fluctuates a lot more than n2. however, even with n2, you'll notice it does heat up as you have to chrono with hte "RT Chrono Procedures" to get an accurate chrono.


rr...while it may have worked, i would strongly recommend against it

[RRfireblade]

rr...while it may have worked, i would strongly recommend against it

I would recommend against it as well. ;)

I just hate when people (not you specifically) say something that they don't know is true based on their own speculation and state it as fact.It only confuses the 'less informed' who read it as such.

A few months back,after a similar discussion,'Kenndogg' ran his R/T off a bulk CO2 tank just see what would happen. Guess what? Ripped just fine as well.There was a vid up but I think it's down now,oh well.

Anyway,no question it's not recommended.No question it's not the best thing for the valve.No question it will not perform anywhere near HPA.

But it can work under the right circumstances.

(FYI,I just emptied the rest of a 12oz in the backyard thru an old Micro R/T and a remote. Haven't shot that thing in quite some time,'ol L7 and 0 chops.;) )

[GT]

and co2 is MUCH more volitile than HPA/N2.

the misnomer here is IF the CO2 is unregulated. Regulated co2, if done correctly, works just fine.

[Got_Paint]

I remember a while ago someone said that Glenn Palmer got an emag to run well of co2. Can't prove this though, can't find it, so yeah.

[Paintchucker]

I would recommend against it as well. ;)

I just hate when people (not you specifically) say something that they don't know is true based on their own speculation and state it as fact.It only confuses the 'less informed' who read it as such.

A few months back,after a similar discussion,'Kenndogg' ran his R/T off a bulk CO2 tank just see what would happen. Guess what? Ripped just fine as well.There was a vid up but I think it's down now,oh well.

Anyway,no question it's not recommended.No question it's not the best thing for the valve.No question it will not perform anywhere near HPA.

But it can work under the right circumstances.

(FYI,I just emptied the rest of a 12oz in the backyard thru an old Micro R/T and a remote. Haven't shot that thing in quite some time,'ol L7 and 0 chops.;) )


And I can run diesel thru my gasoline engine for a very short time!!!! ROFLMAO, not... Come on, give us a break...

If you really want to run CO2, buy a used automag or minimag valve...

[RRfireblade]

And I can run diesel thru my gasoline engine for a very short time!!!!

Not even close to the same thing but w/e. :rolleyes:

[Kevmaster]

the misnomer here is IF the CO2 is unregulated. Regulated co2, if done correctly, works just fine.

but even when regulated, its inherent properties make it much more volatile.

[jinxed]

the misnomer here is IF the CO2 is unregulated. Regulated co2, if done correctly, works just fine.

Not exactly.
If you heat the downstream CO2, the pressure will increase, and the regulator CAN NOT adjust that. The reg can only raise pressure. It can not lower it.

This is the principle issue with using CO2 on new Mags. As said, the heat generated will cause the pressure to fluxuate wildly. THe reg has no control since the valve is downstream.

Yes, it will still function. Just not very good.

Nick

[ZapTheMad]

I've run my X on CO2. Didn't hurt it at all but I was very careful to keep liquid out. This was only for test firing tho, I would never use it in a game. The biggest problem I encountered was under rapid fire. The CO2 can't keep up with the requirements of the valve and you start dropping off. If the pressure gets low enough, which is easily possible, your valve just sticks. Another thing I noticed is that the internals quickly get dirty on CO2.

CO2 works OK for tuning your marker when set up properly. I use a remote and strap my tank in a vertical position on my bench. But it's not good to play in a game with it at all. It just can't keep up with rapid fire and who doesn't rapid fire an X-valve??? While anti siphon and expansion chambers work well for keeping liquid out, they aren't 100% effective. One mistake and you are gauranteed a valve rebuild. You have all seen what CO2 does to your tank o-ring when you unscrew your tank. Imagine that happening inside your valve.

[batteryfree]

ok well the only reason i want to use co2 is becouse i am going o play with some noobs and wee playing in this kids back yard and everyone thre uses co2, and i can only get 400 shots off of my cheap 45/45 pmi tank. so i just to use this for some random fun woodsball. i dont even need to shoot fast. so even if i get a big *** expansion and an anti siphone tank? becouse i assumedit was just teh liquid co2 that kills the gun.

[FSU_Paintball]

You'd have to be very careful... you don't want to screw up your marker.

The best way of going about it is to have AT LEAST one Palmers Stabilizer on there. I'd recommend getting a female Stabilizer because you can mount them like an ASA for your tank to directly screw into.

Point is, you need something that will absolutely stop the CO2.

[oneworld]

well...first off...get an anti siphon tank...then get a palmerz reg...and then see what happens...
but after buyin all that you would have spent as much or more than it would cost to get a compressed air tank...

[GT]

Not exactly.
If you heat the downstream CO2, the pressure will increase, and the regulator CAN NOT adjust that. The reg can only raise pressure. It can not lower it.


You dont say? This is the same problem X, retro, emag valves have, its called Shoot up. Thus why we chrono differently than any gun on the market. I dont think it matters what gas you use since it is a charateristic of the valve, i.e the physical design of the valve only complicates the issue...

