Warp or Q-loader

[creative1]

Im looking to ether get a warp feed or a Q-loader and im looking for some impute. :rolleyes: like:

:D * witch one is faster
:D * witch one is more reliable
:D & witch one will balance out my gun more since it is really back heavy (ule custom W/68ci tank


Any impute would be apreciated. :cheers:

[WickeDKlowN]

Not too sure on speed or reliability, but I'd think the Q would balence it out more if it's back heavy since it goes on the front, whereas the warp goes more towards the mid/back.

Just my $.02

[Empyreal Rogue]

Q-Loader is faster. The Warp can only feed as fast as the hopper feeds.
Q-Loader is more reliable. The spring can last well beyond a million rounds. Plus the constant pressure always keeps a ball in the breach.
Q-Loader will balance your marker out more. Your mounting spots for the Warp are limited, but the Q-Loader can be mounted anywhere you want it to be mounted.

If you have any specific questions feel free to IM me at any time.

[edweird]

balance ... woopdie do.

if you look down a bit you will see a thread complaining about "How Much drops unbalance your gun" Anyhow IMHO if you look at the pics you will see that they dont change the balance point that damn much.

I plan on using both... on diffrent gun set ups tho.

for tourney type ball I run the warp cause well ... hundred round pods arnt gonna cut it for me.

on this scenario gun im working on I will use the Qloader since volume of fire wont really matter all that much and im less likley to chuck the valuable pods to the ground.

[PsychoBaller]

As I've said before.... The only thing keeping me from buying a Q-Loader Kit is the Price, and the low-round holding capability per tube - 100rds.

Its lighter, faster and more reliable than the Warp will probably ever be.... but I will continue to use my Warp anyways.

-baller

[vonort]

Psychoballer have you seen the new pricing? $130 for the "pro" set now. Comes with 5 loaders. Thinking of getting one for my Hurricaine. Just need to figure out how to attach it without messing her up. :dance:

[Chronobreak]

i stil dont see a amrket for q-loaders other then rec and scenario if your in tourneys ide say warp just for the amt of paint it can hold and reasons emntioned above

[GoatBoy]

balance ... woopdie do.

if you look down a bit you will see a thread complaining about "How Much drops unbalance your gun" Anyhow IMHO if you look at the pics you will see that they dont change the balance point that damn much.

I plan on using both... on diffrent gun set ups tho.

for tourney type ball I run the warp cause well ... hundred round pods arnt gonna cut it for me.

on this scenario gun im working on I will use the Qloader since volume of fire wont really matter all that much and im less likley to chuck the valuable pods to the ground.


You know, the funny thing is, I was thinking about this the other day... Rykker was talking about some sort of long range recon or whatever patrol. He was talking about needing to lay fire and then bug out, in which case, the q-loader might not be such a good choice. I can imagine having to drop a pod somewhere off in the woods and probably never seeing it again... not necessarily by foul play, but you know how things can get lost in the woods.

As far as balance... eh, having a q on the front of the gun might balance it against the tank on the back, but it still makes it front heavy, and not so good for quick maneuvering and working bunkers.

wantamag: OK, so you don't see a market for the q-loader, aside from those pesky rec and scenario players. Gotcha. Good point. AIC should just curl up and die, right? I mean, there's just no market!





Some people are bought and paid for...

[Chronobreak]

scenarios and rec players make up msot the paintball market i guess my words just came out kinda wrong.....anyways w/e one u pick good luck and hope u like it and its mostly preferance but i still see the low ball count as a negative as well as not many palces to set it up on the gun...not that the warp is any better about that :cheers:

[Empyreal Rogue]

... as well as not many palces to set it up on the gun...not that the warp is any better about that :cheers:

Well jesus man, what do you want out of the Q-Loader? You can mount it along the tank, from the foregrip, off the feed neck, from the barrel. And from those different locations you can mount it in different directions different ways. How many places can you mount a Halo B? Oh right, one friggin' spot; and same with the Warp.

[GoatBoy]

Well jesus man, what do you want out of the Q-Loader? You can mount it along the tank, from the foregrip, off the feed neck, from the barrel. And from those different locations you can mount it in different directions different ways. How many places can you mount a Halo B? Oh right, one friggin' spot; and same with the Warp.


