Mechanical ACE

[Lohman446]

Ok.. I understand that mechanical ACE as it exists today cannot exist. I also understand and admit that LX is not 100% failsafe, and a lot of people would like a secondary system. Others say its unneeded redundancy.

My limited understanding of ACE is that the eye(s) detect the paintall - either due to break beam or photo eyes. In turn they send a signal to the board, which given a trigger pull allows the marker to fire. At least that is the base concept.

I was thinking about this - and the Angel Sensei system. The idea of the system is to "weigh" a paintball to find the presence of one.

Can I push further... what if we had a "floating" chamber, that when not engaged did not allow the bolt to enter it (sits too high)... setting LX to reset early in its travel and never come near the falling ball. The weight of the ball then pushes it into place... and allows the bolt to move forward and fire it. Ok, I can already see this may be prone to dirt and foreign particles, but continue with me on the brainstorm and work out the technical details later. So is 3 grams not enough - then make it only work with a forcefeed system (warp or HALO or Q) so that it has some more force to push it downward.

Bolt............Chamber not enganged (the bolt being the >>>>>)
...............________________

...............________________
>>>>>>>


Bolt...........Chamber engaged
................__________________
>>>>>>>>
...............___________________

Am I nuts? Am I asking for something not worht the effort to make? I have seen a lot of peopel ask for another form of ACE on mechanical mags... is this beyond possible?

[ß?µ£ §mµ®ƒ]

reliable or not a second system is not going to save that many balls. you cant save them all, LX 10 already saves a ton

[GT]

Honestly,
lvlX or Halo, really no need for other systems but anyways,

my idea is that you could use a very light rod inside the breech, that blocks hte trigger rod until there is a ball present insde the chamber. essentially "jamming" the tirgger rod until there is something present in the breech or...... just buy a halo and lvlx if you need it...

[JimmyBeam]

hes right, get the paint fed as fast as possible with a halo or a egg. hell i dont even have a levX and i dont chop anymore with my egg

[louie]

A few companies are already producing "anti-chop" bolts that work. I've used a JAM bolt on my last two mech cockers and they work great. You can set a cocker to pinch but nothing beats a JAM bolt. JAM also makes anti-chop bolts for a few other markers. Blind Bolts are also out for the Bushmaster/BKO but I don't know who makes them (I think OTB).

I seriously think, the simplest solution to stopping chops is the best solution. Making something more complex would also leave you with more complex problems when things break (and they usually do). Your idea works in theory but it seems impractical. Some paintballs have thicker shells, more fills, more air, etc. I don't know if the weight difference would be significant enough to throw off the system you have in mind. Limiting the marker to force feed hoppers would limit the amount of people that can use them. I've always thought it was over kill using a HALO on a mech marker.

[p8nt_junkie]

I agree with louie on this one, KISS is the motto that allows us to PLAY paintball and have FUN! making a gun too complex just to keep you from chopping paintballs also limits you from firing paintballs, don't you think? LVLX is a great system, JAM bolts are great too; nice and simple. Try tuning the LVLX with different spacers and really USE A HALO! They're from Texas! They will get the balls into the breech simple as that.

[rx2]

While I have not chopped a ball in a couple of years, and like keeping my gear as simple as possible so there is less to go wrong, there are those who still complain about the spent air from a bolt system like level 10. They argue that it is one more backward step in Mag efficiency. However, I still don't think they number enough to justify complicating things. Furthermore, if those people don't use Mags because of that, I don't think adding a secondary system to stop the bolt would entice them to any appreciable degree. Unless it could be done very simply, and added a nominal sum to the overall price of a marker, it just wouldn't be worth it.

[tyrion2323]

CAM Feed.
100% chop-free.

[Torbo]

I've always thought it was over kill using a HALO on a mech marker.

in terms of speed, yes. But however, having the paint force fed is nice. If youre running and shooting, and using a rev, the paint tends to bounce up out of the chamber. If youre using a halo, the paint is always there.

[Enemy]

i hate to say it but a prorperly tuned lvl 10 does eliminate 100% of chops especially for me my only breakage would occur as the lvl 10 kicked but pinched instead of stopped sending the ball down the barrel then in rapid fire the next ball would catch the first and blam mess but i only had one go in the barrel the rest were just outside the barrel so i didnt really care cuz i still shot straight!!! having ace on my new xmag is nice because i dont wanna mess with the lvl 10 too much like i had to on my classic but when i do get around to tunning it down odds are i wont use the ace as it can lag the system and as we all know lag is bad!!!

[GoatBoy]

I've thought about this myself as well, and came up with something similar to what gtrsi said.

Actually what I thought about was something like a lever, similar to the one on the omen, but sitting on the bottom of the chamber which pressed down on said "blocking pin" whenever a ball was in the breech. Ball would drop into the breech, land on the lever, which would push the pin down and allow the trigger to move.

Tuning things to work well would be a pain. The return force would need to be strong enough to get back into position after the bolt came back to rest, yet soft enough for one single ball to be able to overcome it. Maybe there would be a way to get the bolt to help reset the device on its way back or something.

I think that's where the basic problem lies really... "fast enough to keep up with you, but soft enough to reliably detect one single ball"





It's very tricky to "properly" tune a level 10. You've got tiny shims, o-ring carriers... but only three spring strengths. And spring tension can change over time. It's great, but most of the time I don't feel like dealing with it and just tune it into a conservative operating zone.

[hitech]

Am I nuts?

No. I think it is a very interesting idea. It would probably be far too expensive to make one that is realiable, but it is a clever idea none the less. :D

[Lohman446]

It's very tricky to "properly" tune a level 10. You've got tiny shims, o-ring carriers... but only three spring strengths. And spring tension can change over time. It's great, but most of the time I don't feel like dealing with it and just tune it into a conservative operating zone.

Agreed my level 10 sits tuned roughly - its not the chops that bug me its the LX kicking a ball down teh barrel but not out and the next one blowing through it - I shoot a .690 barrel to avoid this as much as possible but it still happens, and now Im just kind of trying to think of something else. Well th floating chamber (or jam pin suggested above) might be hard to get right the first time... it would be right once set, little adjustment needed I would think.

[Oh_Davey]

Couldn't you just have it so instead of the weight of one ball to trigger it, make it the weight of the ball stack to trigger it? That would make it less picky to tune.

[Voloo]

i havent read completely through all the posts but from what i see this is an awsome idea... with the new deadlywind hAir trigger (otherwiese known as the "converter" :P) people with mech mags will have their ROF shooting up... maybe even to a point where an egg cant keep up... assuming the egg feeds 17 bps the hair trigger can (theoreticaly) go up to 20 this will out shoot the egg... this idea (if made cheaply enough) will work well because people wont have to tune the lvl 10 perfectly any more... Thats just my $.02 though...

[GoatBoy]

Couldn't you just have it so instead of the weight of one ball to trigger it, make it the weight of the ball stack to trigger it? That would make it less picky to tune.

When you have the weight of the ball stack on it, that's when you need it the least...