Lets say you set your stab reg to 850psi, do you think you will get a huge valve destroying spike? Probally not, remember that a mag has an intagrated reg it uses prior to pushing AIR into the valve...

Dont quote me on this but I swear I have read a post from Tom that stated if he changed a few parts (maybe reg spring and pin ?) you could run co2 on an Xvalve.

[polemos]

http://www.pbgeek.com/polemos/tstruck04.jpg


I run CO2 in that same basic configuration on 5 of the bushmasters we own.

Dual regulators with an anti-sipon tank (16-20 ounce) for some time now without any problems.

I have limited experiance with the valve system on Mags. I have the female palmer stab set to 400psi and the Male stab goes from 180-250 depending on the velocity I want.

I see the input pressure needs to be higher on a mag. I have used the females @800PSI seemed to work well. I didn't do exensive testing but the spikes everyone seems to refer to are NON-exsistant.

[TheTramp]

ok well the only reason i want to use co2 is becouse i am going o play with some noobs and wee playing in this kids back yard and everyone thre uses co2, and i can only get 400 shots off of my cheap 45/45 pmi tank. so i just to use this for some random fun woodsball. i dont even need to shoot fast. so even if i get a big *** expansion and an anti siphone tank? becouse i assumedit was just teh liquid co2 that kills the gun.


Concidering all the hassle with remotes, expantion chamber, ect; you might just want to get yourself a SCUBA tank and a fill sation.

[TheTramp]

Dual regulators with an anti-sipon tank (16-20 ounce) for some time now without any problems.


While I do think that it's a cool idea that is sure to work (I like the female Stab. cradle perticuarly) I just don't see the point of putting the better part of $200 worth of regs on a gun just so it can shoot CO2.

Of course if you are doing it "because you can" then more power to you. It looks really sweet.

[GT]

I just don't see the point of putting the better part of $200 worth of regs on a gun just so it can shoot CO2.

I think there are a few reasons to run co2
1. guns with poor effiency need a more potent energy source
2. availibility of compressed air.
3. some fields charge for all day air on compressed air, and co2 is free with your field fee.
4. for me personally I feel that co2 is alot safer. You are storing about 1000psi instead of 4.5k-5k.

[GotMag?]

WOW, was was so close to asking if you rode the short bus after that question batteryfree, but i guess you can do it :eek: , power to c02 users

[pekingduck04]

AGD says no c02. How much more simple can it get?
Get your head of of your ***.

[NoFearPaintballer]

try rigging up llike 5 level 6 expansion chambers with one way quick disconnect that have one ways and filters and on top of that a Anti siphon. that way you should be fine. i have actually seeone like that.

[CoolHand]

AGD says no c02. How much more simple can it get?
Get your head of of your ***.

Why is it that posts like this always come from folks with less than 30 posts?

I'm pretty sure that it was people like you who hanged anyone who said the world wasn't flat.

Perhaps you should consider getting your head out of your sphincter, and realizing that if you only eat what others feed you, you will end up consuming a lot of bulls**t in your time.

I'm done now.

I just get so tired of seeing those stupid "it can't be done, so don't try!" posts.

[TheTramp]

I think there are a few reasons to run co2
1. guns with poor effiency need a more potent energy source.

That's a good point. My old Spyder would go for the better part of a day on one 20oz tank.


2. availibility of compressed air.
3. some fields charge for all day air on compressed air, and co2 is free with your field fee..

It used to be CO2 or HPA with an all day fill around here but I was interested to find out that several of the fields have started only giving HPA all day fills. You have to pay more for CO2. I guess that's because once the field has paid for their commpresser/booster then CO2 is more expencive.


4. for me personally I feel that co2 is alot safer. You are storing about 1000psi instead of 4.5k-5k.

Not much I can say about this; it's true.

All in all. I would like to get the benifits of the huge numbers of shots that CO2 gives but I'm just not willing to deal with the hassles.

[Butterfingers]

Not exactly.
If you heat the downstream CO2, the pressure will increase, and the regulator CAN NOT adjust that. The reg can only raise pressure. It can not lower it.

This is the principle issue with using CO2 on new Mags. As said, the heat generated will cause the pressure to fluxuate wildly. THe reg has no control since the valve is downstream.

Yes, it will still function. Just not very good.

Nick

The valve is actually very integral with the workings of the RT REG. As a reg the RT is VERY unconventional. It dumps full input into the chamber first bypassing the regulation components and when it hits its desired pressure it shuts off instantaneouly.

HPA temps in the chamber due to compression and heating can exceed 180 degrees F. In an RT valve.

[Kevmaster]

all these methods are fine and good for getting liquid out of hte valve.

but liquid in the mag, or no liquid in the mag, the downside will be the same. it may end up causing TERRIBLE velocity spikes, or at least some velocity problems.

Will it be less so with no liquid? yes. Will it still be a very real possiblility, yes.

however, the good news is that you cant really FUBAR your mag by using Co2. You may eat an oring and experience bad performance, but thats about it

[batteryfree]

i really dont care how crappy it wll work i just want to know if it is possible and anyone has done it succesfully. And for te record i bought a scuba tank yesterday.

[Kevmaster]

yes, it is possible. and success can be defined in many ways...