The Skill Gap (ohh yes its long)

[GT]

Background:
I have been playing for about 5 years now. I started playing in the woods at a really small feild. I, ofcourse, did the typical nnob steps from spyders to tippys to mags. The sametime I started playing woods I began playing speedball and love it. Played one local tourney and one first place.

Fast foward to AO-Txball. I took four guns with me up to DFW with me; Emag, RTP, Works Cocker, and a classic mag. I got the emag flashed, its a buds emag here in houston, and then proceeded to play a few games. I went up to DFW with full intetions to prove something to myself, I didnt need a firepower crutch to get elims. So for the remainder of the weekend I played solely with my classic mag, only mods are a 2x benchy and a ULT.

When I came back to houston, playing with and aganist some great guys on AO, my game had improved. So much so I sold my whole fleet of markers and purchased an RTP a month ago from tuna. Even with the RTP I still do pretty dam well, not to say its muppet mowing machine like an e/x.... but I was pulling more than enough guys off the feild.

The Skill Gap
Here is the problem, when I go out to play I dont get my moneys worth anymore. Meaning, for the most part, that Rec is not paying off for me in terms of increasing skill level.

As I can see it the only way I will get better is to jump into the tourney circuit, read here NOT CHEAP. Problem is I am not sure if I want to take paintball to that level yet. My big concern is burnout and being unable to enjoy paintball. TO be perfectly honest I could sell my viking, I dont even have yet, and play the rest of my rec days with a classic mag.

The Point
I have been struggling with this notion for a few weeks now and I didnt want to post on AO in fear of sounding like an e-badass. I would really like some advice from guys who have been playing for 5+ years on what they do to keep the game fun and challenging.

[kosmo]

Well theres several options. Ive been playing since 95, and one thing that got more and more appealing to me was getting a pump to play rec with. Its a great way to emphasize movement and agility in your game because even a 98 can outgun you, unless you get obsessed with upgrading your pump cuz you can get some that shoot very fast. Another thing I would reccomend is scrimmage against other teams in your area. Arrange a club or something of skilled players to go and practice against each other at a tourney skill level on a rec field. Another thing that would help, and many other people would appreciate, is to help the recballers at your field. Coach and assist them in getting better at their game so you have people closer to your level to play with. Heck, maybe you could even start a charge for lessons program that would help pay for more tourney ball. But theres plenty to do to improve yourself and vary your experiences.

[dave_p]

ive been playing since late 97. i go to the local indoor field on sundays and try to do what the previous poster suggested. i hang with the guys who would get tore up on pbn for being noobs and play against the big bad newbie bashers. i play with an A.I.R. valved minimag against anything, i dont care. i try to be as aggressive as possible and move as much as possible. when i get lit up, i figure out why and adjust to prevent the same situation from occuring again. believe it or not i do better against the older, more experienced players with better equipment most of the time. tournament players sometimes get caught up in these methods and drills and formulas. they almost see inside the box instead of outside. its predictable. you know where they are gonna lane and sweetspot. newbs see no box, they make it up as they go. its unpredictable.

certain individuals take themselves too seriously. im sure you see the type. all the kids and squids are ooohing and aaahing in hushed whispers as the "sponsored" guy/guys show up. the key is to play with them for a few games, get their mindset, and play against them the rest of the day and slaughter them.

[Carbon]

he Point
I have been struggling with this notion for a few weeks now and I didnt want to post on AO in fear of sounding like an e-badass. I would really like some advice from guys who have been playing for 5+ years on what they do to keep the game fun and challenging. well, im at that point too, your best bet for self improvemnet, maybe is to hookup with a team member and see if you can run skirmishes. against their team.

[Tyger]

Play pump. It DOES improve your skills, and it WILL humble you when you realise how much paint you normally shoot.

Not to mention that there's no better feeling than when you snapshoot a guy with your SC Phantom in front of all his teammates. Never lives it down...

-Tyger

[eric]

Get a pump for rec.

I know what you mean though not much of the rec play around here is good. Try giving tips to up and coming players, help them improve, pretty soon theyll be shooting you.

Theres alot of good teams from texas, find one and get in on some practices with em.

[Digits]

step up and play tournies if you want to get better.. If there are no good local teams you can practice with that is your only choice...

And get a good group of guys on your team and you won't burn out..

