Assault at Cali. paintball field, "Aftershock" player arrested

[Tyger]

I'm kinda surprised nobody has talked about this. Ahh, heck with it. I'll take the heat again.

As posted at Flagpull.com (http://flagpull.com/viewarticle.php?aid=104&PHPSESSID=ee602a25714faa686aa4c1ef56bdf16e)

Aftershock player arrested...
Aug 09 2004 [ Philip ]

It seems tempers were rolling in the west...

It appears that Fish, longtime Aftershock member, witnessed an altercation on the field at Outlaw Paintball in Redlands, California and then took actions into his own hands.

'Player 1' and 'Player 2' were arguing about a bunker move in the snake (who shot who)...'Player 1' then shoved 'Player 2', 'Player 2' shoved 'Player 1' back. Apparently all that Fish saw was 'Player 2' shoving 'Player 1' back.

Eyewitnesses say that Fish hit 'Player 2' in the head/neck from behind with his tank/regulator. The injuries suffered were mildly severe from what we have gathered, blood was drawn.

Police arrived on the scene shortly after the event and escorted Fish away, stay tuned to Flagpull for more of this drama later.

Other reports are sketchy. Apparently the victim is a member of the "Organised Crime" rookie squad. I can't find any information about his status or condition, however.

Opinions?

-Tyger

[stondroopy]

someones gonna do a lil time

[guysdaman]

Idiot deserves whatever he gets! Hitting someone with a tank reg...jeesh! :tard:

[frop]

Woulda sucked REAL bad for 'Fish' if he cracked/damaged the reg & boom. It's just retarded, that's the only word for it. To be so enraged by seeing SOMEONE ELSE (apparently totally unrelated) in an altercation to pick up his $300-500 tank, probably still filled, & start hitting people with it is childish and ignorant beyond description. It is simply that, assault, possibly more and I feel absolutely no remorse for whatever sentence he may receive. Now granted, I'd have broken up the fight, but reasonably and without bashing some guy with MY TANK!! :mad: :cuss: More to the point, he should have simply stood back and watched the other two players get kicked out/banned from the field. This kind of crap makes paintball look bad, REAL bad, it only gives more ammo to soccer moms & bloody politicians looking for a 'cause'. Other negative events such as CO2 bottles unscrewing from the valves can be attributed to unprrofessional/non-qualified airsmiths,inattention, etc., but THIS incident is simply unacceptable. Frankly, I hope I never meet him because he might, while I'm being rowdy with my friends, sneak up behind me with a monkey wrench and proceed to bash my skull in. Pathetic, just pathetic.

edited for grammar (probably missed a couple more too :( )

[ZapTheMad]

I hope most of us play this sport for fun. This story is just sad. If they ever let him play in a tourney again, it will be too soon.

[d00d13]

Man, how could you put your gun in such danger. I treat mine like a baby, so you
wouldn't see me flinging it at someone's head. :nono:

but seriously, there's gotta be something else to the story. It sounds too caveman
to just walk up to a fight and bash one of them with an object. The picture just
doesn't seem right. I can understand if there were mental issues with it, but
an Aftershock member? I'm sure Fish had good intentions, however didn't come
up with a more logical plan.

[Automaggot68]

Good lord, that's horrible.

[Carbon]

man, wheres the honor? The professional attitude?

[eg0_Slayer]

the story does seem a little one-sided. sounds to me like "player 1" was an aftershock teammate, and fish was standing up for him. although hitting him with a tank was obviously not the best decision, it was probably an impulse(not the marker)...don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify his actions, just understand them.

[Raven001]

bu I'm sure Fish had good intentions, however didn't come
up with a more logical plan.

Eyewitnesses say that Fish hit 'Player 2' in the head/neck from behind with his tank/regulator. The injuries suffered were mildly severe from what we have gathered, blood was drawn.

Some good intentions eh? At least when I was playing they came at you from the front...

[Crighton]

So is that considerd assualt with a weapon ?

Would be in WI if the tank had been a brick.

[peewee]

:tard: Part of why I left tourny ball. :tard: If I remember right he's been involved in a couple scraps on the field in the past. Sad thing is they confinscate what ever was used as a weapon. :cry:

[frop]

The sad thing is that players like him are even allowed NEAR a paintball field. Even now it's difficult for us to shake the 'war' & 'dangerous' image so stupidly held by the uninformed. We don't need this *POOF* not now, not ever.

Edited to make sense

Re-edited to remove your filter bypass. We do not allow cussing in any form here. Army

[mrhooie]

you know, there's GOT to be something more to it

Sure there's blood drawn, I can appreciate that. but there's GOT to be more to it. (ie - the amount of "shoving back", the approach Fish took - could it be an accident that this guy got bludgeoned?)

