Only with a AGD Mag

[Beemer]

Any body with out a Mag want to put 3000psi to their gun and tell me what happens?

If it makes it thru the plastic line, break it down on what happens. Ha ha do it from another room and film it

[68_Classic]

i think someone already did that i will try to find the link for u and post it..... here is the site link z-man did it www.zakvetter.com

[OysterBoy]

No hes commenting on how the mag valve is able to handle such a PSI bruising, and on any other gun it would be destroyed..

[cockermongol]

big whoop

[hAppy]

the valve is under warranty up to 3k psi

if it were to explode and shatter, than go into all the people around the gun, than we would get to demand a new mag ;)

and that video was done behind my house :headbang:

[Beemer]

No hes commenting on how the mag valve is able to handle such a PSI bruising, and on any other gun it would be destroyed..

Exactly. What would really happen to all these other guns on HPA if they took 3000psi hit?
What about 4500psi

[ZapTheMad]

If you decide to hook any other gun up to ascuba, make sure I'm nowhere around :)

[Beemer]

You do it now with a 3000 or 4500 psi HPA tank

[teufelhunden]

Why does it matter... adjustables will only go barely above 1000 if at all..

Pointless.

[WARPED1]

i think someone already did that i will try to find the link for u and post it..... here is the site link z-man did it www.zakvetter.comThat was 2000PSI I think...............

[Beemer]

Why does it matter... adjustables will only go barely above 1000 if at all..

Pointless.


THINK............Not if there is a failure.

[Chronobreak]

yeah he said just over 2k so like 2200 ,2100 out of the scuba..did anyone else hear something leaking?

[hAppy]

2400, air was leaking from something

[Rumble]

it was leaking from the velosity adjuster i would assume, because thats where if it vents if there is too much pressure, as to not shoot the ball incredibly hot

[hAppy]

it was leaking from the velosity adjuster i would assume, because thats where if it vents if there is too much pressure, as to not shoot the ball incredibly hot
i think you re right, the reasoning makes sense, mags do that

[RRfireblade]

Ummm,

he was technically running it into a HP reg,what do you think is at the end of your HPA tank? ;)

[GT]

Ummm,

he was technically running it into a HP reg,what do you think is at the end of your HPA tank? ;)


I was waiting for someone to say that

[Digits]

THINK............Not if there is a failure.


lol I don't know about you, but i've never heard of a tank failing and letting 3000 psi into a gun, and i'm sure the tanks are made to not do this

[slade]

lol I don't know about you, but i've never heard of a tank failing and letting 3000 psi into a gun, and i'm sure the tanks are made to not do this
that COULDNT happen... unless someone installed the wrong burst disc

[GT]

that COULDNT happen... unless someone installed the wrong burst disc


What tank uses a down stream burst disk?

[slade]

What tank uses a down stream burst disk?
aparently pmi tanks... my tank has two burst discs, one that says 3k and another 1800. im asuming that that is refering to psi, and one is for the tank, to make sure it isnt overfilled, and another is for the output of the reg, so it will burst if the reg breaks.

[spacedtedybear]

he was technically running it into a HP reg,what do you think is at the end of your HPA tank?
:confused: There was no HP reg. The air went from the scuba straight into the gun.

[68_Classic]

If you decide to hook any other gun up to ascuba, make sure I'm nowhere around :)


lol same here

[RRfireblade]

:confused: There was no HP reg. The air went from the scuba straight into the gun.


The R/T Valve is 'primarily' an HP reg piggy backed to a dump chamber.

[Beemer]

aparently pmi tanks... my tank has two burst discs, one that says 3k and another 1800. im asuming that that is refering to psi, and one is for the tank, to make sure it isnt overfilled, and another is for the output of the reg, so it will burst if the reg breaks.

What model reg do you have exactly. Can you post a pick. If its down stream???, then your gun could still take a 1799psi hit.[only with a MAG] so far

Bassically if the output setting on the reg fails everything down stream will take a pressure hit of what ever pressure is in the tank at time of failure.

Well tank life span is 3 to 5 yrs[rehydro]. Whats the deal on the regs we use. [any help]

[Beemer]

Come on, nobody out there can show me another gun that meets this.

