If I were to get a non-AGD marker

[Miscue]

I'm perfectly happy with my EMag. IMO, it's the definitive e-marker and I have no reason to get anything else. It's fast and works perfectly.

However, say my EMag gets runover or something - and I need a new marker and the EMag is discontinued. I looked at all the new markers, and all the high end ones are like $1400. Personally, I think they are way over-priced... and I don't quite understand where they put $1400 worth of stuff (including a reasonable profit). I will not buy a $1000+ marker - because I think it's a waste... even if I had the cash in hand.

The closest thing that I think is an ok value, is an E-Bladed Cocker which is around $650. BKOs are cheap, but I don't know much about them... and an E-Spyder or Dragun just doesn't fancy me.

Getting to my point... I think there is a hole in the market. There's a lot of $300 cheapies, then the 900-$1400 ones. But I don't know of any ~$500 markers that really give you no reason to go out and buy a more expensive one, unless you got money to burn or really want that new fancy milling. Has anyone noticed this, or am I just overlooking something? There ought to be that ~$500 gem of a marker.

I was thinking about the next supposed AGD marker, assumably with a hair trigger - I think it's ideal for scenarios, and I have to wonder if it will also fill that hole I was talking about... and maybe be that ~$500 gem.

Thoughts?

[Bad_Dog]

yeah,

That theory would appeal to people on more than one level, even me :p

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Did you happen to forget about B2k's and Imps? Those are in the 500 range. But yor correct, they isnt much in that range. And due to that lack of markers in the range, everyone just saves and gets the 1k markers.

I really hope it will be less than 900. I think it would be one of the markers that would be worth it's price tag.

[1stdeadeye]

A new Shocker with Vision is around $800 so it is in that tweener catagory.

[teufelhunden]

Getting to my point... I think there is a hole in the market. There's a lot of $300 cheapies, then the 900-$1400 ones. But I don't know of any ~$500 markers that really give you no reason to go out and buy a more expensive one, unless you got money to burn or really want that new fancy milling. Has anyone noticed this, or am I just overlooking something? There ought to be that ~$500 gem of a marker.

Thoughts?

Well, for one, the used $500-900 market is full of Trix's and Timmys. On top of that, Rat Imps can be had for around 500-600. Shockers roll in around 650, no need for any upgrades other than a HE bolt really. B2K w/ PDS is supposed to be decent if you get new regs, which will run like 600-650. Not that I'd let anyone get near it, but a PMI Omen with whatever you want will put you in that range. Evil Pimp is like 800, also supposed to be decent.

There ya go. :)

[Jaremy Rykker]

I guess the one other marker that you could put in the 400-900 range would be the RT-ULE Custom. With the Hair Trigger working with that, I would imagine it would be a very solid and potent marker for that price range, considering that the only thing keeping it from having the rate of fire of the Angels and such is that the trigger pull is rather stiff. If the trigger pull could be made equal, I really have no doubt that the RT-ULE could become a major contender in the scenario market.

-The RT-ULE is the only current marker to use the X-Valve which can shoot at a rate of 26 BPS without any shootdown. It has the potential to be fastest shooting marker, although the stiff mechanical trigger slows down this rate. The Hair Trigger could be the solution to this, allowing the trigger to be walked and have a similiar rate of fire to any high-end electro.

-The RT-ULE and the other Automags used in tournament play are without a doubt some of the most reliable tournament-grade markers. You can spend more time practicing and less time worrying that your marker might not work. Level 10 also is as effective at eliminating chops as any eye or so I understand.

-The RT-ULE is a smaller profile gun, which is nice in tournaments, and is one of the lighter markers out there.

All in all, I can't see why the RT-ULE set up with a hair trigger couldn't be among the best markers for scenario play. And it definately goes into your $400-$900 range.

[RRfireblade]

Well I'd also vote for an Impulse or B2K.

Then perhaps an Omen in that price range.

The reason there's a niche in that area is that it's full of $1000+ used guns that are very often a great deal.Why buy lessor new when you can get much better 'used' or even NIB older models?

