More LP mythbusting(thank god)

[WARPED1]

Hope you know your math!
http://www.thingpaintball.ca/moreLP.shtml

[GT]

Hope you know your math!
http://www.thingpaintball.ca/moreLP.shtml


one quick comment, will read when i get back to the house.

I have noticed that, even on the kingman boards, lp is being denounced. One thing I am still seeing is that higher flow=more effiency. Now that may be true on lower pressure, i.e cars, I dont think its the case in paintball. We run such high pressures that I dont think there is really any difference when comparing flow X-Y, other than a decrease in effiency, in reality changing volume X-Y.


dunno just my thought.

[RRfireblade]

Well, I'm not going to read all that. :)

I'll just say this in regards to LP.

LP is not "hype", some of the claims attributed to LP may be hype but there are definately differences in running a marker or any pnuematic device at either higher or lower operating pressures, some of those differences will be positive and some will be negetive.

All other things being equal and as it applies to paintball,it will typically be benificial to operate at the lowest pressure that gives the most efficency.A great deviation from that in either direction will normally be detrimental to max overall performance.

IMO, lower pressures create less internal friction,less overall wear on parts(o-rings etc),and is generally easier on the internals of the Marker.It often allows the use of smaller/lighter springs,smaller/lighter soleniods and typically either smaller/lighter batteries or longer battery life.Added to any gains in effeciency, the ability to shoot to a lower pressure state of the air source and you have still another benefit.

So......

Just my opinions, I'm sure others will vary. ;)

Jay.

[elpimpo]

why do they have to mix letters in with math

[spacedtedybear]

First let’s consider a little vague math here. Let’s say that to get a paintball up to velocity (v) you have to hit it with a certain amount of air (which we’ll call V) at a certain pressure (P). So it can be said that velocity is proportional to volume times pressure (v ~ VP). But it doesn’t stop there, the velocity is also dependent on the flow of the air as it passes through the gun (F). So now we have v ~ FVP. To balance the equation and make it equal we will introduce a “gun constant.” This constant will contain the resultants of all other factors which affect velocity (friction, paint to barrel match, etc) which we will take as constant from shot to shot. So now we have a nice little equation v = kFVP.

Later on the last equation was expressed as a=kVPF'. But we don't need to know that. You just need to know a little bit of algebra and chemistry. This eqauation can also be expressed as a/V=kPF'. Now acceleration, F', and k are constants, so what you are left here is P=1/V which is nothing but Boyle's law. In fact in the end, he's pretty much came up with P=F/A ( pressure= force/area)

In an alegebriac equation such as this, you know that the variables are either going to be directly proportional or inversly proportional to one another. in this case pressure is inversly proportional to the volume. When you introduce a constant, the solution will always be the same.

[xXHavokXx]

I buy into the LP hype, why? 'trixxies.

[kopfjaeger]

Vikings?

[spyder_technician]

In regards to such markers as Spyders, the lower operating pressure of the marker will be easier on paint. In those markers they can run off of both extremes of pressures. Some run at pressures of 250 psi while others run at upwards of 800 psi. It is important to remember that if the marker is being cycled at 800 psi, there is no difference of pressure on the paint. In that situation, the paint is being hit with 800 psi. In mags or cockers, the pressure is being regulated for the sake of the marker. They simply can't be cycled at 800 psi or they will face serious damage or just simply refuse to work. They, in a way, provide themselves with their own brand of protection.

[WARPED1]

why do they have to mix letters in with math
Must be that 20th century math..............

[elpimpo]

damn 20th century

[Automaget]

how do they get so smart i wish i could do that but thats way over my head! :confused: but im sure hes right so yahoo

[FallNAngel]

It is important to remember that if the marker is being cycled at 800 psi, there is no difference of pressure on the paint. In that situation, the paint is being hit with 800 psi.

Actually the ball will only see around 50-125psi ... like any other marker on the market.

[Miscue]

Joke's on you! All paintball markers are low pressure behind the ball. :p

[spyder_technician]

I think it would see a little more than that. I just think it gets a shorter burst of a higher pressure. Sorta the difference between kickin a field goal and throwing a pass. They both might go the same distance, but I'd like to see you drop kick a paintball!

[Enemy]

im with miscue and the website on this one the only difference between high pressure and low pressures in reality is the ability to shot way deeper into the tank!!! my mag would get 1700 shots off of an 88/4500 psi fill if i started seeing drop off at around 250 psi as opposed to 850.. other than that ease of operation and youve pretty got the argument killed.