[RusskiX]

As I can see it the only way I will get better is to jump into the tourney circuit, read here NOT CHEAP. Problem is I am not sure if I want to take paintball to that level yet. My big concern is burnout and being unable to enjoy paintball. TO be perfectly honest I could sell my viking, I dont even have yet, and play the rest of my rec days with a classic mag.


You won't know unless you try it! I say try tourney ball and see what happens. The worst thing is you get burned out after a year, sell all your stuff, and go back to the woods.

The bottom line is if playing competitive ball makes you happy, just do it. Personally, I've been playing since '89 and never had the urge to play tourney ball, because I'm satisfied by just running around the woods. It's all about enjoying the hobby. If you aren't having fun, do something different. Good luck!

[Fred]

Been there... but I got to the limit of my first gun about a year in... so I started playing pump...

4 years later...

I'm back to semi (still like the pumps... but needed a change again), and learning new stuff on top of my pump shooting skills.

---Fred

[LittlePaintballBoy]

I haven't been playing nearly as long as some of you guys, (I know some popele here have been playing for longer than I have been alive) but it still isn't as challenging as it used to be at my close field. You always get a few really good guys that either grind you into the ground or are on the same level as you, but my answer to it was just drive a little bit longer and go to my other local field where there is more competition. Or you could just ask a team if you can practice with them, but not be on the team roster. I hope i'm still playing for as long as some of these people have been, it's really cool.

[punkncat]

The Point
I have been struggling with this notion for a few weeks now and I didnt want to post on AO in fear of sounding like an e-badass. I would really like some advice from guys who have been playing for 5+ years on what they do to keep the game fun and challenging.

I can relate to what you are saying.
I have been playing ball for around the same amount of time. Often I find "Open" play/walk on games to lack the challenge I desire. Its not every Saturday or Sunday that enough of the experianced players will come and make you play your A game.
I mean it like this , you get loose playing with people who are not as good as you. If you do it often enough it will actually damage your "competitive" game. Thus why you don't see a great deal of tourney players participating in open play.
What happens is (generally) you get a bunch of newbies that come out to play , learn to play better , get caught up in the tourney scene , move on to that or get burned out and quit playing. In the meantime you have the regulars that just like to get a game on. Kinda like you or me......
.....to answer the question. I like to play hopper ball in open play. Just take one hopper of paint. Pick up all the "muppets" your team can stand. Make sure and keep one or two good guys to cover each other. Sit back and general the field of noobs against the other team. Take a few well placed shots from time to time to keep heads down, but using care not to use all the hopper. Its quite a challenge and a lot of fun.

[-=Squid=-]

Catch me on aim sometimes if you want. I could share a few words.

[GoatBoy]

I think I'm experiencing roughly the same thing as you, gtrsi.

I've been considering tournament play as well. My problem is that I really do not get along very well with most tournament players. I just can't deal with it. I don't know if this is just a Texas thing or if it's a tournament phenomenon in general.

A couple things I've been doing... Go out and play hopperball. Don't wear a pack. Drop back to a 50 round hopper. Try playing pump. If nothing else, it will reduce your paint usage. If you don't think you're getting your money's worth, you can always reduce the amount of money you spend :D

I also almost always join the team that gets stacked against.

One of the things I love to do is go out and try to make people (guys with electros in particular) waste paint -- like, play aggressively enough to make them shoot at you, but not aggressively enough to take them out quickly.


This is not unlike other sporting activities; if you have to train with someone who's less skilled than you, you can still benefit by limiting yourself and focus on one particular technique.

[AGDlover]

i lover working off myself and watching pros go at it to try different things. you really have to be open with yourself to get better when you get done playing go over in your mine what you did good and what you did bad. if you did something bad just don't do it again. if you do something good think bout adding some tricky little thing that would work as an advantage. watch the pros. watch there fourm and how they move up and watch out for eatch other. just the little thing you have to watch out for and if you aclomplish that you become better and better and you try new things and thats how you'll be better at what you do.

[Major Jam]

Another thing to try is 2 on 1 (you) and 3 on 1 (you) drills. That helps you in the end game and some times you can pull it out.

[CodeMA]

well, Bro... I stopped playing true rec on a regular bases ages ago, I have the luxury of being near a feild with very few noobs ever showing, and generally with guys that have played longer then me, and have been in the tourney scean longer...if Im not playing with them Im off somewere else praticeing, so I guess that keeps me from ever being truely bored...

