The rain of terror continues..... PMI falls victim to SP

[ProX9]

from P8ntballer.com

Smart Parts patents hit PMI
Smart Parts, Inc. (“Smart Parts”) and Pursuit Marketing, Inc. (“PMI”) today announced the signing of a Settlement Agreement resolving a dispute with respect to Smart Parts’ electronic Paintball gun patents.

Although the precise terms of the agreement are confidential, PMI has agreed to pay Smart Parts an undisclosed amount of money to forego litigation over PMI’s proposed PIMP kits and Paintball markers.

PMI only acknowledged the validity and enforceability of certain claims of Smart Parts’ patents as they are applied to Paintball markers that use an electro-pneumatic valve to operate a bolt assembly, and has agreed that, as long as Smart Parts is the sole and exclusive owner of this technology, it will not engage in future production of markers that use an electro-pneumatic valve to operate a bolt assembly unless it first obtains a valid license from Smart Parts.

[WARPED1]

Another smart company! Along with the likes of NPS and DYE!

[spantol]

That sucks, but who didn't see it coming? The PIMP kit was essentially a dare to SP to come after them.

[SlipknotX556]

Dosent SP know, that what they are doing is bad for business? They countinue to victimize companys and with every company, they victimize people are turning away from SP products. Hopefully one day they will suffur from what they are doing to other companys.

[jonmcfatty]

does anybody know when these patents run out. I have a feeling smart parts is going to be in some deep **** when they do.

[PissedGodzilla]

I thought Evil (PMI) would have put up a better fight considering all the BS they like to spread on the evil website about how they are all bad and stuff.. Another good company down the drain... BUY YOUR ELECTROS WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!!!


Does this mean the pimp gun is being discontinued?


:shooting: SP

[teufelhunden]

Another smart company! Along with the likes of NPS and DYE!


Yep.

Pissed, it doesn't matter how big and bad Evil is on its website, they aren't their own entity. PMI calls the Evil shots, and they called this one.

[tony3]

Dosent SP know, that what they are doing is bad for business? They countinue to victimize companys and with every company, they victimize people are turning away from SP products. Hopefully one day they will suffur from what they are doing to other companys.

They will never suffer. The amount of people that really know what is going on is very small. Whenever I go to the field and SP comes up in a convo, I can't believe all the BS I hear. SP has a well marketed, nice electro in the 400 dollar range, they will never see a downfall in buisness unless something major happens.

[WARPED1]

I thought the Pimp kit was just an Impulse body kit?

[teufelhunden]

It's most of the parts for an imp-like gun, I think. You can buy it fully assembled though.

And Tony's right about SP never suffering. Online ballers may know about the lawsuits... but what, there's 100k at PBN, 20k here and 30k at PBR... 150k ballers know. That's a reallllllly small percent of paintball.

[spantol]

I thought--and someone correct me if I'm wrong--that it's a bit more than that. The kit was to include the body, the frame, the board, the eyes, the reg, etc. IIRC, just about everything but the Ram, which is how they were justifying spinning it as an "Upgrade Kit."

It smacked of Contributory Infringement, and frankly I'm surprised that it took as long as it did for SP to step in.




I thought the Pimp kit was just an Impulse body kit?

[hAppy]

Dosent SP know, that what they are doing is bad for business? They countinue to victimize companys and with every company, they victimize people are turning away from SP products. Hopefully one day they will suffur from what they are doing to other companys.
no they do not know. the workers and officials of the company are just everyday people like our parents. they think they're doing the right thing.
OR
they know they are losing business, and this is the only way to go. but either way doesn't make them evil or anything.

[Head knight of Ni]

but either way doesn't make them evil or anything.

but it does make them :cuss:0's

[Duke Henry]

The PIMP is a full gun. PMI/Evil just released about 12 out, and my sponsor picked up one for my teammate. In fact, it was due in today.

It is basically an Impulse, but faster (according to the head honchos at PMI). We'll see this weekend if it is "DM4 Fast" though...

[GT]

it will not engage in future production of markers that use an electro-pneumatic valve to operate a bolt assembly unless it first obtains a valid license from Smart Parts.

that is the scary part. Buy your electros now!

[Gunga]

Uh...that's reign, not rain. :p

reign n.

1. Exercise of sovereign power, as by a monarch.
2. The period during which a monarch rules.
3. Dominance or widespread influence: the reign of reason.

not

rain n.

