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dre1919
08-11-2004, 11:27 AM
Ok, I was thinking about this topic after reading an excellent post by Blennidae located here:

http://www.automags.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1546121

That got me thinking about paintball, where it is now and where it was when I started and I wanted to weigh in on some issues and see what AO thought about them. I've been playing the sport for eleven years now, and I am 28, just for reference sake. I started out playing in 1993 with Splatmaster Rapide pistols in the park (which is illegal) and went on to college. From there, I got into playing rec ball in the woods...renting my Tippmann pump rifle and wearing my camoflauge. Those were some great days back then because we could go down to our local field and play this wonderful sport for around $25 a day. That was it. 500 rounds lasted a long time then because the emphasis of the sport was on stalking, using cover and terrain, and tactics. It was truly an action pursuit sport at that time. Somewhere along the way the semi-auto was introduced and those who wielded it garnered a large share of the power present on the field of play. If you're looking for an example, think about entering a modern battle where your enemy has an AK-47 and you have a twleve gauge shotgun and there you go. Regardless, this was fun as hell.

Around this time was also the heyday of the Automag and Autococker fueds. It seemed like you either went one way or the other, but regardless of which you chose, you were rolling with "the" marker to have at the time. Tournament paintball started to come along as it was no longer good enough to just play the action pursuit portion of the sport, there had to be a proving ground to determine who the best was. I think as humans, this is one of our natural ingrained processes of function...competition to determine number one. Tournament paintball ushered in a whole new era of equipment and rules, as well as styles of play. I remember first playing speedball and thinking how much I hated that game. It was fastpaced, seemingly relying only on firepower and no skill, and a joke. Ironically, years later after playing the tournament scene, I went back and played a scenario game in the woods. I thought it was too slow, too far away from my equiupment and vehicle, and lacking structure! What had happened? I had made the transition into a tournament player from a rec player, but was it for the best? I naturally followed the "bigger, better, faster, stronger" mentality to my game and my equipment, but am I better for it?

As I said before, it used to be we could go out and have an entire day of fun on $25. We didn't care so much about wins and losses, or who the top guy was. You knew, especially when you trudged back to the deadbox and he wasn't there much, but you didn't really need trophies to show it. You just understood as young men. I got into playing tournament ball and formed a team with my buddies. Soon, paintball began to consume our lives even more, which is ok because I love the sport. We went to tournaments and did ok, even winning one, and we had fun. Did we have as much fun as playing in the woods? Hard to say really. I liked the speed and the colors of the new game, and things became more fancy and cool gadgets came along to mess with. I didn't mind the phasing out of the all black markers and the camo. It seemed like a natural progression to becoming a sport, which was something I really wanted to see. However, I didn't like the fact the day's play became less about having fun and more about winning. At any cost, winning. Get hit? Wipe it. Can't wipe it? Argue with the ref. Need better players? Sandbag it. What's the deal with all of this?

Is it really that important to win the little plastic trophy showing how cool you are and a few dollars (which is really all you'll have left over after buying cases of paint)? What about fair play and having fun playing a truly unique sport? I call myself a tournament paintball player and when anybody asks I point to this as the sport I play, even considering myself an "athlete" for doing it, but how accurate is that? Whereas I used to play every other weekend, I now play every few months if I'm lucky. Life intrudes, expenses come up, and to top it off I'm artist so you know I'm not rich. :) But that I think is what disturbs me about this game...more and more it seems to be morphing into a sport of the elitist. Only young, parent supported kids or older, established men can seem to afford this game these days. The twenty something crowd has a tough time affording all the upgrades and cases of paint all the newest and fanciest markers seem to chew through. Have people's accuracy and skill sets really become bad enough that we need markers that shoot 30 plus balls a second? I mean, c'mon...I understand cover fire and appreciate it being a front player, but 30 a second? Nobody even fires that fast to begin with...but one group loves the fact they're that fast...the paint manufacturer. They get to sell immense amounts of paint because you can't keep it in your gun these days.

I go out when I can now and can't play two hours without going through a case of paint, and I'm currently using a Classic Mag! The mentality is just different these days. We used to throw our stuff together and head to the field, now we have so much extra gear it's almost a major trip with planning just to get out there for a couple hours. I've contemplated getting out of the sport altogether at times when I've sat back and thought about how much money I would need to spend to get the marker back I would like to have (I used to have an ir3, had to sell it to pay bills) and what I'd spend on paint. I would look at it and think, is it worth it? The game is great, but the players have begun to get more and more annoying. When you go to the field and a 14 year old kid walks in with a brand new $1500 gun and $200 for paint, doesn't it make you stop and wonder? I suppose this is more of a rant than anything else, but I just wanted to discuss where this sport is heading. I think the technology has exceeded the game and that at some point everyone who loves playing will just throw up their hands and say "That's it! I'm not paying $1300 for a new gun or $68 for a case of paint anymore. I just won't." And why should they? It's only a game afterall.

The easiest solution for someone like me is to go back to playing rec if the prices and environment of the tourney game don't interest me anymore, but that's the thing. I love tourney ball and have found myself feeling limited and "playing below my level" when I go back and play rec. What's up with that? It's all the same game at it's core right? So why do I feel that way then? I think the solution is a simplification of the sport as a whole and ditching a lot of what we think is so important, like outrageous BPS's and laser sensors in chambers. Balls break, players get hit, teams lose...get over it and have some fun for a change. It would be nice to have those days back in a sport like this.

RusskiX
08-11-2004, 11:55 AM
I think that the competitive nature of any sport can SOMETIMES be incompatible with the fun aspect of playing.

The fact is tourneys are competitive paintball. Some people enjoy the competitive nature. Other people (myself included) find that the competitive aspect is NOT fun.

The reality is different strokes for different folks. For my own reasons, I have more fun playing rec in the woods. I don't need to prove myself or even get the most eliminations to have fun. Other people, who I can respect, love to win and get caught up in the newest technological revolutions offered by competitive ball.

As long as everyone can respect each other I love the fact that tournaments have evolved. It does some good promotion of the sport and it has done a lot to lower paint prices. ;)

It is too hard to generalize the "state of paintball" today. Every individual needs to make their own decision. Do you have fun playing competitions and winning or do you have more fun just running around shooting your friends?

LudavicoSoldier
08-11-2004, 12:12 PM
I think you and I need to find ourselves each a good group of dedicated, old school woodsballers/rec players. Rec with n00bs will make you feel like you are "playing below your level". Try scenerio ball out if you are only going to be playing once and awhile. I too am quite tired of the tourney talk/scene. I just want to have fun again... :ninja:

SteelSoul
08-11-2004, 12:36 PM
You know it
I have been playing for ages I started back in the late 80's and have played on and off up until now.
I have gone from pump guns to vm68's to a blazer, and now mags. As of late I have found the ICD made some very kick butt markers in the 90's and I am buying them just to play rec ball and have fun again.
Done speed ball, done hyper ball played every game you can think of and I still love the basic
"this is a 15 minute game" Go on my whistle.....

I guess it is ol school thing, I enjoy woods ball and "trenches" and Crack House or even the new castel they bulit at txpb. It is fun, a lot more fun the playing a speedball game and shooting 7 pods + my hopper in 1 game, heck I brag now to eveyone I only used 4 pods in the last hour and my buddy is giving me a hard time for shooting to much.

I can afford to buy the paint, or any marker I want but I like getting a $30 marker and a $15 rebulid kit and shooting the 9 PBS the Alley cat is rated at. And it is fun when l33t turny players come up to me and ask What is that, and I say Oh its a ol ICD marker, and they go you mean they make something beside the Bko ???

Good times

Just relax and let the kids play there uber hyperball games
Come on down to Tex and huck paint with me and my buds and we can have a kickbutt time playing REC BALL

abunkerer
08-11-2004, 12:38 PM
Im about the same age, I bought a mag back in 94' and have seen the sport grow a lot. I played woods, wore camo and the whole deal, it was fun!
However I don't think that the sport has "changed" so much as other aspects of the sport have been made available to players.
Knowing what I know about paintball I could not just grap a rental marker/mask (gross), 200 rounds and Co2 and go have a great time...However If I bring a couple of guys that never played before and gear them up with rental gear, and go jump around in the woods all day they have a great time!
WHere I play -Badlandz- there is a a little something for everyone. You have your private party groups (for birthdays, bachelor parties, corporate outings ect.). You have your rental Kids who are just getting into the sport, they usually seperate new players so they don't get lit up. You have your weekend warrior guys with thousand dollar guns that get no use, they are the ones that usually light up the new players. You have your Military Simulation guys, now these guys freak me out, they spend more on their Kevlar outfits and M16 paintball guns than most paintball players spend in a year on gear, but to each his own right? And your hardcore rec ballers, who play a lot of speedball and Airball, but don't have a team. And your teams of tournament Players who just shoot eachother over and over again all day long on the xball field.
THere is a lot of options, and you can pretty much play wherever you want however you want. And as far as prices go I shoot about a case a day (30.00) and pay $15 for entry with my tourney card, so it's not that much money to go out if you go to the right places.

tony3
08-11-2004, 12:44 PM
In my opinion, all of this talk is great, but overall WHO CARES! Go out and play and stop thinking this over so much and getting so consumed in, omg paintball is getting ruined because of tourney ball!!! JUST GO OUT AND PLAY AND HAVE A GOOD TIME! If you can't do this when you are playing, then you might as well not play. The second I stop having fun paintballing, I am stopping. I'm not wasting money on something I don't like to do.

MiniSpdRcr
08-11-2004, 12:45 PM
I think you and I need to find ourselves each a good group of dedicated, old school woodsballers/rec players. Rec with n00bs will make you feel like you are "playing below your level". Try scenerio ball out if you are only going to be playing once and awhile. I too am quite tired of the tourney talk/scene. I just want to have fun again... :ninja:

Ditto...I remember playing with just pumps...that was great. I need to fix mine up and make it operational again. Since I live in the country and have about 20 acres to spare with woods me and friends just get paint, air, and what not at the store and go to my farm.

Eric Cartman
08-11-2004, 12:48 PM
Seems to me this is not so much about where the sport is headed, but where you as a player are headed. You started with Splatmasters, I started with Nelspot 007’s with feed tubes and 12 gram co2 capsules :D . I started playing in 1988 (I’m 34 now) at a field nearby that has now been open for 22 years. It’s where I still play almost every Sunday (through the decent weather at least). Although they have a speedball field there,( which I have played on several times), I prefer to play in the forest. I use an all black gun (ULE mag) and I’ve recently gone back to wearing camo. I saw a lot of friends get every upgrade possible, then switch to electros and leave the forest for the speedball field. Most (but definitely not all) of them went for the tourney style of play and after a few years they burned out and stopped playing. Too much fighting, too much money and not enough fun. I was asked several times to join some friends, get a team together and hit a tourney or two but I always politely declined. I know that everyone is different, but for me, I’m still having fun going out and getting filthy playing in the forest. I could care less who wins the games or who wins most of the games for the day, what I care about is that great shoot out I had with those two guys by the creek or up on the east side of the field by the tape, or perhaps the spectacular wipeout I took over that exposed root near the south flag station on field #3. After the gear is all put away at the end of the day, we sit around and have a few pints :cheers: and laugh about the day we’ve just had, the stupid things we may have done or a really great shot we pulled off. No pressure, no attitudes, just fun - pure and simple.

Anyway, my whole point here is that there are obviously plenty of people who feel the same way I do as I’ve been playing with or against them regularly for several years now. Some of the people who burned out have come back recently to have a few old skool games in the forest and it’s great to see them enjoying themselves again. Besides, the speedball field is always there for them if they decide they want to empty their wallets a bit faster :D and play with the credit card kids and their $1500.00 guns. Obviously there are still pump players out there – not as many as there used to be, but they’re out there still playing. Although the sport has undoubtedly grown and changed, I think there’s plenty of room for every style of play and every level of player. There’s no reason to look down on anyone else’s style of play, no matter what the PBN kids say :shooting: . If you’re not currently happy with what you’re doing, maybe you could take a break and come back and try something a bit different – maybe break out the old Splatmaster again?

abunkerer
08-11-2004, 01:01 PM
After the gear is all put away at the end of the day, we sit around and have a few pints and laugh about the day we’ve just had, the stupid things we may have done or a really great shot we pulled off


Yeah, I agree, that's what it is all about! :cheers:

dre1919
08-11-2004, 01:49 PM
Ah, you know the thing is I still love playing tournament paintball, I just hate the cost of the sport. I think the way things have gone in the industry it's made being a successful team much harder unless you have sponsorship. You really can't acquire sponsorship unless you get out and win and/or place well in tourneys, so it's something of a viscious circle. I'm not trying to complain or bellyache, I'm just stating an opinion. The easiest advice is "stop playing touney ball", and I may, but that's not really what this thread is about. I am just curious as to how others feel about where the sport is and where it seems to be heading.

