What is AGD doing in the future?

[NoFearPaintballer]

I have a few questions.

With WDP sueing SP and a few fields. Will AGD start selling Emags and Xmag to the US? And is AGD working on any new products. possible a new Electro mag?

just a few things I want to know about

[nt2004]

AGD has discontinued production of the x and emags and the possiblity of a new electro mag is slim to none. AGD is focusing on fast mechanical paintball guns rather than electros. Check out the deadlywind hair trigger video at the top of the forum. It might hint at what could be in the future

[NoFearPaintballer]

may be for the best


i was hoping on a new electro possibly smaller and can cap out faster

[Chronobreak]

do a search for agds new gun its rumord there working on it but nothing definite at this time

[NoFearPaintballer]

i wonder what tom kaye has to say?

but a new agd gun would definately bring me back to mags!

[Enemy]

but in the mean time the emags with 4.01 can do 22-24 bps and thats with someone pulling the trigger the vavle is rated at 25 so we all have something to hold us over till then.

[Athius]

AGD is gonna make, by popular demand, Tomato Launchers and by the way i think the AGD tomato launcher is gonna be named toma-mag. :p

[minimag03]

I heard that if AGD brings the E/X-mag back that they are going to be making some changes like a smaller battery pack. But that was a long time ago. I wish AGD would give us a hint of what is to come. Com' on Tom, tell us.

minimag03

[ZapTheMad]

Yes Tom, do tell!

[Automaggin2]

He already did tell....search.

[penguinpunk555]

The only thing for AGD towards the tourney scene right now seems to be the DeadlyWind trigger. Think they want to move to scenario stuff.

[AGD]

Ok here is the scoop. Paintball is in a wierd time right now. We can't make decisions to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop a porduct we might get sued over. Without legal threats we can either make a new electro or a super fast mech. Electro is easier, mech is safer. Its a Y in the road and to play it safe we are currently in "pause mode" where we are sitting at the fork waiting to see what happens.

As you can see from the recent WDP suits that this thing is not over. If you count up who has been sued along with those that signed up to pay royalties, the list of remaining companies is short, VERY short. Obviously we and a few others are on that list. To make matters worse no one is talking to anyone in the industry becasue it opens up more potential legal problems.

Our current strategy is to focus on lowering prices, this everyone likes. When we did that we had a jump in demand that threw us into backorder. We are still cleaning up inventory issues but with the demise of the Automag, Minimag and Flatline those issues are pretty much over. Our current most important job is to get inventory up so no one is waiting for our new lower priced products.

Concerning tournaments, we have not been able to change the minds of tourney players no matter what we did. The "mags suck" attitude would not go away. Well here is our secret plan..... If they think mags suck then we make the "mag" name go away, get it? Dump all the products that say "mag" and then lay low a while. The tournament kids turn over every 6 months to a year so if we evaporate the name and wait a bit, when we come back with a new name, PRESTO we are new gun on the block!

Scenario is getting HUGE and we are the only company seriously sponsoring teams. We have basically all the big names, Bad Karma, Evil Inc., Mayberrry Mauraders, Blitzkrieg and more. We are offering the Tac-One as a made-for-scenario marker which people are excited about. Our next new products will likely be scenario related while we let the tourney scene settle down.

We are continuing discussions with Nicad about his trigger. Since he doesn't have a patent yet this makes the whole thing very tricky. If this works out, we expect to have a super mech trigger system as our next major product.

We are currenly expanding our made to order RTpros to inlcude Nicad bodies, Tac bodies and any other darn thing we sell that fits on it. Everyone seems to like having it their way!

SO to recap, waiting on the legal storm to be over, hiding from the tournament guys, pushing scenario to new heights, cooking the burgers YOUR way and trying to make Nicad happy.

Thats whats going on at,

AGD

[coolcatpete]

Sound reasonable.
Pete

[shivors]

That's it. I am getting a mag.

[nt2004]

AGD is gonna make, by popular demand, Tomato Launchers and by the way i think the AGD tomato launcher is gonna be named toma-mag. :p

you say tomato, i say tomago.......

[AGDlover]

i disagre with TK about hideing from the turny scean because the only way to get the "Mags suck" thing out of the way is to push in and show em how its done Mag style. ppl mainly say that because there ignorant as hell and aren't pashinet enough to give something a try. so to TK i say: Get more into the turny scean! Don't back away then they will think your a sissy and will just hate you more. I've been in thease situations trust me. People at my school didn't like my mag when i first got it but then as i let em give it a try (a coupple of shots on it) they backed off of it. so push onto the turny more there ain't many ppl on the turny scean with mags so put your name out there more. get Pride, Lock n' Load, Kids, ect out there more thats the only way to stop all the comoashion. Because the last thing we all need is for AGD to go out of bisness because of low sales. you have to get your name out there Tom! Don't woss out stay strong and do what you have to to get your name out!

[kosmo]

If you were to market upgrades for other guns as high end products you could then use those products names in a new gun later down the line. Much like the tornado valve and sidewinder are recognized as top of the line putting a little separation in the consumers mind between say the viking and a similar bushmaster and impulse. Also developing parts now would save time in developing the gun, because you would already have designed the best reg, valve, bolt, etc for it.

[minimag03]

AGD isn't going to go out of bisness. They have backorders on things like the ULE customs. However, I do believe AGD should start sponsoring more pro teams that will win and get the the automag's name out there.

[nato]

Well I agree with Tom. Although in all honesty I do not think that AGD has tried very hard to make their name known to the tournament community. Ex: Being present at PSP/NPPL events and so on. I do think that AGD and all AGD users in general have been trying to convince the paintball community that the mag does work and will function just as well if not better than other paintball markers. Seeing as how that strategy has not worked I don't see how waiting will do any harm. Its going in a new direction and I doubt this new direction will harm anyone. Nevertheless I do think more effort could be shown by AGD to let everyone know that they are here to stay.

Best of luck,

N.A.T.O.

[Cyberious]

i disagre with TK about hideing from the turny scean because the only way to get the "Mags suck" thing out of the way is to push in and show em how its done Mag style. ppl mainly say that because there ignorant as hell and aren't pashinet enough to give something a try. so to TK i say: Get more into the turny scean! Don't back away then they will think your a sissy and will just hate you more. I've been in thease situations trust me. People at my school didn't like my mag when i first got it but then as i let em give it a try (a coupple of shots on it) they backed off of it. so push onto the turny more there ain't many ppl on the turny scean with mags so put your name out there more. get Pride, Lock n' Load, Kids, ect out there more thats the only way to stop all the comoashion. Because the last thing we all need is for AGD to go out of bisness because of low sales. you have to get your name out there Tom! Don't woss out stay strong and do what you have to to get your name out!

The tourney scene is very quirky. For players is expensive and for a company it is very expensive.

Tom is absolutely correct in his analysis of the situation. His tactical descision to lay low is very smart and shows a great deal of strategic thinking. Let's analyze it. Right now AGD cannot make a "E" Marker safely without possibly being sued by Goat Roper Parts. At the same time AGD doesn't have a marker that can realistically compete at the tourney level (Not bashing here I own 6 AGD markers). For him to blow money on sponsorships would be stupid. Focusing on the Scenario and Rec player where massive volumes of paint are less important and a reliable tough as heck marker is important at a value price is good business. It allows them to make money while waiting on the current dust to settle. Also in looking at the industry all of these lawsuits will weed out some of the competition while making the remaining companies who were forced to spend thousands or even millions in court battles, weak.

AGD will probably operate at an even but not overly profitable level for a little while. There are three possibilities regarding AGD besides the immenent doom AGD detractors seem to be on the band wagon about. A) The industry will see the aforementioned downsizing of the competition or B) The Super Mech will come out making the need for bulky battery laden markers unnecessary, attracting the tourney players you mention when they realize a fast, reliable, marker with no tempermental electronics or too many adjustments is the smartest way to go. C) Tom will release something that he is not telling us about (the hAir being a distraction to through us off) and all other technology will become obsolete.

That's my 27 cents...

[shivors]

For him to blow money on sponsorships would be stupid.