6.5.2 All paintball markers intended to be used with refillable
cylinders shall be able to withstand input pressure of three
thousand pounds per square inch 207 bar (3000 psi) without
catastrophic failure. Leaking in a manner which would not
cause injury to the operator shall not constitute failure.

You dont think your gun could handle a 3000psi hit? What does this tell us?

[Mango]

What does this tell us?


Absolutley nothing. http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/metallicblue.gif http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/metallicblue.gif

[Beemer]

I wouldve expected a more intelligent post from you.

Put 3000psi to that cute little alias of yours and tell me what happens

[Mango]

I wouldve expected a more intelligent post from you.

Put 3000psi to that cute little alias of yours and tell me what happens

Oh your opinion means so much to me. No really it does.

Pretend for a moment I put 3000psi into it, want to know what would happen? Bad things thats what. Why? Because it is not designed for that. That is why there is a regulator on it. Oh and guess what is on the back of the mag...a regulator. I hate to burst your bubble there Beemy.

Another thing:
Are you implying that, by using an item beyond its operational limits, that it is somehow bad or inferior? You might be on to something there sport, if I rev the engine in my car beyond the rev limiter and my engine blows up, well gee, I'm taking it back because it SUCKS.

[Beemer]

Oh your opinion means so much to me. No really it does.

Pretend for a moment I put 3000psi into it, want to know what would happen? Bad things thats what. Why? Because it is not designed for that. That is why there is a regulator on it. Oh and guess what is on the back of the mag...a regulator. I hate to burst your bubble there Beemy.

Another thing:
Are you implying that, by using an item beyond its operational limits, that it is somehow bad or inferior? You might be on to something there sport, if I rev the engine in my car beyond the rev limiter and my engine blows up, well gee, I'm taking it back because it SUCKS.



Thats the whole point Mr sarcastic. Its supposed to be Designed according to industry standards to take a hit that big, so why isnt it?

Oh ya thats right standards and safety dont mean anything, nobody cares

[Trick]

Well, you see, most human beings are not stupid enough to hook up a damn scuba straight into the timmy without a regulator in there somewhere.

If you are that stupid, if something bad happens to you, you deserve it.

So you just keep telling the world that your mag is safer... and the world will not care.

[lamby]

what is the point of this thread? most if not all other guns have dual regulators. the tank being the first regulator and the markers primary regulator. If either get fails, there will be venting (that is what the small hole does in regulators) there is NO WAY a failed reg will dump the full 3000 psi into the gun. Even if it does, the second reg should then go into an over pressure protective state. I use a CP reg on my cocker and I am pretty sure the exhaust pressure is 500psi. This is nowhere near the 3000psi you are demanding.

I think this thread is a bit useless

[Beemer]

Thats my question, why would there be a standard like that?

[Lohman446]

The point of this thread is why does this industry go to the effort, time and expense of making safety rules and than not bother to follow them. Remember the 13BPS cap??

Why do we change rules in NPPL and PSP whenever someone wants around them - force feed loaders for isntance.

If we have these rules for the industry, then have them, otherwise get rid of the things and quit wasting time and effort on them - dont have them and ignore them

[RRfireblade]

The point of this thread is why does this industry go to the effort, time and expense of making safety rules and than not bother to follow them.

A) No,the point of the thread was to brag about Mags,I have no problem w/ that. ;)

And

2) Who says they aren't being followed? I see no evidence that 3K will cause "catastrophic failure" in any of the guns we're talking about here.

Fed into the stock reg on a Timmy.....no "catastrophic failure" some leaking and the potential for functional damage, sure but catastrophic....no.

Fed into the stock reg on a Cocker....no "catastrophic failure", some leaking and failure to fire.

Fed into the stock reg on a Impulse or Shocker...no "catastrophic failure,in fact it's the same reg that comes on thier MafFlo tank so actually with the correct spring/piston it will function normally.

Fed into a blowback....no "catastrophic failure", some leaking and failure to fire.

So on and so on pretty much.

