A question for AGD

[Punisher]

Hi Tom,
I was asked this weekend at a local "Big Game" if I had any idea what you/AGD proper thought of the PneuMag that I built a while back....

(bracing myself for the possible backlash)

If you want, you could E-mail me to keep it private or lay it all out here......

thanks for your time!

[BlackVCG]

Where about are you in Oregon?

For those of you that haven't see the Punisher Mag, it's at the bottom of this page. http://airsoldier.com/~punisher/gallery.html

[Punisher]

Just west of Portland, Hillsboro to be exact though the PO box for the shop is Aloha, Oregon.....

[BlackVCG]

It's a small world after all... I live in the rural area outside of North Plains. Right now I'm in Klamath Falls at the Oregon Institute of Technology. Do you play at Weekend Warriors at all? If so, I'll probably see you around there sometime this next summer.

[Punisher]

Small world for sure! Yeah, I was out at W.W. quite a lot for a while there, especially with the team. I had to ease out of the though, too much time away from the shop.
I spend more time at Splat Action or Warpaint outdoor in Salem. If the weather is really pi$$y then I'll hit the indoor joint in Tigard.

Lemme know when you're in town next and mayhaps we can hook up for some P-ball.......

[AGD]

That was pretty cool!! Kind of looked like you put a Mag and a Cocker through a matter transporter and screwed up their DNA!! LOL Remember the movie "The Fly"? That should be called the Fly Mag!

AGD

[MajorDamage]

I just watched The Fly and The Fly 2 on some movie channel the other day! LOL! Those movies are pretty cool, although some things in them don't make alot of sence. What I really wanna see is Tron! I made my MSN name TronAteMyBaby, so now I have to see it! But yeah, Its "The Fly Mag"! or "The Jeff Goldblume Mag"(sp?)! or the "Help Meeeeeeee Mag"! Yep! GOOOOOOOO AGD!

ENDO!

[Punisher]

Just wondering....

[udtseal]

Sorry for being naive, and im not flaming at all so please dont take it that way, but what is the benefit of putting cocker pneumatics on an automag? I just dont understand the principle. :confused:

[Punisher]

was to build a gun with the smoothest, shortest trigger available without using batteries or electronics. And honestly, to build something unique. There are tons of neat looking guns out there with anodizing and plating, but not a whole lot of truly unique or inovative. Someone told me after the fact that it'd been done before, but I hadn't seen one or heard anything like it prior to planning my own conversion.
Basically the trigger only actuates the 4-way so it's very smooth, and with a good 4-way like the Shockteck Bomb it can be cut dowm pretty short as well.
With the ANS 4-way like in the pics, the pull was set to 2.25mm and was fairly amazing. The owner swapped over to the Shockteck part and promptly sent me an E-mail that was mostly babble about how happy he was. Seems it cut the pull in half!
The newest version (4 being built right now) runs a smaller LP reg and utilizes the WGP or Eclipse pivot frame for Cockers along with the aforementioned Shockteck 4-way.

Sorry for the novel, it's 5:51am and I haven't been to bed yet.......caffeen is my friend!

[Webmaster]

Although I am sure some people think you just doubled the the chances of the Mag going down and complicated it abit - I think its pretty darn cool. I for one have trouble with traditional mag triggers - I just cant shoot them fast. I put your mod right up there with Brad Nestles Sniper SHO. Its a novelty - but darn cool - and one I would like to try.

[Punisher]

I'd like to change perceptions a bit, from novelty to viable alternative to batteries. There's nothing to go down really as the pneumatics are so simple you'd have to fill the gun with sand t ocause it problems.......but ANY Mag would go down then so......

[a_malfunction]

What would something like that cost?

[Punisher]

The rack basic conversion runs $425 and looks like what't in the pics that have been posted except for the hard airlines that were the only option. You can step up with things like the WGP or Eclipse pivot frames, better pneumatics, hard lines, plating, ano you name it......

[a person]

I dont know why but it would be cool if all the pnuematics were in the grip frame somehow. That would be cool, well at least in my opinion.

[Punisher]

but there's not much room with the ram plonked right in the middle.......

[FooTemps]

I thought that it woulda been a cool idea for in gripframe pneumatics but the gripframe would have to be one hell of a big gripframe...

[Punisher]

Mike Cassady from CCI gave me a design for an LP reg that would be built into an ASA. However most guys are using HPA and that makes it tough though it migh tbe wedged into the front block......but that's pretty busy too.......

[Jonneh]

What happens if you cop a round in the mess of 3-way and hoses at the front of a cocker?

I only ask because everytime i play i always see someone (usually my brother) get hit just under the barrel and wondered if it would stop the gun working.

[Punisher]

I abused the heck outta the test unit, including heaps of gun shots everywhere that I thought there'd be a problem.
Short of throwing it down on the pavement in a temper tantrum, it's pretty solid.

