Is the bolt spring a major contribution

[Carbon]

to the mag's high operating pressure and inneficiency?

Could the bolt springs compression rate be lightened enought to relliably return the bolt?

[Snertz]

Well, coupled with a lighter bolt, it should theoretically return at the same rate while getting better efficiency numbers..I think..More to ponder about when I get some sleep..

You need to take into account the volume that you have to work with, and the pressure in that chamber that is req'd to propel a ball to 300 fps. Since volume does not change, only pressure may affect the fps of the ball, granted that nothing is changed.

For the sake of this experiment, we will allow this to be a constant, and req the same amount of energy per shot, and allow the fps to be 300fps every shot. Also is the rate at which the bolt must be returned to maintain a certain rof; This will also be a constant too, as it makes our lives easier. The resitance that the bolt experiences will also remain a constant, since every ball that is fired must be chambered first (duh!)

So above this is the force that must be exerted to move the bolt and overcome the pressure of the spring. Hence there is a higher prssure in the bolt chamber. And thus, a lighter bolt and spring tension combo should yeild better numbers in terms of efficiency, due to the lower req'd energy/ air pressure required in moving the bolt.

The question is how much more efficient would this change result in. And how much of a change in tension and overall weight would there have to be. Also you need to take into account other forms of drag on the bolt itself.

As for the lvl 7 bolt, the stem sealing may or may not be perfect, more likely the later, but this can be countered with a bolt spacer kit. Blow-by or excess drag is the problem in this case.

On the lvl 10 you have an oring that is dragging on the bolt stem, and may cause unnecessary drag, along with a venting port in the stem. This explains the lower efficiency in todays current available setup. This can be countered, but with a more elaborate change, involving oring/carrier sizing and material, and a change in porting of the valve stem, which is all combined with the aformentioned changes.

Now you can't change one thing without the other, i.e. ligther spring with current bolt, as that will lower the capable rof of the marker. As for lightening the bolt with the stock spring, that would result in only an increase in possible rof, and perhaps less kick, but for this experiment, we're looking to changing the efficiency of the gun, and only a change in spring tension would yeild a large enough return.

Now then, who would like to custom wind a lighter spring, and mill a bolt out of Ti for me (lvl 7 for ease) ? :p

Caffine rush at 4am :dance:

Ps. If the spring and bolt are lightened, in tension and weight respectively, then it also yeilds another positive thing, and that is that the bolt won't be hitting the balls (haha no pun intended) with as much force, since it isn't imparting as much direct energy. P=MV where P is Potential energy, M is mass, and V is velocity of bolt, and with Velocity (directly related to rate at which the bolt must return) is constant, and Mass is a constant (which is lower than a normal bolt) we get a lower energy potential that is imparted on the ball.

Hope I made some sense, time to try it on my emag.. :ninja: Did I leave anything out?

[Tbone]

Caffine rush at 4am :dance:


:rofl:

[RRfireblade]

A lighter bolt spring........Tom,why didn't you think of that. :D

[paint magnet]

Automags are the original 'low pressure' guns ;)

[PzYcO]

for the "bolt spring efficency" i just think of the impulse and the stock/RIP Valve comparsion.

The stock vavlve uses the huge spring to return while the rip valve does not. the stock valve runs about 180 psi , the rip valve has to run lower than 150 psi..

[Jonneh]

As I understand it, with lx, the tradeoff with the spring is between the bolts force on an improperly fed ball, and air efficiency. While a longer, spring would be exerting more force back on the bolt, there is greater chance it will just ping off a paintball, of course to counter the spring on the first place a greater ammount of air is required.
Damn these physics, it makes everything so complicated.

[punkncat]

I guess if running out of air at 1000 PSI is the cost for all the other good things about my Mag.....I can live with it.

Never any chops , never get my eyes "gooed" with paint , never run out of batteries , never burn up a board , works great off a revi ........

Inefficiency is a small price to pay.

[paint magnet]

I don't think we're all on the same page here...

Are we talking about using a lighter spring with level 7 or level 10?

And if a lighter spring (level 7) would let you lower operating pressure, then older guns with worn-out (and therefore lighter) springs would run at lower pressures.

[50 cal]

Isn't it the valve itself that needs the higher pressure? Doesn't seem like the outgoing air burst or bolt return would have anything to do with the valve working at a set lower pressure.