We are getting screwed.

[tzustratagy]

Listen up guys. I love my as much as the next guy, but we have to realize that the direction AGD is taking with thier markers is disturbing. First the Xmag and Emag go, then the TAC ONE is introduced, then a sydarm...why? I bought a mag because I was tired of playing GI Joe in the woods. Now it seems that we are stuck playing with mechanicals. And the deadly wind frame may be fast, but still mech, so forget great features like adjustability. Whats going on? Is AGD dropping speedball in favor of childish army man games?

[WickeDKlowN]

Sadley...Yes. They decided that they can't compete with the touney scene so they're going more towarde Scenario/Rec players :(

[Empyreal Rogue]

AGD has, for the most part, given up on the Tournament scene for now. TK wants to see what happens with the Smart Parts issue before they go on. I don't know what the update is but I know they were working on a new design being released on late 2005 or early 2006. The new design would be an electric marker much like the X-Mag, but better. Or something. I dunno.

But AGD is still working on the E-Mag and X-Mag software and that, more or less, controls how fast the marker shoots. Both markers are more than capable of very high ROF but because of the software they're capped.

[magman#1]

sorry dude i would suggest not getting a 4 year old design like that if you're looking to be a high level tournament player even if they were still made. there's nothing wrong with more realistic paintball play, and if you want to bash it then go join pbnation. agd isn't a tourney company if you haven't noticed(by the amount of players using mags in tourneys). don't whine to hummer about how you're getting screwed on fuel economy, that's not what they're about.

[trevorjk]

AGD has, for the most part, given up on the Tournament scene for now. TK wants to see what happens with the Smart Parts issue before they go on. I don't know what the update is but I know they were working on a new design being released on late 2005 or early 2006. The new design would be an electric marker much like the X-Mag, but better. Or something. I dunno.

But AGD is still working on the E-Mag and X-Mag software and that, more or less, controls how fast the marker shoots. Both markers are more than capable of very high ROF but because of the software they're capped.


ive heard of a new lcd marker as early as next fall... but there just rumors... and even if the Hair trigger is a mech frame its still easily walkable and fast as all hell. so whats the point about it being mechanical

*only quoted you to connect the rumor i heard... all other things meant towards thread starter*

[Blazestorm]

Where's the Smart-parts office... and how do you go about making plastic explosives...?

I have an idea... I'm not saying it's legal... but it's good stuff... :ninja:

[SlipknotX556]

AGD is doing the smart thing, staying away from the tourny scene. With Smart Parts sueing everyone, its really the right thing to do. Hopefully one day this whole thing with smart parts will end, AGD can return with some awesome new electro marker, better looking and better performing then the X mag.

But just wait for the Hair trigger to come out, then you will be all happy.

[minimag03]

TK knows what he is doing. The hAir trigger as far as I know has no max ROF, do it is just as good as and e-mag.

minimag03
PS: would anyone complain if we did do something to the SP office :D

Hey, I found SP's headquarters:
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
[P] 800.992.2147
[F] 724.539.2298

Monday-Friday
10am to 6pm

[Halliday]

....minimag03
PS: would anyone complain if we did do something to the SP office :D

Hey, I found SP's headquarters:
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
[P] 800.992.2147
[F] 724.539.2298

Monday-Friday
10am to 6pm
My parents live a few hours away. Just don't do anything nuclear :tard:

[TheTramp]

Is AGD dropping speedball in favor of childish army man games?

Yah righ, that's just what they're doing. :rolleyes:

Between those "childish army man games" and rec players most of the paintball money lies. God forbid that a company didn't jump on the Dye Tourny bandwagon because of course we know that most players are competing in top level tournaments.

[Evil1]

Hey everyone, careful what you say about SP, you may be sued! :D

[Blazestorm]

I actually work for SP... I swear :ninja:

Actually know, I hope SP gets sued for a copyright infringement and goes backrupt and blows up and died and spontaniously combusts and and and. :p

[RoadDawg]

Listen up guys. I love my as much as the next guy, but we have to realize that the direction AGD is taking with thier markers is disturbing. First the Xmag and Emag go, then the TAC ONE is introduced, then a sydarm...why? I bought a mag because I was tired of playing GI Joe in the woods. Now it seems that we are stuck playing with mechanicals. And the deadly wind frame may be fast, but still mech, so forget great features like adjustability. Whats going on? Is AGD dropping speedball in favor of childish army man games?

First- The Sydarm is an old creation. Nothing new. It's just been ultra rare to find.
2nd- E's and X's were outdated and have their own issues
3rd- Tac One is for scenario players. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
4th- The hair trigger seems to have a small pull and is real quick. Why adjust something that is so rediculously small already.
5th- Scenario is the "up and coming" part of the game known as paintball. I've been interested in this part of it but haven't gotten around to joining one yet.
6th- Speedball, although fun, isn't for everyone. A HUGE part of the market plays rec ball (woodsball) AGD has realized this, and is giving Tippman a run.

[stondroopy]

Well going more towards scenario/woods seems like a pretty good idea.They're maintaing a strong following while getting more people to use there marker in a fun enviroment.scenarios seem to me to be popping up more and more and i would take a mag over a tippman any day.Let the electro herd thin a lil and agd may come back with something that will blow your doors off.simply let the other guys fight among themselves and when the dust settles bring unvale(sp) your new super marker.hehe i still wouldnt mind having a emag though :)

[Wc Keep]

who says mech guns cant compete in tourneys? its all in the indian not the bow and arrow. ill bring it to anyone with my mech mag. heck ill bring it to anyone with a mech classic mag.

so to all you saying agd is leavin the tourney scene i say bring it.

but yeah that is a smart move to go towards scenario play. gay but smart.

[MagAl]

Where's the Smart-parts office... and how do you go about making plastic explosives...?

I have an idea... I'm not saying it's legal... but it's good stuff... :ninja:

Operation Mayhem ;)

[WenULiVeUdiE]

My question is, can they stay away from the tourny scene? With the hAir coming out, how hard will it be from AGD to stay away? When that comes out it will probably be all AGD is focused on for a month or so. And it would probably go over better with tourny players, or at least tourny players would seem to need it more. I'm not saying scenario players dont need it( I play 'em and I need it) But they could probably sell more to a market of tourny players than scenario players. Then again I see more people with mags at scenario than I do at tourny's. I'm having an arguement with myself, I think I'm going insane.

Anyone get what I'm saying?

[GT]

I dont think the problem is with thier guns, its their service. If you are going to offer a product to take the market by storm you dam well better have it in stock! E/x's are more than capable for tourney play. I do think the majority of E/X owners do not know how to adjust thier triggers.