Ive also picked up a pump as you already know, not the best, but still quite nice(and nicer once I get it the way I want it) to play around with when Im not praticeing(and possibly when, depends what mood Im in I guess) for that extra challenge factor...

Im going to have to say keep 1 high end tourney quality marker and get a decent pump, drop more cash into each with the proceeds from the mid level markers, go find a local 3 man and start rocking the tourney scean, if nothing else, hit the pratices, step back from rec for a month or two... if you have the need/cash to play a little rec, do so with the pump...

Dont go to the same feild constantly, it will burn you out faster as well, play with diffrent people, diffrent setups, etc it helps, viriety is the spice of life after all...

Oh and if you find yourself playing rec, have them stack teams against you take two more, play 5 of them or something similar... Also find a place to reff some, theres something about it that seems to keep you fresh and wanting to play, I think its the getting shot up and not being able to shoot back factor :D


Sniper King, I dont beleive he was asking for playing tips at all... :rolleyes:

[Lee]

been playing off and on for 16 years and pump is still where it's at. get a decent one (i reccomend snipers) and take on any and all.

[bryceeden]

I know what you mean, my team and I outnumber ourselves 6 to 1 in bith woodsball and speedball and still always win. The solution is SC phantoms the game is ALOT more challenging with a pump against all the trickd out tourney guns and you get alot better very quickly. I would however suggest you try afew big tourneys and see what you think.

[the electrician]

well you said something about money. if that is a main issue, along with wanting to improve your playing and still have fun, I like pump for that purpose. you can play against others who are using semi, it makes you improve your game, you shoot less, spend less, and it is an absolute blast. especially when you goggle someone with a (~insert favorite electro gun here~).

personally, I want to enjoy paintball on my own time, no team practices or have-to-attend events. I just plain can't commit to that, too many resposibilties already (new baby boy and such). most of the time it's about building something that does it for me.

you can try pump, see if you like it. it won't cost you alot to try it. you can always go back to semi, or try tournaments afterwards if it just doesn't do it for you.

[GT]

Awsome posts guys this is the reason I am an AO'er. I see a few action items here that might make a pretty concise summery (sorry guys my spelling is painfully bad, I have not had a chance to load Word on this rig)

Possible Action Items
1. Get a group of good guys togther for play (I think this might go nicely with a monthly AO-Tx mini-meets bewteen austin, houston, san antonio, and dfw. If we all stay at eachothers houses it would greatly decrease the costs)
2. buy a pump
3. start practicing with a few local teams
4. Go out of my way to help the noobs out
5. Start playing a few local tourneys this comming season
6. hopperball

Little note about money:
I dont think I made that point clear, its not an issue of afforability rather value. Inother words if I am spending 2-500 per month playing deep into the tourney season and seeing little return, I will become very concerned.

When a hobby becomes that expensive with little bennifit I become very concerned, besides I could go back to racing cars for that kind of cash.


p.s. I will catch you online sometime squid...

[MaChu]

Lets see, my first paintball game was when I was ten...so 1998? 3 years I played recball at a local place called Crossfire. Then the owners and the team were impressed with my aggressiveness that they put me up on their team. For 2 years I played some local tournaments, played in the Pure Energy 5 man, or was it the PMI, I forgot. Then I burned out. I haven't played for a year, it just got too expensive. But Im coming back in soon, hooray!

Advice for getting in the tournament mode:
1.Get Noticed
If you want to lighten the load on your pocket book then get noticed by a local team that has some store/manufacturer sponsorships. They will pay for your entry, air and sometimes if your lucky a few cases of paint for your team to split. To get recognized, play smart, make some impressive, awe inspiring moves.

2.Train
Yes, this may sound like overkill but it does help when your down 2 players and its 5v3, in the final minute of the qualifying round, and you have run yourself ragged. Go run some miles, do wind sprints(this helps alot getting to the fifty), diet, do some weight training, not a lot, you don't want to be bulky and slow on the field. Do some practices with local teams in their 1v1, 2v1, snap shooting exercises, 30 sec countdown, etc.

3.HAVE FUN
Even with all the playing tournaments, don't forget to have fun with your teamates. I burned out because I didn't, it just wasn't that fun to play when half the time you hate 2 people on your team that just curse and blame everything on something. I made a mistake of putting my team before my friends who played recball and I payed dearly for it. In the end, try to get some friends or make friends on that team, or you will burn out quick.