[xXHavokXx]

DM4

The end all be all, well till I build my Tunamax inspired hAir Mag

[Miscue]

My understanding from rumor in the chat room is that the NiCad trigger'd mag will be in the neighborhood of $900.

If it could be a full marker with NiCad trigger at $500, oh nellie AGD would be back-ordered indefinitly.

Well, I hope not... and I think that number should be ignored as it is speculation - AGD probably doesn't know yet what the price will be.

Although I'm of course an AGD fan, I would sooner buy a SuperCocker before a $650+ mechanical marker - I'm loyal, but I'm not stupid or wasteful. Personally, I would not bother releasing a mech marker regardless of a hair trigger if you can't sell it for $550 tops in stock condition - you may get AGD enthusiasts to buy it (not me though), but you're not going to attract new customers... it'll flop. So it's an awesome mech, whoopty-doo in the eyes of the consumers out there who will discount it immediately because it's not an electro. "But it's like an electro." "Ok, then why don't I just go buy an electro outright for that price?" "Uh... because... urm..."

A fair mech cannot and will not exceed (note I did not say "match") the ROF of an electro - ever. It will catch attention if it is affordable - and people will be willing to compromise with it not being a cheater e-gun. People will buy a mech marker as a compromise - so it needs to be priced to accommodate this. This will not be the "first-choice" purchase, it will be bought because they can't afford the $900+ markers - or like me, just don't want to spend that much. $500 super mech = hotcake potential - and then make your money on mid/high margin upgrades. If you build it, they will upgrade it and spend mad dough on stuff to "trick it out!"

You have to take into consideration that you're not the only game in town, and historically the other companies have been kicking your butt in sales. Asides from wishful thinking, why would a $650+ mech marker from AGD sell?

[Miscue]

Well, for one, the used $500-900 market is full of Trix's and Timmys. On top of that, Rat Imps can be had for around 500-600. Shockers roll in around 650, no need for any upgrades other than a HE bolt really. B2K w/ PDS is supposed to be decent if you get new regs, which will run like 600-650. Not that I'd let anyone get near it, but a PMI Omen with whatever you want will put you in that range. Evil Pimp is like 800, also supposed to be decent.

There ya go. :)

Well, the used situation throws a monkey wrench into it. Regardless, I'd rather have a new gun for $500 that is as good as the used ones out there. Buying used has it's drawbacks.

[teufelhunden]

Eh, buying used has its ups and downs. Hence, feedback and third parties like www.seckspb.com [/shamelessplug]

[Miscue]

I think just the hair trigger alone is supposed to run around $300. I dont think your going to hit the bottom of the $400 for the marker with the hair trigger.

And marketing-wise, youll have a hard time selling a mechanical marker at $900 when there is a perceived value that the electro is a better value.

Exactly. People don't dump $900 into mech cockers anymore, which are more popular than mags. $650 = E-Bladed Cocker.

[jesseyo13]

I agree 100% with miscue. If the marker cost 500+ they might as well scrap the idea right now. They are only going to attract hardcore enthusiast, and not very many of those are gona wana spend more than 500$(including me). The marker needs to be able to compete $$$ wise with markers that have good reputations if they want the hAIR to really do well. The mag just doesn’t have a good name with a lot of people. They are considered slow and gas hogs. Witch really isnt a lie.
If they think they are going to get 900$ for the marker they are full of it. Look in that range. Nice ebladed cockers, trixes, speeds, a4s, shockers, freestyle and some timies. They basically just priced them selves out of the market.
Now lets say they sell it for as low as 450$. Are people who only go to scenario games going to want to spend 450 on a mag or go with something like the TES with cost 250? What ever the price is, they need to make it cheap enough that people are going to risk $$$ on a new design from a company that a lot of people don’t really but a lot of faith into.