I don't see what the big deal is, do you think that the marker body is going to explode into a thousand shards of metal and wreak havock on every living thing in its path? Sorry but not likely. :rolleyes:

[slade]

I don't see what the big deal is, do you think that the marker body is going to explode into a thousand shards of metal and wreak havock on every living thing in its path? Sorry but not likely. :rolleyes:
well, if it was made by brass eagle...

[RRfireblade]

well, if it was made by brass eagle...


Dang, I was hoping no one would bring them up. :ninja:

[gc82000]

well, if it was made by brass eagle...

And I can see the mushroom cloud forming now. :nono:
At this point I would just like to say burn baby burn. :mad:

[Beemer]

RR reread my posts and note the key words SAFETY and STANDARDS.

Now hit those babies with 4500psi and where we at.

I didnt make that up. Thats right off the ASTM standard sheet.

Any other gun valve out there stamped, rated to 3000psi [really I dont know]

I also dont know what all the fail safes are on all the tank regs. Some do some dont or WHAT. Help me out. what if does fail.

Oh wait lets unscrew our tanks under pressure with a valve thats screwed into the tank.
Wait this is really Rocket Science. Give the boys at NASA a 4500 set up with screw in tanks plastic lines and swivel fittings and bla bla, then come back a week later when they are done laughing.

This is the PaintBall Department we are sorry to inform you your Mother,Wife,Son are dead because of our stupidity.

Mango hit that baby with 3000

[PzYcO]

Thats why Impulse's have those little brass "burst disk" things... yeaaaaaah.... i know what im talking about....... :rolleyes:

[Thordic]

I would bet most guns would take 3000 psi without structural damage.

Damage to orings, some internals maybe, dead solenoids obviously.

But I doubt anything would blow up.

This is assuming you didn't try to operate the gun at 3000psi, at which point you'd prolly shoot a bolt down the barrel. It also assumes you realize you are putting 3000psi into the gun and fix the problem ASAP.

Small-diameter round passageways are very strong. Look at macroline. Its plastic and can hold upwards of 1,000 PSI before it bursts, with what, a 1/16th wall?

Your gun is made out of a fairly strong aluminum, with 1/8 - 1/4 walls. Some of the more milled guns get down a little thinner, prolly.

I'd be more worried about fittings going, 3000 psi may be enough to convince threads to let go.

But worrying about the aluminum walls rupturing, I just really doubt that would happen.

[RRfireblade]

RR reread my posts and note the key words SAFETY and STANDARDS.



I have and I stand behind my post. "Catastrophic failure" and simply damaged are to different isssues.

Will the average paintball gun fracture and cause serious injury to a user 3K is fed into it. I still say no way.As for the plastic pump guns, they are designed for 12G Co2 at 1.8K max and my guess is they will do fine there as well.

I also don't know how you switched gears from the 2200psi in the Zman vid to 4500psi across the board.Even you state that the Mag valve is rated for 3K so you've now lost your own arguement right there.

As I also have stated, what do you think is inside the Reg on a 4.5K HPA Tank? It aint Kryptonite I assure you. :) It's the same parts used inside most on gun regs....or worse.What you should really be arguing is the quality and saftey of the HPA Regs you are so concerned about failing.That is primarily where the real danger is anyway.I'm quite confident in the overall strength of the average aluminum gun body.

[Beemer]

Let me rephrase.

If the tank reg fails at full pressure[3000 or 4500 psi] what happens? I never said the gun would blow up. Maybe a flying part or 2.

Can you say its impossible for a reg to fail? If it does, is it impossible for the full pressure to get down line? Whats the fail safe?


"I also don't know how you switched gears from the 2200psi in the Zman vid to 4500psi across the board.Even you state that the Mag valve is rated for 3K so you've now lost your own arguement right there."

Sorry I missed that. I jumped from 3000 to 4500 psi after you said this.

"2) Who says they aren't being followed? I see no evidence that 3K will cause "catastrophic failure" in any of the guns we're talking about here."

"Even you state that the Mag valve is rated for 3K so you've now lost your own arguement right there."

Have I? Is there anybody else stating their valve is rated at 3000 and stamping it or even testing it at 3000 or 4500. No the mag aint rated at 4500 but at least I know its tested and rated for 3000.

