How will agd market when 30bps is

[Carbon]

attained by other guns without shootdown? With graphic proff of course. What about 26bps or 27bps. What angle will AGD go for? Weight, consistency, "feel"

[p8nt_junkie]

I know that marketing a marker for bps is all the rage now but the guns are really only capable of that high rof with BOUNCE. I still have yet to see a human being pull a trigger on semi-auto and hit higher than 20 BPS for longer than 3 seconds. After that ppl just stasrt to get out of their rhythm. Besides a bouncin' gun is gonna be pulled anyway. Some ppl can just shoot semi-autos faster than others; it happens. My brother can shoot my dad's LCD Angel at 14 cps with ONE finger (can you tell I'm proud of him?).

The point is it really isn't going to matter in a few years, some lawsuit is going to pop up and we'll all go back to shooting pumps in the woods and run when the cops come for us. We just don't do enough self regulation when it comes to safety.

[Carazy]

agd has said that they are focusing on the scenario market. The hAir trigger will also be nice for those who want to do mechanical.

[shartley]

Quality is always a good marketing strategy… as long as the company can back it up.

Look at cars. It is not just speed that sells a car. And paintball markers will be the same way. I actually think it has been that way for a while now anyways.

The capabilities of low, medium, and high end markers today are really not as great as some would like to think anyways. Over the years the gaps in performance have become smaller and smaller. And now days almost any marker properly (or improperly depending on how you look at it) set up can outshoot the loading systems available at this time.

This makes the real push not one of “marker speed” but that of “loader speed”.

My belief is that the battle between markers will become one simply of cosmetics, features, and hype. I think “speed” will become a moot point in the big picture…. until the loading systems surpass the abilities of the markers they are loading. And I feel this makes the “speed” battle one that has switched from the marker manufacturers to the loader manufacturers.

[Lurker27]

Guys, technology has been at a virtual standstill for 2+ years.

We're maxed out in pretty much every category. Balls can't physcially handle being loaded faster than the qloader.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

SHartley is right. AGD makes top-quality kit. And Tom has seen the light, and is focussing on the scenario market. There is less hype there, I think. AGD will be competing with Tippmann and WGP, again. In terms of reliability and performance Tom's markers stack up very well against that competition, and the clean lines make them look good, too.

[Xyxyll]

The RT valve is still the fastest recharging regulator on the market. Industry still has to beat that "old" technology before you'll get 30+bps w/o shootdown.

[Wc Keep]

Quality is always a good marketing strategy… as long as the company can back it up.

Look at cars. It is not just speed that sells a car. And paintball markers will be the same way. I actually think it has been that way for a while now anyways.

.

while i agree with you in this because any gun i use must be able to withstand great vigors, this will not sell as many guns as say marketing a gun that is blindingly fast. look at timmys and matrices. the timmy is a gun that goes down all the time, and the trix is a marker that is very tempermental, i know this from having a teammate who owns both. both have quality issues but people will still flock to buy them. why because with ease you can hit 18 bps. and thats all people care about now-a-days.

in my opinion agd should make a new gun and market how light it is and how efficient it is. because with the right electronics the rt valve can do wonders.

[xXHavokXx]

He must have a bad trix. Out of the 8 guys on my team 5 are rocking DM4s, the only thing that has brought them down is worn detents, other than that the guns are solid if you lube them every five cases or so.

[Wc Keep]

no it has an oring problem where it chews threw them. and this guy maintains his guns very well.

[Cyberious]

Quality is always a good marketing strategy… as long as the company can back it up.

Look at cars. It is not just speed that sells a car. And paintball markers will be the same way. I actually think it has been that way for a while now anyways.

The capabilities of low, medium, and high end markers today are really not as great as some would like to think anyways. Over the years the gaps in performance have become smaller and smaller. And now days almost any marker properly (or improperly depending on how you look at it) set up can outshoot the loading systems available at this time.

This makes the real push not one of “marker speed” but that of “loader speed”.

My belief is that the battle between markers will become one simply of cosmetics, features, and hype. I think “speed” will become a moot point in the big picture…. until the loading systems surpass the abilities of the markers they are loading. And I feel this makes the “speed” battle one that has switched from the marker manufacturers to the loader manufacturers.

Very True...

There is also the issue that WILL be addressed one day of how fast is too fast. You can quote me on this: there will come a time when one of the overshooting monkeys is gonna light up some kid seriously hurting him (or God forbid worse) and the attorneys will take care of the rest. I'm just surprised it hasn't happened yet. At that point we may all be capped in the 10-13 bps range, maybe even slower.

[richie]

pardon my ignorance but if one of the first three or so balls hit your target, you don't need the other 13 or so.May as well get you a super soaker and fill it with liquid paint.I am lucky if I get off more than 10 shots a sec but I do find what I am shooting at and that makes me happy :) peace out

[SlartyBartFast]

At that point we may all be capped in the 10-13 bps range, maybe even slower.