BTW I played x ball just fine with my ult classic, the emag sat in the truck both days.

gt

[AGDlover]

6th- Speedball, although fun, isn't for everyone. A HUGE part of the market plays rec ball (woodsball) AGD has realized this, and is giving Tippman a run.

do you have any idea how low end you made AGD sound


ok you know what guys i can honnestly say that from AGD movement twards woods/snecerio i honestly thing AGD are being woosys and won't accecpt the fact that woods ain't all as great as TK is trying to say it is. and his post bout him trying to get the mag name out of the turny sheen i say push into the tuny and blow everyone away make them stop saying "mags are for ***s" god TK doin **** like this makes me want to dump my mag for a cocker. maby if you watch BO every now and then to see how he does it then maby you could learn something

[Fred]

Havn't you heard?

Mechanical is the new Electro... its all the rage...

and play a big "G.I. Joe" game, you might be suprised how fun they are.

---Fred

[craltal]

Why the tantrums? They made a business decision. It was in their best interest to back away from SP and let all of that crap settle out. They decided they'd rather spend their money on R&D than legal defense.

If you need to rely on an e-frame in order to be able to play, I feel really sorry for you. It only takes 1 ball to eliminate someone.

[cphilip]

Fact is a ton more people play scenario than speed ball. And no one is marketing to them. Its wide open. And so its a money decision. Easy one to make.

And I seen plenty of RT Pro's kick arse in speedball. Its all we using now. Light fast and dependable. You will maybe be outplayed but not outgunned. Like always.... learn the game and quit blaming the marker. Chump! :D

[team unwanted]

Why the tantrums? They made a business decision. It was in their best interest to back away from SP and let all of that crap settle out. They decided they'd rather spend their money on R&D than legal defense.

If you need to rely on an e-frame in order to be able to play, I feel really sorry for you. It only takes 1 ball to eliminate someone.

i do belive that guy is right :ninja:

[Cool fool!]

the hair trigger will put agd in the tourney scene for a while i think...
i will definetely be playin tourney ball with the hair when it comes out! :D :shooting:

[peewee]

AGD's official stance is that its out of the tourny scene , but your crazy if you think that the mag faithful wont be showing up with hair triggers at every tourny that they can. Last night I watched a guy with an RT ULE that ruled over DM4's, cockers and trixies. Standing on the sideline I couldnt tell that "Dogma" from ace's wild was at any type of disadvantage. :shooting:

[eNder159]

Listen up guys. I love my as much as the next guy, but we have to realize that the direction AGD is taking with thier markers is disturbing. First the Xmag and Emag go, then the TAC ONE is introduced, then a sydarm...why? I bought a mag because I was tired of playing GI Joe in the woods. Now it seems that we are stuck playing with mechanicals. And the deadly wind frame may be fast, but still mech, so forget great features like adjustability. Whats going on? Is AGD dropping speedball in favor of childish army man games?



all i can say in response to this statement is this

Tom Kaye > tzustratagy

he's smarter than you ...smarter than about 99% of the people on this forum put together...

so with that said...im pretty sure he knows how to run his own company. and if your complaining about mechanical go buy a hype gun and move to pbnation...

[lawman1380]

all i can say in response to this statement is this

Tom Kaye > tzustratagy

he's smarter than you ...smarter than about 99% of the people on this forum put together...

so with that said...im pretty sure he knows how to run his own company. and if your complaining about mechanical go buy a hype gun and move to pbnation...

The 1% must have been the guy who created the hair trigger. ;)

[TeamNausea]

5th- Scenario is the "up and coming" part of the game known as paintball. I've been interested in this part of it but haven't gotten around to joining one yet.

I do agree that there are a lot maybe most of paintball players exclusivley scenario/woodsball but i dont think when its all said and done it will be even close to the speedball scene since thats whats going to be easier to sell to the public for many reasons.

[paullus99]

Reasons Woodsball/Scenarioball will always be a larger segment of the paintball market -

1) More people can play on a woodsball field than a speedball field.

2) There are a lot of players out there limited to a case of paint or less per day of playing - making speedball cost prohibitive.

3) New players cycling into the sport start with woodsball (for the most part).

4) Inexperienced/new players can't compete with the 15bps electros on speedball courses, get bonus-balled, etc. & get a bad taste in their mouth afterwards.

5) Scenario games are inherently more interesting & social than 10 min speedball games.

6) Large groups (church groups, schools, etc) are better accomodated by woodsfields - & the fun of playing "war" just like when they were young kids.

That's just what I came up with off the top of my head. Think of paintball as a pyramid - with newbies at the bottom & pro-tourney players at the top. As you progess up the sport, there are fewer and fewer people involved at each level (fewer tourney spots, limited # of teams, etc), so AGD's decision to market to the bottom half of the pyramid (representing probably 40 - 50% of the total sport) is a great idea. You market to where the money is - and with all of the high-end electro competition fighting for the other 30% of the market, it leave the door wide open for AGD to step in, compete head-to-head with Tippman & make a heck of a lot more money.

[Miscue]

AGD has, for the most part, given up on the Tournament scene for now. TK wants to see what happens with the Smart Parts issue before they go on. I don't know what the update is but I know they were working on a new design being released on late 2005 or early 2006. The new design would be an electric marker much like the X-Mag, but better. Or something. I dunno.

But AGD is still working on the E-Mag and X-Mag software and that, more or less, controls how fast the marker shoots. Both markers are more than capable of very high ROF but because of the software they're capped.

AGD is not still working on the E-Mag and X-Mag software. The cap for 3.2 is peachy-keen.

[Miscue]

ive heard of a new lcd marker as early as next fall... but there just rumors... and even if the Hair trigger is a mech frame its still easily walkable and fast as all hell. so whats the point about it being mechanical

*only quoted you to connect the rumor i heard... all other things meant towards thread starter*

Urm, what "LCD" marker? Nope, there is nothing like that in the works. That's not a rumor... that's total make-believe non-sense. :p

[MagAl]

That's just what I came up with off the top of my head. Think of paintball as a pyramid - with newbies at the bottom & pro-tourney players at the top. As you progess up the sport, there are fewer and fewer people involved at each level (fewer tourney spots, limited # of teams, etc), so AGD's decision to market to the bottom half of the pyramid (representing probably 40 - 50% of the total sport) is a great idea. You market to where the money is - and with all of the high-end electro competition fighting for the other 30% of the market, it leave the door wide open for AGD to step in, compete head-to-head with Tippman & make a heck of a lot more money.

The problem I see with that is "the bottom half of the pyramid" is comprised of those who would rather spend $130 for a M98c then $450 for a tac-1 and also have to spring for a nitro tank.

