The problem with Mags

[Raven001]

This past weekend I took a trip down to my local magazine store and went through all their paintball magazines looking for Mags, either ads for them or pictures of players using them.

I found two E-mags. 1 in an ad for a power bar (not sure of the brand) and the other was for some monthly award to some kid somewhere (he holding and e-mag or x not sure).

I saw no adverts for mags by AGD and worse, only noticed one retailer even selling mags or at least advertising them for sale. No wonder Mags have slipped of the radar.

[Dayspring]

This is a technical problem how?

[eNder159]

...hmm well its been ooo say 3 -4 years since they fell out ya? ...and AGD seems fine with me ...

[_tMAN]

everyone know AGD is bankrupt

:rolleyes:

[mcdkid]

i saw the power bar add, its an x-mag

[Torbo]

and heres why. Mags began slipping from popular use years ago. In my opinion, because the emag was percieved to be old and slow, and most importantly because of negative reputaions. I believe emags came out before forcefed hoppers, and definatly before level 10. Therefore the chopping reputation that could come from outshooting a revvy stuck with the gun even after it was no longer an issue. Same with weight, they used to be heavy, and are so unnoticed that when lighter parts came out most people didnt care and had already moved past mags. because of this, AGD no longer has a presence in the tourney scene.

I think is interasting, because the move to senario is a good one, beacuse a mechanical gun is a very viable option there. However, the flagship marker now is the ULE custom, which is a tourney style marker. It still wont bring a resurgance of mags, becuase mechanical guns are rather uncommon in the tourney scene to begin with. The hair trigger could be a breakthrough, however i highly doubt that it will have a huge market. I think that existing mag owners and those who are experianced with mags will buy it. I think most will think ' why mess with all that mechanical stuff when i could just buy an electronic gun anyway?'


keep in mind that these are my perceptions and opinions.

[Chronobreak]

i think a ncie ule ad would be really nice but i think there waiting for the hair to return with FUULL FORCE!

[Carbon]

OMG the elves are on strike!

[ScatterPlot]

LOL, been a while since I heard anything about them elves! Oh, I just noticed something...
Carbon's post count is 666!!!!!!!!1111!!!ONEONEONE!!!12

[SpecialBlend2786]

LOL, been a while since I heard anything about them elves! Oh, I just noticed something...
Carbon's post count is 666!!!!!!!!1111!!!ONEONEONE!!!12

hahaha, i remember when my post was 666..I think i took a screenshot of it...

But anyway, I think an add for the RT-ULE or the Tac-one would be a great idea. I mean, they really are beautiful markers, and not extremely expensive either. People may look into mags further based on the new looks alone.

[Raven001]

This is a technical problem how?

I don't recall saying the problem with Mags was technical. I think I was trying to say marketing is the problem. How do you promote a product if you don't advertise it and the only parties knowledgeable about it are the ones that already own it?

If you open up any paintball publication, right next to the uber electro ads you'll see ads for mech cockers, spiders, tippmans etc. I understand that AGD is working on something even as we speak (and hopefully it will address the gas hog issue) but, if it is going scenario paintball as stated, why no ads for the Tac one? Why no ads for the mechanical ULE?

I don't claim that AGD is going bankrupt, I just claim that it has fallen from the top and does not seem to be making any visable effort to get back up there.

[openboater]

the best ad would be a pic with Tom's tongue in the breach of a level 10, but alas, somebody would try that with a level 7 or a spyder and cut their tongue off, and then sue AGD for their stupidity.

What we need is some legislation that makes all those other markers deemed unsafe, all but the LX, then everybody would need their markers recalled and and put idiot proof caps on all the opening's so you can't stick your fingers or tongues in the openings (or paintball either)

JUST KIDDING !!!

[gc82000]

There used to be ads in APG for the Tac-One and ule body. It is not the fact that they are not advertising it is more of you are late on reading up on them. I know that the Ule custom was featured in warpig.com and it got many good reviews.

[Raven001]

There used to be ads in APG for the Tac-One and ule body. It is not the fact that they are not advertising it is more of you are late on reading up on them. I know that the Ule custom was featured in warpig.com and it got many good reviews.

You may be right. I haven't looked at a paintball rag since 98. I did see the warpig article on the ULE and although I've always considered their articles to be soft ads, I'm not sure if they qualify ... ;)

and in case someone thinks I'm a mag basher, I've owned Mags since 94. Still have a powerfed classic mag, a mini mag and an RT ULE mag... :D

[frontrunner]

i kinda like the fact mags arn't main stream, the older players may not like them but they respect them and half the hype kids don't have a clue now days. most can tell you its an automag but few know agd or the history of them. but some like hype, i like knowing my mag is battle tested

[Hexis]

i kinda like the fact mags arn't main stream, the older players may not like them but they respect them and half the hype kids don't have a clue now days.

