No offense Josh, but...

[Muzikman]

Heavily "Armed:" I had a great time at the Clemson, South Carolina Automags.org day. With people like the legendary Tom Kaye, "Manike" and Clare Benavides in attendance along with "Doobie," Trina, CFOA Promoter and President Larry Motes and myself, the day was sure to be a blast. We played a little tournament and then a few games of "attack and defend" that were more reminiscent of the first twenty minutes of "Saving Private Ryan" than anything paintball-related, at least when Larry, Tom, Manike and I were at the top of the hill. While taking pictures and reffing a little bit during the tournament, I snapped a series of shots of a guy coming down the tapeline in front of me and saw the ball break on his arm through the viewfinder, at which time I promptly called him out, told him to stop shooting and signalled his elimination. He proceeded to argue with me, demanding to know where he was hit. The picture didn't lie, and neither did that other hit he took to the knee coming down the field. I saw as much blatant cheating, wiping and playing on at this AO day as I did at the last tournament I attended, but hey, it was better than a sharp stick in the eye.


http://www.pb2x.com/images/JDSIMAGES/JDSXMagBreak.jpg

http://www.pb2x.com/JDSGreatestHits.htm

No offense Josh, but man are you harsh. I was not there when he got hit, but to put this little blurb on your site sure was a blow to AO Days and the person in question (who I know to be a standup guy).

[The Action Figure]

agreed now josh wheres my pb2x

[logamus]

hey, he saw what he saw. the picture doesnt lie either. we all make mistakes from time to time but i dont know why josh would want to just make up a story. maybe it is harsh, but maybe thats just what was needed in this case. how gentle were people on bea after this pic came out?
http://www.forceofnature.com/gallery/album78/Destiny.jpg


ps, im not defending bea at all, just pointing out a similiarity.

[personman]

Thats funny, because I diddnt see any cheating at all. I guess I'm blind though :tard:

[BlackVCG]

Sometimes the truth hurts...

I could care less who the person is in the picture and if Silverman is being truthful in saying that the guy argued back about being hit, then he has pretty decent reason to make such statements if he was seeing similar incidents throughout the day.

As a general statement, people that argue about being hit with the ref need to shut up and get the F off the field. Just one of those things that really irritates me about paintball players that think they can see more than the refs.

[Blazestorm]

omfg black is the right.

I've actually never had a ref yell at me to get out, a ref rather checks me and calls me out, I walk out and get bonus-balled a few times, or I get shot, I check myself and walk-out.

It's paintball guys, there will always be more games to play, If you get shot, you're out. There shouldn't be a grey area "Oh I shot him first" both people should leave, if you want to pull a sloppy bunker move and try to stay alive, you deserve to be out, you rather do it right, or not at all... if you want to stay in the game that is...

On a side note... BUY MY STUFF!

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=148036 :ninja:

[hitech]

:wow: I'm very surprised by Josh's comments. I talked with him extensively at that event and he never mentioned anything even remotely like that. However, if that's what he saw, that's what he saw. Josh impressed me as being a very stand-up person. I'm even more surprised as I had the opposite experience. When I made the last ditch desperate dash UP the hill I didn't get overly lit up. Most of the opposing players (there were a lot more than I thought) stopped shooting to inform me that I was hit. And then congratulate me on a nice attempt. :D

:cheers:

[Head knight of Ni]

What the player is obviously hit and there is photographic evidence. For the one on the knee I not sure if it is a hit but he did get hit and he's eliminated if he argues then he is not respecting the ref. Anything beyond walking off should be brought up after the game especially since it was a friendly game. Josh has evidence to support his call, if the player in question would speak about this instance we could come to a solid conclusion. ;)

[tony3]

Is that 1stdeadeye? Looks like his pic at the top of the forum.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

I think that is hitech actually, btu it does also REALLY look like 1de.. I don't know just my guesstimation :)

[hitech]

I think that is hitech actually...

Hey now, watch it! ;) I'll get you for that. :shooting:

[Head knight of Ni]

yes I believe that is Deadeye.

[shartley]

He is wearing a Camo1 Bandu…. I would put money on it being 1stdeadeye. (note also the "E" on the back of his jersey)

Hey, no one is perfect and everyone slips now and again.

[Lohman446]

Let me defend whoever it is by noting that hit is VERY fresh - as in see the shell still falling in the air, he may not have reacted to getting off the trigger when that shot was taken - the one on the knee MIGHT have been from a slide in. Please not I am not defending playing on, but sometimes we get too excited about things.

I have asked refs in the past "where" when they told me I was hit, and it is not in an attempt to argue, its in an attempt to know where - perhaps out of curiousity, surprise, whatever. Some may call that arguing... maybe it is its not intended as such.