[bokraham]

omens
impulses
shockers
new speeds and a4s are less than 900 at www.firstcallpaintball.com
cyborg
cockers

these are all mid/midhigh priced guns that can dish alot

[ghideon]

I'm in the same position as you at the moment. I've got an EMag, an RT ULE, and a VSC Phantom. As soon as PayPal clears the $$$, Logic will be shiping me out an E-Bladed Freeflow cocker. I'd take a look at those. Life time warranty (doesn't matter if it's new or used). I did look at the Superstock cockers, as well as the NightKast's and the Karnivores. Everyone here at AO recommended I go with FreeFlow. So that's what I'm doing. :hail:

[Miscue]

Out of curiousity, I posted this to get some feedback from non-AOers:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=562025

[RainTreeBoy]

For ~500, I think the best contender new would be a B2K w/ PDS. You can find those for 545 at www.shop4paintball.com

Anyways, I agree with Miscue also. I dont think maybe people would be willing to go much over 600-650 for a mech marker.

Does anyone know if the next gun AGD releases will have anything else new other than the hAir trigger? I think if they release something new, they should completely make it over with new parts, not just a new frame. I'm sure most of the info floating around a new gun is just rumors, but I'm curious to know.

[jesseyo13]

If you mention that its a mag too, peoples opinions change a lot. For me a large portion of my gun choice is in effeicency. I got tired of only getting 600 of a 68/3000 fill and Im sure on not the only person who sold a mag for that reason.

[Blazestorm]

Miscue - Revenge V2 LE w/ 68/4500 Conquest... randomly my friend happens to have one for-sale... it's just out of your price range...

It's a mech cocker going for 800... 1100 with Conquest... I'm getting around 800 out of my Revenge... It's possible.

I recommend you get what you want, Get something from a respected company that's not going to give you problems. I already have my RT ULE, I plan on getting a few more things for it and finally getting a hAir trigger... It may be 250-300, but it's pure mechanical, solid reliability. I don't want to worry about electronics getting screwed in the NW because of rain or mud. I don't want to worry about replacing the battery or ruining some of the fragile electronics in these guns. People are going out and paying 130 dollars for a new board for the gun, that doesn't make it that much faster. hAir is just fast. .01" trigger pull, 2oz weight... that's going to be fuuunnnnn

If anything I think you should build a cocker from scratch for the hell of it... cockers are fun guns :ninja:

[RainTreeBoy]

People are going out and paying 130 dollars for a new board for the gun, that doesn't make it that much faster. hAir is just fast. .01" trigger pull, 2oz weight... that's going to be fuuunnnnn
Actually thats a very good point. A lot of people pay lots of money to buy new boards and get magnetic frames or 90* Frames, so I dont see why a whole new frame thats completely mech with an electro pull is crazy. It would be cool if they could make it for cheaper though, because it would appeal to more people. I heard the hAir is going to be around 250-350, is that true?

[FragTek]

It's all about the Cyborg :) Sub $1000, and rips titties :D

[Miscue]

Miscue - Revenge V2 LE w/ 68/4500 Conquest... randomly my friend happens to have one for-sale... it's just out of your price range...

It's a mech cocker going for 800... 1100 with Conquest... I'm getting around 800 out of my Revenge... It's possible.

I recommend you get what you want, Get something from a respected company that's not going to give you problems. I already have my RT ULE, I plan on getting a few more things for it and finally getting a hAir trigger... It may be 250-300, but it's pure mechanical, solid reliability. I don't want to worry about electronics getting screwed in the NW because of rain or mud. I don't want to worry about replacing the battery or ruining some of the fragile electronics in these guns. People are going out and paying 130 dollars for a new board for the gun, that doesn't make it that much faster. hAir is just fast. .01" trigger pull, 2oz weight... that's going to be fuuunnnnn

If anything I think you should build a cocker from scratch for the hell of it... cockers are fun guns :ninja:

Thanks. I'm not really looking for a marker, just asking a hypothetical question.

[Major Jam]

It's all about the Cyborg :) Sub $1000, and rips titties :D

OMG Frag, its tits... and it rips... but ripping titties sounds mean. :) I mean I like a soft caress as much as the next guy, but please don't rip them. :rofl:

Add one more vote for the Cyborg.

[tyrion2323]

Here are some "In-Between" options. They have probably been posted, but I'm tired right now.

Evil Omen
BushMaster w/PDS
BushMaster BKO
OGI 03
Impulse (and its variants)
Hybrid Numatix (ebladed = $900)

I can hook you up with Hybrid if you're lookin.

