ACE Board vs. Predator II! Round 1!

[Empyreal Rogue]

Okay, the purpose of this thread is to squeeze as much information on these two boards as possible. I know which is obviously better but for 60 dollars I might be a little happier with the ACE Board.

The ACE is very sensitive, reflects light off paint and is the standard board in the X-Mag. A lot of people say it's faulty but so many people use X-Mags and never complain about the Eye system, so it can't be all that bad- right?

The Predator Board I have heard nothing but goodness about it. At 130 dollars, that's not a -BAD- price but is it necessary to pay that much? This is board allows unlimited BPS with the Eyes on and the board is TINY!

Am I spending too much on the Predator, or am I wasting my money on the ACE?

I only want to hear personal experiences with either board. Not, "Oh well I read here that..." That's not what I'm looking for. You don't have to own one or the other, just have had personal experience.

*Note* I will buy one of those two, but which is yet to be decided. I know they work only on electronic markers and I'm getting one for my E-Mag, this isn't for my Mechanical Setup.

[ilikePB]

Have you looked into the Morlock board? It can support both reflective and break beam "eyes". Just thought you might want to check it out, give yourself another option.

[Empyreal Rogue]

I'm not really interested in the Morlock Board. I either want the best I can get, Predator II, or the cheapest, ACE Board. Nothing in between.

[Skoad]

why not interested in morlock?

they are coming out with a new "mini morlock" supposed to be super tiny.

[magman007]

get the predator. the ace boards, while nice, are very prone to fizzling out.... trust me, ive killed 2 very easily. I know dayspring has killed even more than i have!

[Empyreal Rogue]

How do you install the Predator and Eyes? It uses Break-Beam eyes so I don't know how much different it will be than the reflective eye.

Why is the ACE Board so prone to being fried, if you don't mind telling me.

Here's part II of my post:

Is a lower profile worth 95 dollars (Warp Left SS Mainbody and Doc Nickel Automag-to-Autococker thread adapter) and drilling two holes through the Stainless Steel tubes? Or should I get a ULE Body and drill 1 quick hole through the mainbody, since it's so easy to drill through. Please no biased opinions, I need some -honest- opinions on this, it's vital.

[GA Devil]

People may think Im bias but its only cause its been proven. Predator is only way to go. My DevilMAG's are turning heads all the time. Here is an old vid of mine.

http://devilsden.tv/devilmag_promo.wmv

Ive been so busy I havent been able to get a new vid done. With the break beam eyes you can also go back to a foamie lvl 7 to get that extra bit of cycle speed.

[GA Devil]

How do you install the Predator and Eyes? It uses Break-Beam eyes so I don't know how much different it will be than the reflective eye.

Why is the ACE Board so prone to being fried, if you don't mind telling me.

Here's part II of my post:

Is a lower profile worth 95 dollars (Warp Left SS Mainbody and Doc Nickel Automag-to-Autococker thread adapter) and drilling two holes through the Stainless Steel tubes? Or should I get a ULE Body and drill 1 quick hole through the mainbody, since it's so easy to drill through. Please no biased opinions, I need some -honest- opinions on this, it's vital.


Must use ULE body..not enough meat on a SS body
Break beam is just that..the ball breaks a beam so unlike reflective eyes you dont have to worry if the eye can "see" the paint color

[FragTek]

GA Devil,

Empyreal is local to me, once I get my new DevilMag and let him try it out you should have another order coming in :) hehe.

Empyreal,

Just get the damn DevilMag conversion!!!! You won't regret it, screw ur ACE PCB idea...

[Dayspring]

Only one. It took two fryings to kill it. :D

AGD quality. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.


get the predator. the ace boards, while nice, are very prone to fizzling out.... trust me, ive killed 2 very easily. I know dayspring has killed even more than i have!

[Empyreal Rogue]

*slaps Frag*

I'll be more than happy to take the DevilMag for a test run. And you'll have your own Q-Loader then, I can only imagine what videos you'll make. But I want to witness them so make sure you tell me when.