While Kingman and AGD are two drastically different companies....Kingman USA has sponsored Bad Company for several years. From my view they are reasonably competative and they run 250.00 Spyders against all the rest.

I think this is key to Kingman keeping a semblance of "street cred".

MY2C

[minimag03]

While Kingman and AGD are two drastically different companies....Kingman USA has sponsored Bad Company for several years. From my view they are reasonably competative and they run 250.00 Spyders against all the rest.

I think this is key to Kingman keeping a semblance of "street cred".

MY2C


I agree, give them some ULE RT Pros and see what they can do at the competative level. When the super mech somes out, what ever it might be, upgrade the team and let them kick even more butt.

I think we can all agree that AGD needs to let the paintball community that they are here to stay, just not it a way that they will be sued.

[Cyberious]

[QUOTE=shivors]While Kingman and AGD are two drastically different companies....Kingman USA has sponsored Bad Company for several years. From my view they are reasonably competative and they run 250.00 Spyders against all the rest.

I think this is key to Kingman keeping a semblance of "street cred".

MY2C[/QUOTE

Barely, street credible. They only do well through a heroic effort of some great players using E-Markers that are more or less prohibited to AGD.

[shivors]

My point wasnt to compare markers.

[Cyberious]

My point wasnt to compare markers.

Yes but at that level you need to compare markers. Remember how the Naughty Dogs struggled with Mech Cockers in 2002 and then came back in 2003 with E-Markers and did much better?

[GoatBoy]

Our current strategy is to focus on lowering prices, this everyone likes. When we did that we had a jump in demand that threw us into backorder. We are still cleaning up inventory issues but with the demise of the Automag, Minimag and Flatline those issues are pretty much over. Our current most important job is to get inventory up so no one is waiting for our new lower priced products.

The cost thing I am 100% behind. You have a good product. There's no better advertisement for the product than the product itself. You just need to get them into people's hands.



Concerning tournaments, we have not been able to change the minds of tourney players no matter what we did.

Did you try... sponsoring some bigger teams? Are you pulling a Meat Loaf on us?



The "mags suck" attitude would not go away. Well here is our secret plan..... If they think mags suck then we make the "mag" name go away, get it? Dump all the products that say "mag" and then lay low a while. The tournament kids turn over every 6 months to a year so if we evaporate the name and wait a bit, when we come back with a new name, PRESTO we are new gun on the block!

Even if the tournament players cycle out, they wind up going to probably two of the same places: their local paintball shop/field, and something like PBN. They'll receive the same indoctrination to AGD products the previous generation did. "First, I plan to soil myself. Then, I plan to regroup and come up with a better plan."

And let's just stop for a second. If you pull the traditional mag lines, then what is the remaining salient point for the players to see?



Scenario is getting HUGE and we are the only company seriously sponsoring teams. We have basically all the big names, Bad Karma, Evil Inc., Mayberrry Mauraders, Blitzkrieg and more. We are offering the Tac-One as a made-for-scenario marker which people are excited about. Our next new products will likely be scenario related while we let the tourney scene settle down.

YES! SCENARIO BALL!

So you're trying to clean up the mag image by foraying headfirst into scenario ball. You pretty much don't sponsor tournament teams, but you sponsor scenario teams. All while pausing to have deep thoughts on the hAIR trigger.

*sobbing*

You put the two plans together, and you want to have WHAT kind of effect on tournament players?



Ahh, I see some people already responded similarly. Whew. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

[shivors]

Guy...the markers are not the point in any way. Bad Company has a name and is widely known to use Spyders which drives sales of Spyders to young players. I think they are probably getting their monies worth. That is the point...not any tournies placed in or equipment.

I mean Tom is kind enough to give away markers for the sign up for Shatner and 500 dollars of AGD merchandise to a contest winner.

[NoFearPaintballer]

This seems to be a tough decision AGD must make but when you guys decide let us know!

[Cyberious]

Guy...the markers are not the point in any way. Bad Company has a name and is widely known to use Spyders which drives sales of Spyders to young players. I think they are probably getting their monies worth. That is the point...not any tournies placed in or equipment.

I mean Tom is kind enough to give away markers for the sign up for Shatner and 500 dollars of AGD merchandise to a contest winner.

True but a few hundred bucks is a heck of alot different than a quarter of a million bucks. AGD Pride was sponsored, so were the AGD kids, so is Clare. They've done well too. Heck I remember even hearing one of them mention that Strange had to adjust their game because of the volumes of paint the AGD team was laying down. However, this hasn't made a great deal of difference because of the negative connotation that is associated with Mags from 5-7 years ago.

Have you ever heard of DeWalt power tools? Did you know that DeWalt was Black and Decker's answer to the negativity surrounding their name? They are produced by the same company! At the time no self respecting construction worker would be caught dead with a tool from the same company that produced the Dust Buster. Point is they changed the name and color and guess what? DeWalt is now one of the tool companies of choice amongst construction workers.

So the question becomes what's in a name? I suspect that if the hAir were named the hAir Mag it would suffer because of the name. If it were called something like the Deadlywind it would sell like crazy and Tom could sell at a premium price because it would be new innovative technology (well to everyone but all of us die hard supporters :-)).

[AGDlover]

Guy...the markers are not the point in any way. Bad Company has a name and is widely known to use Spyders which drives sales of Spyders to young players. I think they are probably getting their monies worth. That is the point...not any tournies placed in or equipment.


dude BadCompany is payed for every game they play with there low end guns

[shivors]

LOL...IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MARKERS!

I know that Bad Company suffers because of their markers....I never said otherwise. They do however compete and are well known. This allows Kingman to sell more markers to kids. That is all.

[Blazestorm]

AGD is making me my own custom annoed aluminum 6-pak =/

PLZ?

I need one for my phantom and to match my Revenge...

[ZapTheMad]

I think it's a good plan. Let all the others fight it out and save resources in the meantime. When the time is right, jump in with something new that will place you in the market as a leader.

[Beemer]

AGD Pride was sponsored, so were the AGD kids, so is Clare.

Was ,were, is Pride switching guns, what gun will Clare use next????????????????

[nastymag]

AGD used to sponser Jax Warriors, a pro team ( not very good anymore).

i think they sponsered them from like 1998 thru the end of 2001 season.

[Shykicker]

I think targeting the Rec Ballers is a pretty good place to start. That is where a lot of the ignorant paintball banter gets started. IE spiral ported barrels cause your balls to spin-stabilize. Low pressures are more efficient. Et cetera.

Maybe some apparel and other promo stuff could be geared towards the "new mag" image. Thinking, like, "Automag: not the same old gun." Something along those lines. Just something to make people think twice.

[richie]

We are currenly expanding our made to order RTpros to inlcude Nicad bodies, Tac bodies and any other darn thing we sell that fits on it. Everyone seems to like having it their way!

SO to recap, waiting on the legal storm to be over, hiding from the tournament guys, pushing scenario to new heights, cooking the burgers YOUR way and trying to make Nicad happy.

Thats whats going on at,

AGD

Great,Tom said "have it your way".Now he is going to have every Burger King franchise in america after him.Bad enough that he is trying to avoid lawsuits from the paintball realm and he jumps in an pokes the burger world in the eye.What is this world coming too?(If you can't smell the sarcasm in that statement,you need to get a life)

I can't wait to see what's on the horizon.Tom your products rock!! Keep up the great work.Hope to meet you one day.Stay away from the burger slogans though. :D

[the larch]

Thanks for the post Tom. Now we can all take turns suggesting names for a new marker. Howabout Supercalifragilisticshootumflatterfurther.
or..the Pheonix(corny huh?) :D

[Shykicker]

heh. "Have you had your break-shot today?"

[PzYcO]

All i can say is, if AGD comes out with a new tourney gun by next season, ill take 2!

[NoFearPaintballer]

it'd be pretty cool if agd made a super efficiancy mod!

But really wanna see how AGD takes their business!