Well, there aren't actually a lot of comfortable options with the q-loader's current mounting socket. You can put it all over the place, but most of them just don't work out very well. I mean, there's nothing preventing a user from mounting a warp all over the place in nonsensical positions as well... Until the AIC releases the new mounting socket (they're now half a month behind schedule), I can't hand the q-loader the win on this point...

[afultz075]

I'd get the warp if you shoot a good deal of paint and can deal with the whole gun being balanced towards one side. I'd get a Q if you don't shoot a ton of paint and need a more balanced setup.

[1ofkind]

Speed- There both about the same speed, not sure if both are force feed, but the warp is.

Reliable : The warp is like a old car engine to me always works, I would say its more reliable.


Finally about balance, the Q loader will probably hack the job, the warp will defiantly throw your gun a little off balance, but I'm sure your a manly man and could put up with it!

Heres my half a cent,

Only problem I see with the q loader is, its very awkward and not very pretty, looks like a mission to mars to reload, and finally at 15 bucks a pod its just not worth it.
When I used a warp I loved it, your profile melt, it was just very difficult to play the side it hangs on. You also have to mod your revy so it will fit into it right, nothing difficult if you have the proper tools(drill or blow tourch). :cheers:

[MMM]

I'm going for both. My warpfeed is great, I love it and I can no longer function when going back to a traditional set up. The only thing I don't like about it is that it's a bit heavy (I'm a little woman) and there are now 3 on/off switches and 4 batteries for my set up. I'm a back player though so I kind of need the volume that the warp can put out. I like the q-loader idea enough that I'm going to get one for back up and days when I just down't want to deal with the weight of the warp.

[Jaremy Rykker]

You know, the funny thing is, I was thinking about this the other day... Rykker was talking about some sort of long range recon or whatever patrol. He was talking about needing to lay fire and then bug out, in which case, the q-loader might not be such a good choice. I can imagine having to drop a pod somewhere off in the woods and probably never seeing it again... not necessarily by foul play, but you know how things can get lost in the woods.

As far as balance... eh, having a q on the front of the gun might balance it against the tank on the back, but it still makes it front heavy, and not so good for quick maneuvering and working bunkers.

wantamag: OK, so you don't see a market for the q-loader, aside from those pesky rec and scenario players. Gotcha. Good point. AIC should just curl up and die, right? I mean, there's just no market!

Some people are bought and paid for...

I tried a Q-Loader (held a marker at a field), and the balance on it was pretty sweet, especially if you have a heavier rear tank. He had a PE 68/45, and it felt real nicely balanced. I'm guessing though that it might have been a bit front heavy if you were to use a 45/45, and I hate front heavy markers. I'd sooner tie bricks onto my tank than have a front heavy gun because it just kills your shooting, where as I can jam the heavier back weight into my shoulder.

On the other hand, for those of you using a Q-Loader in the woods. Never, I repeat, Never drop the pods on the ground. You are just asking to move and lose them. I wear a small backpack low on my back, but tight, where I keep my spare gear (tanks, a small metal case that I use to store 500 rounds, a bit of food, a spare lense, some spare contacts, and anything else I feel that I might need for the day). I'd throw them in that, as it being on my lower back, I can access it quickly and add and remove stuff.

And it was LRRP. We took a note from OldSoldier and now provide recon and intel at Big Games.

[1ofkind]

I use a 88 ci tank! Beat that! :D :cheers:

[PsychoBaller]

Psychoballer have you seen the new pricing? $130 for the "pro" set now. Comes with 5 loaders. Thinking of getting one for my Hurricaine. Just need to figure out how to attach it without messing her up. :dance:

I was not aware o that... but still... 100rds on a gun that can shoot anything from 15bps + is kinda stupid...

Unless u play front, and dont use any paint ever... heh..

[Magglerock]

i stil dont see a amrket for q-loaders other then rec and scenario if your in tourneys ide say warp just for the amt of paint it can hold and reasons emntioned above

Yeah, there's no market - that's why they are selling like hot cakes. And the warp? It will be discontinued soon due to lack of interest. But you're right, no market. As for the guy that said they are the same speed, you're wrong. The Q shoots about 10 bps faster than a warp - roughly 50% faster.

