About Paintchecks...?

[punkncat]

When you call a paintcheck , do you play on , or wait for the ref to clear you to continue to play?

The field I play we (refs) have for a long time discouraged wiping by encouraging players to call for a paintcheck. If they get hit somewhere they can't see , or are unclear as to whether it constitutes spray , whatever ...we have them holler paintcheck and continue to play until we get there to make a call. Instead of doing a touch test for themselves to see if it broke or not , making it easy to wipe. Most of the time if you are having to call paintcheck you are in a tight spot , the other team often advancing on you , something like that. So instead of interupting the flow of play we do as I stated.

A question came up about it today though. One guy got hit and called a paintcheck. After the call , but before the ref got there , the other guy got hit by the person who called the ref. It turned out that the ref called the 1st guy out on a hit. The 2nd guy then said he shouldn't be out cause he got hit by what was technically a dead player.

What do you think? What happens at your field concerning paintchecks?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

At the fields I go to, if the refs are even actively participating, they usually let us play on until we find a hit. You shouldnt have to ply around the ref, he/she should ply around you. The touch test usually works if the people playing are fair and honest. I almost always call myself out, when I dont I call a ref to check.

[punkncat]

Well I won't go so far as to say that anyone at the field isn't honest or playing fair , but instead of even having the question come up , we would rather them not check themselves.

Not that I encouraging intentional playing on. I mean if you see you are out then go out , but if its borderline or unable to be seen , thats what Refs are for.

[deathstalker]

When I call a paintcheck on myself, I consider myself a neutral player and try to stay out of sight behind my bunker until the ref gets there. However, if I get shot while waiting for the ref and I know it's a legit hit, I'll call myself out. I play only recball so knowing the next game starts in 15 minutes, I don't make a big deal if I'm out or not and the other players have no knowledge that I'm not actively participating while waiting for a check.

[mixwell2]

My two cents

When I am playing or refing I play on even when the ref is actually checking me. I as well as the refs I know let players play on. A good ref can check you and not "get in the way"

As far as that player not thinking he should have been pulled the rule is if a ref pulls you then you are out...end of story. you can try and argue it after the game but if you are pulled you are pulled. Besides if it is a rec game then it really is not worth arguing. I had I guy who kept calling a paint check on me two weeks ago at S.C. I played on while the ref checked me but the guy kept yelling like a baby to the point where his whole body kept coming out....well it did not take long for a head shot. Funny thing is if he stayed tight and just played he had enough people crossing me up that he would have eventually got me.

[kybluemag]

The only time i ever request a paintcheck is if i feel a hit on my back or another non-visible area. Since im shooting forward and the ref is behind me checking my back i keep playing.

Only reason i encourage people to keep on playing is because if you sit behind your bunker while getting checked too much can happen on the field that you arent aware of.

[Big_Chops]

your are not neutral when u call a paint check. your still in the game, which would mean if your hit while the ref is checking you your out. cus a lot of times when people are under fire they call for a paint check just to get away from the paint

[xmetal2001]

The way your field does things, and the call the ref made in that situation is how i would handle things. But i'm probably partial since i probably used to ref at the field your talking about :)

[Jeffy-CanCon]

The paintcheck is a good idea. It is also smart to allow the player to continue playing while the check is happening.

But the guy shot out by the player being checked should have been considered live. Though that's really hard to control.

[Enemy]

i always let them play on! but when im playing if im up against newer kids ill sit and wait for one of the refs to get there if not then i check myself. what sux is i have been gone alot and the other night i realized that the refing has gone way down hill to the point where this guy tried to fight me after i bunkered him cuz i know i shot him in the hopper i mean its hard to miss the spray that came off of the hopper of this guy which was a good foot taller than any bunker out there he claimed his hopper was clear!! i got sick of him so i bunkered him. if a ref had checked him they would have noticed that the side of his head had been hit twice!! and the whole thing avoided!

[vonort]

A lot of times when I call for a check on myselft what I do is, try and keep the other guy from advancing on me without eliminating him. Basically supression fire to keep him in while the ref checks me. If the ref calls me clean then I continue in normal play. And most of the time I have not been put at a disadvantage. Since I kept my veiw of the feild and did not allow someone to advance. If I'm called out then no harm done since I did not eliminate another player. Technically if you call a check on your self the ref is NOT suppose to call you neutral. Only call a player neutral if the check is requested from another player.