[Blazestorm]

Sounds like they're sticking mechanical and working on the Tac-One... and I'll be buying one of those uber mech guns when they come out, until then I'll be shooting my Revenge/Phantom... :D

[Chronobreak]

DONT drop the mag name that ive come to know and love PLEEEEESE!!!
but all sounds good and i expected as much from agd. Keep up the good work

[minimag03]

The mag name has been around for more that 10 years, and should be kept that way. Paintball markers are different than power tools, people will notice that it is the same marker.

[Cyberious]

Paintball markers are different than power tools, people will notice that it is the same marker.

Not really in the grand scheme of things. People haven't really noticed that DeWalt and Black and Decker are the same power tools in a different color and different labeling.

The point is that Black and Decker was able to change their negative connotation through creative marketing. They kept their other line and started a new one at the same time and no one was any the wiser. Honestly if you've walked out onto field with an Old Skool RT recently alot of the newer generation including some of the younger tourney players ask who makes that marker? Even with the tell tale Mag looking valve it is different than what they are used to.

Another example is TIDE laundry detergent. Have you ever noticed that they almost always advertise it as "The New TIDE"?

How many things can they really change? It is soap for goodness sakes. What they do is slap a color scheme on the box and call it new. Same concept. Tom's theory has been the same in many respects lately. Notice how the Mag name has been removed from all of the valves? Notice how there are no Mags advertised? Just the TacOne and RT Custom. They are still the same great products with a different name and packaging.

[Rumble]

umm so if the mag name is gone.... dosent that mean no more AO? :confused: :(

[Cyberious]

umm so if the mag name is gone.... dosent that mean no more AO? :confused: :(

Unlikely, at the worst you could just call it Airguns Online. However since this is more of an online community there really is no need to change the board name.

[ramenjames]

I think it might be smart to do the tool thing that has been brought up a few times

keep the 'Mag name to continue with your current plan (the rec/big game thing)
and make a new name/product to blow the tourny hype machines out of the water

.02

[nicad]

'cause as we know.. its all about making that Nicad guy happy! :)

[bleachit]

sigh, just erased all I wrote...

basically, AGD messing with the scenario crowd will help create a base of support for the TAC ONE. After AGD's rep is reborn in the scenario area, a new tourney marker will be more feasible, if/when one is made.

The scenario market is probably a better deal than going after a major tourney team to sponsor because I would think a scenario team would not cost as much to sponsor, and a scenario team would actually be able to interact with more people more often and allow these people who are not familiar with AGD or their products an opportunity to shoot them/learn about them before judging them.

[gibby]

'cause as we know.. its all about making that Nicad guy happy! :)
Of course! Besides AGD, no one else makes kick@$$ mag parts! Keep it up and I hope things go your way! BTW, I still know a guy who loves to make love to my Karta. For his sake, I just won't mention his name...LOL! :D

[Enemy]

i dont know.. dropping the mag name in all reality all of the ule parts have fought off the mag hatters very well.. i espically love it when i stick my finger in my breach then say can your mechanical do that!!! with my x-mag coming i hope to change alot of beliefs about agd and with the start of an all agd team here in vegas that should help as well.. in the mean time the problem with tourney teams that they will shoot and hype who ever gives them the best deal..dynasty and sp.. naughty dogs and bob long.. lets face it to the pros the best gun isnt based on performance its based on paychecks and everyone follows the hype thats why agd is different and better they dont pay for the hype.

[slade]

Not really in the grand scheme of things. People haven't really noticed that DeWalt and Black and Decker are the same power tools in a different color and different labeling.

The point is that Black and Decker was able to change their negative connotation through creative marketing. They kept their other line and started a new one at the same time and no one was any the wiser. Honestly if you've walked out onto field with an Old Skool RT recently alot of the newer generation including some of the younger tourney players ask who makes that marker? Even with the tell tale Mag looking valve it is different than what they are used to.

Another example is TIDE laundry detergent. Have you ever noticed that they almost always advertise it as "The New TIDE"?

How many things can they really change? It is soap for goodness sakes. What they do is slap a color scheme on the box and call it new. Same concept. Tom's theory has been the same in many respects lately. Notice how the Mag name has been removed from all of the valves? Notice how there are no Mags advertised? Just the TacOne and RT Custom. They are still the same great products with a different name and packaging.


sorry, but i think power tools and detergent are too different from paintball to make an analogy. with paintball, new players will go to a field and rent a gun for the first few times they play. then they might do some research online on paintball guns and then ask someone at the field next time they go what gun they should get. if they looked at mags online, the person at the field may say "dont buy a mag, mags suck!!" and then the kid will get a different gun. i know the first time i mentioned to a ref that i was going to get a mag, he laughed at me. i asked him why, and he said that mags sucked. aparently he had an old 68 classic that he had had for years, and left on the floor and kicked around. my guess would be that he didnt even know about the xvalve, ule parts, or even e/x mags. the only way to deal with this is to get mags out there and show people that mags arent just 68 classics. if you change the name of mags, most likely the people that were uninformed about mags will just start saying "agd sucks". the reason that a name change worked with power tools is that its not a sport. you will almost never see 5 friends get together to go "powertooling". when people are looking for a new powertool, they may ask one of their friends what they have. if they say "black and deacker sucks" then the person will go out and buy from dewalt without knowing its made by black and deacker. since its not a hobby that people are obsessed with, the person will not spend any time to find who makes dewalt. either that or the person will not ask anyone, just go to the store at random, and buy a dewalt power tool, and then find out it works well, and recomend it to other people. almost no one will ever just go to a store and buy a paintball gun at random, especially a high end mag. so the only way to end the negative image of mags is to show them newer mags, and what they really can do.

[shivors]

Screw it....I am just going to use MIND BULLETS!

[RenagadeOfFunk]

...they are planning to do what they do every night...


....try and take over the world!...

...Techs and the Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom...

(sing with Pink and he Brain theme) :D

[Eric Cartman]

sigh, just erased all I wrote...

basically, AGD messing with the scenario crowd will help create a base of support for the TAC ONE. After AGD's rep is reborn in the scenario area, a new tourney marker will be more feasible, if/when one is made.

The scenario market is probably a better deal than going after a major tourney team to sponsor because I would think a scenario team would not cost as much to sponsor, and a scenario team would actually be able to interact with more people more often and allow these people who are not familiar with AGD or their products an opportunity to shoot them/learn about them before judging them.

I agree. Why waste time and huge amounts of money going up against a negative mindset and companies like WDP and SP? Why not try to dominate in the largest area of paintball - rec ball and scenario? If AGD can dominate in these areas, it will give them a very large fan base and greater financial stability, enabling to re-enter the tourney scene some time down the road with a huge impact. If the tourney scene's still not ready to embrace the new AGD, then screw 'em. The vast majority of paintball players will never play in a tournament anyway. TK'll do just fine dominating the rest of the paintball scene.

[shivors]

Speaking as someone who just recently learned more about the Automag, the image I had coming into this forum was that the Automag was a reliable marker but it was relatively unattractive and behind the techno curve.

I rarely ever saw the new AGD upgrades at the few fields I play at so naturally my view was based on the older gear that I did see. Of course seeing the new parts and what you guys have been building I see what AGD is all about.

Personally, I think that in order to jump into different markets that AGD needs to release an entirely new marker. In order to keep their loyal customer base they would need to continue the Mag/ULE product line but create a new marker outside the box. In my opinion AGD can make all the mods or upgrades in the world but it is still a Mag and they have an unfortunate and inaccurate reputation of being inefficient paint blenders.

I dont think I have ever seen anyone blast AGD for quality so a new marker could possibly be introduced and gain popularity quickly.

[WARPED1]

i disagre with TK about hideing from the turny scean because the only way to get the "Mags suck" thing out of the way is to push in and show em how its done Mag style. ppl mainly say that because there ignorant as hell and aren't pashinet enough to give something a try. so to TK i say: Get more into the turny scean! Don't back away then they will think your a sissy and will just hate you more. I've been in thease situations trust me. People at my school didn't like my mag when i first got it but then as i let em give it a try (a coupple of shots on it) they backed off of it. so push onto the turny more there ain't many ppl on the turny scean with mags so put your name out there more. get Pride, Lock n' Load, Kids, ect out there more thats the only way to stop all the comoashion. Because the last thing we all need is for AGD to go out of bisness because of low sales. you have to get your name out there Tom! Don't woss out stay strong and do what you have to to get your name out!Please stay in school. It hurt reading your spelling. But I agree with Tom. Definately come out with new name! Biring baxck "Panther".
scene, patient, tourney, wus

[Cyberious]

sorry, but i think power tools and detergent are too different from paintball to make an analogy. with paintball, new players will go to a field and rent a gun for the first few times they play. then they might do some research online on paintball guns and then ask someone at the field next time they go what gun they should get. if they looked at mags online, the person at the field may say "dont buy a mag, mags suck!!" and then the kid will get a different gun.