[Empyreal Rogue]

I was not aware o that... but still... 100rds on a gun that can shoot anything from 15bps + is kinda stupid...

Unless u play front, and dont use any paint ever... heh..

Like me. I do more running than shooting.

1ofaKind, do you know anything about the Q-Loader? The Warp Feed and Q-Loader are nowhere near each other in speed. First off the Warp Feed can only feed as fast as the hopper on it can feed so you're severely limited unless you WANT to put a bulky HALO B on it...

GoatBoy, I agree that only a handful of the mounting spots are comfortable, but how many HALOs can be mounted anywhere other than on the Feed Neck? That was my point. He was whining about the "lack of areas to mount the Q-Loader" which is just plain silly, I think. Beggers can't be choosers. And as for mounting the Warp anywhere else... Ummm... how and where would you do that? o_O

[Lohman446]

But the warp is more forgiving of stupidity.

Take one of those Q-loaders apart without reading the directions and try to get it to work riht again... :wow: :cuss: Q loader pod.. mine lasted abotu three games before the first pod found a surprise endign, when I yanked it off and showed it the bunker.. :cuss:

Great idea though, it just outsmarted me

[mixwell2]

Well I have used both on my mag and I have to say I like the Warp Better.
Like I allways say just find one and try 'em both. Thats what I did and I like the Warp better.

It all comes down to personal feel.

They both are cabable of 22+ BPS. They both give a lower profile. The weight it a mute point. The warp weights 15ounces...if that throws off your game then you need to hit the gym.
The Warp does give you a tighter profile than the Q-loader even when the Q is under the barrel or next to the tank since in these postions the feed hose is "more in the open" except on the tippman
q picks (http://www.qloader.com/news.html)

The only draw back of the warp vs. the q loader is batteries.

Besides if you are gonna throw strings of paint at 20+ bps then you shouldn't get either one. Get a Halo B and learn to play tighter in your bunker
I will get a Q loader when they make a marker that shoot 80+bps and doesn't chop paint

[the larch]

First, the speed of reloading a qloader in proficent hands is ALOT faster than reloading a hopper. The "not enough ammo" argument IMHO is silly. Uhm, how much does a halo hold? 140? Is it really worth the extra weight?
With a jt slam pack, (what I use) a qloader magazine goes right back into the pack. Yank it out slam it into your pack and yank out a new one...simple.
I have a hard time believing that anyone thinks that the dissassembly and reassembly of a warp is EASIER than that of a qloader pod. The only way a warp is easier is if you have EXPERIENCE with it beforehand.
As far as mounting options go.....come on. Compared to a regular hopper set up, or even a warp? The real limting factor of the q loader is the marker itself. Too bad there are no bottom feed markers out there....imagine that with a q-loader.
NO BATTERIES.
If you do screw up ONE of your pods, you have others, your day is not over.
I acknowledge that qloaders are new. They have bugs, but to me, it's pretty obvious that bottom loaded forcefed magazines are the future of paintball.
naysayers beware. You'll probably be buying something just like this within the next two years just to keep up with the rest of the field.

[mixwell2]

What would it matter if the marker was a bottom feed TODAY. A Warp on a PF mag is pretty close to a bottom feed. So if anyone has a PF mag with a Q loader speak up on the "insane" rate of fire. Markers can only shoot so fast without chopping. You said it yourself the limmiting factor for a q loader is todays markers. So for today you should use what feels comfortable.

In "two years" if markers can shoot fast enough then maybe everyone will have one. The q laoder is definetly ahead of its time.