GA Devil, I will be buying the Upgrade. But not anytime soon because I've gotta come up with 400 dollar before Ho buys the Electric Vert. Frame for HIS DevilMag. That way I can have the E-Mag part. heh

[Hey Its Vo]

Have you looked into the Morlock board? It can support both reflective and break beam "eyes".option.

So can he pred II

[Lurker27]

Spyder Frame + Tboard + 25g switch + Tutorial on this very site + minimal work = Devilmag.

[AGDlover]

People may think Im bias but its only cause its been proven. Predator is only way to go. My DevilMAG's are turning heads all the time. Here is an old vid of mine.

http://devilsden.tv/devilmag_promo.wmv

Ive been so busy I havent been able to get a new vid done. With the break beam eyes you can also go back to a foamie lvl 7 to get that extra bit of cycle speed.


its funny that i saw this post because me and GA Devil will be running a speed compotishion when hes up at AGD. so my E-mag agenst his Devil Mag so if ya wanna put that in as one of your test it would be interesting. see you at AGD GA devil :mad: :ninja: muhahahahahaa

[Empyreal Rogue]

I'd more than glad to run my EX-Mag with 3.2 Software, Predator Board with Ripper Trigger Mod against a your E-Mag. :D

[GA Devil]

Spyder Frame + Tboard + 25g switch + Tutorial on this very site + minimal work = Devilmag.


LMAO you wish. You go ahead and build that and Ill bring mine and we can see if their the same.

[GA Devil]

its funny that i saw this post because me and GA Devil will be running a speed compotishion when hes up at AGD. so my E-mag agenst his Devil Mag so if ya wanna put that in as one of your test it would be interesting. see you at AGD GA devil :mad: :ninja: muhahahahahaa


yeah but u havent agreed to the wager yet.

[AGDlover]

i told you dude were not going gun for gun maby pack for pack.

[GA Devil]

i told you dude were not going gun for gun maby pack for pack.


But your confident you will win anyway so only thing to worry about is what your gonna do with your new gun right?

[FragTek]

Spyder Frame + Tboard + 25g switch + Tutorial on this very site + minimal work = Devilmag.

Forgetting something key to the DevilMag? EYES MAYBE??? :rofl:

I'm with GA Devil on this one, his setup straight up rips tiznits :)

[Cryer]

Forgetting something key to the DevilMag? EYES MAYBE??? :rofl:

I'm with GA Devil on this one, his setup straight up rips tiznits :)
Whats a tiznit? :confused:


and how are they most easily ripped?







:p

[ilikePB]

Spyder Frame + Tboard + 25g switch + Tutorial on this very site + minimal work = Devilmag.

I don't think so, otherwise, many people would have done this by now. At least, that's what I think.

[Chris Nearchos]

Where can i buy the Predator and morlock boards?

[Lurker27]

Tboard comes with breakbeam eyes, 880nm matched if I'm not mistaken.

I don't see the difference... One adjustable debounce board versus another...what's the difference.

In my mind, the onus of proof of superiority lies squarely on GADevil and not myself.

WHY would the DevilMag conversion be better?

[FragTek]

Tboard comes with breakbeam eyes, 880nm matched if I'm not mistaken.

I don't see the difference... One adjustable debounce board versus another...what's the difference.

In my mind, the onus of proof of superiority lies squarely on GADevil and not myself.

WHY would the DevilMag conversion be better?

None the less, the DevilMag pwns :) The Predator II has asynchronous trigger sampling, which means in essence the trigger is never sampled... The instant the switch is tripped it only takes 200 nanoseconds for the board to fire the marker, that's faster than any other board on the market. Faster than a laser beam in fact.

I haven't seen a Tboard but I'm sure the Predator II is smaller as it's claimed to be the smallest board, gotta love things in small packages :)

It also has a computer interface, always good for firmware updates :D

Not to mention the adjutability of this board, it can be setup to the "T". Don't know about the Tboard cuz I've never used one.