[Halliday]

Trying to break up a fight would be one thing. Trying to kill a guy with a tank is ......well not very smart. There might be more to the story, but it sounds like he elevated the fight and will hopefully be punished for it. It does not sound like self-defense when a guy gets hit in the back of the head.

[swanster]

it was probably an impulse(not the marker)

thank god no, he would have killed him lol :rofl:

but seriously, that is stupid. He could have really done some damage

[Bulldog]

Heh, it's such a melow place usually...

[Paladin]

Frankly, I hope that anyone that would hit someone with a tank, regardless of why, gets taken down real hard.
It should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,,, and then some. :cuss:

[AGDlover]

fish allways seemed like he had a gangster attidude. hmmmm guess it cought up with him but we'll have to see where this goes

[LudavicoSoldier]

What a jackass. :mad:

Lets hope he doesnt get a slap on the wrist and go right back to playing "pro". Honestly, if you can't put forth a professional attitude on/off the field, why even bother calling yourself a professional...

This just disgusts me.

[Paladin]

What a jackass. :mad:

Lets hope he doesnt get a slap on the wrist and go right back to playing "pro". Honestly, if you can't put forth a professional attitude on/off the field, why even bother calling yourself a professional...

This just disgusts me.

DITTO !!!

Problem, is that he probably thinks that is the right "pro" attitude to put forth, and may even expect to be praised for his actions by the rest of the team.

[Pickle]

Problem, is that he probably thinks that is the right "pro" attitude to put forth, and may even expect to be praised for his actions by the rest of the team.

I will go one further and predict praise for his actions from players. pbnation

[ghideon]

At least if it winds up in court the Judge won't care if he's "pro" or not.

[mrhooie]

Well, it's nice to see that I'm the only guy thinking there's got to be another side to this story (or the whole version)

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I get sick and tired of the "internet gang rapes" i see happening all the time

[d00d13]

Some good intentions eh? At least when I was playing they came at you from the front...

eh, can't trust the news sometimes...and the good intentions was probably to help one of the players...obviously player 1, but did in a very horrible way. Either that or he's just one of those bar fighters and just wants to bash something when he sees a fight. "BAM BAM!"

[TDonovan]

Dumb move...

[hAppy]

Damn, that makes paintball look like a war game now. Hitting someone with your gun....
Well he deserves to get some time, dumb move

[Chronobreak]

pwned :ninja:

[scrumpy]

I have a question, did he just hit him with a tank that could represent say a brick or did "fish" melee the guy with his paintball gun that could represent the stock of a rifle?

[fire1811]

Well, it's nice to see that I'm the only guy thinking there's got to be another side to this story (or the whole version)

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I get sick and tired of the "internet gang rapes" i see happening all the time

pbnation has a thread in pbnews i believe

numorous witnesses and all the same story.

although im sure someone will make up another side.

i really dont care what happend. there is NO EXCUSE for what he did.

good intentions my *&# your smoking someone in the head with a tank......what other outcome could have happend????

[thecavemankevin]

It sounds too caveman to just walk up to a fight and bash one of them with an object.


what'd you say bout me? Im'a kill you mofo!!! watch out, i have a nice old steal 47ci and comin after you! :shooting:
:)

seems to me that too many players nowa days just don't have the maturity to handle highly competetive environments and loose gracefully.

[Pickle]

Well, it's nice to see that I'm the only guy thinking there's got to be another side to this story (or the whole version)

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I get sick and tired of the "internet gang rapes" i see happening all the time

As someone who is familiar with California criminal law I will tell you that if he was arrested he screwed up. Sure he may have had the best intentions but if he was arrested and booked he screwed up. To me the arrest is the second half of the story.

As far as the "internet gang rapes"...I agree. My comment was on "pro" players in general.

[Pickle]

seems to me that too many players nowa days just don't have the maturity to handle highly competetive environments and loose gracefully.

When you win, say nothing.

When you loose, say less.

[tony3]

I will go one further and predict praise for his actions from players. pbnation

Are you stupid? Maybe you shouldn't judge people before you see what they have to say about it? Their is a thread in paintball news on pbn and see what they have to say about it. About 2 people stuck up for him, and about 100 or so said he was an idiot.

[mrhooie]

As someone who is familiar with California criminal law I will tell you that if he was arrested he screwed up. Sure he may have had the best intentions but if he was arrested and booked he screwed up. To me the arrest is the second half of the story.

