Questions for those who were at TeX-Ball

[Havoc_online]

Last time the teams were random which made things fair so team "X" would'nt roll everyone else all day long.

Some people still thought making thier own teams would have been better.
My question is, after having gone through it, would you of rather had set teams, or random like it was?

Make your decision without considering prizes. Just for the fun of play.


err. misspelled in a hurry.

[Creative Mayhem]

What, no PIE??? ;)

I actually liked the way the teams were, you get to know other AOer's instead of the ones you usually talk/play with on a regular basis. That can be a bad thing as well though... ;)

I say keep it the way it was.

[Miscue]

I'd like to pick teams... but random was ok too.

So, when's TexBall 2?

[Chojin Man]

I liked the random, I would keep it that way

[Recon by Fire]

I wasn't able to make it there so I won't vote but I would say keep the random teams.

[Halliday]

I wasn't there either, but I think random teams is a great way to run a friendly tourney. It makes you a better player because you have to work with someone you just met. Also it does keep from one team sandbagging all the others.

[GoatBoy]

I thought the random selection worked out well, but I think I would have been just as comfortable with self-arranged teams.

I can see the usefulness of self-arranged teams though; all the A-Teamer's can put themselves on the same team(s), and the rest of us can occupy the other teams. Might not be a bad idea...

Drawback is... it might require much more organization up front, plus issues with no-shows and stuff.

[logamus]

random teams for sure.

/me sits patiently in the corner waiting for the next Texas AO day.

[evan123]

I must say i liked it random so you could meet your own teams that way. It did take awhile to get the teams together and start playing though, curtis is the man so i put that. I personally think it ran very smooth and hopefully looks foward to another in the fall

[vf-xx]

Random random.

It's especially good for those of us who have never played ANY tourney style games and therefore have no idea what you're doing.

"Do you know how to use that thing?"
"Yeah you point the open end at the other guy..."

[GT]

RANDOM!

yes havoc pwn's

[Cryer]

1) Havoc is indeed the Man.

2) Random teams are good... Good, clean fun with no pressure seems to be the hallmark of Texas AO days. Its just about the only time I can play with a bunch of people as good as, and better than me without having to worry about players hell-bent on winning (ie: open tournies). If we focus on prizes, it might detract from that laid-back attitude... As well, it introduces us to different people, strengthening the AO community.

[GoatBoy]

Just thought of this one...

Why not have both team types? The random teams will be made up of people who choose to be randomly placed on a team. They'll be selected right there at the event like last time, and team size will sort of auto-balance. People who just want to go out and meet some AO'ers and play some ball would probably opt for this. (I'd opt for this myself.)

The self-selected teams will have their rosters fixed and can't pull from the people who show up for random selection. I'm sure some people actually want this, and I think the people who would want this... belong together on the same team. So why not make everyone happy and let 'em do it.


And yes, I did vote for Havoc is the man.

[vf-xx]

Just thought of this one...

Why not have both team types? The random teams will be made up of people who choose to be randomly placed on a team. They'll be selected right there at the event like last time, and team size will sort of auto-balance. People who just want to go out and meet some AO'ers and play some ball would probably opt for this. (I'd opt for this myself.)

The self-selected teams will have their rosters fixed and can't pull from the people who show up for random selection. I'm sure some people actually want this, and I think the people who would want this... belong together on the same team. So why not make everyone happy and let 'em do it.


And yes, I did vote for Havoc is the man.

I'm not sure this would work with all forms of play.

With X-ball we needed teams of at least 10 players, as it is we had 4 teams of 12. Worked well, but if you did some preselcts things would get unbalanced.

[TeamNausea]

And it'd eliminate the point of the teams being random, no stacking, and meeting new people.

[GoatBoy]

vf-xx: yeah, it might depend on format. I think it's still doable though. If the next event were to be X-Ball again (hey, it worked, why rock the boat), I think it would be perfectly manageable. Play with the numbers a bit.


TeamNausea: If someone cares about team stacking, then they should go select their team. That's what this choice is about. All the people who are in win-win-win mode can clump together and make their own fate. The rest of us who just want to meet and greet and get some ball in, we just go for the random teams. And I think that completely random teams don't necessarily enable meeting new people. Either you want to meet new people or you don't; you can be randomly selected for a team and still spend all of your time away from your team hanging out with your buddies and not even really meet the rest of your "team".


But hey, if I'm the only one who thinks that separating the two types is a good idea, I'll just clamp it.

[Rather]

I didn't mind it. It was a great time. Prolly could have improved it by having diferent ahts to draw out of so we don't ahve another team sandbaggers (not that i minded being on their team ;) :D ) and things are a little fairer for everyone.

[wyn1370]

where's the option for curtis is a tool? :confused:
random was good, keep it that way
we're there for fun, not to win anything

[Albinonewt]

That's a tough call. On one hand random is best for keeping things fair and balanced, and not having any sandbagging teams. On the other hand, some people travel accross the country to see their buddies they don't normally see and it stinks to not be able to play with them.

But it seems everyone had fun on random teams, so i would keep it that way.

[James]

random even though i wasnt there that sounds more fun and after all thats what it is all about.

[GoatBoy]

People keep mentioning the term 'fair', but what does that mean in an event like this?

Set aside prizes, as Havoc stated in his post.

If people just come to simply play paintball, what would be the most 'unfair' thing to happen to them?

[Havoc_online]

I Think I'm getting the idea, thanks for the feedback. :)

[Recon by Fire]

What about running two divisions, one organized teams and the other random teams? Barring that, everybody on the field at once and everyman for himself!

[TeamNausea]

Yeah^^^ I like that where you can play in both. Organized and random. Not in the same tournament in 2 different ones.