And would a professional construction worker do any different? Wouldn't he talk to his co-workers and make his decision artially on their input?



i know the first time i mentioned to a ref that i was going to get a mag, he laughed at me.

Show up on a jobsite with a Black and Decker tool and I suspect you'd get the same reaction.

<SNIP>


since its not a hobby that people are obsessed with, the person will not spend any time to find who makes dewalt. either that or the person will not ask anyone, just go to the store at random, and buy a dewalt power tool, and then find out it works well, and recomend it to other people. almost no one will ever just go to a store and buy a paintball gun at random, especially a high end mag. so the only way to end the negative image of mags is to show them newer mags, and what they really can do.

Your right it isn't a hobby, it is their means to put food on the table and to support their hobbys.

Showing new mags has been done (mainly the EMag and XMag). I've put my XMag in the hands of many folks, even let them play a game with it. I still hear Mags Suck out of some of their mouths. I heard it out of the mouth of a guy who worked in a shop and uses a DM4. So I let him try my X-Mag. He was clearly faster with the X-Mag and all he could say was that it was OK but he still thinks Mags suck. It is all about perception and peoples opinion.

By and large humans as a species do not like to find out their opinions are wrong. You can even prove it to them and the still won't like to admit it. It puts them into a state called cognitive dissonance. Meaning that even though they have been proven wrong, their mind still wants to believe that they were right.

[stip]

Ok, first at all hello to everybody, it's my first msg in this forum. Then, as I am living in France, my english is very bad ... sorry. :o

So, I've got a mag for 6 or 7 years, and I recently buy an X-valve, ULT etc...
But the only way to buy this kind of stuff is to buy via AGD on-line shop ! NO MORE SHOP in France distribute any agd markers/parts etc ...
And when I play with or when I say " I've got an Automag ", everybody answer : " you still play with this kind of marker ?! This marker still exist ? What is this marker, there is no electronic, he sucks !! bla bla bla ..... " !
Even one of the older firm in France who distributed AGD product say : " Automag WAS a pretty cool gun, but today he's dead ! AGD didn't know innovate ! You'd better buy an electro (specially DM4 or E-Blade / Cocker...).

Personnaly, I've already thought to buy an electro (before buy Xvalve), but I definitively prefer my Mag. His look, his simplicity, his quality .....

So I guess AGD should keep automag name, continue to make great upgrade (xvalve, LVL10) for him, BUT their should create an completly new gun (electro of course !). To compete with the other (Dye, WGP...).

And finaly, their should think about other contries, like France (and Europe in general). :p

L8r

[slade]

cyberious - i was talking about people who just buy power tools for personal use, not people who use them for their job. for the people who work in construction (i dont know too much about it, but this is what i would suspect), the company they work for probably owns the tools. if they do buy the tools themselves, this may apply. although i think that if agd just changes the name of mags, the negative name of mags would carry on, as long as it is a blow-forward with the same style valve and one tube. maybe if agd came out with a whole different marker with a different name the negative attitude would not carry on to the new marker, but in my opinion just a name change will do nothing.

[Cyberious]

cyberious - i was talking about people who just buy power tools for personal use, not people who use them for their job. for the people who work in construction (i dont know too much about it, but this is what i would suspect), the company they work for probably owns the tools. if they do buy the tools themselves, this may apply. although i think that if agd just changes the name of mags, the negative name of mags would carry on, as long as it is a blow-forward with the same style valve and one tube. maybe if agd came out with a whole different marker with a different name the negative attitude would not carry on to the new marker, but in my opinion just a name change will do nothing.

Perhaps. And perhaps I just have a negative opinion on mankind. I still think that many, certainly not all, would think it is a new marker with a simple name change and perhaps a change in the body style. I was coming from the stand point of the tourney player who does kind of use the marker for their job. I don't think we are too far off from our points of view. But where we are let's just agree to disagree :-)

[slade]

stip - look around on AO. there are electric markers, like the e-mag and x-mag, but AGD stopped their production because of Smart Parts. you can still buy those used or maybe from a dealer like tunaman or whitewolf (i think they still sell them) although youd probably have to pay in US dollars and pay a lot for shipping. AGD is currently working on a mechanical marker that will be able to keep up with electros (the hair trigger), so they dont need to produce electros any more. oh, and AGD does think about europe: http://www.airgun.com/Europe/index.html

try looking around our forum more. especially look at the hair trigger post.

[slade]

But where we are let's just agree to disagree :-)

deal. i dont think that further argument will get us anywhere.

[TraXeR]

stip - but AGD stopped their production because of Smart Parts..

Uh, that's not what I heard..

I heard it's because the technology is very old and they wanted to get rid of the 'mag' name. So they are revamping their product line. Hence aslo why the classic mag, minimag and flatline are no longer sold. Smart Parts had nothing to do with it.

[Thermus]

Developing the hair trigger is the best thing to do right now. When people see that no batteries are needed to shoot fast with mags, there opinions WILL change, and fast. Patent that fast. When is comes out, find a good tourny team to sponsor, and give them the new trigger. People will see what it can do.

[Xyxyll]

I think AGD's doing a pretty smart thing by changing concentrations. In the past few years, scenario ball has gone huge. I've been an avid scenario player for more than two years now, and it has grown a lot! My first scenario game had 60 people. My last scenario game had 256! Scenario players tend to be more honest, and you rarely see cheating in the game. Cheating is simply not acceptable at scenario players. You only sit out a max of 10-15 min, and you're back in! And to the rare wiper, I've seen players call their teammates out because of wiping.

At scenario games, you go out and have fun. There's room for all types of playing styles. Some people like to stay back and do base security, others like to use sneaky tactics to hide in the bushes, some like to role play, and some like to rush right up the middle with guns blaring. Some like playing pump, others like playing semi. In scenario ball, a pump player is just as much of a threat to the other team as a player with an high-speed semi. With the mass numbers at the games, you'll always be able to find someone with the same playing style as yourself. At the end of the game, one team wins, one team loses, but there are never any sour grapes. After a week you forget the score, and all you remember are the war stories.

Scenario games are becoming more and more popular. Last year the IAO added a scenario game to the week's agenda, and lately scenario ball has made it into nearly every paintball magazine. We're beginning to see more scenario markers and products aiming directly towards scenario players. The Tac-One, VF Tactical, A5, and more markers are now available. We've hit a new stage in paintball. Scenario ball may soon meet up there with speedball in popularity.

AGD is being very smart with this move. The scenario market is still fairly open, and there is no one company or product dominating it. Scenario players demand quality and reliability, and I think that is where AGD can step in. Scenario teams are cheaper and more beneficial to sponsor. Less paint is shot at scenario games (usually), and entrance fees aren't extreme. Sure, a sponsor isn't going to be able to have their logo in bright colors across the player's chest and back, but I find that sponsored scenario players plug their sponsors honestly and only when necessary to help someone out.

As a big-time scenario player myself, I am happy to see AGD join the ranks more exclusively, and I hope to see you on the field. Was unfortunate that the Battle of the Potomac had to be postponed, I was looking forward to meeting you. Maybe next time.

[shivors]

The only possible downside of moving into scenario paintball is there really isnt anything that is critical for "scenario" marker.

Like we all know what people want/need in their "tournament" level marker....speed, weight, profile, etc. etc. but there is nothing that I can see that is really needed for scenario play. The sight rails are cool but the need for a laser sights, scopes, or NV equipment just really doesnt exist in my opinion.