That said, I am sorry the author of the post saw any misconduct at the event, such as wiping, playing on, etc. However, the above picture, is not necessarily of a player intentionally cheating. Im sure we have all played on at one point or another, at least for split seconds.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Hey now, watch it! ;) I'll get you for that. :shooting:

Heh heh, are you gonna make it out to VT on the 28th?

[Smoke]

That is 1stdeadeye.

http://www.automags.org/pic/img/hdr/header15.jpg

[Mango]

IN for the email notes...

and

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jtrussell7/ohsnap1.gif

[cphilip]

I think I will just ignore this for the most part.

The Refs did not report any cheating to me. And we had very little problems. I didn't see any nor did anyone report any to me. We had one temper tantrum from a local team guy. We kicked him out. I did not see any score sheets with any penalties for playing on or anything. Very little. Pretty much a very well behaved bunch from what I can tell.

I don't agree with Josh on that one. I think its an exageration for press purposes. I will leave it at that.

[barberjohn]

i say we take his picture down off the top banner and put mine in place :D .

[coyote]

I have never intentionally played through a break.

That being said, I will question a ref when I don't know I have been hit. This is for my benefit, for the following reasons

1) I want to make sure I clean it off before the next game.

2) I want to know who got an angle on me and how. I used to keep a notebook of the hits I took. I would include the reason I got hit. Some were acceptable, if I took a high risk move for instance. If the hit was unnacceptable I made sure I practiced tactics to avoid taking the same hit again.

3) Make sure a teammate didn't shoot me. (It happens people)

I will venture to say that in every instance I questioned the ref it could be seen as arguing. It wasn't. I have always tryed my best to let officials know this. I will explain myself after a game to the ref. Generally we understand that the elevated abrupt communication that happens on the field can easily be misinterpretted. I don't get upset for the ref yelling at me. I try to make the point that I need that same courtesy. that is just the way paintball is played.

The fact of the matter is perception is a persons reality. A bystander can look at what goes on and see me as a cheat and a loudmouth. I simply want to play the best game I can. If that makes me a cheat I strive to be the most honest cheat on the field.

I have played through hits on my headgear that I never felt and no one else called. I have found hits on kneepads that got missed. I have found my opponents paint in the creases of my pack. Had i known they were there I would have ended my game.

I will offer this as a closing thought. I am imperfect, as is every other player. If you seek to brand a player a cheat because of one or 2 misteps you had best look in the mirror. As sure as the sun will rise the pot and the kettle both call each other black.

[WARPED1]

Truth hurts I guess.................

[punkncat]

Good post Coyote...mistakes happen .

I feel that the picture in question could be taken out of context. I wonder about the motives of this guy as to why he would write up an article basically slamming an AO event , when he(supposedly) didn't have anything bad to say while he was there ? I think the writer may have embellished for a better read.

Honestly , I don't know any of the people involved , I just feel like if the event was just slightly better than being "poked in the eye with a sharp stick" why not say something there ? It would be a really chicken- - - - thing to do , being the person whom is writing a nationaly released article not to mention to someone that he was having a bad time. Or as the quote infers , being privy to the worst cheating this side of the pro circuit.

[cphilip]

Truth hurts I guess.................

I guess if it were the truth...

Missrepresentation hurts more. Spreading exagerated false impressions over the net is hurtfull and I fail to understand why it happened. It saddens me. I don't think I personaly want to be involved in any more of these events that can be portrayed like this anymore. I am dissapointed in what I am seeing here and I am certainly not going to open myself or my Clemson people to such irrational, mean spirited "press" by bringing people together were one person can take something out of context and ruin the entire thing for everyone by taking one particular moment and portraying it as the entire thing. If Mr Silverman wants to do this he can find another target. I don't play these kind of games with peoples reputations. And I will not expose them to it again.

[RusskiX]

How about we let Josh and 1DE post before anyone else blows this out of proportion...

[cphilip]

How about we let Josh and 1DE post before anyone else blows this out of proportion...

I don't have to. It's my event and an attack on me... He went further than attack 1DE. He went on to paint a nasty picture of the whole thing. A giant leap of illogic but none the less its there. And it comes from someone who I considered a friend and who had nothing but good to say about it up until this. Came out of left field this last statement and its now a public gaffaw. The harm has been done. And it's been done to me.

Thats my last comment on it. Ever.

[tyrion2323]

Here are my thoughts:

Josh has proven (at least in my opinion) his dedication to both AO and AGD. While what he said was harsh, perhaps he has a point. I've many times watched friends and non-friends play on with hits. I've called them out (from the sidelines) and sometimes they leave and sometimes they don't.