As far as the "internet gang rapes"...I agree. My comment was on "pro" players in general.


arrests and convictions are two different things


like i said, if I'm wrong, I'll gladly appologize. and thans for recognizing my last comment :)

[JrnyFan1985]

this article was too sketchy to really give the circumstances of what went on. all it said was their was "shoving", maybe there was some other factors involved. Anyway, I actually like Fish for doing this. Who knows maybe he stood up for a kid who was getting punked by second player? For all you people who thinks he shouldn't get a "slap on the wrist", do you even know what that is? It's a lot worse than what most people think. It's not just a $50 fine and an apology from the court: It's 200 hours community service (you gotta serve within six months on top of your other job), $1000 fine, 5 years probation, and a 3 month suspended sentence (meaning if you screw up at all with the law within those 5 years, they have a right to toss your *** in the can). Sorry, but I just wanted to make that clear.

[fire1811]

they maybe people should think before hitting other people in the head with paintball tanks?????

[JrnyFan1985]

no, just don't pass judgement on a guy just because you read a 3 paragraph article at flagpull.

[Steelrat]

this article was too sketchy to really give the circumstances of what went on. all it said was their was "shoving", maybe there was some other factors involved. Anyway, I actually like Fish for doing this. Who knows maybe he stood up for a kid who was getting punked by second player? For all you people who thinks he shouldn't get a "slap on the wrist", do you even know what that is? It's a lot worse than what most people think. It's not just a $50 fine and an apology from the court: It's 200 hours community service (you gotta serve within six months on top of your other job), $1000 fine, 5 years probation, and a 3 month suspended sentence (meaning if you screw up at all with the law within those 5 years, they have a right to toss your *** in the can). Sorry, but I just wanted to make that clear.

Standing up for a kid being punked means grabbing the other kid, getting between them, etc. It does NOT mean hitting someone in the head with your air tank.

[fire1811]

no, just don't pass judgement on a guy just because you read a 3 paragraph article at flagpull.

theres a difference if he would have stepped in and threw a few punches, ok fine. tank to the back of the peanut....nah no way

[JrnyFan1985]

theres a difference if he would have stepped in and threw a few punches, ok fine. tank to the back of the peanut....nah no way
sure it stopped the altercation pretty quickly though didn't it? Probably also did less harm than throwing those punches too.

[JrnyFan1985]

Standing up for a kid being punked means grabbing the other kid, getting between them, etc. It does NOT mean hitting someone in the head with your air tank.
could he have been provoked? we just don't know because the article was just a speculative article. I haven't checked, but I don't think that flagpull released an update to this story either. So until then, don't condemn the guy just because you have a really sketchy article about a fight.

[fire1811]

so say your fighting player A over.....doesnt matter, your having words with player A and he pushes you, you push back player A's buddy comes up behind you, smokes you with a tanks, your cool with this right because player A's buddy didnt have all the facts yet and it ended the fighting quickly?

[JrnyFan1985]

haha, see exactly my point: was player "A" his buddy? was player "B" his buddy? did A shove or hit "Fish"? The article doesn't say. The article paints a really bad picture over a situation that maybe was completely different than originally put.

[fire1811]

all im saying is there is no way that a tank to the head was justifiable.

[AclowN]

Another possibility of the "slap on the wrist" is him being banned from playing/associating with the sport for a determined amount of time (usually the entire probationary period in other circumstances and different crimes). that would do alot more to him than some jail time i bet, being free to do everything except what you love (just assuming he loves the game being a pro at it and all). in any case what so ever, violent action was not the course to take, it is a misrepresentation of the sport when something like that hits the headlines, and thus bad for all of paintball. you want a sport you can fight in and not get in trouble...... play Hockey :)


So is that considerd assualt with a weapon ?

Would be in WI if the tank had been a brick.


by law, ANY object used in a violent manner intended to do serious injury or bodily harm or possible death is considered a weapon...

a paintball marker, if used with intent to cause serious injury (EXAMPLE: shooting frozen paintballs at someone, or shooting at someone off a field without a mask on, or bashing them with your tank in the back of the head.) changes a device used in a game into a potentially lethal weapon, and in these cases can be considered assault. take a bowling ball and hit someone with it at a bowling alley, you just attacked someone with a deadly weapon, try and hit someone with a car, a deadly weapon... its all circumstantial depending on how an object is used.

[hAppy]

Standing up for a kid being punked means grabbing the other kid, getting between them, etc. It does NOT mean hitting someone in the head with your air tank.
Agreed. If you are going to "rescue" a kid who is being ONLY shoved, than you should just step in between, rather than come from behind a crack them in the head. It is just uncalled for.

[brianlojeck]

sure it stopped the altercation pretty quickly though didn't it? Probably also did less harm than throwing those punches too.

Have you ever actually hit sombody?