As far as reloading "ALOT" faster. it takes less time to reload with a pod.
It took the q loader rep 9 seconds to switch out the tube

I had a friend time me. (5) tests and it took an average of six seconds to reload with a Halo B on my warp. Granted i tossed my pods but that is the advantage of a warp. In the last 8 years, that is as far back as I can remember, I have not lost a pod because of "tossing it" if I do loose one oh well $ 1.00 it is vs. $15

So a 3 second difference that really doe not sound like "ALOT" faster. In a senario or rec game 3 seconds probably makes no difference but in speed ball or close quaters 3 seconds can make all the difference

[GoatBoy]

As far as reloading "ALOT" faster. it takes less time to reload with a pod.
It took the q loader rep 9 seconds to switch out the tube

I had a friend time me. (5) tests and it took an average of six seconds to reload with a Halo B on my warp. Granted i tossed my pods but that is the advantage of a warp. In the last 8 years, that is as far back as I can remember, I have not lost a pod because of "tossing it" if I do loose one oh well $ 1.00 it is vs. $15

So a 3 second difference that really doe not sound like "ALOT" faster. In a senario or rec game 3 seconds probably makes no difference but in speed ball or close quaters 3 seconds can make all the difference

Quite frankly, I'm not going to even attempt the BPS speed issue. People just don't get it.


The reloading of a q-loader might be worse than a regular pod for one reason, and it's a political BS reason: from what I hear, some tournaments consider q-pods live equipment and thus you must put them back into your pack. This puts the q-loader at a clear disadvantage, which is I'm sure a result of some bigoted yahoo in the tournament scene wanting to see the q-loader killed. Otherwise, I'd just simply drop the pod as I reloaded.

If you do away with that, then reloading a Q is easily faster than a normal pod. It's also easier to keep your gun up and your eyes looking forward while doing it. When the pod's off, or empty, I usually get at least about 5 shots from the tube, and the good thing about the level 10 is if I run the pod dry and get a half feed, I still have less chance of chopping one.

Lastly, there is one thing that AIC could do to the q-loader to drop the reload time even further . Of course, they don't listen to me, so they're stuck with their bumbling idiot demonstrating his 9 second reloads.


Actually, I'd like to see you doing your 6-second reload on your warp. Preferably with paint, because you have to watch the paint get in there and maybe sometimes scoop excess paint. I'm not saying it can't be done, but doing it properly and well as quickly as reloading a q-loader is a tall order.


Empyreal Rogue: I was saying that even though there are a lot of "options", most of them are really nonsensical. Of all the current mounting options, there are two that probably work the best, and I still don't like either of those two.

[1ofkind]

How do you reload w/a Q loader anyway? Also isn't there a spiral thing in each pod?

[mixwell2]

Quite frankly, I'm not going to even attempt the BPS speed issue. People just don't get it.
It's also easier to keep your gun up and your eyes looking forward while doing it. When the pod's off, or empty, I usually get at least about 5 shots from the tube, and the good thing about the level 10 is if I run the pod dry and get a half feed, I still have less chance of chopping one.

Lastly, there is one thing that AIC could do to the q-loader to drop the reload time even further . Of course, they don't listen to me, so they're stuck with their bumbling idiot demonstrating his 9 second reloads.


Actually, I'd like to see you doing your 6-second reload on your warp. Preferably with paint, because you have to watch the paint get in there and maybe sometimes scoop excess paint. I'm not saying it can't be done, but doing it properly and well as quickly as reloading a q-loader is a tall order.


You won't touch the BPS issue because you know as well as I do that the Q loader can feed 500 bps and it would not change the fact that it is restricted by the markers of today...as I stated in my post.

As far as keeping your gun up well that is what makes some players better than others. I have seen plenty of warp and "conventioal" loader users keep their guns up and eyes forward. Since they both use a tube feed both can get "extra" shots. The difference is that I can reloader whenever I want. A q has to wait until you are dry...unless of course you like waisting paint. I mean it would not make sense to pull off my halo for a full one when i have 10+ shots left...I would just fill it and keep those 10+ rounds

It is not my fault that I takes the guy 9 seconds but that was the only reference I had. He was going as fast as he could and so was I. Granted in "real game" conditions it may take me 45 seconds but I just tried to simulate his test.

I will agree with you on one point the L10 does kick a** good thing I have one in my mag too.

[Magglerock]

Lastly, there is one thing that AIC could do to the q-loader to drop the reload time even further . Of course, they don't listen to me, so they're stuck with their bumbling idiot demonstrating his 9 second reloads.

[/URL]



Empyreal Rogue: I was saying that even though there are a lot of "options", most of them are really nonsensical. Of all the current mounting options, there are two that probably work the best, and I still don't like either of those two.