I think you will find that the older players have a lot of respect for Mags. Then again, my view of older and yours may be different. :) ..says the old fart (in paintball terms).

[lawman1380]

Not many marker manufacturers have a forum like ao. Just having this forum for advertisement keeps them plenty busy.

[Dayspring]

The reason I asked if this was a technical problem was because you posted this in the Tech Forum. As it has since been moved, it no longer is in the wrong forum. :rolleyes:


I don't recall saying the problem with Mags was technical. I think I was trying to say marketing is the problem. How do you promote a product if you don't advertise it and the only parties knowledgeable about it are the ones that already own it?

If you open up any paintball publication, right next to the uber electro ads you'll see ads for mech cockers, spiders, tippmans etc. I understand that AGD is working on something even as we speak (and hopefully it will address the gas hog issue) but, if it is going scenario paintball as stated, why no ads for the Tac one? Why no ads for the mechanical ULE?

I don't claim that AGD is going bankrupt, I just claim that it has fallen from the top and does not seem to be making any visable effort to get back up there.

[Raven001]

The reason I asked if this was a technical problem was because you posted this in the Tech Forum. As it has since been moved, it no longer is in the wrong forum. :rolleyes:

My bad :( not enough shut eye I guess...

[dynastyfan]

well my best analogy is you dont see ferrari ads everywhere but thats a household name but if you get a bunch of paintballers in a room and ask them who agd is they will more than likely know

[Torbo]

well my best analogy is you dont see ferrari ads everywhere but thats a household name but if you get a bunch of paintballers in a room and ask them who agd is they will more than likely know

right but if theyre tourney players very few/none will shoot mags. And i guess you could say 'yeah its because mags arnt all hype' which is to some extent true. Its actually because a mechanical gun is generally impractical, and because there are better guns out there that arnt that expensive either.

[scrumpy]

I don't think AGD should waste the money advertising at this point... A few advertisements in APG isn't going to change the fact that AGD markers aren't seen as tournament capable. I see assault 80 ads fairly often and yet that isn't seen anywhere in the tourny world. I think that we're going to have to wait for Tom's supermarker (hopefully).

[billmi]

well my best analogy is you dont see ferrari ads everywhere but thats a household name but if you get a bunch of paintballers in a room and ask them who agd is they will more than likely know

That depends on if it's just a bunch of paintballers, or a bunch of paintballers who have been in the sport since the mid 90s.

I taught a workshop in paintgun history and air/CO2 safety at two paintball skills camps my city ran this summer. The kids in the camp, ranging from one to 3 years experience, hadn't seen 'mags before and some of the counselors had, but some hadn't.

As to the topic that started this thread. What does it matter?

Some people buy a gun because they are wrapped up in trying to connect their personal worth to what they perceive as being popular. These people are never happy with a paintgun, regardless of how it performs, because there will always be that next trend to which they need to jump.

Other folks want a paintgun that performs well, and is reliable. For these folks, it doesn't matter how many ads there are for the paintgun, or how many other people are shooting the same kind of paintgun, it just matters that they can trust the paintgun to do its job, and can trust the manufacturer to support them if there is a problem.

[Chojin Man]

Some people buy a gun because they are wrapped up in trying to connect their personal worth to what they perceive as being popular. These people are never happy with a paintgun, regardless of how it performs, because there will always be that next trend to which they need to jump.

Other folks want a paintgun that performs well, and is reliable. For these folks, it doesn't matter how many ads there are for the paintgun, or how many other people are shooting the same kind of paintgun, it just matters that they can trust the paintgun to do its job, and can trust the manufacturer to support them if there is a problem.

wow you hit it right on the head with that. great post. http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[AGD]

My Man Bill! :dance:

AGD

[billmi]

Thanks :-)

It's very much the same thing as the personal computer scene in the 80s and early 90s.

I was a TI/994a user in the 80s (even designed a light pen and wrote a how to on it that ran in our club newsletter that went throughout the US), an Atari ST user in the late 80s to early 90s (though toward the end I mostly ran mac software on it for work,) and consulted for Commodore and then ended up selling and servicing video editing and production systems using Commodore Amigas in the early to mid 90s (and when I ran Mac software on the Amiga it was with an emulator writen by.... drumroll please..... Jim Drew.)

It was all the same exact thing - some people got the computers, used them, were productive on them either from a personal, or professional stand point making money and earning a living. Other people on the other hand, were more concerned with trying to make sure the whole rest of the world was using the same computer as them, belittling anyone who wasn't and complaining if they thought the manufacturer of their machine wasn't doing enough to sell more systems. Somehow they get their self-worth tied into what other people think of their computer.

Maybe it was a little moreso with the computers. I remember around 1990, when Orange Computer came out with a 286 daughtercard for the Mac, so you could run PC software on it. The daughter card cost more than you'd spend on a fully loaded 386 PC at the time - with monitor and keyboard. I asked one of the Mac zealots I worked with what the point would be (she'd just bought one) since you could buy a lot more PC with less money, and set the two computers side by side, each for their own tasks. The answer was, "But this puts it in my Macintosh!"