1.
1. Water condensed from atmospheric vapor and falling in drops.
2. A fall of such water; a rainstorm.
3. The descent of such water.
4. Rainy weather.
5. rains A rainy season.
2. A heavy or abundant fall: a rain of fluffy cottonwood seeds; a rain of insults.

[Skoad]

Dosent SP know, that what they are doing is bad for business? They countinue to victimize companys and with every company, they victimize people are turning away from SP products. Hopefully one day they will suffur from what they are doing to other companys.


Bad for business? They are getting free money!

[hAppy]

but it does make them :cuss:0's
i agree, but thats business for ya

[lopxtc]

Quite to opposite in my area ... you may see people saying they wont buy SP stuff again, but it doesnt happen much.

When I was in Montreal a ton of people were shooting SP gear and looking to get SP gear ... around my area I see more and more shockers popping up and always more Impulses (thanks to their price.

I love my SP gear (freak, shocker, etc) and love how I can get SP gear really cheap now from people who dont want to support SP's even though they already bought the gear and gave them the money.

Hell the average rec baller in my area doesnt follow the law suit, and most could care less about it ...

And like they say any advertising is good advertising. I dont see this hurting them at all ...

Aaron



Dosent SP know, that what they are doing is bad for business? They countinue to victimize companys and with every company, they victimize people are turning away from SP products. Hopefully one day they will suffur from what they are doing to other companys.

[vonort]

Sounds like extortion to me. Pay us X # of $$$ or we sue. Hopefully the FTC will get involved at some point. Then we will see if it hurts SP or not. Not like the Gardners haven't been involved in patent fraud before. Hope to see them bankrupt in a few years with the feds knocking down the door.. Then I'll be :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

[68magOwner]

the PIMP kit initially was just an imp body kit where you just installed your own ram assembly, but then they decided to screw that and market it as a complete marker

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Another smart company! Along with the likes of NPS and DYE!

if you actually think either of those companies actually paid Smart Parts a dime for their agreements I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you...

[logamus]

necessity is the mother of invention. if the sp lawsuit really does stifle the electro, then something else will pop up. sometimes it takes something drastic like the lawsuit to shift the brains into gear.

how many people here own a betamax player? how many own a vhs player? in 10 years we might be sitting around giggling about a time when people actually had to put 9v batteries in their guns to play.

[teufelhunden]

Sounds like extortion to me. Pay us X # of $$$ or we sue. Hopefully the FTC will get involved at some point. Then we will see if it hurts SP or not. Not like the Gardners haven't been involved in patent fraud before. Hope to see them bankrupt in a few years with the feds knocking down the door.. Then I'll be :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:


Um, negative. It's a licensing agreement. The company, PMI in this case, buys a license to make a product which falls under SP's patent.

Now, learn what those big words mean or stick to little ones.

[Pickle]

All this does is add another company to my list to not buy from. PMI.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

How can they say this also effects the Pimp Kit? It's a kit, not a whole gun. I read with some other Pimp Kit info, that Evil made it as a kit to get around Sp's patent. Ahh this is just getting crazy.

[teufelhunden]

I think they're selling it as a whole gun.. at least that's what I'm led to believe by EPBO..

[Target Practice]

SP has a well marketed, nice electro in the 400 dollar range, they will never see a downfall in buisness unless something major happens.

Well, it looks like we are just going to have to blow up the Corporate Headquarters then. WHO'S WITH ME?!

:ninja: :shooting: :ninja: :shooting:

[TeamNausea]

All this does is add another company to my list to not buy from. PMI.
Yeah good for you...But it would take probably even more than 3/4 of all pballers to boycott them for it to affect them at all

[WARPED1]

I'm surprised they didn't get nailed for the Omen
DB, NPS, DYE, and ICD already signed agreements to continue making electronic guns, hence the DM4 for example.

[Pickle]

True, but I am not going to cave in because of the odds. I can't and won't just follow the mindless hoards :argh:

[BobTheCow]

It's rainin' terror... halleluja it's rainin' terror...

/grammar attack :nono:

[spantol]

Pop the phrase "Contributory Patent Infringement" into Google.


How can they say this also effects the Pimp Kit? It's a kit, not a whole gun. I read with some other Pimp Kit info, that Evil made it as a kit to get around Sp's patent. Ahh this is just getting crazy.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I'm surprised they didn't get nailed for the Omen

I'm sure they were. But maybe they mentioned the Pimp instead of Omen is b/c it is their higher end or something.