What was your suggestion?

[Evil Bob]

Capacity

Q-Loader: 100 rounds. They will have longer pods in the future to hold more paint per reload.

Normal hoppers: 180-200+ rounds


Feed Speed comparison:

They're both faster then your marker, so what's the point on debating this one?


Reload comparison:

Q-loader:

This is assuming you're dumping your empty pods on the ground...

1) hand moves from gun.
2) hand to Q-loader, pulls empty pod from loader.
3) hand to pack, pulls full pod.
4) hand to Q-loarder, inserts full pod.
5) hand back to gun.

With practice it takes 5 seconds. If you're not dumping your pods, add an extra 5 seconds to put the empty into the pack before you're reloading.


Regular hoppers.

1) hand moves from gun.
2) hand pulls full pod from pack.
3) hand moves to hopper.
4) pop hopper and pod open, dump, and drop pod.
5) hand closes hopper (optional).
6) hand back to gun

With practice, it takes 5 seconds to reload. Take your time putting the empty back into your pack, you're already done reloading.

For you guys debating speed, just watch video of tourny players dumping paint into their hoppers, they do it pretty damn fast. Anyone who has spent alot of time on the speedball fields will tell you that it takes practice practice, practice to load fast, it's a necessary skill.

My personal feelings on the two:

I like having 180+ rounds over only 100.

I use a warp. I like having an extra 10 rounds in the warp that will feed once my hopper (halo) is empty and spinning madly. I like to have paint in my marker at all times when playing especially while reloading, which is a very opportune time to get mugged. I can't stand not being able to fire back at any time, this is the primary reason why I dont like the q-loader all that much and gave it to my kid.

Tourney rules on the q-loader: this has to do with the force feed mechanism in the pods themselves. If I were to set my warp or my hopper down on the field, either would be fair game to shoot to eliminate me because those devices are deemed a physical part of the marker to make it shoot paint, the Q-Loader cannot shoot paint without it's pod mounted, that's just the way it works. This isn't a new rule they added just to exclude the q-loaders, its a rule that's been around for quite a while. Hell a few years ago they used to shoot pods that were left on the ground, they used to make you pack everything with you or risk getting eliminated. That rule changed and more then likely as popularity for the q-loader grows this stupid rule will change as well.

-Evil Bob

[GoatBoy]

You won't touch the BPS issue because you know as well as I do that the Q loader can feed 500 bps and it would not change the fact that it is restricted by the markers of today...as I stated in my post.

As far as keeping your gun up well that is what makes some players better than others. I have seen plenty of warp and "conventioal" loader users keep their guns up and eyes forward. Since they both use a tube feed both can get "extra" shots. The difference is that I can reloader whenever I want. A q has to wait until you are dry...unless of course you like waisting paint. I mean it would not make sense to pull off my halo for a full one when i have 10+ shots left...I would just fill it and keep those 10+ rounds

It is not my fault that I takes the guy 9 seconds but that was the only reference I had. He was going as fast as he could and so was I. Granted in "real game" conditions it may take me 45 seconds but I just tried to simulate his test.

I will agree with you on one point the L10 does kick a** good thing I have one in my mag too.

I won't touch the BPS issue because it's a red herring. It's fast enough to keep up with you. That's a positive, not a negative. Trying to make it sound like a negative is stretching it.

Keeping a gun up while reloading a conventional loader is NOT an easy task. If you don't believe me, just find some videos and watch them yourself; I already made a thread about it. I sat down and started watching videos looking for this specific thing, and it took me a long time to find an instance of it being successfully executed.

Let me be really specific: you say you've seen people reload gun up, eyes forward. Is that how YOU reload, every time? If not, why not? Would you benefit from a mechanism which would make doing it easier?

And while you say you can reload whenever you want, what happens when you reload when the halo's not completely empty? You waste paint. You fill what you can and then you scoop and toss the rest out. Most of the time people aren't fitting their entire contents of a pod into their halo; they play the scoop and dump game which takes both time and attention while wasting paint.

I know it's not your fault that the q-loader rep's a little slow on the draw. But perhaps now you can say you're a little better informed?