[tribalman]

when i'm playing recball at some of the fields i go to, there is only 1 ref on the field. and he never moves, so if i'm hit on the arm,leg, any place i can see and there is no hit, i keep playing, if it breaks, i go out. if its on my pack or head. i call myself out, even if it is a bounce. it keeps the game a lot more relaxed if people know you are not cheating so they don't cheat.

[cphilip]

A player calling paintcheck is not neutral unless the referee calls him neutral. And a referee is supposed to avoid if at all possible calling a player neutral.

A player calling paintcheck has reason to believe he might be out... but cannot verify himself. So he is supposed to cease all agressive manuvering. No firing nor moving up. Least he turn out to be out. By the rules....

How you do it at your field is one thing. The NPPL rules do not allow him to continue to play on as such. He is sort of in limbo land. This is why you want to paintcheck your own players and communicate to them. You are not garanteed a paintcheck by a Ref. You are still in play. Your taking your chances.

[deathstalker]

Is all this talk of "neutrality" because of my statement? If so, it appears people don't quite understand my intention. I don't play in tournaments and I don't care about winning and losing. That also means I am unfamiliar with the tournament definition of "neutral player". I play paintball to have fun. I think that taking myself out of play when waiting for a paintcheck is a fair and honest thing to do, unlike the pre-pubescent teenagers who just tell me to wipe it off my head, pack, or side of my mask. The refs at my home field are usually very quick to respond to calls for checks so I'm not out of the action for long.

[cphilip]

Is all this talk of "neutrality" because of my statement? If so, it appears people don't quite understand my intention. I don't play in tournaments and I don't care about winning and losing. That also means I am unfamiliar with the tournament definition of "neutral player". I play paintball to have fun. I think that taking myself out of play when waiting for a paintcheck is a fair and honest thing to do, unlike the pre-pubescent teenagers who just tell me to wipe it off my head, pack, or side of my mask. The refs at my home field are usually very quick to respond to calls for checks so I'm not out of the action for long.


I don't think its because of your statement but its part of the discussion and must be. At least so people know self imposed ceasing of agressive play is not the same things as Neutral.

Neutral is only when a Ref has to do so to see a difficult spot to make a call. And you cannot be eliminated if your are hit during Official Neutral.

If you cease playing so as to determine a non verifiable hit you are still capable of being hit and put out. But you are right and it is the right thing to do. But that non verifiable hit can be verified or not by your own teammate or a ref. Calling for paintcheck sort of is a declaration you are in limbo and need some help to make a call. Its the sportsmanlike way to play. In the mean time while your seeking help to determine if you are out or not then sportsmanship would dictate you not play on and that you tuck in and stay put until you can be cleared or called out. Its the right thing to do.

[punkncat]

Phil ,
Thats a good clarification of the rules on that subject. I do wonder about something though.
If you are in limbo while waiting on the check , you are not allowed to take shots on people moving to better their postion on you while you are being checked ?

There are muddy points with both ways. I play and ref Rec Ball so there is nothing really on the line , but we strive to make the best experiance we can for all involved.

In reply to other comments I have seen made. As refs we don't interfere with the pace of the game if at all possible."Neutral" player is rarely called for anything. We generally ref smaller groups at one time , or with multiple refs , so we are quick to be there for checks and whatnot. We generally keep a good eye on as much of the field as possible at all times during gameplay and are very involved in the reffing process. We are getting "paid" to be there so we do as good a job as we can.

[jdev]

regardless of how the refs call this at the field...

if I have to call a paint check on myself. I stop firing my marker, call for check, and wait to be checked. during the time it takes me to be checked however, I will look out my bunker to keep an eye on player movement, I do play back afterall, and that is my responsibility. if im not hit, ill go right back to playing. if it comes down to a do or die moment however, I.E I am at risk of being bunkered, the ref better hope hes quick enough to get out of my way.

[cphilip]

Phil ,
Thats a good clarification of the rules on that subject. I do wonder about something though.
If you are in limbo while waiting on the check , you are not allowed to take shots on people moving to better their postion on you while you are being checked ?

There are muddy points with both ways. I play and ref Rec Ball so there is nothing really on the line , but we strive to make the best experiance we can for all involved.



this is the Delema isn't it? It depends on how long it takes to get checked I suppose.... and you should be able to get a check from a teamate even. And then if its taking forever and someone decides to take a move on you because they see its taking forever I guess you have to make a decission and go with it don't you? Very difficult but I would eventually if I had exahausted all ways to get checked then I might decided to play and take my chances later on...

