Tom: Just had an Idea Re: SuperBolts

[JanStah]

Hi Tom,

I remember reading that you put the SuperBolt project on hold due to the fact that the delrin wore out too fast. Well, I've been thinking and I've come up with a possible solution that may work and also make you some more money in the long term.

Here it is:

Sell the bolt as a 2-peice kit; a metal back with a removable delrin sleeve. Include a few replacement sleeves with the bolt-back.

Then sell the replacement sleeves separately in a 3-pack kit similar to the Mag Spares kit.

You need to make it clear on the packaging that these sleeves are SUPPOSED to wear out and that replacement sleeve kits (with 3 or so sleeves in) can be bought separately.

Benefits:
Customers get the bolt they want.
You get the purchase price
You get the money for the bolt-tip replacements.

I expect that a normal user will order at least 1 extra sleeve kit per year. Now lets pretend that a sleeve kit with 3 sleeves costs $20. I dont know how much it'd cost to manufacture them, but I'm guessing it's a lot less than £5 for 3 that leaves $15 for packing and profit.

Lets pretend you sell 20000 superbolts in a year. Each of those buyers then buys an additional sleeve kit each year.

Thats 20000*$15 = $300 000 of extra profit EACH YEAR.

With repeat business like that, you can afford to let the steel bolt-back sell much cheaper, which will please the casual mag-owning recball crowd.

Am I making any sense?

Jan

[AGD]

thats exactly what we are going to do. Boy do I wish your numbers were right. We expect to sell less than a thousand per year.

AGD

[slayer]

you will still make the steel bolts right?

[BartManSr]

I can't wait until they hit the market.

I hope they'll fit the original RT. At least we would have one up grade coming.

[FeelTheRT]

do they have to be delrin? I meen the half part can be hard spong/foamie type stuff. That would be extremely light and not wear out since it's still abit soft. They certainly will reduce the wait and recoil.

[Ball Buster]

I think the fesiblity of your idea requires a few questions to be answered.. Mainly 1 major question.. How often is the tube going to wear out?? More than 2 a year? If so, that's too many.. If people knew they're going to have to CONTINUEALLY be dropping $20 bucks into their bolt, then more than likely they're going to pick a "drop it and forget it bolt" or atleast people who don't live under a money tree will..

Selling an item that intentionally will wear out to sell replacement parts is not the best business idea, especially in a field where replacements that will not do the same thing could be had.. I'd love to have the superbolt.. but if it wore out and had to be replaced on a regular basis I would stick with what I had, or a better alternative.

I can see how it would sound like a good idea, but i think it just wouldn't work.. Unless maybe you could gurantee it would work better than stock and the replacements didn't wear out too often and were CHEAP to replace.. IE a pack of 3 for $5.00..

Let's say it has to be replaced every 1000 shots or ever 2000... ok.. that's like.. every weekend for me and there's no way I'm going to buy a bolt for XX.XX dollars and then have to drop $80.00 a month to play with it.. See what I'm saying??

[slayer]

the super bolts are supposed to just about eliminate recoil. When I shoot an e-mag the recoil is the only movement that I feel since I only have to tap the trigger to fire it, there are no other movements.

[BlackVCG]

Delrin bolts in testing are sometimes wearing out as soon as 10,000 cycles. They aren't going to be something you'll replace after every tournament.

[JanStah]

Thanks for replying Tom; I still think you'll sell more than 1k a year; maybe not 20k, but if you price it low enough, it'll appeal to the mass-market of ex-tippman/spyder owning mag-people.

If they're cheap enough to make, it might be worth bundling them with the new RTs, Emags or Extremes. That'll mean you have a steady flow of replacements from the start.

As for the thing wearing out; as long as I can get at least 5-6 cases of paint thru it before it dies, I'm happy.

10000cycles / 2000 rounds per case = 5 cases before it wears out.

Cheers.

Jan.

[Jonneh]

Originally posted by JanStah
Thanks for replying Tom; I still think you'll sell more than 1k a year; maybe not 20k, but if you price it low enough, it'll appeal to the mass-market of ex-tippman/spyder owning mag-people.

Blah Blah Blah

10000cycles / 2000 rounds per case = 5 cases before it wears out.

Cheers.

Jan.

You'll have to get rid of that pesky angel first :D

Shipping them out with the new bolt is an good idea, if not a little sneaky. Or ship it with both and give them a choice?

[Puckz]

5 cases of paint is less than a month easily for me. However I'm still gonna get one for the no recoil. And I'll replace it probably more than needed if I like it. If it gets too expensive I'll start throwing the standard bolt in for practice :)

[Ni cD]

I'll probably get one of these new bolt kits for my future E-Mag (God I love that gun) when they come out.

[Dragoon]

The only 2 things I'd like to see different with my Emag, is the weight, and the recoil.

I'd spend the money needed to replace a delrin sleeve every 10,000 shots if it reduced the recoil.

As for the weight, I'm starting to give the SFL some serious thought. I'm just worried about the cocker barrels fitting properly, and wondering what the trap-door emag will be like (aka ULEmag).
:rolleyes:

[MicroB]

I too would replace the delrin sleeve every 10,000 shots to limit recoil. I believe on average the sleeve would last longer than 10,000 shots. Hey Tom why don't you select a few AO' ers to test a few dozen? or the first run I know I'd pay for one to test. I'd like to put one through its paces in my E-mag.:D

[BartManSr]

Count me in, I'll pay. I could use one in my orginal RT.

[Phatty B]

i think you should use the steel back, and say several possible fronts ex: aluminum, titanium, delrin, or possibly even a type of glass bolt. These would all reduce weight, but for different prices you could have different durabilities, and different weights. P.S. maybe not the glass front but it may be possible. POst replies.

[zads27]

Hey Tom, maybe you can give out a retail price estimate, or estimates, and see what everyone is willing to pay for these things.

Personally, I'm more financially strained (poor college student), but I really want that reduced recoil. I think I would keep my stock bolt for rec play and such, then switch over to the delrin for some serious tourny play. Perhaps if the sleeves last long enough/are cheap enough, I will use the delrin bolt for both rec and tourny play.

What happens when these wear out anyway? Reduced efficiency I assume, anything else? I'm not sure how the delrin is made, but perhaps make some kind of indicator color imbedded at some depth in the delrin to show when it needs a replacement?
How do you change the delrin sleeves?

Definately put the superbolt as standard in the ULEmags, or at very least, make it an option.

[st6212]

Weren't AGD looking at using an aluminium sleeve as opposed to Delrin?

I suppose the aluminium option didn't pan out like they hoped.

[braaatz]

I would suspect that alum. would wear out faster than delrin even if annodized. Delrin essentially is self lubricating, where as alum. would probably gall up
the inside of the barrel.

[Phatty B]

I dont see how aluminum would scratch up the barrel, the steel used now does not. How would it change at all. And also i didnt think that aluminum would wear as fast, you dont have to keep the auotmag bolt lubricated, that i know of?

[braaatz]

Phatty B, I would think the alum. would be sratched
by the barrel not the other way around.What I ment by
galling up the barrel, is if alum. is rubbed against
a harder material hard or long enough , the alum.
will start to weld little bits to the other material.
I'm not saying this WOULD happen, but its not uncommon
with alum in this type of application.