AGD - auto response and scenarios?

[Skoad]

Since you guys have made a stride into scenarios I was thinking....Since full auto and burst modes are sometimes allowed, why not bring back your old favorite autoresponse trigger?

I'm not sure on the rules on it but I though it would fit under the burst (or zip as they call it in the scenario rules) fire category.

I don't know how hard/expensive it would be but i remember seeing pictures of someone's modified benchmark frame:

http://www.g3pb.com/f_m_frame1.jpg
http://www.g3pb.com/f_m_sear2.jpg


Again I don't know exactly how proline's response frame worked as I cannot find pictures of the insides anywhere.

I do remember you talking about how you loved yours :)

[MindJob]

AGDJON had one Saturday at AO-NJ4 on his RTP. It was without a doubt the fastest gun on the field.

[Skoad]

I've never seen one actually shoot (besides video compliments of www.webdogradio.com http://www.webdogradio.us/shorts/Kaye.wmv ) but I remember Tom saying:



I absoulutely LOVED and ADORED that gun! I still have it in that exact configuration and it remains my favorite gun of all time. Why? Because its the fastest shooting MECHANICAL gun on the planet. It has controllable firing rate, you can dial the BPS out the barrel like a volume control because it's so easy to shoot. And last but not least it is absoulutely, positively, unstopably the fastest two shot snap shooter in existence.

That gun was TWICE as fast as all the other guns of its day. That would be like taking the field now with a 22 BPS Angel and going to play rec ball. I could mow the lawn with that gun! We played woods ball and if you hid behind bushes...I could just cut a hole through and get you. If you hid behind a tree I could pound you so bad you just took cover until I walked up still shooting and did you.

The only reason I put it down was because they made it illegal. Damn I miss that gun...

AGD

[tyrion2323]

With such a funky sear/trigger rod, would you be able to get reactivity?

I can go full-auto with my mag tuned right (mostly because I haven't figured out how to change it via shims) and I can't imagine shooting TWICE as fast as that!

I'm starting to want one of these! :p

NOTE: I do not condone full-auto via any sort of cheating or reactivity.

[Skoad]

can anyone find pictures of the old proline frame with insides?? I can't seem to find any.


It would be cool if we could confirm it's legal under the www.scenariopaintball.com paintball rules because I am sure they are widely accepted.

[G3PB]

Skoad, The photos are mine. You're looking at the insides...that's all there is....

[Skoad]

So thats exactly how the old prolines were?

[G3PB]

So thats exactly how the old prolines were?


That's all there is....just a note, it makes for a long and stiff trigger pull. I've thought more than a fre times to get Jackal Machine to make these things but I really doubt many players would like it.....

[Skoad]

Yea I have read that about them, but doesn't seem like a really big deal to me. I wonder how hard it would be just to custom make that sear and dremel out room for it. Hooking up the spring wouldn't be too hard.

[louie]

After shooting Jon's gun Saturday, I'm going to try to look for an autoresponse frame. That gun was FUN to shoot. The trigger was stiff and long but when you're seeing the stream of paint, its well worth it.

[Skoad]

I would love to mow down some of those a-5's with one of these.

[G3PB]

Yea I have read that about them, but doesn't seem like a really big deal to me. I wonder how hard it would be just to custom make that sear and dremel out room for it. Hooking up the spring wouldn't be too hard.



It's a box stock sear. Reason it looks like the photo is is that is the old design sear. Notch was, of course, to clear the links but it is not necessary when using a later model sear.

[Skoad]

So basically you can use a regular mag sear, then add on the black part and spring and your done?

[G3PB]

So basically you can use a regular mag sear, then add on the black part and spring and your done?


Very basically, yes.....putting these parts in another frame requires the frame to be opened up inside. All the original AR frames were single trigger. When we first started building these we would just cut the guard off and use a two-finger trigger shoe but many years ago, insurance required trigger guards so we just installed the guts into BM two-finger frames. Like I said, the top needs some milling out to make room for the internals plus the lower spring location has to milled into the frame. Top of the trigger modified a little if you want the safety to engage, etc. Probably be easier to install the guts into a IFrame since they seem to have plenty of room inside plus they already have a spring attachment point......

[trains are bad]

FWIW, the BATFE has ruled that triggers that fire once on the pull and once on the release are considered semi-auto and are not restricted in any special way. People (stupid people) sometimes mod mini-14s to do this.

[Skoad]

So where can we get the pieces for one of these? :)

and who the heck is BATFE? Is it something to do with real firearms? We're not talking about legal in the since of the law, but in tournaments, at fields, etc...

[G3PB]

So where can we get the pieces for one of these? :)



Good question :)




and who the heck is BATFE? Is it something to do with real firearms? We're not talking about legal in the since of the law, but in tournaments, at fields, etc...