Jacob

[DK1]

PDS bushmasters are what I would basically tell anyone to get if they are going to spend less than $700. They are really, really hard to beat. IMO, impulses require quite a bit of aftermarket gear to get them close to the stock performance of a PDS. And even at that, I've never liked any custom impulse as much as I did the two stock PDS bushy's I had.



DK1

[Koosh]

I think the hAirymag will take off, but it won't become the 'new tourney gun' for one simple reason.

You can't make cheater boards for mechanical guns. Too many people have signed on with SP for there to be a good enough market for the super-mechs...

Other then AGD, who's going to make them?

[trevorjk]

hrm a brand new ule pro from agd with black ule body stock on/off no barrel and basic trigger frame cost about $350... and lets say add a $300 hair frame. your still only $650ish so honestly i dont see how its going to be $900 :confused:


3 RT-ULE Custom

Select an X-Valve : Black
Select a Mainbody : ULE CF Black Mainbody
Select a Gripframe : Single Trigger Carbon Fiber Frame Assy
Select a Barrel : No Barrel
Trigger/Valve/On/Off Type : On/Off Assy -RT/Retro (.750 Pin) - Stock Assy
Delivery Signature : No Signature on Delivery
Freight Insurance : Insurance

total = $351.00

add a speculated $300 to that for $651... so there for the hair mag will only be worth 900 if you get all the fancy nicad fixings

[SlipknotX556]

I would go for the E blade cocker, its probably the best of the 500-700 guns.

[Crazy]

GZ timmys are running ~550$ now... few upgrades if it's stock, and you have a gun that can rip grills off hardcore for less than 700$.

[Digits]

If you've shot something like a DM4 you will know why the price tag is on that marker.. Why should DYE lower the price when people are willing to pay that?

I know damn well I would pay what DYE is asking for a DM4... There is no other marker like it..

[jesseyo13]

I think 650 is too much. Why are you going to spend 650 when you can get impys for 550 with eyes? For the hAIR mag to do well it needs to be below 500. People dont seem to get it. The mag needs to prove it self again. Look at pbn, most people dont like mags. Who cares what they think you say? They make up what most people think, therfore they matter a lot more than what we think as agd fans. To prove it self agd needs to offer everything everybody else does for the same price or less. Most people dont want a pf body, they want low rise. So that has to come with every mag. Every electro comes with a double trigger frame, so does the mag.

Heres what every electro has in a mag form without the hAIR

Select an X-Valve : Black
Select a Mainbody : ULE CF Pewter Mainbody
Select a Barrel : No Barrel
Trigger/Valve/On/Off Type : ULE Trigger Pull Kit/Installed
Delivery Signature : Signature on Delivery
Freight Insurance : Insurance =$380.00
380+300=682
380+350=732

So a mag with the hair trigger will run about 682-732. I hate to say it, but I would rather have a impulse for 550 than a hAIR mag for 680. I hope tom has more sence than to try to sell the hAIR for 500+ because its just not gona happen.

[ilikePB]

Just adding another marker to the midrange price, the AM Diadem, it's supposedly a pretty sweet gun for the price. I also might be picking up a FF cocker instead of a DevilMag that I hoped for because I found a good deal on a used one and would rather save a couple hundred dollars. Hopefully I can get a DevilMag later. Personally I'd buy a hAir trigger RT ULE Pro for $500-$600. Compared to what guns are in that price range it would be just as fast, have an anti chop device, but it would be more reliable most likely. My .02

[trevorjk]

you dont need a ult for the hairframe... and whats so grat about eyes when u got lx

[teufelhunden]

Because eyes don't let the marker cycle if there's nothing there, LX still cycles and therefore lowers your bps further and wastes air.

[GT]

and I don't quite understand where they put $1400 worth of stuff (including a reasonable profit). I will not buy a $1000+ marker - because I think it's a waste... even if I had the cash in hand.?


'scue,
come on you should know this from hanging around here on AO. There is very rarly a big difference bewteen a 700 dollar gun and a 1400 dollar one. Infact the only difference is really a fancy mill and anno. Its been that way for years now.