[bunkerhugger]

Pick skills to practice if - off hand shooting, crawling, small bunker, one bunker for the whole game - then do only that for weeks at a time.

You don't have to play tournaments to get the thrill - be a walk on at tourney practice. All the skill improvements at half the cost.

Scenario games - get on the goofy side of paintball. See what you can do with costumes, specialized gadgets, etc.

Renegade - it's always fun to go out and find your own field, and play while praying the cops don't come.

[slade]

Renegade - it's always fun to go out and find your own field, and play while praying the cops don't come.

my friend and i got kicked out of our outlaw field after almost a year of working on it... it was small, but was actually better made than most outdoor fields ive been to... :mad:

[judster]

well i guess ill go against the grain here and say try scenarios. ive been playing sence 92 and just like you and a bunch of others here, got to the point where rec play was boreing. i tried tourneys and it just wasnt my thing, however scenario ball is. its like nothing you have ever done dude. it will not drain your pocket book and its an entire weekend of fun with 100-500 of your friends. give me a shout if your intrested i can point ya in the right direction to scenarios and im here in houston as well.
email: judster@scenarionews.com
AIM: atmcwedg
im always willing to talk about scenarios

[Lohman446]

I will have to admit that I am not at the skill level that a lot of you guys are at on this, and going to my local field can still prove to be quite a challenge. Of course my local field has some extremly good and extremely experienced players on it. The question becomes why do you play paintball - I play it as much for the friendships I have at the field as for the game - there are days I go to the field without a marker.

And I agree with what a lot of the people said on this one - when you play rec, don't be so serious. The moves that are desperation moves in tournaments are fun in rec - and they will get you noticed. Play a different position - I used to whine about my backplayers lack of communication until I played back a few games - its harder than it looks. Practice something different - play one game with your offhand entirely. I have gone as far as putting broken paint into my hopper to deal with or causing a barrel break before the start of a game - these are things you might end up dealing with on field, and skills seldom practiced. Pump play is great, you learn a lot about the field with it, at least I did. Play in the woods... try taking the flag while firing the minimum number of shots possible and try to improve on that (zero btw, I have done it with zero shots fired). Try to bunker as many people as possible in the woods and get them to surrender. Play scenarios - and get one good player who does not mind eliminations to hang with you - then be your own "team" and see how many objectives you can accomplish by doing things in an odd way. For example Excalibur in Battle Creek has a back way around the village - if you climb down the drainage ditch and dont mind going through some thick brush you can come up behind the first flag station, off to the edge of the reinsertion point and ambush everyone watching the other way.

[Recon by Fire]

Possible Action Items
1. Get a group of good guys togther for play (I think this might go nicely with a monthly AO-Tx mini-meets bewteen austin, houston, san antonio, and dfw. If we all stay at eachothers houses it would greatly decrease the costs)
3. start practicing with a few local teams
5. Start playing a few local tourneys this comming season



I'm your Huckleberry :D GTRSI, lets you, Jason, and I get together (and anyone else) and run some 3 man scrimages. I saw Jason last wekend BTW and we got in a few games.

I agree the rec-ball generally is not going to increase your skill level. Sometimes it is hard to get in any practice time with the teams when you are not on one, some don't want walk-ons interferring with their practice and some you'd just rather not socialize with anyway. I have always heard playing against those btter than you, is the best way to improve. Anyways, if you ask me the bottom line is all about the enjoyment factor.

[GT]

I'm your Huckleberry :D GTRSI, lets you, Jason, and I get together (and anyone else) and run some 3 man scrimages. I saw Jason last wekend BTW and we got in a few games.



I would have been there last weekend but I was in S. Padre. When I meet you out there about a month ago I had a blast.

judster:
Where the hell have you been, lol? I find more and more AO'ers live in houston that I have never meet.

Here is what I am going to do: I want to start an email list serve with all of our AO kin. We can send emails out to each other when alot of us will be out at the feild. This maybe a great opertunity for all of us to play with some of the more mature pb'ballers out there. It will also put some of us who may want to play tourneys intouch with eachother.

[brightman]

I agree with recon, we need to get out and run three man scrimages, no 15 on 15...recon we are going out on the 13th?...not this sunday but the next so you can shoot me a few more times...

[Vanced]

This is my 14th year playing Paintball ... and I played a little of just about everything ... and the only advice I can say is no matter what level or style of paintball you are playing just always ask yourself are you truely having fun ...