BATF - yes, they regulate firearms (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms)- don't me what this has to do with Paintball or AutoResponse frames.

[Hexis]

I still have one burried in a gear box somewhere. (No, not interested in selling it).

I think I stopped a guy dead while he was running down a hill right twords me. It also had that distinctive two shot tempo.

[Skoad]

up for Tom!

[trevorjk]

anyone selling one of these frames? ive been looking for one for a long time

[Almeister]

:eek: Dude I saw one for sale on ebay a couple months ago. I knew I should've bid on it. Oh well too late now. :cuss:

[AGD]

They were not that popular when they were legal and shot twice as fast as everything else. We dont have any plans to make more.

AGD

[Lee]

my best buddy still uses one on his original strange mag. we've played a couple scenarios at waynes world with it and no one said a word.

he has modded it to select fire via the safety. can do single or auto response depending on how far the safety is pushed in.

it rrrriiiipppppssssssssss..........

[Pyrate Jim]

Still have mine, and the installation video that came with it.

Maybe I'll dig that video out and watch it again, been a few years.

[Paintball_4_Fun]

Would it be hard to make one?
I think I'm up for a new project.

[Skoad]

I think it'd be cool to whip one up as a project. Maybe we can get G3PB to scan it for us, give measurements, etc. :)

[TAW]

I have one on my Centerfire and I love it :shooting: . Only problem I have is when I get all jacked up and start pinching my balls ;) .

:dance: Go lvl 10 :dance:

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Firefighter-Centerfire.jpg

[Skoad]

Can anyone get some really nice pictures of the sear attachment? Maybe some measurements.

Need to get a nice picture of the pivot point (if that is one). If noones gonna make em, it'll be a nice project!

[cledford]

One of the issues with the AR is getting a spring with the right tension. Also the guts (aside from the sear) are aluminum and slightly on the fragile side.

I would support G3PB coming out with one of these built on an I frame - the issue is going to be the guts.

Any thoughts?

-Calvin

[GT]

I'd be down for a frame depending on price. Anyone try this with a ULT :headbang: :nono:

[shatter_storm]

I'd be game buying one of these from a custom shop as long as it's not ludicrously expensive. Heck, I'd buy an original one but they're harder to find than z-grips, which is what I'd get first. :P Or maybe an autoresponse z-grip, hmm...

[White Wolf]

I don't think there is enough money in this to be production but i would not mind contributing to a "open source" group to work on this. Since Tom dosent want to make any money on it I wouldn't feel right making cash of his idea. I'll volnteer to CAD the parts and post them for anyone to make there own parts and I can probly do a limited run of the parts at cost if there is enough interest in this....say 25 or so people?

We'd also need some one to work on the spring issues and the frame modification.

Also, it was not noted anywhere else but the original frames had a "tourney lock" for these frames to only shoot normal semi auto, sadly thats the only part i still have from my frame circa 1997 or so.

So if some one will lone me a frame for a week to CAD the internal parts, I'll return it with a Truth series barrel for free.

[TAW]

I have a spare AutoResponce frame I could lone you if people really are interested in making the internal parts.

[danheneise]

don't know if anyone has said or even tried this yet but wouldn't that rock with a ult and an xvalve?, Tom have you tried this setup yet? :headbang:

[JoshK]

Awww...i wish I had one...I Want one of your barrels REALLY bad...

[White Wolf]

Its been 7 years since i last had an AR frame but from what I remember the Reactivness of the trigger made the long hard pull alot more managable, this was on an old school RT with 1200 psi input. When used on Normal mags (of the day) it seemed less then thrilling. So I'd assume these would not work well with the ULT at least if the purpose was pure speed.

[nevets11_2003]

:confused: so some one here is going to make a autoreponse trigger, or just the internals if so what frame would they fit in? are you (who ever you are) going to sell them, ive been looking for one

[White Wolf]

I think the bsics steps, at least as far as Iwas looking at is first to get a good CAD of the parts and freely publish that. This would be for anyone to make there own. Second if there was enough demand I can make a small run of the guts, at cost, if some one else can do the work on the frames and find the springs.

Is this all likely to happen? probly not. Most likely not enough interst and no one willing to do the other work needed to do complete frames. But at least it was a good idea.

[Muzikman]

If ya want, I can take my frame to my old work and have the draftsman there measure and draw all the parts.

[cledford]

If you check out the Automag patent there are some drawings of the guts also - I'm reasonably sure someone could figure out the dimensions from the drawing - the problem is that the drawing is a little rough...

http://airsoldier.com/~haveblue/tech/patents/US005280778.pdf

-Calvin

[azzkikr]

well i have a old AR frame i would be willing to send to WW if enough people show interest, is so include myself in that bunch.

AZZKIKR :mad:

[moed59]

one