Whither WAS (Take II)

[SlartyBartFast]

I'll try this one more time.

If you don't care, you won't post. If you have no info you won't bother.

The only retarded people will be the ones that post without being able to provide info on new projects/claims, current activities.


What's up with AO's favorite whipping boy, Jim Drew?
Any crazy claims of late?
So I'm lazy. Can't be bothered going over to the WAS forums.

[Thermus]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

[tony3]

To pick fun at Jim Drew, all I know is my was board is awesome. The impulse equalizer is equally awesome.

[-=Squid=-]

Well, Squids take on the thread, version II.

This thread is rated R for retarded. :rolleyes:

[SlartyBartFast]

To pick fun at Jim Drew, all I know is my was board is awesome. The impulse equalizer is equally awesome.


Actually not really. Jim Drew supporters sure are touchy. :rolleyes:

But have to admit it's not nearly as entertaining now that Jim boycotts all forums except the WAS forums. :p

Intimidators last I heard no longer use WAS boards, other guns have been put out of production, so what current guns is WAS producing for now?

Anybody hear anymore about the WARP board WAS was testing? Seeing as he had produced a very professional looking board it would seem silly that after so much time and money the board has yet to be released.

[-=Squid=-]

Actually not really. Jim Drew supporters sure are touchy. :rolleyes:

But have to admit it's not nearly as entertaining now that Jim boycotts all forums except the WAS forums. :p

Intimidators last I heard no longer use WAS boards, other guns have been put out of production, so what current guns is WAS producing for now?

Anybody hear anymore about the WARP board WAS was testing? Seeing as he had produced a very professional looking board it would seem silly that after so much time and money the board has yet to be released.
You should have just asked the questions in the first place, rather than insulting WAS.

WAS produces all the same boards as before. These guns just arent using them stock. The timmy takes frenzy boards now, a bob long board, and obviously the AKA guns are discontinued.

He also makes impulse boards, a bit hard to find, and I believe the DM4 boards have been released.

He hasnt said anything about the warp board; I assume its not gonna happen. Hes got bigger things that can make more money right now.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Well, Squids take on the thread, version II.

This thread is rated R for retarded. :rolleyes:


Quoted for truth.

[SlartyBartFast]

Well, Squids take on the thread, version II.

This thread is rated R for retarded. :rolleyes:

Hey dink, thought you didn't care ... :rolleyes:

Try using more than one braincell in your posts. The results may be shocking.

Seems to me I hadn't seen you post in quite a while. Unsurprisingly, the question "Whatever happened to Squid?" NEVER crossed my mind.

Back under your rock you! :p

[-=Squid=-]

Hey dink, thought you didn't care ... :rolleyes:

Try using more than one braincell in your posts. The results may be shocking.

Seems to me I hadn't seen you post in quite a while. Unsurprisingly, the question "Whatever happened to Squid?" NEVER crossed my mind.

Back under your rock you! :pWhat are you talking about? You do realized I answered your questions right?

[SlartyBartFast]

What are you talking about? You do realized I answered your questions right?

Sent my reply before I read your other one. Oops. :cool:

Doesn't change my opinion about your re-emergence after deabsing the last thread I started. Thought I was fairly clear with my re-post question that I was interested in current projects/claims/activities.

I've only ever remembered pissing contests when you've been invovled in any thread I've paid attention to.

[-=Squid=-]

Sent my reply before I read your other one. Oops. :cool:

Doesn't change my opinion about your re-emergence after deabsing the last thread I started. Thought I was fairly clear with my re-post question that I was interested in current projects/claims/activities.

I've only ever remembered pissing contests when you've been invovled in any thread I've paid attention to.
Nah :p

Friends forever? :(

[Torbo]

frenzy>was

timmy>everything else.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

frenzy=sucks

dm4>all

[GT]

I guess what i find so funny is that WAS pissed AKA off so much they decidied to install pandora boards in the last dozen or so vikings and excals made....

[tony3]

Actually not really. Jim Drew supporters sure are touchy. :rolleyes:



That was quite stupid. If you flame or say anything negative about a product that someone like, I think they are going to give you a heated response, its just like mag owners on this forum. Or anyone else that has strong likes towards their gear.

[Steelrat]

WAS makes a decent product, but his ever-changing stories regarding the FSDO on vikings has made him look like an idiot. He had blamed it on oiling the noids, ram issues, and a variety of other things, but the fact is that once you slap in a pandora board in place of the WAS, the FSDO goes away. Jim just needs to admit his board has an issue.

BUT, I do recognize that the WAS board is what made the viking the gun it is today, and it still aint a bad board. I just cant deal with the deceptiveness of the designer.

[cledford]

WAS makes a decent product, but his ever-changing stories regarding the FSDO on vikings has made him look like an idiot. He had blamed it on oiling the noids, ram issues, and a variety of other things, but the fact is that once you slap in a pandora board in place of the WAS, the FSDO goes away. Jim just needs to admit his board has an issue.

BUT, I do recognize that the WAS board is what made the viking the gun it is today, and it still aint a bad board. I just cant deal with the deceptiveness of the designer.

The Truth!

