PDA

View Full Version : BlackVCG---PTP Micro E-Mag troubles



elprup
08-08-2004, 12:19 AM
I was going to take this to PM's, but I figured others could benefit from your or anyone else's solution (so you better have one!). Anyway, word on the street is you can make micro e-mags sing again. Here's my story:

I bought the marker with just over 4200 shots. The firmware is 1.37 (probably irrelevant). I purchased a lvl 10 bolt and installed it, all before firing the marker. I was able to play with it for a session and a half. During the half session it started leaking down the barrel a little. Later on, it wouldn't shoot over 260 no matter what I threw at it. I swapped springs to no avail and also maxed the velocity adjustment. It still shot low and leaked down the barrel. I tried to fix it the following week without success. Also, my Max-Flo tank started leaking as well, so I gave up on my setup for a year until recently.
A couple of months ago I fixed my tank leak.

[[[IMPORTANT SIDEBAR for the paintball community: My Max-Flo was leaking at the on/off. The o-ring I took out of the regulator is a size bigger than what comes in the SP rebuild kit (size in rebuild kit is an 003 when it should be an 004---shame on you Smart Parts). Needless to say I put the o-ring from the kit in and it leaked, but not to my suprise. Then one day I saw what I thought was the correct size in an Automag RT o-ring kit and bought the kit. Woo-hoo it was! On/off leak was then fixed. The moral of the story is to buy an on/off o-ring for the Retro Valve found here: http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=111&categoryID=23 This is really the o-ring you need for the on/off on the Max-Flo regulator, not the one in the manufacturer's rebuild kit...again, {rubbing fingers} shame, shame, shame.]]]

Back on topic...I then proceeded to fix my marker. I got the lvl 10 primed, tuned, and ready. Hmmm, still no go. I diassembled my Emag micro 2000 valve and cleaned it up per your gracious valve inspection instructions. BTW, I'm very appreciative that you posted that information. Everything was in order except the few o-rings that you mentioned pick up the most dirt. I cleaned everything and reassembled. Yes I use KC Trouble Free oil, thank you for asking.

I gassed up the marker and once again it didn't cycle. I'm beyond annoyed at this point, so I cranked up my Max-Flo to 1200 (isn't that why they call it Max-Flo, heh?) and turned the velocity adjustment all the way up. This, in fact, coaxed some cycles out of my gun. I stuck a rolled dollar bill in the feedneck. The lvl 10 was working properly. At this stage my memory is a little hazy, but I think that It would only fire a handful of times and would then proceed to get stubborn with some pffffft's. I guess I would describe it as the lvl 10 was kicking in as I dry fired (this whole story is based on dry firing, no paint was used). Sometimes it would quit firing alltogether after a few successful cycles. I would then wait a few seconds and it would fire a few times again.

This is all the detailed information that I can provide to assist your diagnosis. So, what should I take two of and email you in the morning?

elprup
08-08-2004, 12:31 AM
Wouldn't you know it, I forgot a couple of things. The lvl 10 bolt measured the correct 2.010, but interestingly, the on/off pin measured .690 which isn't too close to the .670-.675 range with respect to pnuematic tolerances. I also have a .712 pin in my possession, but I don't want to start grinding if this isn't the problem. Like I said before, the marker did work at one time, so I don't see how it could all of a sudden be the on/off pin's fault. I have a hypothesis which I have yet to test, but I'm not going to mention it yet so that I don't bias your diagnosis. TIA.

athomas
08-08-2004, 09:29 AM
Make sure all the parts are in place. The .690" on/off pin seems like a retro micromag pin. The micro-emag pin is usually ~.675" but the .690" pin should still work. Make sure the quad o-ring is in place rather than the standard on/off top o-ring. Remove all shims from the level 10 setup to start and put in the shortest bolt spring. Use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. Check the detent on the side of the body. If it is stiff, it could interfer with the bolt movement.

BlackVCG
08-09-2004, 12:24 AM
Other than the things athomas mentioned...