Chris - Morlock boards are no longer made as KM2 no longer exists. You may be able to find a used one somewhere. I bought one from TheAngelGuy to put in my Shocker. Predator II boards can be found at www.tagsportz.com

[Chris Nearchos]

thanks for the info fragtek

[Doc Nickel]

Morlock boards are no longer made as KM2 no longer exists. You may be able to find a used one somewhere. I bought one from TheAngelGuy to put in my Shocker. Predator II boards can be found at www.tagsportz.com

-No longer exists? Curt might be surprised to hear that, since KM2 makes the Predator 2 board.

KM2's website is down mainly because KM2 no longer sells direct- boards are available now only through authorized dealers, like tagsportz.com and myself.

Morlocks are, however, currently hard to come by, since they're switching over to the MiniMorlock, which is the same size and apparance as the Predator. But while the Predator is designed for single-solenoid guns and optimized for high ROF, the MiniMorlock, like the first Morlock, is designed to fit any gun, single or dual solenoid, with or without loader control, break beam or reflective eyes, etc.

Because it has more features, the software isn't quite as single-'noid optimized, but 95% of MiniMorlock users will never know the difference, since the difference is very slight.

Doc.

[CoolHand]

. . . . .Curt might be surprised to hear that, since KM2 makes the Predator 2 board. . . . . . Doc.

:rofl: I was just gettin ready to say that.

[GA Devil]

the pred 2 can in fact operate dual silenoid markers.

[Lurker27]

It jumps into action at the speed of light! lol.

The delay it takes for air to move through the passages makes the microsecond differences in software irrelevant.

Interrupt baseed triggers don't matter at all. In theory, sampling more often catches more trigger signals, because it doesn't look, do something else and look again, right? But EVERY microswitch I've seen bounces for more than a millisecond (think about behavior of debounce 1) so it doesn't matter.


I'm not debating whether or not the Devilmag rips, I'm simply saying that there's an alternative that's just as good at a fraction of the price. Give me a reason why it's not as good, I've yet to hear one.

[Chris Nearchos]

So which board is better? the Predator 2, Morlock, or the MiniMorlock?

[ilikePB]

So which board is better? the Predator 2, Morlock, or the MiniMorlock?
I think the MiniMorlock and Predator 2 are almost identical, so I would say they are tied. Of course the MiniMorlock is made to fit anything and the Pred 2 is designed more for single solenoid guns(at least that's what I hear). The Morlock is just an older, bigger version of the MiniMorlock.

[Chris Nearchos]

i have a Emag with the x valve, eclipse body rail and a minimag body. which board would be best for it?

[Empyreal Rogue]

The board is only useful if you have the eyes installed. You know that, right?

[FragTek]

The board is only useful if you have the eyes installed. You know that, right?

How do u figure? It gives you a large control in timing, multiple firing modes, and the fastest circuitry on the market with or w/o eyes.

[Chris Nearchos]

Yea, i know that. I already have an eye installed on my gun. iam just trying to figure which is the best board that i should go with for the eye.

[ilikePB]

Yea, i know that. I already have an eye installed on my gun. iam just trying which is the best board i should go with for the eye.
Well, I know the Predator 2 boards can work with mags cause that's what the DevilMag uses...

[Empyreal Rogue]

It gives you a large control in timing, multiple firing modes, and the fastest circuitry on the market with or w/o eyes.

Would that make a difference with the E-Mag software/board, though?

Chris, which eye do you have installed? If it's the AGD ACE Board then you'll need new eyes.

[Chris Nearchos]

Iam not sure what the eye is but it is not the ace eye. the eye was installed by my local shop.

has anyone tried a MiniMorlock board with a emag/ xmag? if so how did it workout for you?

[ilikePB]

has anyone tried a MiniMorlock board with a emag/ xmag? if so how did it workout for you?
It should work just as good as the Predator 2 board in the DevilMag does, as long as it is programmed correctly. If I understand correctly, the MiniMorlock and the Predator 2 board are both made by the same company. If that's the case, then you could understand why they would perform so similar.

[FragTek]

The Predator II is made by TAG Sportz, the Morlock series is made by KM2.

[Chris Nearchos]

So..... let me get this straight, both boards are basicly alike? the only real reason for making the MiniMorlock is because of its size? but the program of the boards are the same?

[FragTek]

Programming is different between the Predator II and Morlock. The MiniMorlock is just a space saver.