Magglerock: In order of difficulty,

1. Make the pods auto-ejecting when they reach the end (probably too difficult)
2. Put a spring in the socket so the pod pops off by only twisting it (probably have issues fitting this in properly)
3. Put some sort of tab or wing on the q-pod or something where you can get the pod out of the socket without having to grab it. Maybe some sort of lever you just hit to get the pod off or something.

The q-loader reload shares one slow point with reloading conventional hoppers: reaching back to your pack to get the next pod.

The problem is we only have two hands, and one of those hands is holding the gun up. We can't reach back and grab a new pod until the current pod has been removed.

The solution is to make it so that you don't need full dexterity to remove a current pod. This way you can reach back and grab the new pod at your leisure when you know a reload is coming up, then when you're ready, you smack the old pod off and immediately stuff the new one on. The effective user/gun downtime for a reload like this would be... what, 2-3 seconds?

[GoatBoy]

Regular hoppers.

1) hand moves from gun.
2) hand pulls full pod from pack.
3) hand moves to hopper.
4) pop hopper and pod open, dump, and drop pod.
5) hand closes hopper (optional).
6) hand back to gun


Good, someone else has at least taken the time to analyze this.

However, you missed a few things... The scoop and dump, and the tilt gun forward. They're part of every nutritious reload. Yes, it takes practice, practice, practice. In fact, some (most?) people, even after practice, still can't get it completely right.



For you guys debating speed, just watch video of tourny players dumping paint into their hoppers, they do it pretty damn fast. Anyone who has spent alot of time on the speedball fields will tell you that it takes practice practice, practice to load fast, it's a necessary skill.


http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132648



Tourney rules on the q-loader: this has to do with the force feed mechanism in the pods themselves. If I were to set my warp or my hopper down on the field, either would be fair game to shoot to eliminate me because those devices are deemed a physical part of the marker to make it shoot paint, the Q-Loader cannot shoot paint without it's pod mounted, that's just the way it works. This isn't a new rule they added just to exclude the q-loaders, its a rule that's been around for quite a while. Hell a few years ago they used to shoot pods that were left on the ground, they used to make you pack everything with you or risk getting eliminated. That rule changed and more then likely as popularity for the q-loader grows this stupid rule will change as well.


Actually, I'm having trouble understanding this... Because its force fed, it's deemed a physical part of the marker? Is that what the ruling is?

[yakitori]

Id go w/ the warp feed. Its gotta be annoying reloading your Qpods in between matches. Like said above, they dont hold many balls. And if you mount it under the barrel, it is kinda front heavy, your loader may get in the way of sticking your barrel in areas it would go otherwise. regular pods are dispensible. Bigcell, w/ on/off switch will last you a couple months on batts, or a couple cases of paint.

the assumption that a warp feed is only as fast as the loader on top is ridiculous. The guy I bought my emag from ran a 12V warp on a 12V revy w/ xboard and said he never had misfires at ROF of 17 bps. The warp feeds faster than the hopper for around 20 balls or so, then the hopper has to replenish the balls going into the warp. I just put a halo on it cause I like to be assured that there will be no gaps no matter how fast I shoot.

I think you should get a warpfeed, do the bigcell mod w/ on/off switch and put a revy w/ xboard on it.

[mixwell2]

Keeping a gun up while reloading a conventional loader is NOT an easy task.

Let me be really specific: you say you've seen people reload gun up, eyes forward. Is that how YOU reload, every time? If not, why not? Would you benefit from a mechanism which would make doing it easier?

And while you say you can reload whenever you want, what happens when you reload when the halo's not completely empty? You waste paint. You fill what you can and then you scoop and toss the rest out. Most of the time people aren't fitting their entire contents of a pod into their halo; they play the scoop and dump game which takes both time and attention while wasting paint.

I know it's not your fault that the q-loader rep's a little slow on the draw. But perhaps now you can say you're a little better informed?

You are right keeping a gun up is not an easy task...but I can do it and apparently so can everyone with a Q loader

Of course I Don't reload eyes forward all the time...Do you?? Why, because alot of the times ya just don't have to. Would I benefit from something making it eaiser....of course

I don't reload when the Halo is not empty. Like most players I know, we know when the hopper has enough paint in it to accept a full pods load. This means no scooping or dumping.