Rail bushing in place?

Micro E-Mag exclusive shim between the body and frame in place?

Field strip screw tightened by hand or wrench?

Input pressure FOR SURE >700psi?

elprup
08-09-2004, 09:10 PM
The field strip screw was tightened by hand (it's not a careless I-don't-care-enough tight...it's tight). I've only had the valve out, so nothing is different about the marker from when it did work.

How about this thought: air supply. Perhaps the filter is clogged in the Max-Flo regulator.

BlackVCG
08-10-2004, 01:55 AM
That's possible. The Max-Flo does have that micro-fine mesh tube filter in the system. It's kinda rare for air systems to get that filled with junk that they'd cause such a problem. Unless of course you don't use a fill nipple cap. :mad: :nono: ;)

Flossabe
08-10-2004, 02:12 AM
I have worked on micro emags for a while and what I have found is that the AGD tolerences dont necessarely work with the PTP guns because of the milling process and hand building that PTP does just doesent get to the tolerences that AGD has. What this means it you may need to change out your On/Off pin and this may be the only problem, i have had this as well, i suggest if you are mechinicaly inclined enough, to purchase a .750 on/off pin and sanding or grinding it down to .715, see if it works then, if it cycles easaly but you dont get a verry fast rate of fire then take it down one ot two thousandth of an inch more and try it then, if it doesen cycle at all still or your ROF doesent increase at all take it down to .710 and do the same thing, just keep comming down .001" at a time, but be careful not to go to much or not to heat the pin up to much as it will break easily, you might want to grab 3 pins so you have extreas encase you mill it to far or you break one. AGD sends out the Micro E-mags with a .690 in them, this was the case of mine and i had to do this to get it working but after i did it works fine, this isint nessaserly the problem but the on/off length of the Micro E-mags is so if it doesent fix this problem it could fix another.

Good luck on the fix.

Flossabe

elprup
08-10-2004, 11:27 PM
Thanks for your replies. Well, I have a .712 pin I could sacrifice. I just don't understand why it would work and then all of a sudden not. Also, what is happening to make the marker fire only when I crank the regulator to 1200psi?

About the Max-Flo filter...I too thought it would take alot of dirt to inhibit flow. I don't know, I'm just grasping for possibilities.

I'll have to buy some fittings and a steel braided line with a screw-in tank adapter on the end so I can test it with my Nitro Duck X-Stream tank.

Tracker
08-11-2004, 03:07 PM
your main spring, its its the big huge silver one you may need to clip it. i had put the big unclipped spring in my x, because hey i got a flatline now, i can run it as the super high pressures, unfortunatly the spring was so strong, it wasnt letting the marker fire at all, of i had to clip about halfway into the firstcoil past the end, and now i have no problems

i turned my gun up to 1300 psiand it would shoot but not very reliably

hope this helps

Tracker

elprup
08-11-2004, 08:55 PM
I've tried all four springs, 3 lvl 10 and stock. It didn't change anything.

Could my problem be the fault of the regulator piston?

Flossabe
08-12-2004, 03:33 AM
Yea I dont realy dont know why it would do it either but that is what mine did as well when i got it back from AGD, i took it out to the field and shot at least a 68/3000 through it and went to adjust some things at home and it would never fire again and ended up being the on off pin, Try the .712 like it is first and if it is slow cycling then bring it down some i think mine is at .703 but they all are probly a little difrent.

elprup
08-12-2004, 10:22 PM
Alright, thanks Flossabe. You've renewed my hope.

Flossabe
08-14-2004, 02:20 AM
Let me know how it turns out, another thing to watch is the adjustment of the plunger, you can get some realy good cycle rates if you adjust it right, just play around with it and see what you can do, and locktite, blue i think is the right color, your sear pin.

BlackVCG
08-14-2004, 02:28 AM
The solenoid plunger is not an "adjustable" setting. Set it to the tolerance length of 3.010" and leave it. The same goes for the trigger rod length.

Use Green "wicking" Loctite on these threads.