There have been a few times I've felt like purchasing a scenario styled marker, or just adding a few inexpensive items to my Mag and calling it a day. Then on the other hand, I love to tinker with high end markers as well, so it just depends on a lot of things really. I'd just like to get back to being able to go out and play and not concern myself with other things. Perhaps a return to the rec ball ranks with experienced rec ball players is the best way to go for awhile.

Jeffy-CanCon
08-11-2004, 02:09 PM
Paintball, as a business, is booming. More players today than ever before, buying from more stores, in more towns and more countries.

As an industry, it's maturing and consolidating, with big companies gobbling up the little ones, and big money coming in from non-paintball sources.

As a game, it's dividing and polarizing. The serious players go to tourneys on the one hand, or scenarios on the other. The manufacturers are starting to go one way or the other, too.

As a sport, it's still in adolescence. After more than 20 years, there is finally a real sport-like format (X-ball), with a sensible scoring system and a time-clock. I don't think it is capable of maturing as a sport, though, until there is a governing body in place which is not dominated by industry people whose principle goal is to increase their own sales.


Eric Cartman, and you others who have continued to play the game you love, I salute you!
:cheers:

JrnyFan1985
08-11-2004, 02:11 PM
I haven't played this sport for long (5 years), but I do like the direction our sport is heading. Paintball is soon going to be on T.V., we have more players than we did back in the early stages of the game, and technology is eliminating problems with the quality of the marker, paint, and other accessories that currently go on with the game. However, I in no way find this sport speeding out of control or losing touch with the "real" fan base. Is it really a big deal that the super-new electro can fire at 30 balls per second? NO! No human can really fire that fast with a legal debounce setting. The company's use their "top-rate technology" for marketing and that's that.
In terms of it being expensive, I don't really see it too terribly expensive. I have a situation where I have two fields within forty minutes of me, and three paintball stores (not including the paintball proshops in the field) within forty minutes of me. I just shop around, I call every place and find the best deal I can, then I go to that store, regardless of whether I like that store owner better or what not. I got tournament quality paint for $45 a case and I love the stuff. With the rising number of players in this sport. It'll only incease it's popularity, popularity brings more stores selling paintball equipment, more stores equals more competetion between stores, and competetion equals lower prices.

RayU
08-11-2004, 02:13 PM
Find a handful of players who have similar views as you, and organize your own group days to play "honor-ball" in the style that the group likes. I've been primarily playing honorball pump play with a small group of friends nearly exclusively for several years. We have an agreement with a local field - $15 field fee including air, BYOP. We play on our own on whichever field is not being used for tourney practice or other rec groups at the time. No refs - honorball, we ref ourselves.

The last time I played semi-auto with my Blazer and Mag, was at AO Tex-ball in Feb. And neither of them had been on a field for a long time before that.

We play a load of games, 'til we're all tired out and out of paint. Amazing when you go through nearly 1/2 a case of paint when playing pump style (gravity feed & tank), to know you've played a good number of games, or had a good workout doing skill improvement drills, or, heh, gone nuts with the autotrigger. :rolleyes:

This really brings out the PBIF: PaintBall Is Fun, factor. Good friends and colleagues, good paintball play, low BS atmosphere. For our group, pump play brings out the good-aim, good-movement skills of play which we prefer rather than the hose-the-bunker style of play. Of course, when you get tired, and don't want to move from your bunker, you hose more, as much as you can hose with a pump. :p

-- RayU

Torbo
08-11-2004, 02:35 PM
so heres my story. I started playing 4 years ago with a tippmann pro/carbine. I played woods for 3 years and loved it. Then i hurt myself and had to take a break. By then most of the kids i had played with had quit, and the remaining friends that played had moved out of the woods. So thats what i did too. Speedball was fun, so i played it. For a while i sucked hardcore, but i got the hang of it. Now a year later, after some crazy times, some ups and downs and lot of new friends, its still fun. I go to work to pay for my stuff. All of it. So basically where this has led to is me saying this: I dont care where you play. If you dont want to play tourneys, then dont. Play senarios. It doesnt matter. What matters is that if youre playing paintball you should be having fun. Because thats the only reason to do it, unless you play pro or NXL or something like that. Its meant to be fun.

RusskiX
08-11-2004, 05:24 PM
Ah, you know the thing is I still love playing tournament paintball, I just hate the cost of the sport.

In that case, the real problem is not the enjoyment but the cost. So now you still have two choices...play rec to save money and maybe not have as much fun or keep playing tourneys but get a better income to afford it. Tournament ball will always be about bigger, faster, "better" and hence more expensive, no way around it.