Dynaflow vs flatline vs AA -need opinions and reactivity

[trains are bad]

I need opinions from the tank owners! I need a tank (soon) because my 3000 flatline is only 3000 and i have never been able to get runaway, which I want.

I can buy a used 4500 flatline for $300 yikes

Dynaflow for 220

armageddon for around 200

I want light and compact (happy with my flatline that way) so I think the geddon is out.

I definately want reliabillty and reactiveness! So If you have any of the above tanks, or even have experience with them let me know how they are!

[ZAust]

from personal experience, the 4500 flatline is no more reactive than the 3000 flatline. to be honest, it was the only agd product that ive ever been unhappy with. i would go with the dynaflow. ive never come across a centerflag profuct that i didnt like.

[Creative Mayhem]

Speaking from personal experience I would have to say the Flatline and the AA regs are the best out ther for adjustability. The Flatline 4500 and the Apoc2k 4500 are virtually the same wieght(give or take a half an ounce;) ) I have never had more reliable regs and tanks than the AA or AGD. Im not bashing Dynaflow.. I'm just letting you know my view on the AA and AGD tanks/regs.

[trains are bad]

Yeah that's what I was afraid of. I want the most reactivity at the lowest pressure!

I cannot afford a maxflo.

I am also looking at a AA apoc.

[Z-man]

Though those 2 tanks are very good choices, I might suggest you have those DynaFlos a look too. I was thoroughly impressed at what they could do when I was making that QLoader video. They are light, and very reactive + they have a bleed line. I am considering them as my next tank.

[trains are bad]

Cool I think I'll get a dynaflow. I liked the looks of them but I was worried because they only go to 1000 and I was getting nothing out of my flatline at 1150. Dynaflow it is.

[Z-man]

and again the reg really dictates the input pressure you have to use. I had an old 3K AGD Flatline and was not able to get much rapid-fire out of it even when I cranked it to 1200psi. Now here I am with a Max-Flo and I can rapid-fire down around 900psi. Why? because no 2 regs perform the same and just becuase they can both be set to 900psi does not mean that they recharge the same rate or have the same flow rate.

[trains are bad]

Right that's what I thought I just needed confirmation that a dynaflow especially would provide good reactivity even though it doesn't go as high. Which is, actually, exactly what I want.

[magman007]

if you are running a lvl 10, i highly suggest the dyna or hyperflow tanks. the bleed line/ on off is a key part, as the valve will retain air and you will not be able to de gas the gun completely. this makes maintinence very hard, as you cannot take off the macroline, or tahe out the valve, without the dreadful flying on off assy.

or, you could just install a slide check, quick disconnect, or a pro connect, but they all look ugly on your sweet setup

[Z-man]

I dont think mine looks that bad do you? But you are right, given a choise I would have a tank with a built in bleed line than use a slide check or something like that.

[GT]

dynaflow owns all! they are awsome tanks and can be found on the cheap used

[Thordic]

I love my dynaflow. Its nice and compact, lightweight, and works like a champ.

I've gotten 1100 PSI output pressure, but mine is one of the older-style ones.

[vf-xx]

I've been happy with my 'Geddon. I've been running about 900psi REMOTE and that's just barely under the reactivity edge. I'm fairly certian that if it was on gun it'd be reactive. This is also WITH a ULT.

[JimInVA]

I, too, have been trying to make an "air decision". I'd orginally discounted the Dynaflow due to reading multiple comments about its output pressure going up as its input pressure went down. That implied that I could chrono with a full tank at 280 and then come off the field and find myself at something much higher. Any truth that this trait is present with the Dynaflow??

I want to go in at 3000 psi (or 4500) having set to 280 fps and come out with near 1000 psi remaining in the tank and still chrono at 280 when I check it.

Jim

[trex]

A dynaflow or hyperflow is definitely the way to go if your primary concern is reactivity/sweet-spotting. I went from flatline to hyperflow (one without bleed) to my current dynaflow. Was never able to get a real consistent sweet spot with flatline, but had no problem with hyper or dyna. Never used an armageddon, so I can't say on that one. Good luck!

trex

[Richter]

I, too, have been trying to make an "air decision". I'd orginally discounted the Dynaflow due to reading multiple comments about its output pressure going up as its input pressure went down. That implied that I could chrono with a full tank at 280 and then come off the field and find myself at something much higher. Any truth that this trait is present with the Dynaflow??

I want to go in at 3000 psi (or 4500) having set to 280 fps and come out with near 1000 psi remaining in the tank and still chrono at 280 when I check it.

Jim
i remember when the dynaflows first came out allot of people bought because they were light. I have seen problems with velocity spikes with dynaflows; if i remember correctly they said to turn down the input pressure to releive some of the spiking issues. (beacuse they flow so well you don't need the input pressure :rolleyes: ). I think their release said that the recommended input pressure to an angel was to drop the pressure form 600 to 400psi.

Went searching for that release and i can't find anywhere when i do a search. (that what's interesting about the interent; usually 3-5 year old information is long gone.

I remember playing the LA open; borrowed a buddies angel with a dynaflow: went on at 289 came off a 311! :cry:

Check out pbreview.com and people willl tell you the same thing: when the tank gets low the pressure spikes! (some might tell you this happens with many tanks but i think it is amplified with the dynaflows)

That's just my opinion though...

[trains are bad]

That implied that I could chrono with a full tank at 280 and then come off the field and find myself at something much higher.