The 'mess of hoses' up front is actually pretty compact. Both of the soft-lines are less than 1" long before meeting the hard line, and the one from the LP reg is less than 3".
How many cocker's have you seen running exposed? It's been so long since I've seen a cocker lose a line, and the last time it was because the newby that owned it had the LP pressure cranked so high it was "slip or blow".

[Jonneh]

Intriguing!
You Truely are the master of cockers! (possibly :D)

I present to you my old, but vaguely amusing cartoon!

Jonnys Cocker Cartoon! (http://www.extreme.mcmail.com/misc/Cocker.swf)

[Punisher]

I think I met that guy last weekend on the field!

[SIGSays]

does it use a cocker frame and does it still have a sear??

[Punisher]

Yes it uses a Cocker frame, and it still has the sear.

[Webmaster]

Punisher - unfortunately there are two things that will keep it more of a novelty -

Price
and the time it takes to make one.

Unless you can develop a kit that any halfway decent airsmith can install with minimal fuss, then anyone wanting one will have to come to you. This will mean a wait, as they cant just slap some parts in over the weekend.

And since the price of the conversion and a mag means that most users will just opt for a different gun to get the results they want.

Dont get me wrong, its still a cool mod and if it works reliably like stuff other airsmiths have made a name with (the sniper sho, palmers stuff, sam tussing) then you will have a market of people who want something different and unique.

good luck with it - if I had extra money lying around I would probably throw some at you - but I have a wedding to pay for!

[Punisher]

WEDDING??????
Hehehehe.....no worries. I agree that it's a bit of a job to do, but there's nothing to say that I couldn't get everything here and prepair it as a bolt on. The reality is that I've built 3 complete units and am in the process of building 5 more. I learn a little trick on each one that makes the next go faster. After 4 or five more I'll feel pretty good about doing it in kit form.
I've been asked about kits for various mods that I've done, from electro conversion to my NanoCocker(Pgp-semi), but usually they entail a bit more work that the average guy would be willing, much less able to do.
Who knows what the future hold, eh?
Best of luck with the upcoming nuptuals!

[Webmaster]

Well if you can get it where you can have a decent turn around - great!

But your average player doesnt have money to just shell out for something different. Dont like the mag trigger? Then they will shell out money for a bushmaster or shocker.

You and I understand the value of custom guns - such as a carter comp. And I am sure many of your customers appriciate your work. The problem is if you want to make this mainstream making it a cheap and easy upgrade with clear benifits. If you can streamline the process to say $200, then I could see this as a more common mod, as long as the users see clear benifits - in this case no short stroking.

[Punisher]

Thanks for the input.

[PAINTBALLA01]

thats a cool gun but it looks kind of weird

[Punisher]

It's certainly not for everyone, that's for sure.

[MUNKYMASTA]

i think the cocker/mag is a great idea. with a trigger pull of less than 3 mm with the right pnue's, u cant go wrong. I am seriously thinking of buying a kit for my mag. It sounds reliable, it just is a bit expensive. I mean, you'd have to add a cocker trigger frame to it, and you'd have to do some milling to, right. correct me if im wrong please. i see that you were running a reg/ex chamber on the mag, i just want to know if that is a must too. i,d like to learn more about this if i am to get a kit. i wuz thinking of just geting another stock mag, pick one up for cheap, then put the kit on it. or just put it on my nice mag now. i dont no if its a good idea though, cuz not many people no about it yet.
thanx
joe
team snuffed
email me if have any comments or anything to say, or just post here.
thanx

[Punisher]

MunkyMasta:
Glad you like it. As I said, it's certainly not for everyone.
Yes, it requires a cocker 45 frame and there is some milling involved not only in the frame, but the front block as well.
What you see up front is just a gas thru. If you're serious about getting this setup, you'll definitely want to go HPA if you haven't already.
Whether it's a good idea or not is up to you, it has to be good for you.

[PaInTbALL zAcH]

that thing is tight! :D

[Punisher]

thanks, glad you like it! :D

[MicroB]

You say on your web page that it works better with an RT vavle. My questions are: Is It still Reactive? How efficient is it on HPA Since its pneumatic and not electro? Can the conversion be done to Micromag's ?

Thx, B

PS I think Its Cool :D

[mykroft]

It wouldn't be reactive, as the sear is mechanically isolated from the trigger. the advantage would be the ROF sans shootdown, which is 26+bps on a retro versus 11-12 on a stock valve.

[Cha0tic]

hey punisher, i think webbie needs a wedding present. any ideas?

[slushee]

can't wait to get my 'fly' mag!! Just waiting for an email from punisher ..

[Punisher]

Hey slushee......didja ever get that response? I've had a couple bad ISP service days here recently.......

[Webmaster]

Hey Punisher...

If you do make this mod to be more streamlined and common, let me know. I can do a review on it for APG for you.

I am testing Brads Sniper SHO this weekend!

[Punisher]

You have mail......