Obviously. :wow:

[Meph]

Well that's not exactly a problem with the automag, though. More or less the company itself, AGD, than the marker. A problem would be like previously stated, before warp feed or Halo the mag shoot too fast for the hoppers. It wasn't a problem in the marker design, but definately it's own problem. Solution was indeed warp feed (and in general faster-feeding hoppers). And now LVL10.

But you do have something with the no-advertising. It's not even so much the magazines. What is needed is the DISTRIBUTORS to be PUSHING mags! Even if a kid comes in saying "I want this marker" and points to an APG ad of a shocker. If the distributor can push the mag in a better light he can convince that kid to buy IT instead!

However that's not happening. Why? Well I'll go into my theories based on history (though chances are it's not 100% accurate, but from what I've gathered close enough). 1 being AGD's past. Back like to late 95 to 96, baby. What was happing in this time? AGD is king! If there's a tournament being won, chances are it's with a Mag. Throughout the early to mid 90's it was like this. Only "real" competition was the autococker, and people were more afraid of those "autochoppers." And even MORE afraid to tech on them!
From here AGD basically ignores our side of paintball with the "we're number one, we're fine" status and goes more into the development for military and police training. Great for them.

But now around this time.... baddam. The Angel is coming out. The PVI Shocker is coming out. Uh-oh. Now there's quasi-reliable electronics. Not first batch of Angels, they sucked. But soon the Angel LED was quickly rising up. Plus the PVI shocker would soon get its own bugs fixed, too. Gas hog, but still won't blow up now!

Plus other markers, your average stacked-tube blowback, were rising. And their clones. 96 saw the birth of the Spyder, we know where that has led to today. So with these, along with now electronic markers, you're having firepower equal to that of the mag, if not faster. Plus you don't have the "you're pulling the trigger wrong, that's why it's chopping" issues.

On top of all this AGD is still focusing on military, thinking still king, and side-shelving both development (like LVL10) and also 'ignoring' the distributors. They now start pushing STaBBs and Angels.

Up to today now AGD is still undercutting the dealers. In both at the events they would go to selling stuff for less than what a dealer's cost is. As well with now selling stuff from factory at dealer cost, too (like TacOne and RTP). So no dealer is going to push these products.

In the end what good is all the advertisements in the world if no proshop carries the products? If no store will even want to carry the products? Kids will go online, see it's cheaper factory direct than through the store and just buy from AGD directly. If their heart is set on an AGD product. However back to the pushing.... dealers are not pushing AGD so instead that heart set on AGD is now being shifted to Dragun, WGP, SP, et cetera.

So I don't think it's really mag ads, it's dealers need to be kept in the loop and used like dancing little puppets. Dance! Dance now! Dance or yee shall be smoted!

[shades]

The ad for AGD was next to the full page spread of the Palmer Blazer. Both of which are my personal favorites.

[magman#1]

maybe they don't advertise because they don't need to. if they sell(oversell just look at the backorder on some stuff) then why do you need to spend money to sell more of what you are selling out of.

[REDRT]

I do everything in my power to promote Mags at the field. Just this last Sunday at a local 3-man, I was asked what my Emag was, what LvL 10 was and how it works. Alot of :D when player struck their finger in the feed neck. Suprisingly enough alot of the younger players never even heard of mags :wow: . Who's fault is that? I gave them a small period of instruction on AGD history as best as I know it. I even let them play with them, again lots of wide :D . Maybe there are a few new mag owners on the rise. :clap: :dance: :clap:

[Bob_da_Splatman]

I just bought the new apg and bam right on the back cover a big ol' Tac-One decked in the prime.

Now where can i find a vid of tom's tounge in a Lx???

[Raven001]

As to the topic that started this thread. What does it matter?

Some people buy a gun because they are wrapped up in trying to connect their personal worth to what they perceive as being popular. These people are never happy with a paintgun, regardless of how it performs, because there will always be that next trend to which they need to jump.

Other folks want a paintgun that performs well, and is reliable. For these folks, it doesn't matter how many ads there are for the paintgun, or how many other people are shooting the same kind of paintgun, it just matters that they can trust the paintgun to do its job, and can trust the manufacturer to support them if there is a problem.

The viability of a company is dependent on public perception. If people think that the company is in trouble, then they won't buy its product no matter how reliable it is. If they don't even know that it exists, they certainly won't ask for its product.

Now I agree that if the latest paintball gods were winning tournaments with RT's that every little yard monkey and his pal would be plucking down their moms hard earned cash to by one. Thats human herd nature.

I would just like to see AGD continue to improve its product and keep it in the publics eye. I want to know that in 2014 i can still get o-rings for my mag and RT :p

[OmniM]

and the problem with mags in Europe atm is AGDE...