[TheShark]

When I reffed the player was not neutral until the ref got to him to do the check. At that point the ref would call neutral and players could not longer shoot at him, nor could the player return fire. Additionally, during a paintcheck (once the ref got there) opposing players were NOT allowed to advance on the player until the paintcheck was finished.

I reffed rec ball only so I cannot speak of tourney reffing.

[frontrunner]

i'm with punkcat i play to have fun ..... there are alot of wippers at my field trying to win i try not to let this baffect me while seeing how many times i can shoot them (i know they feel it) and that works for me. i aslo feel a hit is a hit and honest players really don't need paint checks unless they taker one to a park or something

[PaintballSmurf13]

Just keep playin..... when i ref and check a guy i tell him to keep playin, as i haven't called them nuetral... and i only call them nuetral when i have to get close or touch their harness to check it or something...
-Ryan

[68magOwner]

rec ball-if im being checked, i keep looking around, and i if can hit someone (playing sloppy or moving) then i will, but dont lane or shoot without knowing im going to get someone
tourney- keep playing as usual while being checked

sidenot- if someone is being checked i do not stop for them, and often use that time to my advantage and move while tehre distracted by a ref, so, i expect other players to do the same and that is how i justify playing on during a check

[RingOfScale]

way it works at SCP is :

You call paint check.
Ref calls you neutral ( u stop shooting, people stop shooting at you )
Ref either calls u in or out, and play ( or at least play including you ) resumes

[Number13]

If you only play recball, play like you would want the other team to play against you durring a paintcheck - the Golden Rule is the only one that really applies for recballers.

Tournament players, and players practicing for tournaments, are not out of a game if they call a paintcheck on themselves and do not need to stop aggresive play. When a player calls "paintcheck", they are asking for the nearest ref to look them over for a hit. They are NOT in ANYWAY out of the game for saying "paintcheck". If the player is found to have an obvious hit and, as in the original situation, they have eliminated another player while being checked, then the player first eliminated and being checked - by NPPL rules - must be counted as eliminated as well as two of his teammates for having materially altered the outcome of the game while playing on. The oposing player who was hit is still out. If, however, the hit was unobvious, then the original player being checked will be pulled and the team not penalised and the oposing player who was subsequently hit will also be out.

Source:
NPPL Official Rule Book - 2004

Highlights:
26. Paint Checks
26.01 Paint checks are performed by referees for the purpose of determining if a paintball has
broken on and marked a player.
26.02 Paint checks are performed by a referee when the referee has observed a player taking
shots, or when shots are directed into an area occupied by a player that the referee cannot
directly observe, when the physical location that a paintball may have broken on is not visible to
the referee, or when the referee is directed to do so by another referee.
26.03 Referees may, but are under no obligation to, make a paint check after a player has
requested one.

28. Obvious Hits
28.06 Players with obvious hits in areas which are not easily verifiable, such as the back, may
continue to play, but must immediately call on a teammate who can easily verify whether or not
the paintball broke to indicate whether or not such player was eliminated. The teammate must
respond immediately, and if the hit player was eliminated, he must cease play, signal his
elimination and exit the field Failure to call on such teammate for verification or failure of such
teammate to respond immediately constitutes playing on by the hit player. If no such teammate is
available for verification, such player may continue to play, but must immediately call for a paint
check by a field judge. Failure to call for such a paint check immediately will constitute playing on
by such player.

29. Unobvious Hits
29.01 Un-obvious hits are those which impact and break on player’s harnesses & tubes located
on players back. Any part of the harness located in front players hips are considered obvious.
29.02 Players with un-obvious hits will be eliminated but will not be penalized.
29.03 Should a player with an un-obvious hit become aware, through his/her own actions or
through information provided by teammates that he has been validly marked, such hit at such time shall then be deemed to constitute and shall constitute an obvious hit.

34. Playing On
34.01 Playing on entails continuing to act as a player in the game after being eliminated. Playing
on includes, but is not limited to, continuing to shoot or otherwise engage the opposition,
continuing to move, except with respect to exiting the field by the most direct route or at the
direction of a referee, talking, signaling or otherwise communicating, either to a referee, opposing
players or teammates, except that a player may say, “Hit” or, “Out” or something to that effect
once, impeding the progress of opposition players or a referee, hampering a referee in making a
paint check or a call, discharging or degassing the marker or providing teammates with paintballs
or equipment.
34.02 The penalty for playing on is the removal of a teammate in a one-for-one call, unless in the
referee’s opinion such playing on has materially influenced the course of the game giving the
offending player’s team an advantage, in which case the penalty for playing on is the removal of
two teammates in a two-for-one call.