I'm a big dude. 6'6" tall, over 300 lbs, I can bench press over 225 without even exercising. I've studied Muay Thai kickboxing. Even I couldn't cause as much damage with a few punches as my wife could do with an air tank from behind.

That's a serious one-shot-one-kill situation if you swing hard enough, and hit in the right place. (or maybe that's the WRONG place)

[LeatherPants]

Well I talked to one of the guys from Organized Crime Pro.(still debating if I want to join them)

Anyways. It was Sean from OC Rookie that was hit by Fish. He's some 16-17 yr old kid still a minor.

Apparently Sean and some other player both hit the snake and shot each other out. The usual "who shot who first" argument happend. Pushing did start.

Fish was not even on the Field and came in and hit Sean in the head. From what I was told it was baseball bat style to the forehead. He was bleeding pretty bad but I forgot to ask if he was sent to the hospital.

Now I don't care who started what but you don't club someone on the field. You push them apart or maybe tackle one to the ground.

I agree with Brianlojek. I'm 5'8" 155 lbs can bench over 315 lbs and take Tae Kwon Do. A tank to the head will do way more damage then I could.

If I was Sean's parents not only would i go after the guy for money I'd have a restraining order placed to not let him set foot on any field for a year or two.

[Richter]

Maybe he has been playing too much Halo (Xbox game). :D

aftershock=hoodlums

One of the videos i own has a guy from aftershock talking about how he got out of jail just in the nick of time to play world cup.

don't they have salm on thier team?

just my opinion though

[tony3]

Yeah Salm plays for aftershock, so does kenny klamper, the guy that got tackled by some refs in a game against dynasty a year or 2 ago.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Trying to break up a fight would be one thing. Trying to kill a guy with a tank is ......well not very smart. There might be more to the story, but it sounds like he elevated the fight and will hopefully be punished for it. It does not sound like self-defense when a guy gets hit in the back of the head.

Agreed

[1stdeadeye]

You can not defend hitting someone from behind. Although if Salm were to break it up, he would have had to run into the woods first! :ninja:

[spacedtedybear]

Lets see; Aggrevated assault with a deadly weapon against a minor. Yeah that's grounds for jail time under any and all circumstances. If he doesn't get banned from tourneys, it only goes to show that paintball isn't a legitimized sport yet.

[davidnj]

While I agree that finding out what exactly happened would be good, I can say with 99.9999% confidence that a shot to the head with a tank (be it front, back, side) is always uncalled for.

The internet is full of great information but searching for 'fish' doesnt get me too far here :cry: so does anybody know his real name? With that it's usually pretty easy to find a report of the incident. :argh:

[Ratzo]

You can not defend hitting someone from behind. Although if Salm were to break it up, he would have had to run into the woods first! :ninja:
LOL! :rofl:

The tank to the head was way out of line.

[Tyger]

does anybody know his real name? With that it's usually pretty easy to find a report of the incident. :argh:

http://nxlpaintball.com/Team-Page-Chicago.html is the Aftershock roster, the official one anyway. I don't know more than that.

-Tyger

[Paladin]

IF it went down as described and he ends up in the right attitude adjustment facility, internet gang rape may not be his greatest worry. :eek:

[Pickle]

Are you stupid? Maybe you shouldn't judge people before you see what they have to say about it? Their is a thread in paintball news on pbn and see what they have to say about it. About 2 people stuck up for him, and about 100 or so said he was an idiot.

Wow relax. I didn't mean to offend you and your "peeps" :rolleyes:

However, don't ask why I was there (http://www.pbnation.com), I don't know myself. But, I thought this was funny. Well not funny :D, but funny :rolleyes: . Well not funny :rolleyes:, but funny :mad: . I could be wrong but I believe one team was involved in both incidents.

Link to pretty confusing and inconsequential thread, actually (http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=612093)

[PaintballSmurf13]

Cali field...sounds about right. I ref at a field here and play at an extremely competative field sometimes (Extreme in Modesto, CA- owned by Rich Telford) , so i'm not surprised. :rolleyes:
-Ryan

[JUGGAJOSH]

I can't stand cowards like this. I see it all the time, people walk around actually believing they're tough because the suck punched sombody. THIS GUY SUCKERED HIM WITH A BLUNT OBJECT. No doubt he'll have to do some time. If not I'll lose what little faith I have in our justice system

[trevorjk]

and then paintballers wonder why other people dont take paintball seriously. thats just sad, assault and battery, deadly weopon? hrm i dont know cali laws but where am living hes looking for some time, and he very well deserves it

[Pickle]

Cali laws and reality are different. If this is his first offense and there is no serious injury = no jail time. Sorry.