[rpm07]

First of let me say I wish AGD did not stop the Emag. Even though it is 4 years old it still is better then 90% of the electros out todayl. As for the RT pro it is a great tourny gun. People have learn how to shot plain and simple. Team Blackcell uses a mix of RT pros, Emags and Xmags and we have no problem in the tourny scene. The problem 90% of the players today is they dont know how to play. Just learn how to snap shot. But to them it is easy to just get to their bunker and lay down 900 balls in a game and hit nothing. These are the same guys that brag that they used 3 cases of paint in a day.

[SlartyBartFast]

I do agree that there are a lot maybe most of paintball players exclusivley scenario/woodsball but i dont think when its all said and done it will be even close to the speedball scene since thats whats going to be easier to sell to the public for many reasons.

I think the difference in attendance between the Monster Game and IAO might just shoot that argument down.

[SlartyBartFast]

The problem I see with that is "the bottom half of the pyramid" is comprised of those who would rather spend $130 for a M98c then $450 for a tac-1 and also have to spring for a nitro tank.

But a small percentage of a large market can be significantly larger than a large percentage of a small market.

[TeamNausea]

I think the difference in attendance between the Monster Game and IAO might just shoot that argument down.
I said when it is all said and done i dont see espn EVER having an exclusive 48 hours scenario game show or anything but i can see them showing a few matches in a 30minute segment. Stuff like that will get people acustomed(sp) to the speedball scene.

[SlartyBartFast]

I said when it is all said and done i dont see espn EVER having an exclusive 48 hours scenario game show or anything but i can see them showing a few matches in a 30minute segment. Stuff like that will get people acustomed(sp) to the speedball scene.

Well, when sales are influenced by TV appearances, it'll be time to concentrate on tournaments again.

But, when's that going to happen?

[TeamNausea]

As soon as i become dictator of the world. ;)
I dunno but i do know SOMEDAY it will happen wich is why in my first post i said that when it was all said and done.

[magmonkey]

" We are getting screwed. "

and smartparts is doing the pushing

if you want to blame some one blame SP

Tom can't take the risk of losing everything in a BS lawsuit over an electro
don't get me wrong I LOVE MY EMAG, it is my favorite marker ever, and just because they are not making anymore dosn't mean that I am going to run out an buy the new gun of the month..... instead I am going to stay right where i am.... blasting people in their big stupid heads with my emag


the best we can hope for if for wdp to win in court and do the right thing..... not try to screw everbody over

[Macpaintballer]

1) I don't think Tom would ever make a move that he didn't feel was a smart one.. he didn't just wake up one day and say "Oooo, let's just stop making E-mags and make scenario markers!"

2) Look at how many people own Tippmans. Now, look at all the crazy scenario people (who outnumber speedball players by a long shot... not everyone in the world has a speedball field close to them.. many people play 'outlaw') and how much money they spend on their tippmans. Many have HPA systems, RT, Flatlines, Drops, Gizmos, Stocks, etc. etc. They put ALOT of money into those things... now, for the same price, you get a pre-assembled reliable monster that's smaller, lighter, faster, more consistant, and with the tac one body, many different options for sights, scopes, flashlights, and whatnot. Would you rather take the Tippy or the Mag?

I think AGD took a very negative thing from SP and turned it into a positive business move.

[tzustratagy]

all i can say in response to this statement is this

Tom Kaye > tzustratagy

he's smarter than you ...smarter than about 99% of the people on this forum put together...

so with that said...im pretty sure he knows how to run his own company. and if your complaining about mechanical go buy a hype gun and move to pbnation...

This dude has to be the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. We make fun of Autococker cults, but you are just like a cultmember.

[Miscue]

This dude has to be the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. We make fun of Autococker cults, but you are just like a cultmember.

Note: This is the sort of post that instigates flaming. Watch it.

Also, I pretty much agree with what he said - it's the truth.

[Blazestorm]

Best part is, I don't think Tom went to college :D

[warbeak2099]

the best we can hope for if for wdp to win in court and do the right thing..... not try to screw everbody over

Yea, what's going on with the WDP vs SP lawsuit. I'm rooting for WDP all the way, but what have they done to this point? I remember reading about their outrageous demands that SP find and destroy every impulse and shocker down to the last trigger frame or something lol. But have any dates been announced or has the damn situation even been confirmed? This lawsuit should spice things up a bit (if it's true).

[lawman1380]

The emag is a great marker, but it's design is at a point where it really can't get much better. The cost of the making the xmag would have eventually caught up and hurt the company. We have already got a preview of what's coming out soon and you know they they have something up their sleeve.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

[QUOTE=magman#1]sorry dude i would suggest not getting a 4 year old design like that if you're looking to be a high level tournament player even if they were still made. QUOTE]

When one considers that most High end electros function on at least some level similarly to an Angel...
And keep in mind that just as that design has undergone various upgrades, so has the E-Mag (ACE, Anti-chop... uhh... what else do you need? ;))

[Ratzo]

The problem I see with that is "the bottom half of the pyramid" is comprised of those who would rather spend $130 for a M98c then $450 for a tac-1 and also have to spring for a nitro tank.

Well I've seen a lot of people droping large chunks of change on Armotech markers as their first.
$599 for a WG65 or $450 for a Tac-1
Give me a Mag over a re-worked VM68 anyday.
I also know that most people don't leave the M98c stock for long.
I've talked to a few at the local field that wished they had have picked up a different marker, because they put more into their Tippy than what they originaly wanted to and were still not happy with it.
But heck you've got to start out some where.
So the market is wide open and all we need to do is show people what a Mag can do.

[shatter_storm]

Well I've seen a lot of people droping large chunks of change on Armotech markers as their first.
$599 for a WG65 or $450 for a Tac-1
Give me a Mag over a re-worked VM68 anyday.
I also know that most people don't leave the M98c stock for long.
I've talked to a few at the local field that wished they had have picked up a different marker, because they put more into their Tippy than what they originaly wanted to and were still not happy with it.
But heck you've got to start out some where.
So the market is wide open and all we need to do is show people what a Mag can do.

I'm one of them - after I put a flatline, stock, and drop on my tippy it still doesn't shoot well enough for me to like it anywhere but scenarios. Paintball isn't like real life, recoil and accurate aiming don't exist so there's no point in making a huge long marker to simulate the real thing - the physics don't work. Thus, my other marker is a RTP with a y-grip...

[VR4SL]

umm... X-Mag is outdated? and has problems of its own? Please, enlighten me- what were these problems again? Hmm, its just as fast/faster than the rest, lighter then all but a couple, easier to work on than the rest, TWO forms of anti-chop, can function as a manual OR electro OR hybrid, and it looks AMAZING. Sounds like a typical comment made by a "fad gun owner". The X-Mag simply didnt succeed in the USA becuase of how long AGD had the reputation of making "blenders", and the fact that the customer base is generally STUPID. People in this country are more interested in "fads" than they are in reality.