I have seen tourny guys get totally caught up in numbers, odds, stratigies, and win at all cost and start fighting among teamates and long time friendships get busted up ... or spend every penny they got or have paintball cause major family problems at home...

I have seen guys obsessed with their skills and kills that they have ran many a newbie off the field bonus balled nearly to death only to send them home crying never to come back ...

But I have also seen teams of "FRIENDS" that play a few tournies every year and still love it... or the same group of guys that for one weekend put their lives on hold to go grab some rentals and cook up some hot dogs for a day of it...

Or Guys who loan their higher end gear to so and so's little brother so he can have more fun as they play with their pump or what ever...

I am a very laid back person by nature... and I can say I have been blessed to have a circle of a dozen or so guys I have been playing on and off with for years... and it is just all about friendship and bragging rights... and bottom line having fun...

So when you go to field ... try all the suggestions made by others... they will over all cost you little if anything at all ... and just ask yourself are you having fun ... and adjust what you are doing one way or another ... and this will change often... as you get older and your proirties change...

If it is playing at a higher level ... against better players or against better gear... or taking the time to help out the less experinced or younger players to bring them up to provide a better challege for you ... It just all boils down into what type of person you are and what pushes your buttons about the sport... For me it is now mainly just hanging out with friends that as we get together very rarely since we gotten older and our lives have taken us in differnt directions... and of course the bragging rights from lighting one of them up... and telling bad stories of the "ole" days...LOL ... not to mention we are all very competitive by nature... so it is always a lively game when we are at the field.. and try to make it as fun for everyone around us... because when it comes to this game as so many others... I have found that the fun and enjoyment is contagious....

[Jeffy-CanCon]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread!

I'll echo what I have found best for me, to keep loving rec play over the years:

1) When you play with walk-ons, go lower-tech. Pump, or even stock-class
2) Play different fields, and different formats - try a big game, or a scenario
3) Find (or start) a group of experienced players to play with.

All these work well, especially together. My club has a core of a dozen or so guys who all play like that, and are still enjoying paintball (and still learning) 8-10 years on.

Every now and then, if you wonder if you are still learning, try another tourney. :)

[logamus]

every few months some of the guys i work with get a rec game going. i like to join up with them and play, it seems to remind me that the game is all about having fun. they dont get beaten down if they get shot off the break, they think having a "motorized hopper" is heaven sent, and at the end of the day we all get a bite to eat and a beer.

my point is, maybe you could look into gettting some folks from work to go out and have a day at the field. kinda like what mango did a month or so ago. its fun to do that because you are there with people you know, but its not a real ultra-competitive setting.

[Lohman446]

Aside from big events we seldom put together a tournament team that is the best we could. Local tournaments are a chance to go play, and the food and drinks afterwards are... well as much a part of the day as the tournament itself.

[Recon by Fire]

...recon we are going out on the 13th?...not this sunday but the next so you can shoot me a few more times...


I will put it on the calender :)

I think a Houston area e-list would great, we could schedule some mini-meets. Yahoo groups?

[GT]

Awsome, awsome thread,


I have begun to see that my paintball invovlement should span 10 maybe 15 years if I follow some of the advice in this thread.



I will put it on the calender :)

I think a Houston area e-list would great, we could schedule some mini-meets. Yahoo groups?


e-List is here:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139467
First play day is the 13th of June. I will send out our first email this saturday, not sure if its big enough for an e-group

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Awsome, awsome thread,


I have begun to see that my paintball invovlement should span 10 maybe 15 years if I follow some of the advice in this thread.



Or longer!

I know several guys with 20 or more years of paintball experience! Most played tourneys at one point or another, but they all still play rec. Damn good players, too.

[Z-man]

I hate jumping into these things late but I got a few things to say as well.

I have been playing since 1997. My style of play over that period was basically as follows:

First 3 years- Woodsball 1vs 1 to 6 vs 6.
Equipment- Original Spyder then a MiniMag.
Paint Usage- Minimal. At MOST a 1/2 case a day

Impressions- I remember liking woods ball but not liking only having a small group to play with. Playing with friends who brought friends sometimes ended up with some hot tempers flaring and ruining the game for us. After a few months of that I tried out a local field and was much more satisfied. More people, refs to take charge and keep people in line and a set boundary to play. Generally the caliber of people you meet at a field is higher than at a bandit ball field and I liked that. This is I am sure how many of us started and it was a great time to just be dazzled and enjoy each time you played.