To CPhilip: I don't think that he meant it as a personal attack on you. Sure, I wouldn't have gone to the lengths of saying that AOers cheat as much as proteams; however, he witnessed what he witnessed. I understand why you take it personally, but I highly doubt that he meant it that way.

Anyways, let's let both of them post and see what REALLY happened.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

if i remember correctly i think 1de explained to us in one thread that he didnt feel those hits (i mean he is a big guy and paint can be soft and brittle sometimes)

[TDonovan]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It really is possible to NOT feel hits. I don't feel mine all the time and I only wear a thin tshirt and often shorts.

If he DID cheat, well that's not exactly good, but I wouldn't pass judgement on em. Everyone can goof once in a while.

On a side note, I get dirty looks from people who think I wipe on occasion. But really all I do is tap the hit with 2 fingers to let people know i felt something (ref can check) and to comfirm a hit or bounce if i feel paint.

[1stdeadeye]

Yes, That was me!!!

However that was in the game against DDT. I made a move up the tapeline. Josh was not a ref in that game, but taking pictures. As I made my way up the tape, I lit him up pretty good as I thought he was playing until he raised his camera.

When Nick hit me, I did not feel it or see it. So when I was called out I simply asked where. When told I left right away. I do not play on nor do I cheat. Ask anyone who plays with me, that is not what I do.

That kind of pisses me off that Josh would write that. Like I said, as soon as it was pointed out to me, I left the field immediatly. Refs are there to ensure a fair game, as you don't see or feel every hit.

At NJ AO III, a lot of people will remember me being shot out during the tourny by a Stud Squad member with a pump. It hit the cargo pocket of my bdus and broke. I didn't feel it ir see it. Neither did Danz. A ref saw it, called me out and I left. End of story. I got a boat load of grief not for playing on, but for losing a snap shooting duel with my X to his pump. :tard:

I am sorry I lit you up Josh, but the above story is bs!!!!! :mad:

[1stdeadeye]

Sometimes the truth hurts...

I could care less who the person is in the picture and if Silverman is being truthful in saying that the guy argued back about being hit, then he has pretty decent reason to make such statements if he was seeing similar incidents throughout the day.

As a general statement, people that argue about being hit with the ref need to shut up and get the F off the field. Just one of those things that really irritates me about paintball players that think they can see more than the refs.

First off Silverman was not a ref!!!!!!! :mad:

Second I did not argue! I shouted back accross the field as was about 30 or 40 yards away "Where?" He told me , I saw it and then left. I did not play on!

If he took my yelling one question back at him as argueing, he is way to sensitive. Also, there was a ref on my side of the field and it was not Josh! :mad: We hashed this out last year in the AO SC thread. Dayspring was the one who shot me and he was satisfied that I went out as soon as I was called on the arm shot! That is a great picture of a hit, but making a story more dramtic then it was to go with it is BS!!! :mad:

[1stdeadeye]

omfg black is the right.

I've actually never had a ref yell at me to get out, a ref rather checks me and calls me out, I walk out and get bonus-balled a few times, or I get shot, I check myself and walk-out.

It's paintball guys, there will always be more games to play, If you get shot, you're out. There shouldn't be a grey area "Oh I shot him first" both people should leave, if you want to pull a sloppy bunker move and try to stay alive, you deserve to be out, you rather do it right, or not at all... if you want to stay in the game that is...



Or maybe a NON REF calls you out and you can ask where? :tard:

Once shown, I left immediatly and did not argue. Asking a spectator where is hardly an arguement! :rolleyes:

JOSH WAS NOT A REF EVEN THOUGH HE SAID HE WAS IN HIS ARTICLE!!!!

[1stdeadeye]

Now I am really mad!

Nick (Dayspring) called me out. I yelled "Where?" He yelled "Deadeye you're gone on your arm!" I looked and left.

Josh was in the rear stand-up by the field entrance and I was on the 50. I even apologized to Josh when I left the field for lighting him up.

[Creative Mayhem]

I'm not taking sides as I know both Scott and Josh are without a doubt , stand up guys. I will simply say that mistakes happen and you don't always feel hits, I know it has happened to me in the past. All I know is that at SCAO, I had no issues other than getting shot in the back by one of my Drunken Fury teamates(prolly what I get for playing with fellow drunkards :D), nor did I witness or hear of any cheating, playing on, or misbehavior(other than the local guy)

For the record, I have nothing but love for Josh and his articles and fantastic pictures, and on the same token, Scott is a great guy and good friend, I think this is just a case of misinterrpretation in the heat of playing. Like I said before... mistakes happen.


One more thing... Why can't we all just get along?!?! :p :cheers:

[Muzikman]

Phil,
I did not post this so that you would have no more AO Days, I mean come on, the SEAO day is the best and I think everyone is looking forward to it again this year.