How much would I spend on a e fast mech gun, the same as an e gun. Problem is ROF is not the only thing I look for when buying a new rig. Fast, Light, relible, and effiencent.

Problem,
I dont think the hair trigger is going to be cheap. I have this idea, however unfounded, that it is going to cost bewteen 2-300 bucks.

Its hard to bring a mech to the market that requires a certian amount of tunning when you can buy an e gun that is insanly fast and shoot a case on one fill.

[Miscue]

'scue,
come on you should know this from hanging around here on AO. There is very rarly a big difference bewteen a 700 dollar gun and a 1400 dollar one. Infact the only difference is really a fancy mill and anno. Its been that way for years now.



Yeah, I know!

I find it ironic how it costs more money to have material removed in strategic locations, ending up with 'less' gun! Being pretty ain't cheap I guess.

[Lurker27]

It's all about the older angels...throw chaos/ACE on them, and you've got essentially an A4 fly in the neighborhood of $350.

I picked up a 99 LED for $220.

If it doesn't work like you hoped out of the box, send it for gold service at TAG. Comes back not needing to be TOUCHED for the next 30 cases or so.

In the mag market, the answer, I'd think, is to simply build your own Pneu-mag/Hair trigger.
If you look hard enough, its not that tough, and cocker pneumatics are a dime a dozen. Stock LPR and Rams houdl cost you $20 or so, and you can either rig up a simple E-valve or do a small 3-way style valve.

[Blazestorm]

A stock impulse is a POS.

This is a FULLY UPGRADED Mag for 650-700. You will not need another upgrade for it. Unless you want to remove weight or add an adjustable neck. The Impulse is 550, with 0 upgrades, and those things are crap stock.

The hAir is worth it for 250-300. It's a fully mechanical frame with the pull of an electro. No batteries, no electronics, no bounce, no ramping nothing.

Miscue : Get whatever you want man :D or Instead... come up to the NW for a huge AO day, our field is lending us airball bunkers to setup how we want, and we get the field for the day. If their AM team isn't practicing we can setup a 10man field, otherwise we'll be doing a 5-7man field :ninja:

[Steelrat]

I can't believe no one else has mentioned it, but the Viking WAS the best mid level electro out there. Fast, reliable, simple, and efficient. What else could you want. Too bad they were KIA, but at least they are so tough that you will be able to find them on the used market for a looong time. Great ones are going for $700-800 or so.

But if I didnt shoot an AKA gun, Id be all over an eblade cocker.

[Digits]

some of you people don't get it..

The DM4's/Alias's are the best of the best.. The cream of the crop.. You can go around talking about how you can hook up an impulse/b2k4 for alot less and have it shoot as good.. But I know for a fact an out of the box DM4 will shoot BETTER then any hooked up impulse.. Believe me.. My brothers nasty imp was hooked up to the max.. All of the best parts, every ND upgrade you can imagine.. And it still sucked for what he paid for everything..

Now you pay the same 1400 for a DM4 out of the box, that performs substantially better then a completly upped impy..

See theres the difference..

You buy an imp with eyes for 400 or w/e.. Fine.. But it is going to cost you ALOT of money do get that imp shooting even half decent.. A DM4 out of the box, shoots perfect.. The only upgrade you need is a chip.. And that is only if you are flat out looking for something to upgrade on the gun.. Effeciency could be better.. But the only people who complain are the chumps who are stuck at fields without all day air..

So basically.. When you pay 1400$'s for that DM4.. You know your getting the best.. You know that gun will perform out of this world without a single upgrade done to it..

Now you want a cheaper gun? Fine.. Get one.. But it will never perform as good..

[Steelrat]

some of you people don't get it..

The DM4's/Alias's are the best of the best.. The cream of the crop.. You can go around talking about how you can hook up an impulse/b2k4 for alot less and have it shoot as good.. But I know for a fact an out of the box DM4 will shoot BETTER then any hooked up impulse.. Believe me.. My brothers nasty imp was hooked up to the max.. All of the best parts, every ND upgrade you can imagine.. And it still sucked for what he paid for everything..