Some of Jim's deceptions include:

Claimed to be the first person to bring the HES to paintball (one year AFTER the Emag),

said the stock classic Timmy board had massive shoot down (to drum up sales for Equalizer during launch) even though data showing the exact opposite had been posted almost 6 months before (during a reg test),

Has claimed impossible fire (with paint) rates for the Timmy but never posted videos,

Said that his turbo rev board used "advanced algorithms" and "AI" to time ball "slap" in a Revi (never mind the thing was made out of about $4 bucks worth of parts - what the hell is NASA wasting their cash on?),

Claimed the WAS board was able to shoot XXX BPS - then recently found a bug in the code that now fixed allows the Equalizer to 30% faster - then the impossible cycle rate claimed while the bug existed - which meant it was shooting 30% slower then what he stated he "timed" using an electronic timer,

Has publicly accused AKA for EVERY reason under the sun for being at fault for the Viking FSDO - even though the Vikings with Nelson boards don't have it, and neither do the ones with Pandora,

Claimed that in a community of about 4000 markers that 17 people had contacted HIM about AKA capacitor mods "frying" the Equalizer - even though not a SINGLE one of said owners EVER posted in the PBN AKA forum - which is the AO of the Viking/Excalibur world.
(Heck, not one of these "mystery owners even posted in his forum)

Deleted all public record of everything he ever said online.

The guy is a compete liar. AO has known about it for years - now the rest of the world is catching up.

I was one of the first Pandora board owners and had massive FSDO with my 03 Viking equipped with WAS. Even bumping the dwell from 10 to 12 MS did not make it go away completely, nor did completely disassembling/cleaning the ram & solenoid. Dropped the Pandora in and WALLA - even on 8MS of dwell FSDO magically gone!

-Calvin

[-=Squid=-]

I wont ever bash WAS, but I must say that steelrat is exactly right. I wont say that he didnt lie to the consumer, but he makes a good enough product that to be honest, I could care less. My viking doesnt have FSDO anyways :)

[1stdeadeye]

Jim is at it over on the PBReview threads.

Check this link! (http://www.pbreview.com/comments/?rev=104030&page=2) :rolleyes:

[Lohman446]

Yeh, umm.. the more i thought about this post, the more I realized i had no backign to my claims and did not have the technical or motivational expertise to even begin this discussion, so umm... heres my new post

[teufelhunden]

Hmm... well when someone makes a board, to be programmable with the trigger, and be able to have a debounce of 1... why do we not question their motives? Was the WAS board ever conceived as anything but a cheater board?

I need to admit to no having the technical ability to prove that it is a cheater board, nor do I know anyones intents, Im just curious as to why debounce 1 was left as an option on the WAS board

Well, how about considering that so many guns have the trigger, an LED, and a power button... kinda makes trigger programming necessary. Not everybody wants to bring a laptop to the field. Debounce one is for those guns that won't bounce no matter what you do. Why intentionally lengthen the trigger delay if it isn't going to bounce?

[Lohman446]

Just for the record, this is not a rhetorical question - honest question that I honestly don't know the answer to - not meant to be rude or demeaning in any way.

Have you ever held or seen a marker that could nto be made to bounce on debounce 1?

[-=Squid=-]

Just for the record, this is not a rhetorical question - honest question that I honestly don't know the answer to - not meant to be rude or demeaning in any way.

Have you ever held or seen a marker that could nto be made to bounce on debounce 1?
Yes... its all in the trigger adjustment.

[Lohman446]

Wow.. now that brought this line of questioning to a rather boring end.. darn

[gc82000]

OK I know that I have been in AO long enough to now but I still have no idea what FSDO stands for. :( Can someone please cure my ignorance

[Digits]

first shot drop off

WAS = cheater.. Plain and simple.. My brother had debounce cranked upto 50, and there was still microswitch bounce.. I don't know if he got rid of it.. But either way the bounce is unbelievable with WAS

[-=Squid=-]

first shot drop off

WAS = cheater.. Plain and simple.. My brother had debounce cranked upto 50, and there was still microswitch bounce.. I don't know if he got rid of it.. But either way the bounce is unbelievable with WAS
Mabe you brother needs to learn how to adjust his trigger.

[GT]

first shot drop off

WAS = cheater.. Plain and simple.. My brother had debounce cranked upto 50, and there was still microswitch bounce.. I don't know if he got rid of it.. But either way the bounce is unbelievable with WAS


Yea I am going to have to call BS on that one to. My old DD half milled only had to be around 3-5 to kill all of its bounce.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Bounce is all on trigger setup. I use a Tadao board on my matrix set at db 1 with no bounce but some people can't get rid of bounce at db 20. I guess the same goes for WAS. Cheater boards wouldn't have bounce, they'd have ramping. Bounce would just be from the trigger or a very low db setting.