Scott,
I did not post this to bring back bad memories.

Josh,
I did not post this to make you look bad. I respect you and the work you do, but as the old saying goes, if you have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. But then again, you are a journalist, and Don Henley sums it up in the song Dirty Laundry.

Everyone,
I did not post this because of the photo, but what was said by a respected photographer and writer for one of the top paintball rags. This was not in just a passing forum thread or in conversation, this was highlighted on his own personal webpage. I think of Josh as a good guy, a good reporter and a good photographer, but what I see in this "Greatest Hits" is slander (or I guess libel since it’s written) against the SEAO day, 1DE and AO in general. Sure it was a great shot, and as a photographer, I would love to get a photo like that, but that would not have been the story I put behind it. I spent the entire day photographing the event as well, I took over 1000 photographs that weekend, 500 of which are on my site. I had not seen one thing that stuck out in my mind as cheating. I did not see intentional playing on, whipping, crying, complaining (except the local that Phil talked about). All in all, this was a great event, a fun event and I think all the AOers treated it as well.

If Phil decided to not organize another SEAO day, I blame myself. And if this is the case, I will make it up to everyone some how.

[shartley]

Looks like we now heard both sides. And it sounds logical to me.

I know 1stdeadeye to be a stand up guy, and was hoping his side was as he posted. I am glad it was.

Perspective folks… perspective. You can have 10 people witness an accident and get 10 different stories. Who is correct? Is anyone lying because they say something different than another person?

However, it is the responsibility of the investigator (or Press) to make sure they get the story right. And that is true even if they were one of the 10 who saw it happen. This may not have been done this time…. For any number of reasons.

But since I was not there, I will reserve final “judgment” on what did or didn’t happen. It sounds like most everyone had a great time though.

[Thordic]

Josh got banned from IAO for being blatantly honest. He calls it as he sees it, he doesn't lighten up just to be nice.

If he wrote it like that, thats how he saw it. Not saying his viewpoint was the most accurate or not, I wasn't there.

Also, not in relation to this incident, but I've seen playing on at AO days. Not as much as I've seen at some tournaments, but I've seen plenty of it.

[Muzikman]

Josh got banned from IAO for being blatantly honest. He calls it as he sees it, he doesn't lighten up just to be nice.

If he wrote it like that, thats how he saw it. Not saying his viewpoint was the most accurate or not, I wasn't there.

Also, not in relation to this incident, but I've seen playing on at AO days. Not as much as I've seen at some tournaments, but I've seen plenty of it.


Well, if you are comparing NJAO and SEAO, they are different events. This year being my first year at an NJ event but, just hearing about the niteHawk incident from last year, I can tell ya they are different events. Like I said, I was watching most of the games and saw no cheating at all. That is not saying it wasn't there, but it was not something I saw.

[1ofkind]

This is why you should shoot people atleast 2 times. Who cares if they *female dog* at you?

[Thordic]

I'm talkin about any AO event. The incident with lee wasn't about playing on anyway, it was about over-shooting if I remember correctly.

Playing on happens. Doesn't matter who you are playing with. A large portion of the time I'm sure the player doesn't even know it. A few times I've come off the field and found hits on my pack or on some part of my clothes that I didn't know was there.

And that happens whether you are playing in NJ, SC, or Zimbabwe.

And sometimes, when you are caught up in the game, you tend to be loud. Not because you need to yell, but because you have your adrenaline pumping.

Now imagine you are on the sidelines, and you just got lit up by some guy by accident. He is running towards you, and you see a hit on him. You tell him hes out, and he yells back "WHERE AM I HIT?". Now, you are already probably a little pissed that you got shot, and now the guy is yelling at you. You aren't playing in the game, so your adrenaline isn't pumping, and the yelling seems directed at you, rather than a function of the game.

Does the situation seem a little different now?

[bofh]

And that happens whether you are playing in NJ, SC, or Zimbabwe.


Sweet! AO Zimbabwe! Who's in?

[Muzikman]

Eh, I hadn't see this type of situation at either SEAO or TexBall. As a matter of fact, they were begging teams to cheat just so there would be a penalty. If I am not mistaken it was Miscue that got it:)

[Tunaman]

I'm talkin about any AO event. The incident with lee wasn't about playing on anyway, it was about over-shooting if I remember correctly.

Playing on happens. Doesn't matter who you are playing with. A large portion of the time I'm sure the player doesn't even know it. A few times I've come off the field and found hits on my pack or on some part of my clothes that I didn't know was there.

And that happens whether you are playing in NJ, SC, or Zimbabwe.

And sometimes, when you are caught up in the game, you tend to be loud. Not because you need to yell, but because you have your adrenaline pumping.