Plus the Predator II samples the trigger asynchronously which means fast fast fast. Only board that does this.

[ilikePB]

The Predator II is made by TAG Sportz, the Morlock series is made by KM2.
I'm almost 100% sure that the Predator 2 is made by KM2 for TAG Sportz.


So..... let me get this straight, both boards are basicly alike? the only real reason for making the MiniMorlock is because of its size? but the program of the boards are the same?
The MiniMorlock and the Preadtor 2 are the same size. The MiniMorlock must be completely programmed to work on a gun, it's specifically made to put in any gun, so it needs more programming than most to work. Also, the MiniMorlock can work with both types of ACE, not sure about the Predator 2.

[CoolHand]

. . . . . . samples the trigger asynchronously which means fast fast fast. . . . .

This just means that it doesn't "sample" the trigger at all. In essence, its always listening for the switch to make contact (or break contact). If you link this voltage to a flag (high on, or low on, either one) in the software, when the switch breaks the circuit, the flag changes state, and the fire cycle is started. You'd need a good debounce circuit to make sure that you don't pick up a bunch of switch bounce though. Therein lies the "fast, fast, fast" :ninja: .

If switching trigger sample rates (or styles) magically increases your ROF, you need to increase your debounce setting. ;)

The old Morlocks worked like this too, someone's just invented a new buzz word to describe it (not that the way they check the switch is bad, mind you).

I personally think the Pred II is the best bang for the buck (for a single 'noid marker that is) out there right now.

I just find it amusing to see people comparing it to its nearly identical twin brother, and actually saying that one or the other is better. Basically, the only difference between the Pred II, and the Mini Morlock is the firmware on the ROM (and even that is (or will be) very similar in function).

As always, I could be totally full of crap though. :rofl:

[FragTek]

This just means that it doesn't "sample" the trigger at all. In essence, its always listening for the switch to make contact (or break contact). If you link this voltage to a flag (high on, or low on, either one) in the software, when the switch breaks the circuit, the flag changes state, and the fire cycle is started. You'd need a good debounce circuit to make sure that you don't pick up a bunch of switch bounce though. Therein lies the "fast, fast, fast" :ninja: .

If switching trigger sample rates (or styles) magically increases your ROF, you need to increase your debounce setting. ;)

The old Morlocks worked like this too, someone's just invented a new buzz word to describe it (not that the way they check the switch is bad, mind you).

I personally think the Pred II is the best bang for the buck (for a single 'noid marker that is) out there right now.

I just find it amusing to see people comparing it to its nearly identical twin brother, and actually saying that one or the other is better. Basically, the only difference between the Pred II, and the Mini Morlock is the firmware on the ROM (and even that is (or will be) very similar in function).

As always, I could be totally full of crap though. :rofl:

Yes, VERY fast fast fast. No more need for a processor to boost trigger checks :D

I was under the impression it could be used with dual noid markers as well, is it only setup to be used on single noid markers? *cant seem to find anything about that on the Pred info page, and I lost the link to the manual*

[CoolHand]

Yes, VERY fast fast fast. No more need for a processor to boost trigger checks :D

I was under the impression it could be used with dual noid markers as well, is it only setup to be used on single noid markers? *cant seem to find anything about that on the Pred info page, and I lost the link to the manual*

Yeah, you can, but you don't have as much control over the dwell for the second 'noid.

This is right from the Pred II manual:

Here's where it says it will run two 'noids.

http://www.logicpaintball.com/PredSolenoids.jpg

Here's the programming registers. Notice that the accessory/solenoid2 register has only four (4) settings for dwell. If you need finer dwell control (say for a cocker), then the Pred II is not the best solution.

http://www.logicpaintball.com/PredProgramRegisters.jpg

Later

:ninja:

[Sinistarr]

KM2, developed the Morlock, and its predacessors to use break beam or reflective eye technology years before paintball marker manufacturers decided to use it.

If you go to www.exarin.com you will see that KM2 and TAGSportz are now partners. The bottom line is that the very finest aftermarket board is manufactured by KM2 and developed with TAGSportz to offer you, the paintball players, the very best and most functional after market upgrades/options available today. It is only going to get better.