And since you are being really specific...your whole point of view, which is sound and does have merit, is based on a q loader that is mounted in a location that is in direct line of site when looking forward. So what happens when the Q loader is located in a position where it is not?? You get used to the repetition of the movements and location and are able to look forward with gun up while reloading....just like you would with a warp

So again like I said in my first post...it all comes down to personal feel. I have treid both and like the warp. I am sure you have done the same and like the Q loader better

I guess we will agree do disagree

[mixwell2]

Actually, I'm having trouble understanding this... Because its force fed, it's deemed a physical part of the marker? Is that what the ruling is?


I think the interpretation of the rule in this case is anything that can directly "feed" the balls into the marker without any other outside assistance is considered part of the marker.
Since technically you could use a 10 round tube to feed a warp or just physicaly put the balls in by hand it is considered part of the marker. Since you can't use a pod only to load balls directly into the marker they do not fall under this rule.

I don't think it has to be a force feed marker. A gravity or a aggitating loader may also be considered part of the marker

So any hopper, and warp feed, and a Q loader would all be considered part of the marker

If I have this completly a** backwards someone please correct me.

[mixwell2]

the assumption that a warp feed is only as fast as the loader on top is ridiculous. The guy I bought my emag from ran a 12V warp on a 12V revy w/ xboard and said he never had misfires at ROF of 17 bps. The warp feeds faster than the hopper for around 20 balls or so, then the hopper has to replenish the balls going into the warp. I just put a halo on it cause I like to be assured that there will be no gaps no matter how fast I shoot.

I think you should get a warpfeed, do the bigcell mod w/ on/off switch and put a revy w/ xboard on it.

Yakitori...is it correct that a big cell mod runs around 17BPS while a 12V mod rund around 22bps??

[yakitori]

yes, a regular 9V warp will get around 15-16bps, and the bigcell mod adds about 1-2 bps. Also, the bigcell mod nearly doubles battery life. Esp if you put a switch on it.

The 12V mod will get up to around 22-24bps.

I have warps on both my guns, I just had a bigcell mod w/ switch on one of them done by havoc. The other one is custom modded 12v, it was like that when I bought it.

[AGDlover]

get the warp for comeplete reliablity i love AGD i only have 3 things on my gun that aren't agd Tank cover, Hopper and my barrel

[Empyreal Rogue]

The real deciding factor between the Q-Loader and Warp Feed is: What position do you play?

If you play front you're most likely going to want the Q-Loader. It's lighter, lower overall profile, smaller- perfect for a Front Player (Like myself.).

If you play middle either is fine but the Warp would probably be best.

If you play back then definitely the Warp Feed. The Q-Loader doesn't have a high enough capacity to 'properly' lay down streams of paint.

For my next marker I'm definitely going to buy a Warp Feed. I almost bought one some years ago but the price pushed me away. But now that I have a well paying job and work more (Hoorah for the Summer) I can easily afford to buy a Warp Feed. But I still won't for some more time.

[GoatBoy]

Of course I Don't reload eyes forward all the time...Do you?? Why, because alot of the times ya just don't have to. Would I benefit from something making it eaiser....of course

No, I don't always reload like this. But I constantly hear this argument from other people, and usually it's people running their mouths (not saying that's you, just saying in general). "I keep my gun up and rolling all the time while reloading!" Yeah, right.


I don't reload when the Halo is not empty. Like most players I know, we know when the hopper has enough paint in it to accept a full pods load. This means no scooping or dumping.

Well, then it's safe to say you aren't reloading whenever you want. You reload when the halo gets empty enough to accept a full pod's load. Your argument is that you can reload whenever you want, but it's clear you're only reloading after the halo's been run down far enough to accept a full pod. In order to exercise the freedom of "reloading whenever you want," you will lose time, paint, and attention. The 'scoop and dump' as I call it. Or the scoop and dump + tilt gun forward so you can fit more paint in there.