[lamby]

The biggest problem with the X-mag was the fact that you could not buy one if you wanted to. There was a backorder list that was something like 11 months long. That was was just plain stupid marketing and rollout on AGDs part.

Also, all that was good about the X mags did not come from AGD...
The sweet body was owned by AGDE
The Cool option bodies were made by nicad

AGD made the trigger frame.. which was TERRIBLE and not up to par with ANYTHING else in its class And the Valve which ROCKS the Casbar


The move to senario might be good for AGD, time will tell. I do think that Senario play is a phase and will die out.

I am still of the mindset that woods/senario is a hobby and speedball (organized in a tourney or league format) is a sport like Softball, intermural football and the such.

The future of the sport rests on the shoulders of TV. When people watch shatner ball on OLN they see a drawn out, boring, foolish event. If they watch the world cup they will see fast paced action.

Say what you want but the true future of this sport is a derivitive of the current X-Ball format. And the hope of getting a REAL sport that can translate to TV viewership (X-ball is still laking some key parts of that)

[bofh]

Tom Kaye > tzustratagy

he's smarter than you ...smarter than about 99% of the people on this forum put together...

I'll second this, and support it with the fact that he has run AGD for over the past decade, and it hasn't gone bankrupt, and managed to keep himself in Diet Pepsi doing it. Small business owners understand that's not always a given.

Now, I'll throw an odd tidbit out there. If I recall correctly, AGD made it thru the lean years in the 90's by millitary contracts. And recently has released/worked on the FN303. Even the Sydarm was designed for training purposes.

Why isn't the Tac-One consided "going back to their roots?"

and third, The recreational market, is not only where the money is, but the market is less crowded. getting 5% of a recreational market may be lots better than getting 20% of the tourney market. Besides, AGD doesn't make paint :)

[bofh]

Say what you want but the true future of this sport is a derivitive of the current X-Ball format. And the hope of getting a REAL sport that can translate to TV viewership (X-ball is still laking some key parts of that)

All too true. Somebdy who makes an entertaining to play and TV friendly paintball game, will not only make loads of cash, but advance the sport.

Right now, think of paintball markers as the equipment, say like a football. In recreational, and tourny play, we are effectively still playing "capture the flag" and have been for twenty plus years. (ok, not me personally, but long enough) Paintball needs a SPORT to be made with the equipment.

X-ball is the only format I know of, that takes paintball out of the advanced hobby stage and makes paintball a sport.

[gc82000]

ok where is this thread going to lead us. I dont see any clear reasoning or direction to what is being said. There are are three different topics so far, "where customers are?", "direction of AGD's future", and the future of paintball.
I am lost in this thread and dont feel up to post anything relavent to add fuel to anyone's fire.

[bofh]

ok where is this thread going to lead us. I dont see any clear reasoning or direction to what is being said. There are are three different topics so far, "where customers are?", "direction of AGD's future", and the future of paintball.
I am lost in this thread and dont feel up to post anything relavent to add fuel to anyone's fire.

How are those three topics that far different?

A company needs sell things.
AGD is that company that needs to sell things
The future of paintball, is mighty important to a paintball company.

AGD made a change, which address all of things

[vonort]

WHO CARES!!!!! If paintball gets recognized as a sport? Paintball will never become a "sport". Speedball might. But who really gives a flying rats arse? I play the game of paintball. I play in the woods and attend large scenarios in the woods. This part of the market will never die. It is the core and roots of paintball. All you tourny wannabes need to wake up and smell the coffe. Your never going to make money at paintball. At best 1% of all speedballers might make it as a "pro". And why can't you use a TAC-One at a tourney?


Get over it. We play a game that originated in the woods. Speedball is a spin - off of the original game. If you don't like paintball then go play Speedball. If you don't like Speedball then go play paintball. If you don't like either go play Golf. :dance:

[paullus99]

I think you'd be surprised how many scenario-driven players there are out there.....when you can get 3000+ players together in Oklahoma (of all places) for D-Day, it says something about the market.

Unfortunately, the attitude of many (most) speedball players does not help better the image of the sport - "woodsball suck, woodsball players suck, your gun sucks because its not an Angle, Cocker, etc, look at those camo guys - they must be newbies (and they suck)." Its not a zero sum game - there are many facets to all sports & people will gravitate to the area of the sport they are comfortable with.

Sure, you have the NBA - but you also have recreational basketball leagues......you have professional soccer, but tons of rec leagues....in paintball its a little different because you have different areas to play (X-Ball, woods, rec, scenario, etc). In the end, each of these areas can be successful & push the sport forward, but not everyone is ever going to settle on just one kind of paintball.

Paintball is also a very, very young sport & still developing and maturing. ADG has to make a decision, as a small company, which section of the market will generate the most profits. You have umpteen companies competing for the tourney market, arguably a small segment of the total paintball population (10% or less) - which does get a lot of publicity, but is still a very finite market....if there is more money to be had elsewhere in the market, then that is where AGD should be - the scenario market is growing by leaps & bounds (just take a look at Tippman's bottom line), and AGD has the ability to grow in this market against fairly limited competition.

I'll definitely be purchasing a Tach-One soon & joining a scenario team - it really speaks to my particular interests in this sport....and after seeing ungodly numbers of Tippmans at my last event (with over 300 people - some of the best I've ever met & one of, if not the best total experience playing), I want to be able to show the AGD flag & show it proudly.

So, I wish Tom the best & will rave about AGD to all the scenario players I meet & show them how great a scenario gun the Mag can be.

[tmnothing]

If AGD really does completely abandon tournament play they would be fools. I dont think that that will I think they're just not going to tell us that they're working on something new, and for good reason. Last week at IAO I saw more mags than I've ever seen at an event, and I saw warp feeds on all kinds of markers all over the place. They're not going to just leave the tournament scene they still have their foot in the door.

Also, if you're that unhappy about AGD turning towards scenario play, sell your mags and buy a smart parts gun! That's what I did! Muahahahahahahahaha!

[bofh]

WHO CARES!!!!! If paintball gets recognized as a sport?

I think the AGD company would like paintball to be recognized as a sport that can be watched on TV, and therefore be more expossed, and therefore expand the market.

A bigger market means, more different markers, cheaper paint, more fields, more people to play with.

So who doesn't want paintball to get recognized as a sport? :)

[bryceeden]

Hey everyone, careful what you say about SP, you may be sued! :D

I have already been sent a virus from beth@smartparts.com

[Gabriel]

who says mech guns cant compete in tourneys? its all in the indian not the bow and arrow. ill bring it to anyone with my mech mag. heck ill bring it to anyone with a mech classic mag.

so to all you saying agd is leavin the tourney scene i say bring it.

but yeah that is a smart move to go towards scenario play. gay but smart.


What happens if the indian with his bow and arrow go against a comanche helicopter complete with .50 cal machine gun, rocket pods, laser-guided bombs, and the ability to call in a nuclear warhead? What then? :shooting:

How is it gay to embrace the VAST MAJORITY of the game which you play? Think about it, when somebody thinks paintball, they normally think spyder, tippmann, WGP, WDP, and Smart Parts. Two of those companies have very little tourney play, and yet are still doing as well as those other companies. AGD is going where there is less competition for a bigger piece of the pie. And that is gay how? :confused:

[v_3Sterns]

Scenario > Tourney

[TeamNausea]

One of the worst posts ever.^

[Lohman446]

The biggest problem with the X-mag was the fact that you could not buy one if you wanted to. There was a backorder list that was something like 11 months long. That was was just plain stupid marketing and rollout on AGDs part.

Also, all that was good about the X mags did not come from AGD...
The sweet body was owned by AGDE
The Cool option bodies were made by nicad

AGD made the trigger frame.. which was TERRIBLE and not up to par with ANYTHING else in its class And the Valve which ROCKS the Casbar


The move to senario might be good for AGD, time will tell. I do think that Senario play is a phase and will die out.

I am still of the mindset that woods/senario is a hobby and speedball (organized in a tourney or league format) is a sport like Softball, intermural football and the such.

The future of the sport rests on the shoulders of TV. When people watch shatner ball on OLN they see a drawn out, boring, foolish event. If they watch the world cup they will see fast paced action.

Say what you want but the true future of this sport is a derivitive of the current X-Ball format. And the hope of getting a REAL sport that can translate to TV viewership (X-ball is still laking some key parts of that)

I looked at all of these replies on this post and considered this one. First I think you're wrong on it, though I understand your viewpoint well enough. There are valid arguments as to why woodsball/scenario games will continue to bring in new players, and give tournament players a place to "retire" to... and I think those things will keep it large for the forseeable future. I could be wrong, and your argument has some valid points.

The problem I see with "entering" the tournament scene, unless your already there and big. Now AGD has fallen from its spot at the pinnacle of the tournament scene, so has WGP. It is not their markers, both companies make excellent markers that are as capable as any other marker out there.

Frankly, if your not SP, Bob Long, or Dye your not going to introduce a new marker into the tournament scene... not like they do. I dislike SP for business practices, but never doubt for a moment the value of the Shocker. For about $700 I can have the marker good enough to power some of the best teams out there. I can have a tournament level marker. Until the most recent assortment of Intimidators what was the difference in Timmies? Some milling and yet people flocked to them. And now we have Dye into the mix with the DM4. Face it, even WDP seems to be fading from the tournament scene. I own an E-mag, but if I were to pick a marker based only on attributes and value of the marker and not the company you would be hard pressed to convince me to not by a Shocker or an Impulse. If I had to have a marker "better" (read more expensive) I would look towards the DM4 or Timmy.

On other thing these markers offer that noone else dares. Defacto factory supported cheats. At PSP in Chicago after there was an annoucnement about "altered" programming to influence things in teh marker causing you lots of problems there was a line at the Empire tent... I can only assume to get boards reflashed. I am not saying that SP, Empire, or Dye are cheating, they are making the programming easy to understand (to some people) and easy to alter. Look at 4.0 for example - the coding is not readily available, and AGD has stated they dont want a general release of it, and for the most part it has nto been because the control the ability to flash. Lets say I made a Timmy programming (or a marker with a simple computer cable hookup) that had full auto issues after 50 shots, ramped velocity, and then settled down if allowed to sit for five seconds... it could easily be distributed and find its way onto markers.

I dont blame AGD for wanting no part of this. Lines like "Dye is a platinum sponoser, we like everything they make" when asking if C4 gear was legal at Chicago worry me. There is too much politics in the major tournaments right now. From watching one pro team yelling at refs from the sideline, and during games unchallenged by the rules meant to address this, to a general feeling I got from PSP that if a major sponsor did it it was ok... if your going to play into this market, play well. If your not going to play well... take what you can get, but why try. Unfortunately I equate marketing into the tournament scene with cheating. Some people have taken the stance you have to cheat to be competetive and they may be right. Some have said that may even be true but there not going to cheat, there going to play fair and get what they can. I consider AGDs answer to the tournament scene that. We'll take what we can get, but we are not playing politics. I applaude both stances, those willing to make the stand to not go into the market, adn those willing to play the game around the market and excel at it.

[WARPED1]

I actually work for SP... I swear :ninja:
I did in '98..................

[Digits]

Yah righ, that's just what they're doing. :rolleyes:

Between those "childish army man games" and rec players most of the paintball money lies. God forbid that a company didn't jump on the Dye Tourny bandwagon because of course we know that most players are competing in top level tournaments.


I always hear this dumb misconseption..

First of all.. The reason scenario and rec is so big is because thats where all the renters/first timers/kids with birthdays go to..

Second.. I have yet to see any FACTS supporting this information.. It seems it's just something an angry rec baller made up..

Third.. Gun sales.. (above $500) is HIGHLY favoured in the tournament scene.. AGD may apeal to some of the hardcore reccers/scenarioers.. But honestly, do you really believe there are more hardcore recballers then hardcore tourny players? No.. I'd put money on it that there isnt, the only reason rec and scenario is so big is because thats what all of the new comers play. Dropping $500 on a marker to someone whos not seriouse about paintball is a little excessive though, hence why I believe the majority of 'good' gun sales lays within the tourny scene.

Either way AGD gets screwed IMO.. All of the reccers that own guns buy spiders and tippmans.. Alot of them don't want to put down over $300 on a marker for something they consider a hobby..

But with that being said.. I think AGD will be coming back to the tournament scene.. I remember in one of Toms posts he said they will be coming back with a new name, new everything.. Even though no matter how you look at it, they wont be selling as many markers as DYE (tournament) or Tippman/Kingman (rec) for now.. I still think it was a smart move for them to go scenario.. Scenario ballers typically care about reliability over anything, else, while tourny ballers care about speed.. And it's obviouse that AGD guns are stronger in the reliability department..

But to me quoting the post I quoted.. If you were big into the tournament scene you would know that there is ALOT of money here... Just go to a tourny and take a look at how many DM4's are out there.. I bet DYE makes more money then Kingman, maybe even Tippman.. Just imagine how much there making off of a $1800 marker which is probablly costing them $200's max to make.

So in conclusion.. Money is in both scenes.. AGD didn't go rec because thats where all the money was.. They went rec because thats where they would be supported more-so.. Rec is big.. But so is tourny ball.

[WARPED1]

A few years ago, WARPIG released a study from one of the major publications that only 3% of the 8 million players a year play tournaments.

[TeamNausea]

Yes this maybe true but things have changed BIG TIME in a few years. And digits i totaly agree

[Digits]

ya how many of the 97% of those non tourny players were just one timers.. Or people that play like 4 times a year?? I'm guessing a huge chunk..

Plus that was a few years ago..

That 3% is probablly a bit higher now.. But even if it was the same it means nothing.. Tourny players typically play atleast twice a month, how often do the other 97% of the players play? Once a year, if that??

I bet you the tourny scene has more money in it now that i've seen the basis of the survey people are going by...

If it was the majority of games or money spent in paintball was not in the tourny scene, then that would be a legit survey.. But the fact that some people are assuming that recball has waaay more money than tourny ball in it is just ignorant.. That survey only says that out of 8 million people who played paintball that year only 3% of them played in tournies.. And I bet those 3% played multiple times while the majority of the 97% played once.

[Xyxyll]

Listen up guys. I love my as much as the next guy, but we have to realize that the direction AGD is taking with thier markers is disturbing. First the Xmag and Emag go, then the TAC ONE is introduced, then a sydarm...why? I bought a mag because I was tired of playing GI Joe in the woods. Now it seems that we are stuck playing with mechanicals. And the deadly wind frame may be fast, but still mech, so forget great features like adjustability. Whats going on? Is AGD dropping speedball in favor of childish army man games?

I'm sorry you feel this way tzustratagy, but I must say. Your reasoning is VERY ignorant. I think you should actually try a scenario game before you try and judge it.

[Xyxyll]

I always hear this dumb misconseption..

First of all.. The reason scenario and rec is so big is because thats where all the renters/first timers/kids with birthdays go to..

Second.. I have yet to see any FACTS supporting this information.. It seems it's just something an angry rec baller made up..

Third.. Gun sales.. (above $500) is HIGHLY favoured in the tournament scene.. AGD may apeal to some of the hardcore reccers/scenarioers.. But honestly, do you really believe there are more hardcore recballers then hardcore tourny players? No.. I'd put money on it that there isnt, the only reason rec and scenario is so big is because thats what all of the new comers play. Dropping $500 on a marker to someone whos not seriouse about paintball is a little excessive though, hence why I believe the majority of 'good' gun sales lays within the tourny scene.

Either way AGD gets screwed IMO.. All of the reccers that own guns buy spiders and tippmans.. Alot of them don't want to put down over $300 on a marker for something they consider a hobby..

But with that being said.. I think AGD will be coming back to the tournament scene.. I remember in one of Toms posts he said they will be coming back with a new name, new everything.. Even though no matter how you look at it, they wont be selling as many markers as DYE (tournament) or Tippman/Kingman (rec) for now.. I still think it was a smart move for them to go scenario.. Scenario ballers typically care about reliability over anything, else, while tourny ballers care about speed.. And it's obviouse that AGD guns are stronger in the reliability department..

But to me quoting the post I quoted.. If you were big into the tournament scene you would know that there is ALOT of money here... Just go to a tourny and take a look at how many DM4's are out there.. I bet DYE makes more money then Kingman, maybe even Tippman.. Just imagine how much there making off of a $1800 marker which is probablly costing them $200's max to make.

So in conclusion.. Money is in both scenes.. AGD didn't go rec because thats where all the money was.. They went rec because thats where they would be supported more-so.. Rec is big.. But so is tourny ball.

Yet you're leaving out the scenario scene. Most scenario players are older players who have the jobs and experience to know what's a good marker to get and have a thicker budget than tournament teenagers.

And recball is much bigger than tournyball. There is a lot of money in tournyball, but there is even more in entry-level recball. Ask Brass Eagle or Kingman. They're two of the richest companies in paintball, and they target beginners exclusively! We're not saying there's no money in tournaments, but there's simply more in recball.

I know there are more reasons Tom is concentrating on scenario now. We all had a great little chat at the tech class, and there's more to what it seems. You guys should really chill out. Tom is not abandoning tournament players, he's just specializing in another form of paintball right now.

[Magglerock]

My question is, how's it going? Are sales up? At the last scenario game I went to , I didn't see a whole bunch of Tacs. In fact, I didn't see one. And as far as the market being "wide open", I guess you could say that - if you COMPLETELY ignored Tippman. Tippman has been selling unlimited accesories for the scenario player for about five years. I mean, how can you claim the Tac is a scenario gun, when it doesn't even have a stock option?

[Faddy]

But to me quoting the post I quoted.. If you were big into the tournament scene you would know that there is ALOT of money here... Just go to a tourny and take a look at how many DM4's are out there.. I bet DYE makes more money then Kingman, maybe even Tippman.. Just imagine how much there making off of a $1800 marker which is probablly costing them $200's max to make.

Sorry about the partial derail, but you're missing a bigger part of the picture here. I agree with you, to an extent. These companies that are making tourney markers are making a lot more per gun than Tippmann or Kingman (Spyder company). What's a 98 custom cost now, $150 or so? Probably cost 1/3 that to make. Regardless, the amounts aren't that important. Something to realize is, that although some of these electros might cost $200 to make, and sell for $1800, there's a lot more than just that $200 that the gun is paying for. There's advertising, sponsorships, paying for tech support, R&D, etc. That $200 a gun could easily get inflated to $500 a gun just with that. You also have to realize that $1800 is the retail price of the gun, the price that the company sells to the retailer is probably quite a bit cheaper. Now, assuming this logic on the tourney gun is flawed, consider this:

Tippmann's strategy isn't on making a high end, quality marker then marking the price up a bunch to make a ton per gun made. It's to produce and sell a ton of markers, at a low price, and make money from the quantity. If you think that they don't sell enough to make more money than say DYE, or SP or whoever, think about this for a minute. Practically everyone who has owned a paintball gun has owned a low end marker at some point. My first gun was a Spyder, everyone I knew owned a Tippmann or Spyder (or a knockoff of one of those guns) first. People who finally decide to purchase their own gun don't say, "Hmm, well paintball is pretty fun, I think I'll go ahead and buy that dm4." Of course they won't do that, they'll likely buy something in the less than $200 range. The reason they are called entry level markers is because they are the perfect gun for someone just getting into paintball. Tippmann doesn't have to spend a lot of money on advertising, because word of mouth travels very fast. If someone asked me what a good gun to buy as their first, I'd say 98 custom or Spyder. That's something practically anyone would say. Another thing is, I would be willing to bet that most fields use Tippmann's as their rentals. New player goes out and rents his first time. Plays with a Tippmann, then decides to buy a gun. Well, he shot a Tippmann and liked it, so most likely that's what he'll pick up. For those who want to upgrade their 98's, practically all the upgrades for that gun come from Tippmann themselves. You want flatline barrel, RT trigger, electro frame, etc? Gotta buy it from Tippmann. The upgrade path for Tippmann's is built in such a way that almost gets rid of the middle man. Money in the bank for Tippmann.