[ProX9]

People who attack grammar in the middle of summer should shoot themselves for lack of anything better to do.

[GT]

if you actually think either of those companies actually paid Smart Parts a dime for their agreements I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you...


yes actually they do. I cant remember who posted but if a comapny x sues company y for copyright infringment, they reach an agreement and them lic that agreement with other companies I believe there is a small window in which that lic fee can operate.

The problem is, if SP could charge one company pennes, dye, and the next millions it would have a huge effect on our small market.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

yes actually they do. I cant remember who posted but if a comapny x sues company y for copyright infringment, they reach an agreement and them lic that agreement with other companies I believe there is a small window in which that lic fee can operate.

The problem is, if SP could charge one company pennes, dye, and the next millions it would have a huge effect on our small market.

what the heck are you trying to say? i can bet you money both Dye and NPS never paid SP one red cent for their agreements...cross-licensing of patents..or threatening to drop SP from your stores does not involve paying SP money...do your research next time before saying something you know nothing about..

[cphilip]

what the heck are you trying to say?


When you figure him out splain it to me Dan.... ;)

[DiRTyBuNNy]

When you figure him out splain it to me Dan.... ;)

will do, Boss.

[TeamNausea]

DB- would you explain to me how they didnt pay any? Im asking seriously not trying to say your wrong or anything.. I thought SP got money to allow them to sell the electro :confused:

[cphilip]

DB- would you explain to me how they didnt pay any? Im asking seriously not trying to say your wrong or anything.. I thought SP got money to allow them to sell the electro :confused:


Maybe they paid a Dollar.... maybe they promised thier first born... lots of things are done that way. Thats can be a reason they will not disclose the terms. It may be more for SP's not wanting anyone to know how cheap they settling to get full control and lend credence to thier position. They may be making it so sweet everyone rolling over. They may want pennies per marker in the end. They may just NEED pennies per marker to be rich. Who knows....

[GT]

do your research next time before saying something you know nothing about..


Everytime I read one of your post you make it sound as if you know everything that is going on in the pb world. Why dont YOU explain to ME how it is going down with some facts rather than jaded conjecture.

BTW,
where the hell has any real research been done on this specific subject. All I here is the pb world is going to hell in a handbasket and intellegent know it alls, yes thats you, sit on the sidelines with your hands in your pockets. I will be awaiting some real info on this issue and not he said she said bs.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Everytime I read one of your post you make it sound as if you know everything that is going on in the pb world. Why dont YOU explain to ME how it is going down with some facts rather than jaded conjecture.

maybe I sound that way because i do know what's going on although I don't know anymore than anyone else who DOES THEIR research. You can find the answer if you look for it.

as for how I know...Dave DeHaan (Youngblood to the rest of you) has said everything but confirming the fact that Dye's SP licensing was tied to Dye's ownership of the Matrix patents...Wasn't it strange that SP couldn't get the shocker to work until they went to a spool valve design and Dye supposedly rolls over not long after...hhmm..i wonder...doesn't take a rocket scientist...

[GT]

maybe I sound that way because i do know what's going on although I don't know anymore than anyone else who DOES THEIR research. You can find the answer if you look for it.

...doesn't take a rocket scientist...
Still confused about the research, Links? I am still not seeing it. The spool valve design has been around awhile and to be honest I have no idea why it even pertains to the shocker/matrix connection. Just because two events take place at once does not mean there is causality, or even a relationship in fact that is why we use static's.

To be perfectly honest I think this whole fiasco has little to do with money and more to do with control. Sp has been deemed the inventor of these patents therefore they are allowed to dole out lic.'s for "gun making" activities.

This does two things
1. Gives them a heads up on what is coming out
2. Allows them to ride on the back of others hard works, Heck you wont get a lic. unless you fork over X technology.

Although #2 seems plausible I don’t that that is what happened to dye. Look we can play these games all night but until someone actually pony’s up and states what’s really going on, and illicit some action, in the end all we are doing is wasting bandwidth. In reality all we are doing is making wild hair guesses at what is really going on. It could be much more benign, lets be honest pb CEO’s are not typical actors in a court and may be over sensitive to the issue. Or SP could be up to some very sinister deeds, *que evil music.