Now imagine you are on the sidelines, and you just got lit up by some guy by accident. He is running towards you, and you see a hit on him. You tell him hes out, and he yells back "WHERE AM I HIT?". Now, you are already probably a little pissed that you got shot, and now the guy is yelling at you. You aren't playing in the game, so your adrenaline isn't pumping, and the yelling seems directed at you, rather than a function of the game.

Does the situation seem a little different now?
Correct. He wasn't playing or reffing in the game. Therefore, he should have kept his mouth shut and continued to take pictures quietly like a good little boy journalist. :confused: :D

[speeddemon]

When I first saw this, I was already thinking of a big long reply, until I read the whole thread. Seems like the rest of AO already beat me to it. I'll just say this though, I was one of the refs at the last SCAO, and never saw any kind of cheating the whole day. None of the other refs did either I believe. I think once I had to tell someone they were hit. Almost every time, the second a person was hit, they walked off (or called for a paintcheck). Never saw anyone play on purposefully, and no wiping at all. Im sure Josh has his reasons for what he said, even though its not called for.

[Muzikman]

Now imagine you are on the sidelines, and you just got lit up by some guy by accident. He is running towards you, and you see a hit on him. You tell him hes out, and he yells back "WHERE AM I HIT?". Now, you are already probably a little pissed that you got shot, and now the guy is yelling at you. You aren't playing in the game, so your adrenaline isn't pumping, and the yelling seems directed at you, rather than a function of the game.

Does the situation seem a little different now?


So this sounds a lot like when Jon lit me up in NJ. I didn't yell, scream or do anything but hug my camera and hide behind Mango...thanks again Mango:)

[hitech]

Heh heh, are you gonna make it out to VT on the 28th?

Nope. The new little one (8 weeks old :D ) is taking up a lot of my time. That and my wifes car dying. Car shopping is the next priority. :(

[Army]

*whimper* I still love you Josh! *sob*

:rofl:

[deadeye9]

Everyone is missing the point of the picture.

The point is: doesn't 1DE look better since he lost weight?

[PsychoBaller]

He wasn't playing or reffing in the game. Therefore, he should have kept his mouth shut and continued to take pictures quietly like a good little boy journalist. :confused: :D
or a Paparazzi jerkface... that likes to exagerate things just cause he got a boo boo from taking pictures during a game.

[Dayspring]

Seeing as how I put the offending ball on 1DE's arm, I feel compelled to back up Scott's story. I hit his arm and tucked back in. He launched a few at me and I yelled, "Scott, check your arm." He did and left the field.

Scott's a stand up player and I will back him up 100%.

[Steelrat]

Nope. The new little one (8 weeks old :D ) is taking up a lot of my time. That and my wifes car dying. Car shopping is the next priority. :(

Hey, I have 3 kids (6 months, 2 years, 5 years) and I work 60 hours a week, and I'll still be there ;)

[hitech]

Hey, I have 3 kids (6 months, 2 years, 5 years) and I work 60 hours a week, and I'll still be there ;)

A belated congratulations on the little one. :cheers:

The 28th is also my companies annual picnic. They have lots of stuff for the kids. The older kids (7 and 10) have had a boring summer as we've been pretty occupied with the baby. I couldn't possibly make them miss it. Besides, this is the first time anyone from work will see the baby. Family priorities, I'm sure you understand. ;)

[Steelrat]

A belated congratulations on the little one. :cheers:

The 28th is also my companies annual picnic. They have lots of stuff for the kids. The older kids (7 and 10) have had a boring summer as we've been pretty occupied with the baby. I couldn't possibly make them miss it. Besides, this is the first time anyone from work will see the baby. Family priorities, I'm sure you understand. ;)

Well, now that you have elaborated, I understand ;) The kid excuse by itself was weak, but family functions always take priority :D Im balancing out playing on the 28th by taking the family to Great America on the 29th.

[hitech]

I'm balancing out playing on the 28th by taking the family to Great America on the 29th.

That's usually how I do it!


:cheers:

[vf-xx]

Eh, I hadn't see this type of situation at either SEAO or TexBall. As a matter of fact, they were begging teams to cheat just so there would be a penalty. If I am not mistaken it was Miscue that got it:)


Yep that would have been Q.

[paint magnet]

I'll trust Deadeye before Josh...or before anyone who writes for a magazine, for that matter. I can't remember how long it's been since I've seen an accurate, correct, or honest article / review in any of them. Sorry Josh, but I thought being an AO member, you might be different (guess I should have known from you advertising the Psycho Ballistics "Auto-Rocker", which was 'loosely based' off an Autococker :rolleyes: ).