[vf-xx]

People keep mentioning the term 'fair', but what does that mean in an event like this?

Set aside prizes, as Havoc stated in his post.

If people just come to simply play paintball, what would be the most 'unfair' thing to happen to them?

IMO: it's no fun if you're always loosing. I don't care about prizes, but I do enjoy winning even if only perodically.

[Albinonewt]

If people just come to simply play paintball, what would be the most 'unfair' thing to happen to them?

The point isn't winning as much as it is having fun. If you traveled halfway accross the country to play and just hooked up with some fokls you normally don't get to see, but somone else brought 9 friends that play all the time and really sandbag you it isn't fun. Losing isn't the problem, it's getting beat down so hard and so fast that you don't enjoy your trip.

[Creative Mayhem]

If you traveled halfway accross the country...

*AHEM* or another country* ;)

[Fuji]

I agree with mixed & random teams. But, how about if you bring a friend along, but they want to be on your team? I liked the random format, it allowed me to meet some way cool people. (Thanks, Curtis, Claire, Brian, Evan... oy yeah and Ed... again. ;) ) It would be cool to ahve a random team selection with the possibility of having your friend on the same team as you.

P.S. - sorry I haven't posted much lately, not that I posted much before.

P.P.S. - Brian, We need to work out the lengths of wires for that warp mod. email me or IM me your email address!

[Albinonewt]

*AHEM* or another country* ;)

I'm sorry, when did America-lite become a country. You're a province, if that. :)

[GoatBoy]

It really just sounds like everyone is concerned with:

1. Not getting to play with people you specifically wanted to play with.

and

2. Losing.

Both of these are solved by the same solution: allowing people to hand pick their own teams. Conversely, a completely random selection does not necessarily alleviate either of these two.

#1 I can totally understand, and that's a good reason for allowing people to pick teams.

#2... Losing is not necessarily 'unfair'. It's a result of competition. If you wanted it to be fair, you'd make sure all games and matches ended in draws and everybody got warm happy fuzzies at the end of the day. But on any given day, in competition, you're going to have losers, and you're going to have winners. Someone's going to win because they simply had an advantage. Whether it's team stacking by random, or team stacking by selection. Someone's going to win, and someone's going to lose.

Let's face it guys... Team 1 got stacked BY RANDOM SELECTION. And through all this, I have heard some joking and good humored ribbing about it, but I haven't really heard any complaints (or maybe I missed them?). Did any of you NOT enjoy playing against Team 1? I played against Team 1. I lost. I had a great time!


On the extreme, if you are so overly obsessed with winning (not pointing any fingers at anyone in this thread by the way), you shouldn't take your tournamentitis out on your randomly selected team, which might be comprised of newbies to AO and people who might not have wanted to play with you in the first place. You should take your tournamentitis out on your own hand-picked buddies. Afraid of losing? Pick your own team!

Everybody else? Random selection.

[Albinonewt]

There's a big difference between losing and being dominated every game by a group of folks that come to a semi-competitive event in order to dominate. Remember that in SC a factory team showed up just to crush all of us happy Ao'ers. Now, it didn't work, and they didn't crush us all, but there is that intent in some people out there. And the reason to go random is to avoid that kind of thing. I really don't mind getting beat, in fact I'm getting used to it. When I go play rec ball with my friends that don't like tournament play I have no problem losing every game in a day out in the woods, so long as my buddies are having fun. But, when there's a 40 man pickup game and my team is myself, my friends, and a bunch of rentals it's no fun playing 20 guys on a scenario team with communications equipment that are practicing beating up on rec players. There's a differnece between losing and getting taken advantage of. I would use picked teams in order to play with my friends and form the more perfect drinking team. Others might not. And while it's very possible nobody would form a team solely to dominate there is a risk.

Is the risk worth telling me I can't play with my friend who i see twice a year? Maybe. I am going to hang out with that person all weekend, and as an AO event I am techincally there to play with all of AO, not just one or two specific people.

There's pro's and cons. Personally, i think random is the way to go. It not only eliminates the possibility of a team rolling up and dominating everyone else that was prepared for a friendly day, it forces everyone to meet new people, cause some people are shy like me.

[GoatBoy]

There's a big difference between losing and being dominated every game by a group of folks that come to a semi-competitive event in order to dominate. Remember that in SC a factory team showed up just to crush all of us happy Ao'ers. Now, it didn't work, and they didn't crush us all, but there is that intent in some people out there. And the reason to go random is to avoid that kind of thing. I really don't mind getting beat, in fact I'm getting used to it. When I go play rec ball with my friends that don't like tournament play I have no problem losing every game in a day out in the woods, so long as my buddies are having fun. But, when there's a 40 man pickup game and my team is myself, my friends, and a bunch of rentals it's no fun playing 20 guys on a scenario team with communications equipment that are practicing beating up on rec players. There's a differnece between losing and getting taken advantage of. I would use picked teams in order to play with my friends and form the more perfect drinking team. Others might not. And while it's very possible nobody would form a team solely to dominate there is a risk.

Is the risk worth telling me I can't play with my friend who i see twice a year? Maybe. I am going to hang out with that person all weekend, and as an AO event I am techincally there to play with all of AO, not just one or two specific people.


Eh, I think you actually wound up supporting my arguments rather than contradicting them...


There's pro's and cons. Personally, i think random is the way to go. It not only eliminates the possibility of a team rolling up and dominating everyone else that was prepared for a friendly day, it forces everyone to meet new people, cause some people are shy like me.


If I were to tell you that being shy/reserved was "your own damn fault", and was neither the problem nor responsibility of the organizers or even the other AO'ers attending, how would you feel?