Now you pay the same 1400 for a DM4 out of the box, that performs substantially better then a completly upped impy..

See theres the difference..

You buy an imp with eyes for 400 or w/e.. Fine.. But it is going to cost you ALOT of money do get that imp shooting even half decent.. A DM4 out of the box, shoots perfect.. The only upgrade you need is a chip.. And that is only if you are flat out looking for something to upgrade on the gun.. Effeciency could be better.. But the only people who complain are the chumps who are stuck at fields without all day air..

So basically.. When you pay 1400$'s for that DM4.. You know your getting the best.. You know that gun will perform out of this world without a single upgrade done to it..

Now you want a cheaper gun? Fine.. Get one.. But it will never perform as good..

Thats more opinion than fact. DM4s and Alias's are nice, but they arent the "best of the best." There are a good number of guns at the upper levels now.

I do agree about guns that need upgrades, however. Its best to invest in a gun that rips right out of the box, rather than one that needs a huge list of upgrades to perform. But the player with a limited budget can get the cheaper gun, then steadily upgrade it as resources become available.

[Digits]

^^

thats true..

But still.. I've never seen a completly upped imp shoot half as good as a DM4..

But...

There are still deffinetly competable guns sort of in the mid range..

Used trix's with eyes, and vikings, are easilly contendors..

[Steelrat]

^^

thats true..

But still.. I've never seen a completly upped imp shoot half as good as a DM4..

But...

There are still deffinetly competable guns sort of in the mid range..

Used trix's with eyes, and vikings, are easilly contendors..

Well, no matter how much crap you put on it, you can't make a civic into a Ferrari ;)

I have yet to shoot a gun that is any better than the viking. Sometimes I wonder why the price difference between an alias or DM4 and the viking exists. Is it the aesthetic virtues of the Bob Long and DYE stuff that warrants a premium?

[Blazestorm]

I forgot where Tom said it...

"Dye could make a pile of crap and sell millions... and Tippmann can get away with selling only Black guns..."

Something like that... :D

DM4's and Alias's are nice, but they're too common, and too overused. I go to the field and all I see are alias's and Dm4's

Actually playing woodsball I found ONE guy with a phantom, some right-feed cockers... even one e-cocker that was not a race, sandridge, eblade, worr-blade, or hyper-frame... it was one-of-a-kind (and looked good)

I like to have a gun that no one else has, when I'm done with my mag, it will be the nicest, lightest, fastest (legal) mechanical marker. It will be unique, and my own gun. I won't have an alias or Dm4 like everyone else.

[Skoad]

everyone saying the only reason why people buy the high end electros are because "you can cheat with them" are completely ignorant :cuss: :mad: :cuss: :mad:

[Blazestorm]

People buy electro's so they can shoot faster. That's about it :D

They buy high-end electro's to have the best of the best.

[GT]

Sometimes I wonder why the price difference between an alias or DM4 and the viking exists.


Yea I dont get it either,
My featherlite is a custom one off gun and it will run aroud 1200 bucks. Considering you cant get a DM4 or Alais from the factory in any color you want. I dunno for 1k+ I want something no one else has.

[Creative Mayhem]

Yea I dont get it either,
Considering you cant get a DM4 or Alais from the factory in any color you want. I dunno for 1k+ I want something no one else has.

My thoughts exactly, which was a prime reason why I jumped on the chance to get my xmag.

[The Action Figure]

I have always wanted a viking but my bushy was cheaper and is pretty freaking fast with chaos< my total setup cost next to nothing>
gun with tank- 225
halo- traded
chao chip- 30
otb frame- 130
cp barrel 40

425 full setup w money for paint left over, its all about good deals my friend

[Creative Mayhem]

I forgot where Tom said it...

"Dye could make a pile of crap and sell millions... and Tippmann can get away with selling only Black guns..."




The thing with DYE is correct, because they spend mucho $$ on marketing and advertising.