[Tunaman]

True but a few hundred bucks is a heck of alot different than a quarter of a million bucks. AGD Pride was sponsored, so were the AGD kids, so is Clare. They've done well too. Heck I remember even hearing one of them mention that Strange had to adjust their game because of the volumes of paint the AGD team was laying down. However, this hasn't made a great deal of difference because of the negative connotation that is associated with Mags from 5-7 years ago.

Have you ever heard of DeWalt power tools? Did you know that DeWalt was Black and Decker's answer to the negativity surrounding their name? They are produced by the same company! At the time no self respecting construction worker would be caught dead with a tool from the same company that produced the Dust Buster. Point is they changed the name and color and guess what? DeWalt is now one of the tool companies of choice amongst construction workers.

So the question becomes what's in a name? I suspect that if the hAir were named the hAir Mag it would suffer because of the name. If it were called something like the Deadlywind it would sell like crazy and Tom could sell at a premium price because it would be new innovative technology (well to everyone but all of us die hard supporters :-)).De Walt tools suck. They are the crap of the crap. I wouldnt use one if someone gave it to me. I burn through 3-4 screwguns a year. I have used ALL of them. Cheaper is not better. Spend the money and get something that will last...like a MAG!

[Lohman446]

What most people have missed here (and these are as much guesses as actual knowledge).

TK could make living without ever making another paintball marker - they are deep enough into military and police training and weapon development that paintball I expect, is as much a hobby to TK as it is to some of us. That and Perfect Circle paintballs is likely profitable in itself.

TK has what a lot of paintball companies don't have, the luxury of being able to wait, to keep production at a minimum and wait for the dust to settle as others have said.

As for the tournament scene, why bother. Impies are still more popular than shockers, despite the fact Dynasty uses Shockers and used Angels to win with. Most people realize it is the skil, not the marker, that makes the team. And the tournament players account for little of PB overall market.

[gc82000]

I think it is great that AGD is going in a different direction. Is that not what the comapny is known for. Look at how the company started a single tubed marker. Never heard of when the sport started and very rare even for todays market. Lets just hope that this will not change with the new marker.
AGD is a great company we all can agree with that. Where else can customers get advice and technical help from a company's President or technicians. Nowhere that I have seen and this is a point that will keep costumers loyal as we all know.
As for the sport, it is still growing at an ever increasing rate. And the vast majority of players are in the Rec and Scenario areas. So concentration in this area is not a bad thing for any company. As for sponsoring tourney teams, yes, that will help but not in the direction that the company is trying to take.
Lets just hope that none of us see advertisors favorite words when trying to sell the new AGD guns. "New and improved" :D

[ronin]

lets all remember tom is a genious. its a good idea going for the rec players because thats where the money is only like 15-20% (not actual # but close )of the over all profit in the industry, the kinman analogy is not good the selling point for a spyder is that its cheap and so is the gun. (not a bad thing i have 2 ) i think tom is making a good decition turny play has and will keep changing very fast, it will eventually platue and tom will come out w/ something that changes the face of the game AGAIN! its happend befor and it will happen again......cant wait

[GoatBoy]

lets all remember tom is a genious. its a good idea going for the rec players because thats where the money is only like 15-20% (not actual # but close )of the over all profit in the industry, the kinman analogy is not good the selling point for a spyder is that its cheap and so is the gun. (not a bad thing i have 2 ) i think tom is making a good decition turny play has and will keep changing very fast, it will eventually platue and tom will come out w/ something that changes the face of the game AGAIN! its happend befor and it will happen again......cant wait

Scenario ball != rec ball.

[Jerhew]

By and large humans as a species do not like to find out their opinions are wrong. You can even prove it to them and the still won't like to admit it. It puts them into a state called cognitive dissonance. Meaning that even though they have been proven wrong, their mind still wants to believe that they were right.

hrm sounds like you've just defined pbnation... :D

sorry
but yeah i wish more people had such a deep understanding of this...
there'd be a lot less arguements, especially on internet paintball forums

obviously Tom knows exactly what he's doing...I imagine there's been many restless nights of sleep making the recent decisions that he's made...and I think if we give this a year or so we'll be able to look back and realize just how right he was...(atleast i hope so :) )
if the hair trigger comes out and is as good as it looks... I see great days ahead for AGD

[Mok_Star]

Tom...

My tourny team LOVES your marker, we use it all the time, as technology changed, of course some of our guys have switched to those, but the "MAG" has always been our primary and only back up...my primary for a long time was a RT with a Z-grip, which i still own and take with me to all tournies for a just incase marker, i use an e-mag as my primary, which by the way ROCKS, thanks to HAVOC-ONLINE....my team has, about 80%, agreed that if the deadlywind was to become a reality, we would use it, and the other 20% said they would if we were sponsored ( <--shameless plug :) )...

to those that say MAGS suck...opinions are like a$$holes..everyone has one and they all STINK....but there is a load of AGD loyaltist out there, alot still in the tourny scene....and if you don't remember, i was a ref at the Texas Throwdown, talked to you a bit...and the on the only tourny team sponsored by MXS, and an advid scenario player...so you know that scenario players want a marker that can deal with the heavy rain issue ( underwater hehehe ) and the long usage duration, so a battery-less, superfast mechanical would be a big seller in that market...but you already know that....

i have been an AGD fan since the early 90's, and always thought those that downed mags were just trying to justify a bad purchase...so i took a little offense the the idea that people think that the mag sucks....

i could go on for hours way the mag is better than other, we could break down the performance statistics of every marker on the market....the only thing i wish to say about all that is, every mag i have every own has worked...NONE have ever failed me...and i will use AGD markers till i can't play paintball anymore...keep them coming!!!!!

EXTREME AGD LOYALTIST FOR LIFE

[mixwell2]

Even todays new and young players have negative opinions regarding automags...Ex.

Two weeks ago at SC Village (So-CAL) I came back from a three on one, lucky, in the Arena. While the cheers from the side line felt good the quote from the opposing teams dead box hurt..."You guys just got your a** kicked by a fu**** automag"

After making over to the sidelines a few of the players struck up a conversation.
Many were suprised that I was using a mag. Many had negative opinions about the marker...I spent the next 5 or 10 minutes hyping the mag and the warp feed. Anyway I think that I may have changed some of their opinions.

What I am getting at is that it is up to all of us on the field using this excellent marker to try and change others perception. Many players approach me about the warp feed. This gives me the opportunity to hype the marker too.
It doesn't hurt to let them know that they just lost to that old, innefficient, heavy, inacurate, paint chopping automag.

[Silverback]

Concerning tournaments, we have not been able to change the minds of tourney players no matter what we did. The "mags suck" attitude would not go away.

TK (Sorry... MISTER PRESIDENT!),

Back in the day....("Start the "Way-back machine" Sherman...") That would be 1990, I used to laugh at the poor saps hiding behind their bunker, tree, rock, whatever, with their "Mags" torn apart in their laps as I thumped em, but good with my ever-trusty "Bushmaster" (The original pump-gun kids, not the pretender BM2K). I even saw a early Mag disgorge it's internal parts out the barrel.
We, (my Team mates of the time, Phantom Regiment - Black) went undefeated in the MSPA, in 1991, using "Tippmann 68-Specials", even though you had to shoot 20 balls just to get one to hit your target, (I think we coined the phrase, "Accuracy by Volume") we never-the-less laughed our asses off at the "Mags" and early-early "Autochoppers" because, at least the Tippmann worked, and we intimidated the hell out of everyone, with our cheap clunky guns.
Enter the 1992 Tournament season... We started getting our asses kicked by "68 Automags" that worked and were accurate as hell. Teams were just shooting into the clouds of CO2 Vapor, that the Tippmann put out (liquid CO2, don't ya know), and we were history, Due to the fact that we could afford new guns, was the only reason we held Second place that year.
After that EVERYBODY, was using "Mags", and they continued to gain popularity due to their construction, your tech backing, and their awesome accuracy.

So if you remember back to those days the "68 Automag" recovered from a much worse reputation than "Mags Suck", We all thought they were "Pieces of ****" at the time, but when they caught on... you couldn't make em fast enough.