[tyrion2323]

Oh goodness - people we should all just chill out. My belief is that both 1stDeadEye and Josh2Xtremes are both telling the story as they remember it. Let's not all massacre Josh here simply because he told the story the way he did.

Here's the reason I'm sticking up for him. I've been on the side of the field when I've seen people play on with hits. Maybe they didn't know, maybe the did - that's not for me to know. But I've become pretty frustrated with the cheating scene myself. I know that if I were in Josh's position, I would have probably reacted fairly similarly to him.

Just a thought. I'm not taking any sides, just looking at one perspective.

[Albinonewt]

It was a stand up game. I remember being at the sidelines watching it. Deadeye thought he popped Dayspring as he was doing his tape run and it turned out he hadn't. Then Dayspring got him on his arm while in the middle of a run and it took a second for him to notice the hit. He left the game and that was the end of it.


And, not for nothing, Josh may be an exceptionally honest ref, but his attention was obviously elswhere (as we have the photo to prove he was concentrating on more then reffing), so I don't think it's out of line to say that he could easily have made a mistaken call while his attention was diverted and there was no reason for Deadeye to not ask where he was hit. I'd prefer to see the hit before I walk off, especially if the ref isn't in my bunker checking the hit. When it's from any distance it's possible to make a mistake.

[barberjohn]

I'll trust Deadeye before Josh...or before anyone who writes for a magazine, for that matter. I can't remember how long it's been since I've seen an accurate, correct, or honest article / review in any of them. Sorry Josh, but I thought being an AO member, you might be different (guess I should have known from you advertising the Psycho Ballistics "Auto-Rocker", which was 'loosely based' off an Autococker :rolleyes: ).
that was pretty harsh, and besides, i doubt josh has anything to do with the advertising part of the mag. hes a journalist, not a salesman.

[PissedGodzilla]

QUOTED FOR TRUTH

I would back up 1DE any day. He has never given me a reason to ever say otherwise... the damn right wing wacko that he is... :rofl: :rofl: j/k 1de.... :dance: :hail:



It was a stand up game. I remember being at the sidelines watching it. Deadeye thought he popped Dayspring as he was doing his tape run and it turned out he hadn't. Then Dayspring got him on his arm while in the middle of a run and it took a second for him to notice the hit. He left the game and that was the end of it.


And, not for nothing, Josh may be an exceptionally honest ref, but his attention was obviously elswhere (as we have the photo to prove he was concentrating on more then reffing), so I don't think it's out of line to say that he could easily have made a mistaken call while his attention was diverted and there was no reason for Deadeye to not ask where he was hit. I'd prefer to see the hit before I walk off, especially if the ref isn't in my bunker checking the hit. When it's from any distance it's possible to make a mistake.

[1stdeadeye]

Seeing as how I put the offending ball on 1DE's arm, I feel compelled to back up Scott's story. I hit his arm and tucked back in. He launched a few at me and I yelled, "Scott, check your arm." He did and left the field.

Scott's a stand up player and I will back him up 100%.

Thank's Nick!

Maybe we saw the same thing different ways Josh, but first off you were a bystander not a ref. If I yelled at you, I am sorry. I do remember Nick calling me out though and not you. Nick made fun of me for after the game.


Please please please have another AO SC Unka Phil! It was sooo much fun! The road trip made it even better!!!!!!! :hail:

[1stdeadeye]

And sometimes, when you are caught up in the game, you tend to be loud. Not because you need to yell, but because you have your adrenaline pumping.



I don't need adrenaline. I am always loud! ;)

[coyote]

A second read of that article angers me further. The AO game gets blasted for "cheating", when that conclusion is matter of perspective.

NOWHERE is any form of the word cheat used when the author describes the illegal DM4's pulled from the Legacy/ Ironmen game.

Now cheating is about intent as well as action. We know that 1DE got hit. What he intended to communicate after that hit is subject to debate (I believe him). You can't debate the fact that still more pro markers were pulled from an event for being illegal. Since those markers were in fact set up by the players or their techs I will go out on a limb (a rather sturdy one) and state that both the action and the intention of cheating were present in that situation.

It is obvious to me which side of the bread is buttered. Josh seems to complacently condone this type of cheating. I am further disappointed.

[nastymag]

wow ... you guys are really sensitive about things arent you.
i think this is a misinterpration , do you really think that josh thought to himself " hey, he lit me up , so i am gonna trash talk a whole AO event " ?. Josh posts here, and he is a standup guy. so are his articles . and to those saying not to ref if you arent a ref, i am so used to having players ref to help out the refs ( actually probably just to make sure the other team doesnt get away with anything). i reffed just as much as i played at Socal VS Norcal AO day.and yea i saw playing and a little bit of everyform of cheating. but it wasnt that much. but let me tell you most was while i was reffing at i saw these things , when you attenion isnt on playing. im sure some of it wasnt intentional , ive done runs, gotten hit and not realized it and argued with the ref. what i am trying to say is that most of us are human(i hope), we make mistakes , we have opinions.
and you guys are already writting off some one because they misinterprated events in a GAME !

yea from what i read 1stdeadeye wasnt cheating .....

but you guys are calling for josh head . be rational guys.

