Centerflag Hyperframe

[drboo]

Hi all,

I've got an original RT, and it works great, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried the Centerflag Hyper grip frame. I'd love an E-Mag, but it's not in the budget, and this is the closest i'll be able to get for a while. Just wondering how it works, weather it's worth the $350 ish.

Thanks

b0o

[Bearshirt]

I have a Hyper Frame and love it, but I put it on a classic.
It is worth the money, since we can't get the Retro-valve kit to work any faster than a stock valve.
I don't see any advantage to putting the Hyper Frame on a RT, you all ready have the fastest recharge rate, and a real cool trigger. With a Hyper Frame you will loose your reactive trigger, and in my experience the RT is the best Mag I've ever shot!

Save your money and get an E-mag, they have all the modes and will shoot when the batteries are dead. What other electic can do that?

To be sure, perhaps you can borrow one and see if it's the way you really want to go...

IMHO.

[Paintchucker]

If you catch it right, you can find a Hyperframe on Ebay for around $200. With the RT you will lose the "RT" on the trigger, but you will never short stroke it again. Plus the trigger pull length is tiny. I have one on my minimag with retro and love it.

[kilaueakid]

I have a hyperframe on a stock valve, and it is nice, however I used to have an old-school RT and would not suggest putting one on that. bearshirt is right, you would lose all reactivenice in the tigger. Save the money for the emag in the future.
kila

[drboo]

I do have an old school RT (very old!). Why wouldn't you reccomend the hyperframe? Any specifics?

Thanks

b0o

[Temo Vryce]

Ask yourself this, Do I like the Reactive trigger of the RT? If the answer is yes then you don't want the Hyperframe. Your trigger won't bounce anymore. If you don't mind loosing that feature then go ahead and get the hyperframe. Personally the only thing that I find the electro frames good for is that it's impossible to short stroke your mag with them. But like I said if you like the sweet spot on the RT then don't waste your money on a hyper frame. Buy an intelliframe instead.

[DYE-BaLLeR]

Originally posted by Bearshirt
I have a Hyper Frame and love it, but I put it on a classic.
It is worth the money, since we can't get the Retro-valve kit to work any faster than a stock valve.
I don't see any advantage to putting the Hyper Frame on a RT, you all ready have the fastest recharge rate, and a real cool trigger. With a Hyper Frame you will loose your reactive trigger, and in my experience the RT is the best Mag I've ever shot!

Save your money and get an E-mag, they have all the modes and will shoot when the batteries are dead. What other electic can do that?

To be sure, perhaps you can borrow one and see if it's the way you really want to go...

IMHO.

why do u say ", since we can't get the Retro-valve kit to work any faster than a stock valve.". thats not true

[Minimag4me]

IT is true in this case because the hyperframe is limited to 13bps in semi so it is the same speed on both valves.

[DYE-BaLLeR]

i thought he meant rt couldnt shoot faster then the stock valve without hyper

[Bearshirt]

why do u say ", since we can't get the Retro-valve kit to work any faster than a stock valve.". thats not true

In our case it is true!

My brother's Retro-valve kit wont shoot Reactive, and has a great deal of shoot down at 9-10 bps. We've shot my stock valve with CenterFlag grip side by side at a known ROF and my stock valve on CO2 out performs his gun on air. We've upped the pressure, we've lowered the pressure, we added regulators and then removed them. We've shot over four cases of paint and still can't get it to shoot faster than a stock valve. The only thing we haven't tried is to shorten the on/off pin. I'm going to buy a new one so if we screw it up we'll have the stock.

The good news is, it's much easer to shoot without short stroking the trigger, and the pull is much better than stock.

At any rate I love the "real" RT a friend has, it shoots reactive at about 12 bps without shoot down.
My point is if you want an reactive trigger get an RT or E-mag, from the reviews and my experance the RT is awesome.

The Centerflag allows me so shoot at 8-10 bps and I now have a very accurate reliable marker. For my purposes the CenterFlag is great and worth the money!


If anyone has other suggestions to get a Retro-valve to go reactive, I'll very greatful for the help.

Thanks in advance.

[DYE-BaLLeR]

bear, u say ur brothers rt kit duznt work?

[Drizit]

Bearshirt your best be for the Retro is to start another thread for it. you have a really problem if it shoots down at about 9-10 bps. it is for all intents the same valve as the RT and it's what they use in the Emag form what I'm told. so you shouldn't be able to get shoot down (come on can anyone pull at 26+ a second? me thinks only the computer can) the only way you should be getting shoot down is if there is something wrong with the marker, valve, tank, or you are short stroking like nobodies business.

hope you get it fixed.
as to the hyper the only problems I know of are it has a habit of eating bolts and sears if not properly adjusted. if you can't get it setup right centerflag can though. the other thing is I've been told (keep in mind I said told not seen) that it has some reliability problems, but I don't know what they are.

whatever you end up doing I'd suggest you try to get your hands on a mag with a hyper frame and try it before you think of picking one up. (you wouldn't by a car without a test drive right?)

good luck Bearshirt
and have fun drboo

[HyperSnyper]

Right now I have decided to go with the Hyperframe over an RT valve. Reasons:

1) Not that many people can shoot fast enough to gain the full benefit of the RT's recharge rate. So what if the valve can recharge 26 bps with no measurable shootdown, can you pull the trigger that fast?