Remember, despite the hype of some guns, players recognize a QUALITY PRODUCT, and when, and only when, Airgun Design markers are thumping up on the other guys will the tide turn.

I went to a field last week, in central CT., that I had never played. When I pulled out my RT, with it's Ice colored ULE body and polished 14" DYE barrel, all the players gathered around and wanted to know what type of marker I had. When I told them Automag RT, I got a bunch of "Oh yeah, I heard a them, you like it?" I just smiled and said, "Wouldn't have anything else." "Is it electonic?" "Hell, no, batteries are for HOPPERS, not markers!" Well at the end of that game and the next 6 after that, I had every player at this field, (Except the guy, who had just spent $1400.00 on a DM4, that I thumped all day.) wanting to try out my RT.

SO TOM... Don't abandon what works. When the tourny brats, start getting bunkered with RT's, or whatever the "next generation" Mag is, it WILL take over again. You just need to put it in the right hands.

[Iron Mag13]

Well TK i really dont care if you change the name to Pink Bunny or Blue Tigger or some chezzy name! as long as i have a) the reliable mech marker that the mag is with the hair trigger and such b) a very nice Scenario marker c) A KICKAS$ Electro to keep up with tourny. I really dont like the scenario kind of games, thats why i picked paintball over airsoft (UCKKKK i hate airsoft) yea dont get me wrong i like to play in the woods and all but tourny and x ball and rec is still what i love the best, i like scenario just not as much. i do want to go to D-Day reancatmint (not this year :( ) that looks awsome with the tanks but i dont care for the Stealth or the markers with little flashlights (thats kids play) i dont care for camafloge i care for speed lightweight, durible, and accurate! i use to play with a green spyder and my freinds would laugh cause they would be like " AHAHHHA we will be able to c u a mile away" i dont care if they c me 50000 miles away if i have the weight, speed, durablility, and accuret i can take them out! i am a very good player i have a 3 man and 5 man team with over 10 sponsers total i am experinced. so back to the point change the name i dont care! lay low i dont care! that will give me a chance to save up and when new stuff comes out to get it right away! as long as u have a elctro marker and a mech marker that is still like the AGD style and duriblity and a nice forum ill still like u. scenario is fine i dont care as long as there is still x ball and rec. thats all ia have to say!

Ps. Some of you ppl will get mad at me for my spelling and using inproper grammer well i DONT CARE! im out of school the last thing i need from u ppl is to critisice me on my grammer!

[spasticsquirrel]

i think that everyone on my field knows what an automag, and they respect it as a cocker, timmy, spyder, tippy, impulce, or whatever, and the thing they knew best was if you didnt lay down paint on me from the begining so i can't move and crap, i get to the snake and everyone is gone. :)
and if they did that, then my friend that was almost always on the other team would then shoot alot, but he wasn't as good with his A-5 than with his cocker. Lets see where mags are now

Weight :not the biggest problem, but now one of the lightest markers

Size: very tight and small and compact, my 12in scepter is longer than my mag

Ball breakage: If you have a LvX, and good paint, say goodbye to chopping

Accuracy: All markers are same, besides my A-5, that was messed up somehow, if you played metal gear solid and you know who fortune is, my shots were like i was aiming at her

Effiniency: This would be the last thing to touch up on, maybe some new valve thats larger, or a new kind of Lv bolt

Speed: What your touching up on right now, Hair trigger with make the fastest mech even faster, and you got those devil mag stuff, and e-mag bottom halfs, i wanna call it the e-mag A$$

recharge rate: the best right now, 26 bps easly, and when hooked up to a scuba tank *cough* *cough*, it can go higher.

Upgradability: Great, the upgrades are awsome, all of them are good exept for a couple *cough*ANS *cough*Smart Parts *cough*

is there anything else i haven't gotten to?

[Cool fool!]

hoocked on fonics werked fer mee! :D

[LONEWOLFOO1]

Man it will be cool if tom develop a marker something similair to the p90 submachine gun. or any gun that is similiar to the ats gun scenario players will jump on it. i know i would. i like that tac one but why isn't there a warp feed body for it?

i am waiting to buy a mag so whatever you decide i would be looking forward to your product until then i will use my bushmaster 2000 (yeah i mean 2000 thats the year i purchase the gun in the year 2000)

[Cyberious]

De Walt tools suck. They are the crap of the crap. I wouldnt use one if someone gave it to me. I burn through 3-4 screwguns a year. I have used ALL of them. Cheaper is not better. Spend the money and get something that will last...like a MAG!


No argument there but it did illustrate the gullability of the general public.

I do like the name Deadlywind though and think it would make a great name for a line of markers. Maybe Tom could buy that from nicad too.

Marker names could be stuff like:

Deadlywind
Divinewind
Breakwind (couldn't resist, although I'd buy one just for the name)

[slade]

Deadlywind
Divinewind
Breakwind (couldn't resist, although I'd buy one just for the name)

hmm... id just stick with deadlywind, its cool and it fits. divinewind sorta sounds like a perfume, and breakwind... like a jacket. although i think that actually would be a good idea to use the name deadlywind for the new product if Tom wants to drop the mag name...

[cledford]

I wonder if to a certain extent if the Airgun/AGD/Mag name doesn't still suffer some throw back from the Mag/Cocker days. Cockers were west coast guns and Mags east. Back then it was much easier to discern that the west coast guys could talk smack all day long (mags suck!) but in the end the 3 tourney guns (68 special, Cocker, mag & later to add the shocker and angel) but the mags could easily outshoot/out-perform the Tippmanns and the Cockers and still hold their own with the other 2.

Fast forward to today - with MANY more player in the market, some even with multiple entries (like Smart Parts) and multiple iterations (thing 9 kinds of Timmies) it is a LOT harder to fend off all of the smack when there are a number more markers to be competed against - even if you'd still win. Add on the fact (like it our not) much of the sport (along with every other "extreme" sport) is driven in large part from the west coast and you've got the guys who never did like mags (although their opinions weren't necessarily based on fact) winning the "last word" and getting their mis-information out there.

BTW, I think Airgun SHOULD STAY Airgun. The gun names can change. I like the Deadly Wind thing - it ties in with the power source for our markers (air).

I'm not sure laying low is going to help much, possibly for a while - but laying low was what happened when the mag name really started to decline in the first place - while the development of the FN303 was going on.

-Calvin

[trevorjk]

to much argueing... not enough of giving trevor sweet paintball stuff for free :)

[gc82000]

Deadlywind
Divinewind
Breakwind (couldn't resist, although I'd buy one just for the name)
hahhahaha :p
And I bet you trried so hard not to though.
And the slogan for the Break wind gun would be "where quality always shoots down wind" . :D

[Silverback]

Since the history buffs seem to be taking a vacation, let the old guy remind you young bucks that the Japanese word "KAMIKAZE" means "Divine Wind". So it would be a suitable name for a front players marker.

Just a thought.

[Cyberious]

Since the history buffs seem to be taking a vacation, let the old guy remind you young bucks that the Japanese word "KAMIKAZE" means "Divine Wind". So it would be a suitable name for a front players marker.

Just a thought.

I wondered if someone would catch that :-)

[bunker17]

yep anyone who read and understand japanese history :p

[68magOwner]

or anyone that went to highschool and took US or world history :rolleyes:

[Jack_Dubious]

but in the end the 3 tourney guns (68 special, Cocker, mag & later to add the shocker and angel) but the mags could easily outshoot/out-perform the Tippmanns and the Cockers and still hold their own with the other 2.


Hey now...dont forget the PMI-3 (vm-68)! I remember the All Americans winning a few with the trusty ole PMI-3, and thier new high tech spiral ported rifled barrels (patent pending).;) Gimme a PMI-3 over a 68 Special anyday!

JDub

[Silverback]

If-in I'm recalling correctly, and most of the time I do... The PMI-3 was also the only gun to OUT WEIGH the 68 Special. then when ya added the 20 oz. tank, a barrel, and a hopper full of paint, you needed two people to lug the thing around!!

It was fairly reliable though.