[cledford]

You know, for a long time (until WAS) no one needed a "debounce" setting. Angels were fast as hell and didn't have one, same with timmies, Raceguns, Ols Shockers (well they weren't that fast but that was due to another problem) - heck NO electro guns had debounce. The manufacturer just hard set bounce at something that worked with all guns and no problem. You cannot convince me that adding debounce was for ANY OTHER REASON OTHER THAN TO PROMOTE CHEATING! There isn't that much of a gain to be had by being able to dial the debounce down right to the edge (the reasoning for debounce) - but there is certainly a reason to adjust it past the bounce point, that equals a quasi-legal full-auto/burst mode. Jim Drew has argued for the "debounce" setting for ever and alway stated that it was for removing bounce from markers (due to tolarances in switches) - but the truth is that a single, conservitive setting was all that was ever needed.

I was watching an Xball practice at Pev's weekend before last and a NUMBER of players were laughing and joking about bounce - and their guns were! At this point there is no difference between it and full-auto. Furthermore, where it really get abused is on the walk-on side - where it can do the most damage.

-Calvin

[teufelhunden]

Debounce adds time into the firing cycle. If you can turn it down without bounce, why not?

[SlartyBartFast]

Debounce adds time into the firing cycle. If you can turn it down without bounce, why not?

Debounce of electric switches should be accomplished by a hardwired capacitive circuit. There is no reason whatsoever to worry about 1/1000s trigger pulls with programmed debounce.

The ONLY reason to look that closely for 'trigger pulls' is because you want to cheat by detecting switch noise.

Love the hokum from Drew in PBReview. :rolleyes:

[cledford]

Debounce adds time into the firing cycle. If you can turn it down without bounce, why not?

Because the amount of time it adds is not that great and to promote the greater good (eliminating an easy cheat) is worth it being gone. Frankly, either allow full-auto and accept it, or dis-allow bounce. It seem stupid to me to ban one in favor of another - just to get around the insurance regulations.

If "debounce" (which should rightfully be called "bounce" since that is what the majority of users are trying to achieve) isn't so abused why is it that 99% of the threads about it aren't "I used (de)bounce to correct a bouncing problem with my marker" but instead are "I'm at debounce setting 1 and still can't get bounce - what am I doing wrong?"

I'm not looking down my nose at bouncing or full-auto guns, heck I've got a full auto board in both my Racegun and Viking, I'm just stating that we need to stop the charade and admit what the deal is - that there is an infinitely small number of users out there who have markers with hardware that require them to set the (de)bounce setting above what it would have been set at if the factory had to pick one and put it on everyone's guns - and on the other hand there are a LOT of people out there who are setting their guns up to bounce on purpose. If the adjustable debounce wasn't there then it would be an issue. If the rules say one shot per one pull (regardless of whether you're playing walk-on or tourney ball) those are the rules. Anything else is cheating - so I'm asking why deny it?

-Calvin

[Jack & Coke]

The Truth!

Some of Jim's deceptions include:

...said that his turbo rev board used "advanced algorithms" and "AI" to time ball "slap" in a Revi (never mind the thing was made out of about $4 bucks worth of parts - what the hell is NASA wasting their cash on?),

-Calvin

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54726&stc=1

[ilikePB]

A new company called Alien is using WAS boards in their guns.

www.alienpb.com

[thecavemankevin]

alien is not new, they have been around for several years now. They fugly thing has never really gotten off the ground. In fact, i don't know if any exist aside from the proto's pictured on their site.

Don't plan on anything ever happening with that gun or WAS in association with that gun

[the larch]

amen to cledford. Argue all you want, but it's just another form of the old S.P. turbo mode. Side stepping rules for unfair results. IMHO, anyone who would try to argue differently appears silly. :rolleyes:

[ilikePB]

alien is not new, they have been around for several years now. They fugly thing has never really gotten off the ground. In fact, i don't know if any exist aside from the proto's pictured on their site.

Don't plan on anything ever happening with that gun or WAS in association with that gun

Oh ok. I just hadn't heard of them till recently. They are coming out with another gun that looks like a smaller b2k, it sounds pretty nice and isn't uglier than all hell like their other one.

[WARPED1]

Here's some interesting stupidity: http://www.pbreview.com/comments/?rev=104030&page=2&n=1

[Jack & Coke]

The things this board brings to your Impulse over the stock one include the following:
- Adjustable debounce timer, so if you want to fool around with debounce firing you can feel free to do so.
- Has a better voltage regulation system than the Cricket board, this helps against FSDO.
- Eye modes, you can choose between a few, not too usefull but there nonetheless.
- Unlimited ROF cap, in case you're some superhuman that can shoot faster than 20-bps without cheating.
- The Equalizer also uses a similar eye system, a dual reflective type, pretty similar to other reflective eyes. The difference is you can adjust your eye sensitivity in order to zero in on the specific wavelength of paint that you are using. This is a nice feature to have if you're working with an invisible paint shell color, however if you're not, it makes no difference.

The problem is, the board costs $140 and this is all you get. Personally, I wouldn't pay that much money for it.

Equalizers are also cheater boards in that they tend to increase rates of fire during relatively high bursts, not exactly noticeable but it is there nonetheless. But you probably won't have problems with this sort of thing.


LOL!

That dude was funny!

Not to mention correct.

[WARPED1]

Did you see where Jim replied?
The review is from a fellow supermod over on shockerowners.com