"What you should really be arguing is the quality and saftey of the HPA Regs you are so concerned about failing.That is primarily where the real danger is anyway.

I agree. I started on the wrong end.


Heres the point. 2 loved ones are gone due to one reason or other from air cyclinders we use in Paintball. The first place the CPSC is looking is ASTM standards. The question is where will we be when the lawyers of 2 families and the CPSC are done looking at how we use air systems and what the fail safes are. The investigation by the CPSC is still ongoing


Peace out
Beemer

I.A.D.S.P.B.P

[RRfireblade]

Hwy Beener,

Let me just say this, I do agree with your feelings in saftey and standards as they should apply. Please don't confuse my comments with that.I also don't argue with most of your concerns with enacting and enforcing those concerns.

My real only point is in regards the original question of this thread, "What would happen if full tank pressure dumps into a marker?", is this......

In the vast majority of the cases IMO, it will only result in pressure induced leaks and the potential damage to the functional parts of a marker. I personally do not believe that it will cause 'catastrophic' failure,meaning partial or complete failure of the structural parts of a marker thereby causing severe injury to the user.Blow off a line? Sure. Blow up a soleniod? Sure. Have the body and/or frame of the marker fracture and break potentially throwing shrapnel and severe injury causing debris at the user? I honestly don't believe so.I honestly believe your far more likely to have an occurance like that from the tank Reg itself just after a fill and seperate from the marker.

Jay.

[rabidchihauhau]

let's go back for a second and make sure we're defining terms correctly: 'catastrophic failure' means that everything from the tank reg on down the line FAILS.

Pretend you're having a bad day: pretend that you're past the point of abort in your flight plan, your main oxygen storage tank just blew up because someone didn't wire its circulating fan correctly, the explosion took out your secondary tank AND all of your power systems are operated off of fuel cells that utilize the oxygen from the tanks to make electricity....

the backups for the backups failed and we almost lost three men in space.

my point is - it IS rocket science. just as we borrow from other industries to make our high tech gear, we should also be borrowing their QA/QC and failure engineering disciplines.

Nothing out there, with the possible exception of the mag and a couple of other things, has components that are expected to hold pressure that have been tested to the proper degree. Perhaps they'll work just fine because the mfg got it right - but I want to see a 'UL' style seal of approval on ANYTHING that's going to be a pressure vessel...

[minimag03]

Good luck to anyone who tries this.

minimag03

[ghideon]

I think there is a point to be made here.

Why haven't we found out what happens to markers if the full tank pressure is dumped into the valve (aside from 'Mags)?

[tony3]

Thats why Impulse's have those little brass "burst disk" things... yeaaaaaah.... i know what im talking about....... :rolleyes:


LOL, atleast you admitted you don't know what you are talking about, which is true you don't ;) Those little things are burst disk to save the solenoid if the pressure in the gun goes over 220 psi

[mobius]

Nothing out there, with the possible exception of the mag and a couple of other things, has components that are expected to hold pressure that have been tested to the proper degree. Perhaps they'll work just fine because the mfg got it right - but I want to see a 'UL' style seal of approval on ANYTHING that's going to be a pressure vessel...

So are you saying that just because a gun (or it's valve) isn't stamped with a certification that it'll handle 3000psi, that the manufacturer has ignored ASTM standards and built a gun that won't handle said rating?

I find it hard to beleive that any manufacturer wouldn't design it's guns to meet industry standard safety guidlines.

[Lohman446]

So are you saying that just because a gun (or it's valve) isn't stamped with a certification that it'll handle 3000psi, that the manufacturer has ignored ASTM standards and built a gun that won't handle said rating?

I find it hard to beleive that any manufacturer wouldn't design it's guns to meet industry standard safety guidlines.

I think you would have a hard time finding many top-line guns taht meet all the standards, but noone will post them for us. TK maybe?

[Beemer]

I find it hard to beleive that any manufacturer wouldn't design it's guns to meet industry standard safety guidlines.

Well its a fact.

Get on the phone and call some of these mfgs and ask them about the ASTM standards.

Ask them if they test their guns and if they meet ALL ASTM standards.

Come back here and tell me what they said.

I.A.D.S.P.B.P
Beemer