... And it did weigh alot... may not so it took two people to carry, just one body builder with a tactical sling would work. :D

[bunker17]

History a good class to sleep :D

[Big Head]

The promblem with "MAGS SUCK" is that people that think that have never even gased a MAG up! I've been playing this "GAME" since 93' and Mags are the only guns I have ever owned! I played with every other gun out there, but the money I spend is on AGD. Angels Timmy's Shockers and every electro on the marker....you can have them!! When they have promblems....there done....Mags have promblems.....give me 5 mins. and I back up and running!! The best thing is playing and kicking everybodys butt with my "sucky Mag" or waiting for a game to start and a bunch of players coming by wondering what the heck kind of marker I have! I hope you "AGD" build a super Mech Gun....and have the same quality as the rest of your products!! AGD for life!!

[Scott Hudnall]

I've been a tournament and rec player since 1992. When we migrated to 'mags back then, we started winning. I've gone through 2 shockers since....now I'm back to an ancient mag which I love. I'm sorry to see that Tom has chosen the phrase "demise" to describe the automag/minimag line. I think it should continue, if cost feasible......keep the upgrades....it's a great product. Work on a new product....cool....the ULE line is great and the new body styles coming out that you see online are cool. I like the Xmag's breach design....could keep that.

The 'mag valve being old skool technology? hardly. it's so far ahead of the curve that it's scary!!!!! The other companies would kill to have the patent on the 'mags valve design.

my 2 cents. former paintball businessman. certainly not uninformed. keep the faith.

[Head knight of Ni]

Why get rid of the Mag name? Did anyone else think spinoff. Not many people know who is behind function, but would still buy their products. Don't let the Mag die!!! :eek:
Viva le 'Mag! Viva le AGD!!

[Shykicker]

Perhaps something more derivitive, abeit devoid of "mag"? Auto-something.

I dunno, I got nuthin'. :D

Just, the last thing I want to see is something following suit with small animal names, or something like that. No AGD Cobras please!

As for what AGD is doing in the future...

Any chance of a line of 'Cocker threaded barrels to match the ULE's?

[Silverback]

The promblem with "MAGS SUCK" is that people that think that have never even gased a MAG up! I've been playing this "GAME" since 93' and Mags are the only guns I have ever owned! I played with every other gun out there, but the money I spend is on AGD. Angels Timmy's Shockers and every electro on the marker....you can have them!! When they have promblems....there done....Mags have promblems.....give me 5 mins. and I back up and running!! The best thing is playing and kicking everybodys butt with my "sucky Mag" or waiting for a game to start and a bunch of players coming by wondering what the heck kind of marker I have! I hope you "AGD" build a super Mech Gun....and have the same quality as the rest of your products!! AGD for life!!

I have always been amazed at how players will slam a product they have never even picked up, much less used.

They say, "Oh my friend had one, and he said it sucked." I want to back-hand them for talking stupid. :mad:

Players have criticized my Mag, even after they watch it work. I gave a demonstration one time to a bunch of people who said that "Mags break paint." one person even took it further and said that the "Smart Mag" was garbage. :nono: So I asked them if they had any old paint laying around. One person had some stuff, I don't even know what it was, but it looked like it had been stored in the frig. They looked more like little golf balls, and I could easily break them in my hand. So I put about a hundred of these balls in my hopper (Turned off, so as not to break em) And fired the whole mess through my mag without a break. :wow: I had to be carefull not to chop one but they all fired, one broke about half way down the barrel, but nothing in the breech. And this was YEARS before LVL 10.

I've also been told I couldn't shoot EVIL or HELLFIRE, I love the stuff!! and so does my Mags.

Just goes to show that rumor and gossip rule the world.

Tom, You and everyone at AGD... Keep up the fine work, we'll keep buying your product.

Speaking of which... Does anyone know where I can pick up a "Micro CA"?

[Intellimag]

Whoa! I had no idea AGD sponsored Bad Karma! Thats my local team! But also im cofused because I also had no idea Karma had a scenario team. Hmmm. Oh well....Thats awesome!

Later :headbang:

[UltraMag527]

Two thumbs up for Tom and the team! I only know two markers in the paintball arena that to me has proven time and time again. Mags and Cockers. I have both and proud of it!

[Iron Mag13]

WOOOOOOOOT 100th post.....oh....yea GO TK!


Edit:nm someone got to me to early :(

[steveo356]

as far as the name changing least people wont end up at car sites or rims when there lookin for the good ol agd webby.

as for lying low idc as long as he comes back

love the low price strategy ;-)

n cant go wrong the the hair trigger i will most definently use when it comes out , but ill wait a bit for the bugs to get ironed out

[Darkstorm]

Tom, :hail:, you make a great gun in the mechanical mag. I could have any gun I want and choose to play with a mechanical mag/x value. I don't get to play all the time and I want a great gun that ALWAYS works. Because it is consistent and never chops, I never have a problem in a game.

If you don't get to play as much as you want, and need a gun that always works, mechanical mag is the only way to go.

Darkstorm
(This product endorsement is now over and I return you to your regularly scheduled forum.)

[sporty86]

I have owned a mag for 9 yrs. now and have played tourneys for jus as long. The big problem wit the Mag is it got ugly as it got better. Hello here's the RT mag and it morphadite sightrail and ugly *** foregrip. Then we put out the e-mag, OMG, whats with the batterie thing, hahahahahaahhahahaha, joke. Oh yea and then u have the diehard mag owners and I think some of the very friendly, hehe, techs at AGD telling u that bolting on any other after market products is stupid and wrong, that helped. If it wasn't such a breeze to work on I would have traded up a long time ago. The ULE body helped me out allot, just the other day while I was playin at a local tourney a kid that shoots a DM4 asked someone what kind of gun I switched 2 cause I was "Slinging paint out like a madman". Oh yea the Hyper frame and Halo helped out allot also. Along with scrappin the name scrap some of the design (esthetics) crew and bring in some new young blood. Pump out a few new tricked out, full of color and crazy milled gunz every once and a while (not every 4 yrs) n watch them fly off the shelf. People want somtin they can work on and that looks sexy, ewww I said it, but thats what they want. Tom, give them what they want.

With love,
Philly Phil

[Miscue]

AGD Railgun! Everybody knows what a railgun is, and it brings back lots of positive - fond memories from sniping people with railguns in popular video games.

You need at least a 2-3 syllable name (also anticipating a shorter nickname, like Automag = Mag, Intimidator = Timmy) such that you can't attach the 'sucks' at the end. "Mags suck" rolls off the tongue really easily - seriously. :D

If the AutoMag was called the Sasquatch, nobody would say Sasquatchs suck because it's too hard and too long to say!

The marker needs to be what is popularly considered "low pressure" regardless of the lack of performance gains. It must be done to sell. This would mean the X-Valve, etc. would have to be ditched as we know it. If it sacrifices recharge rate - nobody cares or really understands what it is anyway. 99% of people out there have no clue as to what = performance, except for how fast it shoots and perception. It does not need to recharge to 26bps w/o dropoff. 16-18 is perfect, if this results in a cheaper/simpler regulator.

Needs an LX-II: Updated version of LX that works even better.

Gotta get rid of the long hose, run air through body. If you don't, people will make fun of it and call it stupid!

Need to organize mech only tournies, and form a monopoly in the scenario scene. Hell, just ask IAO/etc. to have a mech only division and see what they can do. Heck, the AO representation alone I think would result in a good number of people showing up. POG, etc. would probably also be interested. Cockers, Spyders, Mags, new AGD pending AGD marker... wouldn't that be a cool tourny?

[Blazestorm]

Definately... that or limit paint.

I miss the days when tournies were about who was the better player and who made the smarter move... not who can shoot the fastest or convince the ref the best.

Mech Tournies :cheers:

[Miscue]

Definately... that or limit paint.

I miss the days when tournies were about who was the better player and who made the smarter move... not who can shoot the fastest or convince the ref the best.

Mech Tournies :cheers:

I found it more enjoyable when we were all using mechs, back in the day. Electros are cool - in a way it brings new stuff to the game, but it also takes things away.

[BlackVCG]

Blah... Blah... Blah. I'm sure there's some small following of auto-racers out there that think all these electronic shift controls in F1 racing is taking away from the sport and auto-racing should go back to manual shifting.