[cphilip]

...
.... I saw as much blatant cheating, wiping and playing on at this AO day as I did at the last tournament I attended, but hey, it was better than a sharp stick in the eye.

[trevorjk]

.... I saw as much blatant cheating, wiping and playing on at this AO day as I did at the last tournament I attended, but hey, it was better than a sharp stick in the eye.

or an EMPTY BEER!!!! OFF TO THE FRIDGE

[Josh2Xtremes]

Ok guys, I just got back in here and read all this, and I hate that it's happened this way. While it was never my intention to upset anyone or cast a bad light over the SCAO event at which I had a blast with some great people, I can certainly see, upon further review, how my statements could be construed that way.

I had a long post all prepared defending my side of things and why I said what I said and did what I did, but that's not what's important here and we're well past that. What I saw I saw, what I've done I've done, and I called it like I saw it. I can't "un-piss anyone off" and I can't turn back time, but I CAN be man enough to admit that I accentuated the negative in my statement on my website, something I hadn't intended to do. What's more important to me is that I don't lose any AO'ers as friends, because I value my experiences with all of them and don't want to be a point of contention here, at a place full of good people. In that spirit I'm willing to say "I'm sorry" to those that might have taken offense to what I've said, "I'm watching you" to those who I saw cheating and the like, and change what I stated on the website to something less inflamatory.

I'm not a big fan of controversy or confrontation, but sometimes it happens...especially in a job like mine. However, unlike many in journalism, I'm not out to make enemies and push buttons in people, and if I did that here, it wasn't my intention. This is paintball, we're supposed to get along and and have fun, and the entire sport will get a lot further with all of us as friends, than as adversaries. I'll make the changes, shake a few hands, buy a few drinks, and hopefully we can all go back to having fun and put this behind us.
Josh

[trevorjk]

hopefully we can all go back to having fun and put this behind us.
Josh

and more beer! it solves everything!

[Automaggin2]

and more beer! it solves everything!




:cheers:


Put it all in the past. Mistakes happen. I know 1DE, and when i read the article and saw it was him, I coudlnt believe it. Scott is a easy going person, I have never seen him argue or cheat, :dance:

[tyrion2323]

Well written. I commend you, Josh. And since I won't be able to meet you in person, you can paypal me the money that you would have spent on buying me a drink.

:tard:

[Z-man]

You know for just having read all this thread, I must say I like this Josh character. His post above was mature and formal. Right or wrong, this thread, and how it was handled by both sides is a fine example of the quality of people that make AO and the AO Days a league of their own. Come out to NorCal SoCal if you are on the West Coast ;)

[1stdeadeye]

Ok guys, I just got back in here and read all this, and I hate that it's happened this way. While it was never my intention to upset anyone or cast a bad light over the SCAO event at which I had a blast with some great people, I can certainly see, upon further review, how my statements could be construed that way.

I had a long post all prepared defending my side of things and why I said what I said and did what I did, but that's not what's important here and we're well past that. What I saw I saw, what I've done I've done, and I called it like I saw it. I can't "un-piss anyone off" and I can't turn back time, but I CAN be man enough to admit that I accentuated the negative in my statement on my website, something I hadn't intended to do. What's more important to me is that I don't lose any AO'ers as friends, because I value my experiences with all of them and don't want to be a point of contention here, at a place full of good people. In that spirit I'm willing to say "I'm sorry" to those that might have taken offense to what I've said, "I'm watching you" to those who I saw cheating and the like, and change what I stated on the website to something less inflamatory.

I'm not a big fan of controversy or confrontation, but sometimes it happens...especially in a job like mine. However, unlike many in journalism, I'm not out to make enemies and push buttons in people, and if I did that here, it wasn't my intention. This is paintball, we're supposed to get along and and have fun, and the entire sport will get a lot further with all of us as friends, than as adversaries. I'll make the changes, shake a few hands, buy a few drinks, and hopefully we can all go back to having fun and put this behind us.
Josh

Thank you for the changes. I now understand the stick in the eye comment. I did not know that you were injured.

As for the "I'm watching you" comment, please do!!! I try to be as honorable a player as possible. That is why the story hurt so much. I was playing that particular game with a group of friends. As I said before, Nick was the one who called me out. He did not let me forget that the entire 10 hour ride back to NJ! I am a big guy and sometimes don't feel every hit. I am also a loud guy so I hope you believe me when I say if I was yelling it you, it was not in the spirit of argueing. Also that picture you took of me was awesome, so keep taking them. Hopefully there will not be a lot of balls breaking on me in them. The picture of me in the header is your picture by the way.

If I see you at AO SC III, I'll buy you the first beer.

[Creative Mayhem]

Don't sweat it Josh... you didn't piss anyone off. We all wub you :D

[bofh]

Josh, Let me get this straight. If I'm reading the old copy right.

SEAO was better then a sharp stick in the eye... because you got a sharp stick in the eye? :)

Ouch, I hope that came out ok.

[Thordic]

*pokes bofh in the eye with a sharp stick*

Buah ha ha.

And I agree, beer solves everything. Unless its real bad. Thats what we have whiskey for.

[wyn1370]

.... I saw as much blatant cheating, wiping and playing on at this AO day as I did at the last tournament I attended, but hey, it was better than a sharp stick in the eye.

I'm still peaved about this, great so he went back and changed the narative to the picture. But what SEAO day did you attend. Sure there may have been a missunderstanding between you and deadeye, but that by no means justifies this comment. Even the refs have posted that they did not witness any blatent cheating, sure playing on happens if you don't see or feel the hit, but they even said that people where calling themselves out before they even had a chance to make a call. To compare SEAO day to a tournament is a load of crap. It's not often you see such high class, stand up ball being played as what happened in SC.

[Prairie]

Even the refs have posted that they did not witness any blatent cheating

Really?

Refs didnt see cheating...thats odd...

[Alley]

I say you alll let by gones be by gones..kiss make up and play some dang paintball...its about the sport, not the politics. Remember the fun of the game! :cheers:

[Albinonewt]

I'll buy a few drinks


If you're buying until forgiven you then I'm incensed!!! :)

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

...the stick in the eye part got me a bit curious...how on earth did that happen?

[coyote]

I am glad to see this topic addressed by Josh.

Sometimes the wrtten word is a difficult source of communication. It doesn't have the added value of tone, inflection. Top that off with the fact that none of us had his experience.

My gripe was simply this. I consider myself old school. I play the best honest game I can, and i expect others to do so. I find the lable of a "cheater" one of the most odious and in insulting a person can be labled with.

I respect the Josh has the backbone to apologize. I also admire the tact and grace with which he offers the apology.

Josh...When your wallet is light from buying the first round fret not. Anytime you are in my neck of the woods I would be honored to buy you a round.

With that this AOer raises his glass.

[trevorjk]

I say you alll let by gones be by gones..kiss make up and play some dang paintball...its about the sport, not the politics. Remember the fun of the game! :cheers:


Alley i dont quite know if you have expereinced this or not... but 2 guys kissing and making out... er up. its not the thing most people today want to see. how ever if your more then willing to do the kissing, and your name stays true, then hell im getting in line :ninja: :tard:

mmmm beer :cheers:

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

Alley i dont quite know if you have expereinced this or not... but 2 guys kissing and making out... er up. its not the thing most people today want to see. how ever if your more then willing to do the kissing, and your name stays true, then hell im getting in line :ninja: :tard:

mmmm beer :cheers:

lol now this should be hilarious! im bringing the camera :D

[Alley]

Well, I really think the kissing would be better than the sharp stick in the eye eh? But, if to let by gones be by gones i will sacrafice myself for all the kissing!! :p Because making up is fun to do!

[trevorjk]

SWEET!

I get first in line! :D

[Alley]

SWEET!

I get first in line! :D


Not to worry, it would be a short line

[trevorjk]

Not to worry, it would be a short line

well then i guess ill have to get back in line :p

[FreakBaller12]

you guys worry me sometimes...

[trevorjk]

you guys worry me sometimes...

haha, me worry people :wow: that cant be possible! im perfect! :D :p

[Alley]

I've never been kissed by someone who was perfect before....this could be interesting ;)
But, I think we are overly losing site of the topic here. What we were arguing about?

[trevorjk]

actually we are not argueing anymore... from what i understand everything has been fixed and ties have been mended :)

[cphilip]

actually we are not argueing anymore... from what i understand everything has been fixed and ties have been mended :)


Not really.... the issue of the slam of the event was never addressed. Not certain it ever will be to my satisfaction. Nor could it be. I will let it stand that for some reason never explained it is what he wants it to be. And from my perspective, I find the explanation lacking and weak on all counts ... and almost ignored in large parts.

However I agree...There is no argument. Just opinions is all. No reason to continue it further. Pleanty of time was given to correct it and so no need to let it go on. I am done with the issue.