So final note, lets post some facts of the case, which BTW have not happened since the suits broke two years ago, and do something about it, or we can do nothing.

Ball is in your court DB, I have some newb posts to reply too.

[SlartyBartFast]

Maybe they paid a Dollar.... maybe they promised thier first born... lots of things are done that way. Thats can be a reason they will not disclose the terms. It may be more for SP's not wanting anyone to know how cheap they settling to get full control and lend credence to thier position. They may be making it so sweet everyone rolling over. They may want pennies per marker in the end. They may just NEED pennies per marker to be rich. Who knows....

That's the second nastiest thing about the legal system (the first is how easy it is to sue/action someone with impunity). It's probably the easiest to fix too.

Once a court action is publicly taken, ALL proceedings and outcomes should be made public. That should include all threats/offers made before the court action was taken.

[vonort]

license agreement, extortion same thing in this case. You call it what you want. I'll call it what i want. To me its EXTORTION. And yes I know what the big words mean little man.

[Lohman446]

I think you will find DB is right on this one, and it is cnjecture as noone in the industry is talking... this SP thing has been coming, and people have been ducking.

Dye owns the spool valve theory, no doubt on that one or the rights to it or whatever. The Shocker needs it - I think you will find there is a pretty good agreement between Dye and SP and it likely involved very little money changing hands.

SP needs NPS to distribute, maybe not needs but its handy to have them. I would bet there is a simple agreement there as well.

I also recall TK mentioning at one point offering to help with the Shocker in exchange for a liscensing agreeemtn and being turned down - I think that SP got a lot of "nice" deals out of it that involved little money.

[AGD]

LOL!! LMFAO!! PMI thought it would be years before it went through court and got around to them, they never took it seriously.

And the SP machine marches on! Not many peeps left...

AGD

[Meph]

People whine and cry about getting paintball in the "mainstream" as if that's an actual goal to accomplish or something, like it has any real meaning. Suddenly it approaches that territory.

Yet then people whine and cry when they failed to realize the territory that came with the mainstream popularity.



Never ceases to amaze me w/ some people. Can't have best of both worlds, and now it's too late to turn back. Oh well.

[atm743]

you know jest for the heck of it i would love to see smarts parts crash!! :D jest see them on the news when the news says " smart parts a major paintball company crashed"!! and if it did mabey agd will start making more x mags!!

[teufelhunden]

license agreement, extortion same thing in this case. You call it what you want. I'll call it what i want. To me its EXTORTION. And yes I know what the big words mean little man.


I'll call it what it is, you call it your fairy tale thing, mmk?

[kruger]

what most here are not seeing is that it doesnt matter if smart parts goes out of business or not, the patents will still belong to somebody and they will enforce the patents untill they run out. If I am not mistaken, they run about 17 years before they are not valid. So, for the duration of the patent life, somebody will be collecting money off of every electro gun covered by the patent.. It just happents to be Smart Parts, could just as easily be Dirk Diggler.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

And the SP machine marches on! Not many peeps left...

AGD

**Butthead voice** uuhhh..hhhuuuhhh...Tom said peeps...

[vonort]

I'll call it what it is, you call it your fairy tale thing, mmk?


You can stay in denial land all you want. What I know is if you color and apple orange its still an apple. If you wrap extortion into a "licensing agreement" its still EXTORTION.

[ß?µ£ §mµ®ƒ]

Does anyone think this is ever going to end until they win?

[RapidTransit]

US Patents don't apply in the UK ;) Thats why AGD Europe Division is still selling E's and X Mags

[TeamNausea]

^ahhh Shut Up

[teufelhunden]

You can stay in denial land all you want. What I know is if you color and apple orange its still an apple. If you wrap extortion into a "licensing agreement" its still EXTORTION.


Right. Extortion is me holding a gun to your head saying I'm gonna paint the walls with your brain if you don't sign. This is not that.

[Brophog]

No, that's only one interpretation of the word. SP could be extorting, but we do not have enough evidence to prove it either way.

Extortion:


The act or an instance of extorting.
Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage.
An excessive or exorbitant charge.
Something extorted.

[ronin]

well its going main stream w /companys like k2 getting in the picture sp is trying to protect its investments ***** and complain all you want but hay thats how the business world works. it may suck for a little while but this will spur "innovation" other techo-geeks will find new ways of doing the same stuff and the industry will grow because of it look at the deadlywind.