Tippmann has a strong rental market, while it doesn't sound glamourous, it does get thier markers in the hands of the new player, and what does the new player usually go buy as thier first gun? The same thing that they used as a rental, proving that the thing wasn't a PITA when they played. Now I have had discussions with a few people about this and the consesus is that if Tom put mags with returned classic valves out there for the rental market, then more new players would not only play one of the best days of paintball, they would also buy a mag for thier first marker. Not only would it generate sales for AGD but it would also bring more people into the fold of AGD owners, and not just people who don't have one and are posing as AGD users :P

[Duke Henry]

Best value gun under $1000: DYE DM3. Tis the gun I own and it runs beautifully. Maintenance is near 0, and I can achieve high rates of fire without having an illegal trigger.

I don't care if my gun looks "plain' - if I really did then I would get the DM4. However, I don't see that as being worth the price.

[jesseyo13]

Creative mayham is right. Tom must have truck loads of old classic valves. If he could sell them for the same price as a 98 tippmann (140) then he could sell them like hot cakes. They of course would need to run well off of co2. Just run steal braided hose in a circle from the asa to the valve. It would not need a level 10 of course. Its a great idea!

[teufelhunden]

The thing with DYE is correct, because they spend mucho $$ on marketing and advertising.

Tippmann has a strong rental market, while it doesn't sound glamourous, it does get thier markers in the hands of the new player, and what does the new player usually go buy as thier first gun? The same thing that they used as a rental, proving that the thing wasn't a PITA when they played. Now I have had discussions with a few people about this and the consesus is that if Tom put mags with returned classic valves out there for the rental market, then more new players would not only play one of the best days of paintball, they would also buy a mag for thier first marker. Not only would it generate sales for AGD but it would also bring more people into the fold of AGD owners, and not just people who don't have one and are posing as AGD users :P

Problem with that is the new kids would need to get an air system right off the bat.. while not necessarily a bad thing, but a bit expensive for a new kid who sees an HPA tank that will get him 500 shots for 70 or a co2 tank that will get him 1300 shots for 20. On top of that, newbs __will__ short stroke. Every time I see someone pick up my bud's single Dye framed L7, they short stroke it, chop, and hand it back...

[C_22]

Best value gun under $1000: DYE DM3. Tis the gun I own and it runs beautifully. Maintenance is near 0, and I can achieve high rates of fire without having an illegal trigger.


I agree 100%, dude get a Trix.

[sitting_duck]

I agree 100%, dude get a Trix.

i would agree that it is a great bang for your buck (one of the reasons i own one) but i wouldn't say it was the absolute best value. that nomination would go to the AKA viking. for $925 you can get an 04 viking with eyes/covers, pandora board, dye stickies, and a lifetime warrenty. however, this will only be true for the short time until AKA is finished assembling its final production run. another great marker that just barely makes the sub $1000 mark is the cyborg. fast, light, efficient, and very easy to maintain. but the matrix is a great marker as well, it just needs a little help in the efficiency department.

[RRfireblade]

Getting to my point... I think there is a hole in the market. There's a lot of $300 cheapies, then the 900-$1400 ones. But I don't know of any ~$500 markers that really give you no reason to go out and buy a more expensive one, unless you got money to burn or really want that new fancy milling. Has anyone noticed this, or am I just overlooking something? There ought to be that ~$500 gem of a marker.

Thoughts?

I find it quite funny how many people are suggesting $900+ markers when that was the exact opposite of the point that Miscue was making,that there is a hole in the $300-$900 range,as in, there 'should' be a marker in the ~$500 range that equals the performance of a $900+ marker.

But go ahead and keep naming $900+ markers to help him make his point. :D

[xXHavokXx]

If you've shot something like a DM4 you will know why the price tag is on that marker.. Why should DYE lower the price when people are willing to pay that?

I know damn well I would pay what DYE is asking for a DM4... There is no other marker like it..


Damn straight. Ive known guys to sell nexus cockers for a grand just to get money for a DM4 quickly. They simply are amazing

[jesseyo13]

roquefactor- They cant keep the ULE custom Pro in stock because they dont understand that you need to have more than 10 parts in stock.

[ilikePB]

roquefactor- They cant keep the ULE custom Pro in stock because they dont understand that you need to have more than 10 parts in stock.
:rofl: