My field just got a new self fill system...

[Duck Hunt]

And I'm wondering if this means it flash fills the tanks? It only takes acouple seconds.

Sean

[Blazestorm]

9 minutes is the how long it SHOULD take with 68/4500 bottles.

a couple seconds is incredible flash filling. Still doesn't beat the guy who opened the valve all the way and closed it after. Wow... :p

[eNder159]

when you mean a couple seconds do you mean in like 5 seconds itll be filled...or after half a minute?

[Duck Hunt]

I should have been more detailed. To fill half a 68/45 it takes maybe 15 seconds.

Sean

[barrel break]

9 minutes is the how long it SHOULD take with 68/4500 bottles.

a couple seconds is incredible flash filling. Still doesn't beat the guy who opened the valve all the way and closed it after. Wow... :p

9 minutes???? I was just at camp, and they had us filling our own tanks with a Kalibur push button station and it took me under a minute... was i doing something wrong?

[Sparq]

One of the fields around here has one as well, which fills to 3000. My old 68/3k took probably 10-15 seconds to fill from empty. Kepp in mind that's an approximation...I haven't owned or filled an HPA tank ina few months.

[SlipknotX556]

My old field had a self fill, took like 10 seconds to fill my 68ci 3k tank. I love self fill, its quick and easy.

[tony3]

They are suppose to fill fast, but in reality the safe time it should take is 9 minutes. I think youll be fine though, think of all the nppl and psp tournies where they use these filling systems and the thousands of tanks tanks that have got filled and not 1 injury/death.

[Sparq]

The 9 minute fill time thing may even be a liability issue...read a goggle manual and it'll tell you to replace your lenses every time they take a direct hit. How many of us actually do that?

[SlartyBartFast]

They are suppose to fill fast, but in reality the safe time it should take is 9 minutes. I think youll be fine though, think of all the nppl and psp tournies where they use these filling systems and the thousands of tanks tanks that have got filled and not 1 injury/death.

Ahh, the wonderful respect for safety as demonstrated by the general paintball playing public. :rolleyes:

I guess all the firefighters are just big wusses considering the explosion shields and containers that they use to fill SCBA tanks. :rolleyes:


One day, a 10 yr old is going to lose an arm and half their face when their tank explodes. How the insurance industry allows this situation to exist I have no idea. I thoroughly don't understand how the various compressor companies can essecntially be in cahoots with these practices either.

Part of the reason for my thread.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146677

[Blazestorm]

I'm going to find an old carbon-fiber tank to see how "strong" these are... you know, bash it a few times against a rock, take a few shots at it with a gun... then go get it hydro-tested :p

As well as do the same with some lens.

People have claimed to have shot their v-force lens with a .22 rifle and still have them in-tact.

Paintballers are impatient, they want their fill fast so they can go back to playing, I tend to have them fill my tanks, make them take 2-3 minutes to fill mine, as well as check everyone's hydro while I'm there... I found one field filling tanks with 97 and 98 hydros... no re-hydro... :tard:

I really hate stupid people, but it's their loss when their field gets shut-down because they didn't operate it properly and someone was killed.

[SlartyBartFast]

I really hate stupid people, but it's their loss when their field gets shut-down because they didn't operate it properly and someone was killed.

If it was some idiot who should know better as was doing something deserving of a Darwin award, then I might agree with you.

But, is it the loss of only the field when that mother was killed by the flying CO2 bottle? Will it be only the field's loss when an innocent kid gets killed and the whole industry gets shut down with the following lawsuits?

Actually, the day someone gets killed or seriously injured filling a bottle in a manner that is widely accepted in paintball but warned against by every manufacturer and far below how other groups perform the same task, that'll be the day paintball as a whole deserves to be shut down. The industry negligence is aberrant and criminal in this regard.

At least with SCUBA equipment you had to take a modicum of training and be fully aware of your own stupidity before being allowed to handle high pressure cylinders and to be certified to fill them.

[Chris42050]

The only fills around here are do it yourself flash fills. Just recently the guy in front of me blew his burst disc on his tank. Scared the crap out of a couple of us standing right there but no big deal. I have never seen a fill take longer than 15 seconds at any of the fields or stores by me.

[SlartyBartFast]

And running across a dead-end residential street blindfolded and with ear plugs is pretty safe.

Driving across rural railroad crossings without stopping isn't particularily risky.

Some people think Russian roulette with a six shooter is fair odds.

But to expose everyone to risks they don't understand, well .........

Would you let a family member do any of the above activities?

[68magOwner]

CFOA tournies have those, only time ive used one, took probably 10 seconds or less to fill a 68/3k

[Blazestorm]

SlartyBartFart - I was saying it was the loss of the field for their negligence. That mother did nothing wrong, she didn't know any better. The field's should be the ones correcting the stupid people and doing it right, not the other way around. I'm not saying there aren't other losses, but I'm saying the people that neglected proper safety are losing something.

Nothing we can do about it really, it's too widely accepted, Only once have I gotten a true fill, which is where the guy took about 6-7 minutes at a shop to fill my tank, he was one of the older guys who's been working at the shop for 10+ years (it's been around for 15) and knows pretty much everything, and read up on safety of nitro-tanks, which is why he fills slow... if anyone else is manning the fill station.. you get a nice... 5-10 second flash fill, which goes from 4500 psi down to 3500 psi in a couple of minutes.

I'll continue to ask for a slow fill every-time I get a fill, but that's all I can do.

[FSU_Paintball]

NCPA orlando had compressors hooked up... only took a few seconds to fill tanks.

I keep hearing about the dangers of flash-filling, and I'd be inclined to agree... except I have NEVER, not ONCE, heard of a tank exploding due to anything, much less due to flash filling. And there's a LOT of people doing that to their tanks.

I wouldn't sweat it too much

[toymyster]

The pushbutton stations do slow down the flow a bit, and arn't too bad!! Beware of the idiots that fill your 112ci in 2 seconds, and when they hand it back to you, it burns a hole in your glove!!

[SlartyBartFast]

Beware of the idiots that fill your 112ci in 2 seconds, and when they hand it back to you, it burns a hole in your glove!!

According to every bottle manufactuere, the correct course of action once a bottle has reached a temperature too hot to hold comfortably:

-Empty it.
-Drill a big hole in it.
-Discard.

Once overheated the composite is shot.

[tony3]

Ahh, the wonderful respect for safety as demonstrated by the general paintball playing public. :rolleyes:

I guess all the firefighters are just big wusses considering the explosion shields and containers that they use to fill SCBA tanks. :rolleyes:


One day, a 10 yr old is going to lose an arm and half their face when their tank explodes. How the insurance industry allows this situation to exist I have no idea. I thoroughly don't understand how the various compressor companies can essecntially be in cahoots with these practices either.

Part of the reason for my thread.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146677

I've never called them wusses, braver then me, I'd never become a fire fighter. That is besides the point. 168 teams were registered for chicago open, say each team plays 7 games, and their are 10 people on a team, even though their is 5 man, but some people need to fill their nitro tank multiple times during an xball match, so thats about right, so lets say 11,000 fills total. Now lets say 3 other tournies this year, then take the 5 from last year, we are at around 90,000 fills. Not one death or injury from a tank exploding. Take into account all of the other fills every year. Good odds if you ask me.

[Digits]

Ahh, the wonderful respect for safety as demonstrated by the general paintball playing public. :rolleyes:

I guess all the firefighters are just big wusses considering the explosion shields and containers that they use to fill SCBA tanks. :rolleyes:


One day, a 10 yr old is going to lose an arm and half their face when their tank explodes. How the insurance industry allows this situation to exist I have no idea. I thoroughly don't understand how the various compressor companies can essecntially be in cahoots with these practices either.

Part of the reason for my thread.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146677

Do you even know how many safety percautions are in these tanks?? And do you know how thick the carbon fiber/steel is?? A guy I know, who took a course on this stuff told me that only about an inch or two round in the bottle is actual air.. The rest is carbon fibre and such.. Plus there are burst disks which make sure tanks don't blow up if filled to fast.. Also.. Carbon fiber and tanks alike in paintball are built to crumble a certain way.. They don't expload, they more-so crumble down.. And i'm sure there are many more contraptions built into tanks, I just never bothered to ask him..

Also.. About the CO2 tank hitting the mother in the head.. That is another reason why C02 tanks are so freaking unsafe.. If you've tankin a reg of a CO2 tank, and a ref of an HPA tank you would know what i'm talking about.. Regs on CO2 tanks, the threads are like half an inch long.. A person probably wouldn't notice if this type of thing is unscrewing.. But a reg on an HPA tank, the threads are like 2 inches long.. Unless you were retarded you would know that something is up when your unscrewing your tank..

Plus the only reason the bottle came off of the CO2 tank and hit the mother is because the idiot kids plugged a safety feature in the reg which bleeds the air out of the tank before it can be fully deatatched from the reg.. Thats what happens when people that don't know what there doing try to screw around with there tanks and install crap on them.

Oh and 9 minutes for a fill is just flat out retarded.. It would take forever to get everyone ready at a tournament unless they had a crapload of fillstations going at once, and alot of the smaller tourny's couldnt afford that.

[trains are bad]

A guy I know, who took a course on this stuff told me that only about an inch or two round in the bottle is actual air..

This is so rediculous someone should sig it.

[Digits]

what are you talking about.. There is a tube, in the center of the bottle.. The rest is carbon fibre/steel.. Maybe it's a bit bigger then an inchor two, I don't know forsure, but I know the majority of the bottle is wrapping.. But trust me, he has no reason to lie, he is a certified tech on almost every gun out there, and took a course on this stuff..

You know those big steal scuba tanks.. There is only a tube in the center of those to that hold air..

Maybe your to ignorant to believe this, but i'd rather believe a guy who took a course on it then some guy who thinks he knows.

[trains are bad]

dude, the bottle holds 68 cubic inches or whatever it may be. It's obviously a metal tank, wrapped with fiber. I doubt the walls are thicker that 3/8". I havo never looked in one be geez just going by the heft, something doesn't add up.

[abunkerer]

HAHA...good stuff.. :rofl:

Anyway, now that we are talking about tank failures I just saw one last weekend. THe field uses "push button" fill your own stations, pretty much "flash fills". a guy on a team that we practice with was putting his gear into the trunk of his car when all of a sudden PSHHHHHHHHHH, I thought someones macro blew or something and I look over and see this guy running, Holding the back of his head, and this tank spinning out of controll flipping around...I dove behind my car until it stopped.
The guy took a nice shot in the head, luckily the tank was only half full and the bottle had a cover on it, he had a nice sized red bump and was stunned like he'd been jacked by Mike Tyson.
Upon inspection of the pure energy 4500 tank it seemed as though the oring blew out where the regulator screws onto the bottle, the bottle was a year or two old but was still in hydro. And when it blew it was not being banged around or anything, the thing literally jumped out of the trunk of his car and went out of controll for no reason! Maybe the flash fills wore out the seal? always getting hot flash fills and then being shot like mad for a game causing rapid cooling down and then back to the fill station(free fills so people frequently top off between games)
As the sport of paintball gains more populatity, and more and more people begin to use compressed air, and the intensity of the game gets harder on the equipment physically, and this equipment starts to get old and wear out..more incidents like this are likely to appear.

[Digits]

dude, the bottle holds 68 cubic inches or whatever it may be. It's obviously a metal tank, wrapped with fiber. I doubt the walls are thicker that 3/8". I havo never looked in one be geez just going by the heft, something doesn't add up.

lol.. Not according to the guy.. And I know he knows what he's talking about.. They even showed them a blown tank at the course he took to see how it shattered..

Oh and I would not trust a tank with only 3/8" of an outer shell.. Honestly, the body can withstand something like 12 psi (inside) before it rips the skin from the muscle.. This is 3000psi in a tank.. I think i'd want a little more than 3/8" of protection.

[RoboBeaver]

umm, i do not think that tanks really shatter, more like BANG, my aunts pool filter, which is like a really big fiber tank, blew the hell up acouple summers ago, and it woke us up, it got sand into the pol, which was about 15 feet away from the filter, the thing blew apart, it didnt shatter.

and even if a tank did shater, that sounds alot like shrapnel, , and that seems alot more dangerous, flying peices of tank, instead of just the tank popping.

[RoboBeaver]

i did alittle searching, http://www.diveandsea.com/dive_newsletter.htm

yep, this tank really shattered, how safe

this wasnt due to flashfilling, but it just shows that tanks do not shatter, it also shows a cross section ish vew of the top of a scuba tank, please note that the tank does NOT just have a small cylander in the middle

there ya go

ill look more , so if i find anything, ill post it again i guess

holy double posts, batman!

[Digits]

doesnt look like a paintball tank to me.. But either way the guys lucky he wasnt back there with it.

[RoboBeaver]

you said scuba tanks work the same way

i figured you "guy" took a course in scuba gear, or was it paintball gear,, but tanks dont just blow happily, heh


You know those big steal scuba tanks.. There is only a tube in the center of those to that hold air..

[SlartyBartFast]

lol.. Not according to the guy.. And I know he knows what he's talking about..


My god. :tard:

Digits, the guy that you hold in such high regard is about as smart as a bag or doorknobs.

There isn't even an 1/8 th to a 1/4 of an inch thickness in a tank wall. Measure 68 cubic inches of water and compare it to a 68 ci tank. Show the two to the mindless numbnut and have him try and re-explain his stupidity to you. Then maybe you can become alpha dweeb and he'll worship you for your mental ability. :p

Doesn't matter what course the twit took, but if he got a certification from it, well it's prrof positive that there's a lot of people out there that just shouldn't be allowed to breed. :rolleyes:

I`m getting my information straight from the manufacturers of paintball tanks. You think your friend is somehow endowed with greater knowledge than the people that actually design and build these things?

[SlartyBartFast]

doesnt look like a paintball tank to me.. But either way the guys lucky he wasnt back there with it.

It's not a paintball tank. That picture alone however proves that your concept of tanks is hopelessly wrong. There's clearly more than a tiny tube in the middle.

There are pictures in other threads on AO about tank safety that have pictures of blown composite tanks.

[cockermongol]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what a burst disk is for? (to prevent the tank from just "exploding")

[SlartyBartFast]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what a burst disk is for? (to prevent the tank from just "exploding")

Well, it a safety feature that will prevent the tank from being over pressurised. This will make sure that the tank won't explode IF the tank is in good condition and hasn't been weakened in any way by misuse or overheating, or repeated overpressuriseation, etc.

[peewee]

There used to be pictures of a 68 /3000 cut in half somewhere on the net also showed one that had been shot etc. The walls were thicker than I would have thought. Thought they had it at warpig not sure. I beleve apg also had picts back in the mid 90's showing what could happen when a tank blew. I know the main place that I get my fills the owner had to go thru classes etc & get certified before he could even buy a system to perform HPA fills. He doesnt flash fill, but I am not sure that they take the 9 min. Probably about 5 to 7 min.

[ilikePB]

umm, i do not think that tanks really shatter, more like BANG, my aunts pool filter, which is like a really big fiber tank, blew the hell up acouple summers ago, and it woke us up, it got sand into the pol, which was about 15 feet away from the filter, the thing blew apart, it didnt shatter.

Ok, I work in pool construction and set up systems sometimes. Pool filters are not like big fiber tanks. All they are is plastic type cylinder that holds a big filter that the water gos through. The filter should not have more than 30psi going through it, normal is generally 10psi. If the pressure goes up it means the filter should be cleaned. It wouldn't take a whole lot of pressure to burst a filter but that sounds real funky. The plastic should crack before it explodes, that is really wierd, I have never heard of anything like that and there are a lot of pools down here in Florida. So, I'm just saying that is a super freak 1 in a trillion type thing to happen, unless the company that did that system uses some funky equipment.

[RoboBeaver]

i was just saying, she had a really really old pump, it doesnt have much pressure like 10-20 psi, i checked the guage acouple times, but her old one blew up,and we cracked it apart, it was half full of sand and this other stuff at the very bottom, and when it blew it was at night, it woke us up, its not as high pressure as a pb tank though, but it still blew up.

this pool is old, like really old, and the filter was the original, but it was a really big fiber wrapped tank, with a hose going in the top and out the bottom. now she has the plastic kind you described

i was just comparing to say that something with 4500 pressure in it would probably go alot more than "bang" if something that has 15 psi in it cracks with a thunderous bang

[Setzer]

Regs on CO2 tanks, the threads are like half an inch long.. A person probably wouldn't notice if this type of thing is unscrewing.. But a reg on an HPA tank, the threads are like 2 inches long..

I'd just like to mention that CO2 tanks are only holding around 850psi when they are filled, while HPA is 3000 or 4500 (for paintball anyway).

Also, just because there are saftey features on a tank (burst discs, hydro testing, ect) does not mean that the tank is immune to catastrophic failure. That is kinda why its called catastrophic failure. Also, those things work best if the rest of your tank is in perfect working order. Flash filling wears out your tank a lot faster, and makes it more prone to this sort of thing. Also, flash filling gives crappy fills.

[Josh2Xtremes]

This won't take long. This whole thread boils down to 1 thing. If it says "Kalibur" or "Bauer" on your fill station, it's safe. Plain and simple.
Josh

[CodeMA]

And there ya go....


On a side note, the scuba shop thing, ya, ouch.... Having a suba tank presently, I can say they just dont seem quite as safe as our little carbon fiber bombs ;)

Oh, and I recommend checking your tank before and after every day if your worried about it, check for gougeing or scorch marks, etc...


The worst thing Ive seen happen is burst disks go bye bye with Push button systems, and the occational oring in the QD freak out, or a tank pop off... Kaliber systems seem quite safe I gotta say... I trust myself with my tank filling then I do most people...and generally Ill watch them fill a tank before I hand mine over, and add some words of advice before doing so... Ive still gotten tanks back overfilled(3k to 4.5k, and flash filled at that, gotta say it amazes me)

Anyway, I gotta say, I havnt heard of any damage actually happening, and Im pretty sure they were rather heavily tested, namely to be allowed to be used at feilds with todays rather strict inshurance policies(Example: Tried out a feild, I wasnt supposed to be on the same side of the wall were tank was being filled, Went back to same feild a few weeks later, push button system...) So, that says something right there...

[50 cal]

Those self fill stations are an accident waiting to happen. When someone finally does get hurt, the owner of the fill station better get ready to bend over the barrel, cause he's gonna get reamed.

[ilikePB]

i was just comparing to say that something with 4500 pressure in it would probably go alot more than "bang" if something that has 15 psi in it cracks with a thunderous bang
Very true.

[lew]

Here's a cutaway tank for you guys: http://www.moodypaintball.com/pages/tech/goodies.htm

It's all the way at the bottom.

[CodeMA]

http://www.moodypaintball.com/graphics/goodies/cuttank.jpg

for those that dont wanna scroll to the bottem and wait for things to load...

seems thick enough to me...

[TDonovan]

Well since many people only have access to push button setups, what is the best way to fill a tank with them? I'd like to know what precautions I can take or methods I can use to keep my tank completely safe with the pushbutton fills.

[tony3]

They are safe if your tank is in hydro, and the system isn't defective. Just think of the thousands of fills every year used with those fill stations and not 1 incident.

[Lohman446]

Hmmm.. let me say that I flash fill my own tanks as do most people I know.

Most people who know high pressure tanks outside of paintball would never think for a moment that they could take the abuse we give them. Diving on them, hitting them iwth noticeable pressure (the paintballs), and flash filling, we abuse the hell out of them. Most people who have never witnessed paintball would, given those scenarios, announce them inherently unsafe to use.

I am surprised by the abuse they do take, and have to say this. Judging by the lack of incidents surrounding the things, I would have to say our uses are safe but I am not qualified to make that determination. From an engineering standpoint our abuse of them is negligently unsafe.

PS - I trade out my tanks every year for new ones as an added safey procedure, none of my tanks are ever uncovered - not that the cover is going to do me much good. All my tanks are carbon wrapped as I think damage may be easier to ascertain adn that supposedly carbon fiber will unravel rather than exploding in a catastrophic failure.