When you take into account the market share of tourney vs. rec/scenario ball, there's almost no way a tourney gun maker could make more money than Tippmann. Also consider that Tippmann is one of only 4 companies to still be in business in paintball since the 80's. In that time, they've even shut down their sewing machine plant in order to focus more on paintball. Dennis Tippmann is definately doing something right.

I would be honestly surprised if any tourney gun maker makes more money than Tippmann.

[minimagjim]

About not marketing to Woodsballers/scenario ball is just ridiculous. My field i go to is all about only playing woodsball. The field owners dont want hot shot speedballers to come and rough up families or Newb's who are trying the game out for the first time.

There are about 100 or so people there on average who are members and none have a electro super marker, they all have tippmanns or Military knock off markers (one guy converts mags into M16 style guns). None of these guys are bad either they are as good and as skilled as any of the tourney/speedball players. They just know woods better! And they know what they need to play. Why get a Electro marker that costs $2000 that will break down or is unfriendly to WATER, DIRT, and BRANCHES. Everyones gun gets a punishment when you play woods, a pretty anno will just get scratched up.

I think it would be awesome to have AGD be the front runner to the woods/scenario arena. i could just see it know all tippmann users running around with there own TAC tricked with scopes and home made stocks. And everyone able to strip down there guns in the field.

[RenagadeOfFunk]

...There are about 100 or so people there on average who are members and none have a electro super marker, they all have tippmanns or Military knock off markers (one guy converts mags into M16 style guns).

What about me?...I think i am the only one who goes with a "high-end" gun (Alias)...and i think there are over 300 members...but there is always 100 people there...



Why get a Electro marker that costs $2000...

...cause i like when i can push back 10 people at once in the woods, by myself :shooting:

[minimagjim]

well thats true mister fancy pants Alias, but the point is the majority dont have uber guns!

[Cryer]

Scenario > Tourney

One of the worst posts ever.^
Careful... Last time we had a thread like this, it was promptly closed, and there were some temp-bans handed out.

I think its an interesting topic, but tread lightly



...cause i like when i can push back 10 people at once in the woods, by myself :shooting:
Just to throw my hat in the ring, I offer a simple mathematical statement. Take it for what its worth:

ROF x 10 ≠ Skill x 10

[1stdeadeye]

who says mech guns cant compete in tourneys? its all in the indian not the bow and arrow. ill bring it to anyone with my mech mag. heck ill bring it to anyone with a mech classic mag.

.

If you are still rocking the benchy trigger, I'll take you up on that next weekend at NJAO! I wont even use the X-Mag, I'll rock the shocker on ya! :headbang:

[Digits]

Faddy - Don't want to quote your whole post as it's pretty long, but you did make some pretty good points.. But fields like SC Village whom I THINK are based more-so to tourny type players are busy to.. But i'd have to agree.. Recball does seem to attract more players, but for every 5 rec players, 1 tourny player probablly uses the same amount of paint in play, so thats also something to consider.

Xyxyll - True, but National Paintball is right up there with Kingman and Tippman, but I guess they do kind of sell everything.

Oh and Bob long, and Dye would also be up there.. Probablly not right up there with National and them.. But I know my friends oooold Gen-E matrix had a serial number in the 10 000's and that was like 3-4 years ago.. So I can only imagine how many DM4's are out there as I see them everywhere..

But when it comes down to it.. It's all preference.. I really don't like recball.. It's fun every once in a blue moon to me, but I don't like how people hide/camp and such.. And although I generally percieve people who play recball as more-so hobbiests, and people who play tourny ball to be more seriouse about the sport I respect both styles of play.

[Lohman446]

Oh and Bob long, and Dye would also be up there.. Probablly not right up there with National and them.. But I know my friends oooold Gen-E matrix had a serial number in the 10 000's and that was like 3-4 years ago.. So I can only imagine how many DM4's are out there as I see them everywhere..
.


I'm willing to bet vast sums of money that National and Bob Long are right next to each other in fact identical in sales if you look at the overall company standings :rolleyes:


Edit: I dont know the smiley for good natured harrassment of someone, this was meant as nicely as possible :D

[minimag03]

I think we can all agree that there is a lot more money in rec ball than in tournaments. The question is "is there enough money/growing space in the scenario to outweigh tourmnaments?"

[cockermongol]

I read through this thread and a couple of realizations came to mind. First of all, it has been stated that only 3% of paintball players are active tournament ballers. While this may be true, you must understand that recball, in general, has taken quite a different turn than it was 5 years ago. Rec ball in my area is sup air, and you will never see a Tippmann (besides a few first-timers with rentals) at the field.

The problem is that you all are equating scenario play with rec ball. Woodsball has seen HEAVY decreases in the last few years, with more and more players taking to speedball - in whatever form it may be. The Tac One is focusing on the Scenario market, which, I would venture, only covers about 30% of the "Rec Ball" paintball players.

Don't take this post the wrong way. I am one who is able to enjoy paintball in its various forms, but you must understand that woodsball has been replaced by speedball as the most popular played method in paintball. For demonstation, I invite anyone here who does not agree with me to post a poll asking people what types of field the 5 closest fields to them are, or even just ask them what type of play they participate in most of the time. You would find that MOST paintballers today (let's describe a "paintballer" as one who plays at least once every 2 months) play speedball.

At my local field there is a Big Game this weekend. It is a primarily woodsball field with a hyperball and speedball field. There will probably be about 200 people there. But when the field is in regular, day-to-day operation, the woodsball field is closed and the hyperball and speedball fields are opened. I know at the big game there will be the little kids with Tippmanns (and some adults who just play paintball as a war game), but the rest of the people will be toting angels, matrices, cockers (lots of cockers), timmys, and an assortment of other guns (there's usually one or two mags there as well).

The point is that that figure is irresposible and misleading because "rec ball" is the driving force for ALL paintball companies, not just Tippmann. Of course, scenarios will be saturated with Tippmanns, but they consist of a very small minority of the majority of rec ballers (the kind you see every week at the local speedball field).

[hobbesTZ]

At one of the fields here in NH, there's a speedball course, as well as the regualr woods courses. There a group that wants to do the speedball course, and another set of people that want to play in the woods. New players are split between the two, they don't flock to just woodsball.