And since you are being really specific...your whole point of view, which is sound and does have merit, is based on a q loader that is mounted in a location that is in direct line of site when looking forward. So what happens when the Q loader is located in a position where it is not?? You get used to the repetition of the movements and location and are able to look forward with gun up while reloading....just like you would with a warp

So again like I said in my first post...it all comes down to personal feel. I have treid both and like the warp. I am sure you have done the same and like the Q loader better

It's perfectly reasonable to say the q-loader's not always going to be mounted in a position where this is feasible. As I said before, there are only two realistic q mounting options out there currently, and neither of these two I like. The most optimal in my mind hasn't been done yet due to the current mounting socket disaster.



Anyways, it's all good. It's good to see people thinking about things as opposed to just blindly going with the crowd.

[mixwell2]

I agree Goatboy. Debate is a great way to aquire all points of view and improve on ones knowledge.

Yakitori...I did the big cell mod my self and liked it. I just received the 12v from Havoc and tried it out. Did not really notice a diference since it was on my mech mag...but I put it on my teammates 3.2 Xmag. He was consistantly out shooting his stock warp...well not any more. That thing Flies

[Evil Bob]

You want to learn to load fast? Practice. You want to learn how to do it without looking at your hopper? Practice. You want to learn to load quickly while not looking at your hopper while under fire? Practice. Watching TV is a great time to practice loading without looking. Put an hour a day into it for a month or two and it will become second nature, you'll be loading in your sleep.

Reloading is a skill just like any other skill in paintball (snapshooting, bunker hugging, etc.), and like any other skill, it takes lots of practice to refine. You can teach yourself to not look at your loader and load quickly, it all happens through lots and lots of practice.

-Evil Bob

[yakitori]

The real deciding factor between the Q-Loader and Warp Feed is: What position do you play?

If you play front you're most likely going to want the Q-Loader. It's lighter, lower overall profile, smaller- perfect for a Front Player (Like myself.).

If you play middle either is fine but the Warp would probably be best.

If you play back then definitely the Warp Feed. The Q-Loader doesn't have a high enough capacity to 'properly' lay down streams of paint.

For my next marker I'm definitely going to buy a Warp Feed. I almost bought one some years ago but the price pushed me away. But now that I have a well paying job and work more (Hoorah for the Summer) I can easily afford to buy a Warp Feed. But I still won't for some more time.

hey rogue. If you decide to get the warp, go ahead and do the big cell w/ on/off switch. It is very worth it. You will be glad you did. The mod will pay itself off in battery life, and it adds one to a couple of bps speed to the warp. If not the bigcell, at least put a switch on.

anyway, just thought Id let ya know that. you wont regret it. very convenient.

later,
yak

[AGDlover]

where can i get plans/instuctions for the on/off switch???

[yakitori]

www.havoc-online.com

[Empyreal Rogue]

hey rogue. If you decide to get the warp, go ahead and do the big cell w/ on/off switch. It is very worth it. You will be glad you did. The mod will pay itself off in battery life, and it adds one to a couple of bps speed to the warp. If not the bigcell, at least put a switch on.

anyway, just thought Id let ya know that. you wont regret it. very convenient.

later,
yak

There's no "if" Yak, I'm definitely going to get it for my next Automag. :)

I absolutely LOVE my Q-Loader but I want another feed system capable of laying down paint. The Q-Loader isn't really a lay-down paint system, it's a quick snap-shooting system. The other reason is because I love the Warp Feed as much as my Q-Loader, which is a lot. :D

Does the Big Cell mod work on any hopper? I was thinking of just using the AK I still have.

[Z-man]

I suspect you have all seen it by now but I added the Viking video and the one comparing the Halo B and QLoader is coming up soon today.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=143483

On a side not thought it has been said I would like to echo some of the things mentioned

1- Warp/Halo B/Qloader you are NOT going to out shoot them unless you are haveing the electronics shoot for you so you cannot really argue that.

2- Of the 3, the QLoader is the only one that can feed from ony posistion for the entire capactiy. The warp and the Halo still rely on gravity. How important is that? perhaps a bit more for a front player or a scenario player.

3- The QLoader IMHO is NOT for a back player. regardless of if it can be loaded faster or shoots faster, it only hold 100 rounds. Even the Halo B with its smaller 170 round capacity allows you to hold someone in that much longer.