KM2 pioneered putting eyes in electonic markers years ago. This is proven technology, and is being refined every week.

The debounce is micro fine adjustable in .250ms steps. not 1ms steps as in most other boards out there. You can find the absolute ragged edge of bounce in your trigger. This can also help monitor the wear on your trigger switch, as the bounce will change with age and wear on the switch.

Doc Nickel has installed many morlocks. He has also installed and tested the Predator II and was impressed by the functionality and speed of the board. The Mini Morlock is the same board with slightly different software for dual solenoid markers.

The predator/predator II can use either break beam or reflective eyes. It is the fastest board out there right now. It's only limitation is the speed of your loader, and the limits of the pneumatics of the marker. The predator and morlock can outrun most markers out there. This is where you find the fastest, most durable markers made, and see where they fall short.

The mini morlock/predator morlock does all of the same things the predator can do, plus it has greater control over a second solenoid as is used in older shockers, rainmakers, and a few other dual solenoid markers.

OOPS.. :nono: removed the stupid part.

[CoolHand]

. . . . . The mini morlock/predator morlock does all of the same things the predator can do, plus it has greater control over a second solenoid as is used in older shockers, rainmakers, and a few other dual solenoid markers.

Oh, and btw, most cockers use 1 solenoid as far as I know. I may be wrong, but I have never seen a dual solenoid e-cocker. It is only moving 1 ram.

Yes, one ram, but also one electro-mechanical solenoid to trip the sear.

Now, I'm no ECocker expert, but the lowest one of the 4 dwell settings for the second solenoid on the Pred II is 250 ms, which would effectively reduce the ROF to 4bps (right? I'm fairly sure that 250 ms = .25 s).

What I do know for certain, is that if you have that solenoid activated too long, the sear won't catch the hammer lug when it comes back. With no recock of the hammer and spring, you've just had what is essentially an electronic short stroke.

Banana Man feels the love for the boys down at KM2 - :dance: :rofl:

Ya done good fellas. :hail:

Later

[shatter_storm]

Oh, and btw, most cockers use 1 solenoid as far as I know. I may be wrong, but I have never seen a dual solenoid e-cocker. It is only moving 1 ram.

Something has to trip the sear to release the hammer lug, and that something is a solenoid. Cockers have to use two solenoids to operate - they could only fire or cycle but not both without a second solenoid.

Nice promo speech for your board tho. [/sarcasm]

[Sinistarr]

Yes, one ram, but also one electro-mechanical solenoid to trip the sear.

Now, I'm no ECocker expert, but the lowest one of the 4 dwell settings for the second solenoid on the Pred II is 250 ms, which would effectively reduce the ROF to 4bps (right? I'm fairly sure that 250 ms = .25 s).

What I do know for certain, is that if you have that solenoid activated too long, the sear won't catch the hammer lug when it comes back. With no recock of the hammer and spring, you've just had what is essentially an electronic short stroke.

Banana Man feels the love for the boys down at KM2 - :dance: :rofl:

Ya done good fellas. :hail:

Later
Ok, I'll be quiet about cockers now... I stand corrected. (I knew there was something evil about cockers) :p :D
:cheers:

[shatter_storm]

Ok, I'll be quiet about cockers now... I stand corrected. (I knew there was something evil about cockers) :p :D
:cheers:

Yeah, cockers break every week for no other reason than to ruin someone's day. (Can you tell I've just finished techiing all sorts of cocker problems)

Sorry, had to release some stupid-people-mess-with-their-pneumatics-and-then-expect-me-to-fix-it rage. All better. :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

[Sinistarr]

Yeah, cockers break every week for no other reason than to ruin someone's day. (Can you tell I've just finished techiing all sorts of cocker problems)

Sorry, had to release some stupid-people-mess-with-their-pneumatics-and-then-expect-me-to-fix-it rage. All better. :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
I know your pain. I have owned cockers, and I have worked on a few too. Go have a beer and relax. :cheers:

[evan123]

Predator, great quality and the eyes are awesome. Go for the predator.

[Chris Nearchos]

Are there any other boards out there that would work better?