It's all about preferance. I like speedball, but you waste so much paint in short games. I very much prefer the woods, as you can have lengthy games in which you can actually strategize. I have time to sit and make a plan with other players about what move to make next. I enjoy trying to be stealthy.

Recball and Scenarios will be around as long as there's paint to be thrown.

[Butterfingers]

Remember Speedball is still a form of Rec Ball.

In order for it to be tournament ball it would need to consist of people participating in actual tornaments.

When you go to your local paintball place it usually some teenager who's parents had some spare money to spend on the latest DM4. In reality most if not all of the players who own these guns do not participate in tournaments. They just play rec-ball with expensive guns.

[Blazestorm]

Woodsball is kind of nice to just play occasionally....

We had an AO day today, we played probably 10 games on sup air and 2-3 on woods... woods was fun though... cept the getting shot part :( but the sniping people with a sydarm part was cool :D

[bleachit]

What happens if the indian with his bow and arrow go against a comanche helicopter complete with .50 cal machine gun, rocket pods, laser-guided bombs, and the ability to call in a nuclear warhead? What then? :shooting:


the comanche has a 20 mm 3 barrelled gatling gun and I dont believe it has the capabilties to carry any lgb's, simply because it is a recon/attack helicopter = light weight. lgb's are big and heavy.

on top of all that... the comanche program was scrapped...

AH-64D > RAH-66


and to stay on topic...

Going after the scenario market was a good idea. Tom Kaye knows what he is doing, and I believe it will benefit AGD in the long run.

[Setzer]

The problem is that you all are equating scenario play with rec ball. Woodsball has seen HEAVY decreases in the last few years, with more and more players taking to speedball - in whatever form it may be. The Tac One is focusing on the Scenario market, which, I would venture, only covers about 30% of the "Rec Ball" paintball players.

The burden of proof is on your my friend. Woodsball has seen heavy decreases? And also your 30% number there, do you mean that 30% of recball players are purely sceneario, or that only 30% of recball players also participate in scenario games? Either way, where did you come up with these numbers?


Don't take this post the wrong way. I am one who is able to enjoy paintball in its various forms, but you must understand that woodsball has been replaced by speedball as the most popular played method in paintball. For demonstation, I invite anyone here who does not agree with me to post a poll asking people what types of field the 5 closest fields to them are, or even just ask them what type of play they participate in most of the time. You would find that MOST paintballers today (let's describe a "paintballer" as one who plays at least once every 2 months) play speedball.

You realize that speedball *requires* a field to play at. A lot of woodsball is not played at fields, just out in the woods. So yeah, the poll will be quite skewed. Also forums are a very bad representation of paintball players, so polls are naturally flawed.


The point is that that figure is irresposible and misleading because "rec ball" is the driving force for ALL paintball companies, not just Tippmann. Of course, scenarios will be saturated with Tippmanns, but they consist of a very small minority of the majority of rec ballers (the kind you see every week at the local speedball field).

That 3% was obtained through a method that represents the paintball community much better than your "opinions". And to say that scenario ball is a "very small minority of the majority of rec ballers" is way off. The problem is, a lot of people that play just speedball assume that not many play scenario games. Actually, scenario games are huge, you just don't hear about them because you are busy listening to what kind of underwear your favorite tourny baller wears to increase his bps.

[Nutsnyomowf]

Actually, scenario games are huge, you just don't hear about them because you are busy listening to what kind of underwear your favorite tourny baller wears to increase his bps.

LMAO, man that was a good one!!!

[bryceeden]

The burden of proof is on your my friend. Woodsball has seen heavy decreases? And also your 30% number there, do you mean that 30% of recball players are purely sceneario, or that only 30% of recball players also participate in scenario games? Either way, where did you come up with these numbers?



You realize that speedball *requires* a field to play at. A lot of woodsball is not played at fields, just out in the woods. So yeah, the poll will be quite skewed. Also forums are a very bad representation of paintball players, so polls are naturally flawed.



That 3% was obtained through a method that represents the paintball community much better than your "opinions". And to say that scenario ball is a "very small minority of the majority of rec ballers" is way off. The problem is, a lot of people that play just speedball assume that not many play scenario games. Actually, scenario games are huge, you just don't hear about them because you are busy listening to what kind of underwear your favorite tourny baller wears to increase his bps.




Don't get me wrong, I personaly play mostly woodsball or a hybrid of the two, but I am a partner in a state wide paintball franchise and I can say with 100% confidence that most rec ball(in Utah anyway) is more speedball then woodsball(although alot is a strange hybrid of the two)

AGD is focusing on rec ball with the ULE Custom for speedball(yes, is is a great speedball marker for rec ball) and the TAC one for woodsball. Laying low in tourney ball does't mean abandoning speedball.

[Thordic]

Last week, IAO, the "biggest" tournament in paintball, drew maybe 100 teams, tops. Maybe 500 players? 700 at the most.

Michigan Monster Game drew like TEN TIMES that number.

Just to throw that in there :)

[GotMag?]

Is there a monster game for every state?


BTW, tourny players IMO are all about the hype and the latest thing, so unless AGD comes out with a really "AGG" new gun, then they wont be succesful in the tourny scence, so why not go into scenario?

P.S. THis smart parts crap doesnt help at all

[Xyxyll]

Actually, all of my local fields have a woods field and a speedball field. They rotate between woodsball and speedball every other game. We also have different days for concentrated woodsball and speedball. Saturday is primarily woodsball with a few games in the speedball course, and Sunday is vice-versa.

BTW, I play scenario and tournament... and I rarely go to my local fields, and I'm not alone either. So even if the 30% percentage is correct, there is still a great deal of scenario players that are not recballers.

[Slimm Jimm]

...its all in the indian not the bow and arrow. ill bring it to anyone with my mech mag. heck ill bring it to anyone with a mech classic mag.

Havn't youi heard, it hasn't been "indian" for years, and it's no longer "native american", it's now "first americans". :rolleyes:

Actaully, I use me E-mag in the North West NPPL feeder circuit and another front-man uses an Classic RT, and he can actually hold his own quite well with it.

I've also used my E-mag in a scenario, and intend to make it into a marker to use mainly for scenarios. I'm just waiting for the hAIR trigger to come out.

I really don't care what kind of paintball I'm playing, as long as I'm playing. :dance:

[dynastyfan]

ok i see it like this if you and abunch of other people had you hand in a pot of water and someone put a fire under it would you
A) pull your hand out
or
B) be the smart one to leave his hand in the water

and tk was the person who pulled his hand out before it was to late and i support agd with what they are doing and i've been thinking of ditching speedball for a while and playing big games and woodsball