The simple fact is, as long as the consumers have the money to buy the technology, engineers will keep innovating new technology that will change the way we play our sports.

I'd be willing to put money down that you'll never see mech-only tournies in any NPPL, PSP or other high-end tournament series. We're just going to need to produce mech guns that are as fast and easy to shoot as electros and they will slowly take over a portion of the market.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

call "it", well..whatever "it" ends up being...call it the Panther...nuff said. (and claps for those that even know why I picked that name).

[rx2]

I would also think that the Panther name would serve well, if revived. Paintball history buffs would probably pick up on it, and the average buyer would most likely never equate it with Automags, thus serving two-fold in your scheme.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I only posted a thread on this six months ago...but then again I was never cool at the right time in real life either..

[sporty86]

Mech only, that kind of talk is why people make fun of mag owners.

[thei3ug]

I say ditch the spring return.

[NoFearPaintballer]

why not just a AGD airgun for a name

[DiRTyBuNNy]

umm...nah...Panther would be better...if of course we couldn't call it El Chupacabra...

[LONEWOLFOO1]

I love to get a automag but with so many versions of the mag out right now you are confuseing the crap out of new guys that want your products. i will just wait to see what gun you produce next and me and my friends will buy it.

if somebody new was to get in the game and wanted the latest and high tech gun from agd which one should i tell them to buy now?

Level 10
X-Valve
Intelliframe
ULE Trigger Pull Kit
Y-Grip
ace

there so many options (i am not complaining) it may be a little intimadeting for the first time buyer. i had a friend and call and he said to me what do i need what should i buy? if a new guy feels confused about buying your product chances are they will not.

[player4]

I think that when the hair trigger production begins, agd should advertise their gun saying, "The new generation of automags" This way paintballers would beleive agd has made a new gun, when in reality the gun will be a mag with the new trigger.

The gun would be interesting too if agd stated all of the mags features:

*( first of all the mag in the advertisment would be a mag with the hair trigger, dye sticky threes, a karta body, and agd would create a more attratice, sleeker foregrip. For the looks of course.)
*26 pbs capable with no measureable shot down
*(list weight.)
*(list the trigger pull, which might be different than right now)
*mechanical trigger frame (then give some detail about how relible the mags are, and how their water resistant and can be shot under water. Some details like that)
*some more attractive details

If agd would advertise their guns as being "the new generaton" maybe paintballers would give the new mag a try; especially at the awesome low prices

just my two cents

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I think that when the hair trigger production begins, agd should advertise their gun saying, "The new generation of automags" This way paintballers would beleive agd has made a new gun, when in reality the gun will be a mag with the new trigger.

The gun would be interesting too if agd stated all of the mags features:

*( first of all the mag in the advertisment would be a mag with the hair trigger, dye sticky threes, a karta body, and agd would create a more attratice, sleeker foregrip. For the looks of course.)
*26 pbs capable with no measureable shot down
*(list weight.)
*(list the trigger pull, which might be different than right now)
*mechanical trigger frame (then give some detail about how relible the mags are, and how their water resistant and can be shot under water. Some details like that)
*some more attractive details

If agd would advertise their guns as being "the new generaton" maybe paintballers would give the new mag a try; especially at the awesome low prices

just my two cents

I can't disagree more highly with what you say...when the hAir is released it shouldn't mention AGD or Automags at all....what most people on here seem to be myopic about is that the rest of the paintball world thinks that "Automag = junk". I would take your initial statement and reword it as "The New Generation of Semi-Auto Paintmarkers"...

[rx2]

Agreed with above - Tom's belief, and it is one that has been proven over and over, is that no matter what he does to change the stigma of the Mag, it will ALWAYS be there. It doesn't matter how many things change, or how much he tries to beat it into the heads of those who still don't get it. You could probably have a completely different setup, but, with the Mag name, the stigma would remain. Drop the name, and drop the stigma, or so it is in theory. Actually, I wonder if even the AGD badge would have to change in order to really get people with a low opinion of Mags to try one of Tom's markers, although I am not one of those people, so I don't know how far they take it. Only time will tell.

[Jaremy Rykker]

But why keep the main momentum going at the tournament market like that. The thing that really sold me on AGD was that they were the only ones in the entire market who used logic and reasoning in their marketing (excluding a few things Tippmann has done). Everybody else throws out "x regulator outperforms y regulator" or "a barrel has more range than b barrel," but they don't have their own Deep Blue forum to discuss these sort of very technical issues, especially including the low pressure setups which aren't really the advantage they are claimed as. So, the fact that AGD really cared about the actual fundamentals of paintball rather than the rhetoric and latest craze really impressed me. It might not impress every hot young gunslinger who wants to go out and blast away with his supposedly 30 BPS fully automatic paintball marker, but I've really been impressed by the intellect showen here, as well as the fact that Tom Kaye is very active in the forums and takes advice from his consumers.

Secondly, although I understand that you tournament players want to keep your automags up, I'd personally recommend that TK focuses on a single team that continues to perform, and keep a line of tourney automags or whatever new name they come to bear. Kamikaze isn't a bad name, although I dislike Deathwind because it bears to much resemblance to what plagues paintball's public relations (death, violence, guns).

Instead of trying to continue in the tourney market, which is honestly fairly small in paintball, I would recommend that AGD enters the rec-ball and scenario market. It is a very big market, and scenario events which have grown rapidly regularly draw hundreds of people. Big games as well typically draw hundreds, and these are fairly common (as in my area which isn't that big yet, we have at least 5-6 throughout the summer that I intend to go to). AGD could enter this market, sponsor several AGD teams which would generally be 5-10 man teams to use their markers and require them to wear perhaps some AGD shoulder patch on their camoflauge, which should be matching to distinguish them as a unit(perhaps MARPAT or Tigerstripe as it looks pretty sweet). Scenario players generally get a lot of first hand contact with the other players at events as compared to speedball, and as such would provide a great venue for advertising your products. Honestly, as much as Tourney paintball has people who spend a ton, it is a very competitive market with a ton of competing products, and would not be nearly as profitable as the scenario market which is rapidly growing and lacks much competition (excluding Tippmann).

So, keep up on all your doing AGD.

[player4]

I like your post but...........


a line of tourney automags or whatever new name they come to bear. Kamikaze isn't a bad name, although I dislike Deathwind because it bears to much resemblance to what plagues paintball's public relations (death, violence, guns).

It's ok to have a gun gun called a kamikazi, but you think deadlywind is to violent? That's an oximoron; it doesn't add up. I think the new name for mags should be something way different then that. Again though, nice post.

[Meph]

I have to back AGD on their stance w/ the tournament/scenario scene. About pretty much turning a blind eye to tourny and embracing scenario with open arms. Why? Pretty simple stereotype that I'm sure people will argue but I believe holds very true in most cases.

Tournament players want their stuff now, and they don't want to pay for it. They'll use your stuff if it's free to them.
Scenario players see your stuff, like your stuff, and they'll say "how much?" while pulling out the wallet.

That right there is the main difference. Multiply those scenario player wallets by oh.... the majority of the paintball community. And you realize what's really keeping the industry as large as it is. Recball/scenario/big game players. Tournament players are the facelifted posterboys for magazines so we look PC to lil' Billy's mom so he can come out and play with us. Not to bash tournament like it's evil, it has it's place and always will. To me can be as fun as any other game, sometimes even a bigger rush when it's a major event I'm playing. Just some people need to realize a few things on where it all stands.

AGD is pulling some of the smartest moves lately that I've seen in a while. And sure it sucks to be doing the "leave the 'mag' name behind" thing but brainwashed people stay that way. People won't change their thought on it, put an AGD sticker on an 03shocker and call it an E-mag and you'll get negative comments from people without them even shooting it. They won't even realize it's a Shocker! They associate that "mag" name with junk/garbage/chop/whatever. However in turn hand them a mag but call it I dunno a "GAM" let them use it, they'll probably be impressed and want one. Though that would be the ultimate irony.

[jewie27]

The hAir trigger will be out this year and after the SP deal AGD may introduce a new electro marker down the line. That's all i've heard so far.