In my experience input pressure does not significantly effect velocity. But if the pressure did go up, you might go too reactive.

[Thordic]

I chronied on and off the field every game at IAO. My velocity was +/- 5 all day long. Dynaflow gave me no issues as the tank pressure changed.

[JimInVA]

If I put together the responses (and yes, I'm making some assumptions)...

The dynaflow does have an output fluctutation (slightly upwards as tank pressure lowers) but due to the internal workings of the TAC-ONE, such pressure change affects reactivity rather than fps. On other markers, those more sensitive to pressure changes, such change does affect fps.

Is this a reasonable conclusion or am I still missing the picture?

Jim

[GT]

If I put together the responses (and yes, I'm making some assumptions)...

The dynaflow does have an output fluctutation (slightly upwards as tank pressure lowers) but due to the internal workings of the TAC-ONE, such pressure change affects reactivity rather than fps. On other markers, those more sensitive to pressure changes, such change does affect fps.

Is this a reasonable conclusion or am I still missing the picture?

Jim


Dynaflow doesnot increase pressure as the tank presure lowers. That doesnt make any sense. if the your output is set at 600psi and your tank begins to drop below 600, there is no way for the dyan to compensate for the loss in pressure. Sorry but when you tank is empty its empty, and thus requires a "refill." :rofl:

[JimInVA]

I do understand that part... but what I've read (and I'm the first to understand that you can't believe ALL you read... hence these questions), as the dynaflow tank pressure moves from full to (say) 1300 psi remaining (just made up a number for reference) that the output pressure from the regulator (assume 900psi at full tank) begins to creep upwards. Is it fair to suggest that a regulator is not uniform in its ability to regulate its output across ALL pressure ranges above its set output?

I'm less concerned with whether it moves or not than I am on the affect it has on FPS as I walk of the field with only 1300 psi left in my tank and I have to again chrono. I don't want to find that my 280 going in is now 310 coming out.

Jim

[JimInVA]

Sorry but when you tank is empty its empty, and thus requires a "refill." :rofl:

I have to admit that I DID smile at this!!

[Z-man]

Dynaflow tank performance. 31cps systained. Notice the dial does not deviate from its little cycle? Looks rock solid to me.

http://homepage.mac.com/mvetter/.Movies/Viking_Dyndaflow.mov QuickTime MPEG-4

[JimInVA]

I LOVE pictures!!

Ran it through and then paused it before the last burst of fire and after the last burst. Here's what I see:

Output pressure before: 780
Output pressure after: 840

So perhaps this does confirm that output creeps up (or that gauges lie)

Jim

[Shane-O-Mac]

Ok kiddies!, little lesson from your ol unka Shane-O

ALL primary and secondary regs raise output pressure as pressure goes down. This is NORMAL. the only tank that i have seen be completely solid was the ORIGINAL PVI Warrior 200 (then Sp redid it into the max-flow and ruined it) Thats why many companies are building "Balanced" primary systems. they are trying to reduce the decay curve of the system. Thats why it is important to double regulate ANY gun. BUT, most tanks wont change more 50-100 psi output (higher) and most mags wont go into total reactivity with that low of a change.

An AA Armageddon will have a decay curve of about 15-20 psi depending on how clean and lubricated it is. Thats why it is an excellant reg. And if you remove the bottle, it will bleed all air out of the system.

And now you know the REST of the story...................


Shane-O

[JimInVA]

And I feel like a little "kiddo" when it comes to these matters. THANK YOU Unka Shane-O for your wise comment!

I'm beginning to feel as if I've commandeered this member's thread... and that was not my intent. I have more questions and comments and will move them back to an earlier thread I started in the "tech" area. Thanks all... and sorry Trains Are Bad...

Jim

My original thread... (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147157)

[Steelrat]

Correct me if Im wrong, but I think the two main characteristics of a tank reg are flow and recharge. Now, the dynaflow works great with my viking (the one in that video) because it flows well. Now, I believe the reactivity of a mag is determined more by the recharge rate than flow, and Im pretty sure the AA recharges better. But unless you plan on "sweetspotting" your gun all the time, you wont notice a difference, and the dyna is a smaller and lighter tank. Plus, its very user-servicable, and centerflag has good customer service. Not that AA doesnt, but I can't speak to that, as I don't own one of their tanks.

[DK1]

I must say, my geddons were quite a bit better than my maxflows have been for recharge. The AA's provided a lot more reactivity per psi. The maxflow seemed a bit more consistent on some of the guns I used it on, especially my bushmaster. The only gun I tried both types of tanks on was the mag, and I never really expected the mag to be that consistent anyway (which is wasn't).

Anyway, I'd personally take the geddon over the 'flo.

Does anyone know what ever happened to the "new" geddon that was made over in the UK? Did they ever get over here? They were supposed to be a lot lighter and such.... and they looked pretty cool. I know they cost one arm, a tibia, and part of a liver to buy over there and have shipped...

Shane-o?

DK1

[Shane-O-Mac]

Abbadon: (new geddon) they are hoping to get some issuses with machining straightened out before releaseing them here in the USA. hopefully soon....................


Steel rat: the best thing about a geddon is, that i can change the 2 carrier o-rings in the geddon (the only ones that affect peformance) in under 1 minute in a pinch (i.e. no cleaning) and completely rebuild, clean, and lube one in under 5 minutes without removing the system from the gun.

Shane-O