Oh my GOD not as slow as that. :eek: :eek: :cry:

:rofl: :rofl:

The industry once agreed on 13bps (or was it 16?). :rolleyes:

If that was a signed agreement, then those that signed guarenteed they'll lose any lawsuit relating to injury due to higher than 13 bps.

Lower BPS would be good for the game. Without 'ropes' of paint, backmen wouldn't be able to lane and the whole game would open up to movement and skill. :clap:

A good first step is the Xball rules changes that make 15 bps the maximum allowed.

[Cyberious]

pardon my ignorance but if one of the first three or so balls hit your target, you don't need the other 13 or so.May as well get you a super soaker and fill it with liquid paint.I am lucky if I get off more than 10 shots a sec but I do find what I am shooting at and that makes me happy :) peace out

Yeah it is a bit silly and I have to admit to it that I partially subscribe to the insane ball per second hysteria. I also miss my pump days and do occasionally take a pump to play rec-ball. I'm still on one of Florida's best scenario teams (Welter Skelter). When we do get a chance to go to a game together we all use pumps.

It is interesting that I'm struggling to decide which marker to bring to Shatnerball. Do I bring my TacOne and enjoy carrying a light rugged marker or do I bring my X-Mag to ensure that I'm not out gunned. Rough decsion. I think it is a direct result of media hype. I have no qualms whatsoever walking on a field with a pump that I can maybe get 2-3 bps out of and yet I don't want to walk on a field with a marker that will only do 10 bps instead of the X-mag that will do maybe 16-18 in my hands. Maybe I'll open up a poll in the Shatnerball thread.

[tony3]

Quality is always a good marketing strategy… as long as the company can back it up.Look at cars. It is not just speed that sells a car. And paintball markers will be the same way. I actually think it has been that way for a while now anyways.
The capabilities of low, medium, and high end markers today are really not as great as some would like to think anyways. Over the years the gaps in performance have become smaller and smaller. And now days almost any marker properly (or improperly depending on how you look at it) set up can outshoot the loading systems available at this time.
This makes the real push not one of “marker speed” but that of “loader speed”.
My belief is that the battle between markers will become one simply of cosmetics, features, and hype. I think “speed” will become a moot point in the big picture…. until the loading systems surpass the abilities of the markers they are loading. And I feel this makes the “speed” battle one that has switched from the marker manufacturers to the loader manufacturers.

There's a big difference with quality in cars and paintball guns. People buy quality cars because they need to last them a long time, 8+ years in a lot of cases. Paintball guns definitely aren't the same way. Impulses definitely aren't quality guns, yet they are probably the most popular electro pnuematic gun on the market. I'm not knocking imps, so don't start a flame fest with me. They are great guns for the price. They just aren't quality guns. SP used low quality parts to get that 400 dollar price tag. Most paintballers won't look for a quality built gun. They would rather have a fast, efficent, low kick gun.

No one can outshoot a v35 halo without shot enhancement(bouncing, ramp, scuba tank ;) ), guns I don't think can legally get faster then they already are. Loaders have surpassed human capablilites, why you would need faster then that, I have no idea.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

The point is that AGD will no longer be competing directly with Impulses and Timmys and DM4s. Those are tourney markers. AGD has abandoned that market for the larger share of paintballers who play big games and scenarios. Scenario players use Tippmanns more than anything else, and cocker variants. They don't need a marker that is the absolute fastest, or the shiniest or newest. Who could even tell when there are 500-1000 players on the field, anyway? They want a marker that is fast enough and that will work all day through an 8hr or 24hr game. In a big game, 30bps just means more trips back to the parking lot to refill your pods.

[tony3]

Having a gun that is always working is way more important in a tourney then a scenerio. When you are playing a game to get you into the finals and its one on one and you need to shoot their last player and your gun doesn't work, isn't good. When a lot of prizes/money is on the line, you always got to have a working gun.

[Bobbyboy]

On the note technology evolution isnt there more to paintball than the marker and loader i mean i think we have about hit a plateu with bps because much more than 30 is just a big waste of paint and not strategically much of an advantage. i would really like to see an evolution in paintballs like say some way of making them.....cheaper .I suppose i also want a tank setup you could get more shots with and on that note the only issue i have with AGD guns as of yet is the lack of efficiency. Anyway thats just the opion of a random white dude named bob :)

[SpecialBlend2786]

speaking of the gap closing regarding the performance of lower end guns...with e frames low end stacked blowback guns like spyders and piranha's are easily faster than the fastest and most expensive custom cocker (without an eblade or race). I mean, i can shoot my eforce piranha faster than my X-valved mag with ULT (and no bounce). But my mag is still my primary gun, because of the feel and quality of it.

plus it looks awesome............