Next 2 years- Transition period Woodsball ---> Speedball/recball
Equipment- Classic RT (added a Warp later)
Paint Usage- climbed steadily and soon broke 2 cases a day

Impressions- Like many of us, I did not like speedball at first. Typical reasons, Too fast, no place to move, all you do is get slapped down by the fast fingered elecros who were familiar with the field. It took me about a year or so to decide that Speedball was a fun thing and then another year to find my niche of where I liked to play. Perhaps I am an anomaly as I see many people jumping into the tourney lvl stuff in a matter of months, but I liked playing paintball exclusively when I got the urge. No hurry, no "same time next week", just, I'll play when I start twitching a bit, then I know it's time.

For better or worse I decided I liked shooting more than moving and even shooting for the sake of it. I think it comes down to watching action movies were the cool guys have the big gun and can mow down the helpless fool advancing on them (I keep waiting for that day...). So I started working on what I could do to get the BPS up and that is where the warped RT came in. On a side note, I should mention that my elimination count did not really go up as a result of the extra rounds... sigh.

Current 2 year so far- Speedball and Tournament play (6 months of that so far)
Equipment- Everyone knows that already as I post it every week :rolleyes:
Paint Usage- Sad (4+ cases without breaking a sweat)

[b]Impressions (to now)- Things did not really change much other than my paint usage increased steadily to about 4-5 cases a day. I think I have leveled off but if I heard some wise guy start belittling me I might have to add some more to the list.

I was offered a spot on a local team comprised of people I knew and respected. With 6 months of experience of the tournament world behind me I think I can say a little bit about it. First off it is a speedball players dream. It's fast, it makes you play better as an individual and as a team (duh). But with that said (and has been mentioned before) it's not for everyone. I think I might be part of that group. I enjoy the people I am playing with and whatever dishonesty occurs in tournaments (thus far) has not made me disheartened one bit.

What I find I don't like is the need to practice and come together regularly (i.e every week). It goes back to playing when I want and I tend to be happy playing a good full day of paintball every month or so at most. I want to plan it out and make it a get up at 6am and be done at 8pm day.

I don't know how unique our NorCal group is with regard to the rest of the US but I will say this. I find that I look forward to our NorCal AO Days more than any tourney I play hands down. The atmosphere is laid back, but we can play as hard as possible for a game or 2. And if I feel like taking it down a notch, I can. It's the freedom to play at anywhere within my level and not 110% all the time each game till its over. For me, I think I really like having the atmosphere and the knowledge that I am playing with a group of friends who won't throw down their markers and cuss me out and perhaps be foolish enough to take a swing at me. I am not there to worry about that, I am there to enjoy a day of paintball with my friends win or lose.

Perhaps this was more info than was needed to say what I said but, I like it so up it goes.

[punkncat]

I don't know how unique our NorCal group is with regard to the rest of the US but I will say this. I find that I look forward to our NorCal AO Days more than any tourney I play hands down. The atmosphere is laid back, but we can play as hard as possible for a game or 2. And if I feel like taking it down a notch, I can. It's the freedom to play at anywhere within my level and not 110% all the time each game till its over. For me, I think I really like having the atmosphere and the knowledge that I am playing with a group of friends who won't throw down their markers and cuss me out and perhaps be foolish enough to take a swing at me. I am not there to worry about that, I am there to enjoy a day of paintball with my friends win or lose.

Perhaps this was more info than was needed to say what I said but, I like it so up it goes.


That is exactly why I don't get into the tourney scene. One I can't afford it , nor am I willing to schedule for it.

The biggest thing is what you just touched on. So many tourney players take themselves and the game WAY too seriously. Working so hard to pursue this glory they have created for themselves over a game. Putting friendship and common courtesy to the wayside to win at any cost. I mean after all , its supposed to be for fun. Honestly,its not too many players that are recognized down the road even by paintball players. Much less the rest of the world.

I really see many professional sports this way.Not that I belittle pro players or tourney players for the work they put forth and the art in their game. Its quite amazing watching really good players getting a game on , pulling off superman dives into the 50 , etc. Pretty impressive stuff. Putting in all thie time and work to put window dressing on what in many sports we all played in a local sandlot as kids.