[GT]

In regards to such markers as Spyders, the lower operating pressure of the marker will be easier on paint. In those markers they can run off of both extremes of pressures. Some run at pressures of 250 psi while others run at upwards of 800 psi. It is important to remember that if the marker is being cycled at 800 psi, there is no difference of pressure on the paint. In that situation, the paint is being hit with 800 psi. In mags or cockers, the pressure is being regulated for the sake of the marker. They simply can't be cycled at 800 psi or they will face serious damage or just simply refuse to work. They, in a way, provide themselves with their own brand of protection.


wow there is so much wrong with that paragraph :rofl:

[spyder_technician]

Ok, so maybe my analysis was a little off... wouldn't surprise me. But, are you going to say that there is no validity to my statement that it would have an effect on the paint? Are you saying that if you took two Spyder markers, one operating at a low pressure and another unregulated, and shot an extremely brittle paint, that the LP marker's shot would not have a completely different outcome. I thnk it would. So far its an opinion. If I'm wrong, I want to know it. Someone prove to me that I am or am not, please.

[Lurker27]

LP allows you to shoot deeper into the tank. That's it.

...UNless we're talking about cocking rpessures which should be separate, since only *certain* companies don't include LPRs with their electros.

[Butterfingers]

Hope you know your math!
http://www.thingpaintball.ca/moreLP.shtml

Ok in theory but he completely neglects design aspects that slow the delivery of air to the ball.

ie. the tapered PT tip on Level 7 mags allows the release of higher pressures slowly to mimic the inital accelleration effects of a much lower pressure marker.

[GT]

Ok, so maybe my analysis was a little off... wouldn't surprise me. But, are you going to say that there is no validity to my statement that it would have an effect on the paint? Are you saying that if you took two Spyder markers, one operating at a low pressure and another unregulated, and shot an extremely brittle paint, that the LP marker's shot would not have a completely different outcome. I thnk it would. So far its an opinion. If I'm wrong, I want to know it. Someone prove to me that I am or am not, please.

same pressure is invovled no matter what gun, to get the ball up to 300 fps. why would one gun take more presure and one less to propel the same ball?

I think the difference you maybe seeing is the pressure used while cycling the marker. also remember that comparing a spyder w/ reg and one w/o is like comparing apples to oranges. In all honesty I think you are looking at fundemental design differences and not pressures.

[punkncat]

LP markers tend to be a bit quieter.
LP markers give better performance on CO2 , particularly in cold weather.Liquid CO2 cannot exist below a certain pressure.
LP markers "go deeper into the tank" , but this may be offset by less shots due to volume of air used.

[thingpaintball]

So, this is where all the hits are comming from. Yes it's my article (and my webpage). Please keep in mind it's over simplified to prove a point.

Another article that just went up: http://www.thingpaintball.ca/LowPressureRevisited.shtml has some better math then the first.

[FSU_Paintball]

Some people are so quick to bust on something that their markers don't do.

Others are equally quick to herald and embellish on qualities that their markers do have.


Low pressure operation is beneficial for sure, and when properly set up, is superior to HP operation in nearly every way. It can be easier on your gun's working parts, can make the gun more "smooth" when it fires, you can shoot lower through a tank. However, it certainly doesn't do everything that some people say it does. LP does not necessarily equal efficiency, for instance.

What I'm trying to say is that I think some people might need to realize... LP isn't a bad thing. It's a very good thing. But it's not a magical thing like some people would have you believe, either. But bashing LP and thinking of it as a fad or something that doesn't do jack for you isn't right, either.

[GT]

[QUOTE=FSU_Paintball] is superior to HP operation in nearly every way. [QUOTE]

I disagree completely. read some of tom's post regurading future guns and there use of pressure. I think you will find that HP is the wave of the future, problem is the industry has brain washed everyone into thinking that LP operation is where its at.


I'm sorry but you guys are going to have to prove to me that Lp is better than hp. comparing 2 different guns is the completly wrong way to compare the two.

[Butterfingers]

Agreed. Nearly every pnumatic and hydraulic industry besides paintball has made switch to HP based on the ability to pack a more dense energy souce into a smaller package this allows for smaller parts and since energy is so dense faster action and greater capacity.

If HP were so damaging on parts why are automags and tippmanns the most maintainence free guns on the market. While the most popular low pressure guns require special lube just to prevent them from leaking. It has much more to do with the design of the gun rather than the operationg pressure used.

Smoothness is firing is related to bolt speed and reciprocating mass another aspect of gun design that can be varied regardless of operating pressure.

The only thing that LP provides that is advantageous is being able to shoot deeper into your tank.