2) The Hyperframe comes with nice modes in in board. Burst, Full Auto, Semi. It even has a tournament lockdown so I have heard from their techs, so it can be tourney legal.

3) The complete elimination of short stroking. I got to admit, even though I have trained myself away from short stroking, there are those moments when you get surprised, even a little excited, and your trigger rhythym skips a beat, then all of a sudded *SQUISH* you got goo in your gun.

4) The trigger pull is less than a 1 mm. Can any other mag trigger out there do that?

At first, it was a 50/50 decision to get one or not, now its more like 99/1 that I will get one. I want one, its an el cheapo way to get E-mag performance. I would rather go Emag, but I dont really have the 1200 budget to get one.

*sigh*

[Drizit]

a couple of points to note.

1 the retro will help with short stroking, the reactive trigger helps to prevent it.

2. the NPPL is talking about making any marker with select fire options (burst and full auto) illegal for their tournaments even if it has a lock on it. (don't ask it's lame I know)

3. no you can't get 26bps but the classic starts getting shootdown (technically) at 6bps and (realistically) you start to notice it at about 10bps. the hyper maxes out your rate of fire at 13bps. to go any faster you will probably need a warp but hey with a retro and an crazy finger it possible.

4. 1mm trigger pull, if you can find yourself an autoresponce trigger and then put in a stop so it never goes far enough in to get the second shot you can get it down to about that short, and it's almost impossible to short stroke take a look at www.g3pb.com in the projects section for more info on that.

whatever you decide to do I just ask one thing. get someone out for me eh?

[HyperSnyper]

Very good point Driz,
RT's are damn good, IMO, they should actually make it illegal on the field (for its basic full auto capabilities). For some reason they dont, which makes the RT even more sweeter and juicier (*drool*)

However, with the price of RT vs Hyperframe, the price is very similar. You can get either item in Ebay or the classifieds for about 200 clams.

Its all preference. I believe the Hyperframe will get better consistencies, since it has already been spread across this board that the RT does bring inconsistencies. The first 2 shots will have lower velocites, then the rest will get a "hot shot" effect. RT are great for the player that wants to really dump paint effortlessly. But then again, the Hyper allows that too with its many modes.

Just another note to point out. Drizit, I dont believe the Stock Automag valves to get shootdown at 10 bps. If you watch the Halo video, the first video that they came out with, they put a Halo loader on a STOCK AGD Automag. It was equipped with a Hyperframe shooting at 16 (YES 16) bps. As you can see on the video, and in the forums, Tom Kaye bragged about the Stock valves potential to shoot straight streams of paint at high rates if fire.

Just something to remember... and think about...

-HyperSnyper

[Drizit]

I haven't seen the video for the halo but one thing to keep in mind with the stock valve is that in around 1991 when the mag video was done stupid fast was about 9bps now that number has gone up a bit. also with a couple of changes you can get ridicules rates of fire out of the classic valve without shootdown. and hey the thing will cycle at 16bps but will you get shootdown is a different story. also I don't' know about in full auto but in semi I think the hyper stops you at 13 (I may be talking through me arse their I've never had one with power in my hands so my info there is just hearsay, feel free to correct me) the 16bps hyper could have been a custom programing job.

[Bearshirt]

Originally posted by Drizit
I haven't seen the video for the halo but one thing to keep in mind with the stock valve is that in around 1991 when the mag video was done stupid fast was about 9bps now that number has gone up a bit. also with a couple of changes you can get ridicules rates of fire out of the classic valve without shootdown. and hey the thing will cycle at 16bps but will you get shootdown is a different story. also I don't' know about in full auto but in semi I think the hyper stops you at 13 (I may be talking through me arse their I've never had one with power in my hands so my info there is just hearsay, feel free to correct me) the 16bps hyper could have been a custom programing job.

Good point about the video! My Hyperframe can only shoot at a max of 13 bps in Semi-Auto mode and only 10 bps in Hyper or what most people call Turbo mode. Is the Halo video real? The reason I keep it at 8 bps is it loads and shoots amazing consistant and is more than enough for me. I wonder about why are RT's still legal, I'm sure my friend's RT shoots bursts at about 12 bps when it's going reactive. We don't have a timer, but counting balls in the hopper and shooting for a known amount of times seems to bear this out.

I go to Delta alot and I've talked to Bob Long and he said that all guns were going to be limited at about 9 bps semi-auto only next year. But the guns that have been made will still be legal, just the new guns will be limited my the manufacture.

/me shrugging...

[Drizit]

the reason the mag RT is legal is the technically it is one shot one pull. if you look at the mechanics of it your finger is making a complete cycle with the trigger for every shot. so it's not technically full auto. tippman RT's the sweet spot is so long that you have to try and miss it. with most mags it's hard to hit, and harder still to keep for more then 3 or 4 shots. the real idea with the mag is to speed up the return of the trigger so you can pull it again. in fact all that is just a side effect of how fast it's recharging. so if the fact that in a string of shots they will get hotter as you go.

[Bearshirt]

OK so what's the verdic?

1. Is a proberly operating, RT, Retro-valve worth it?

2.Or do you want that nice mouseclick trigger, that never short strokes?

So far my Hyperframe has shot perfectly, it breaks paint at 12 bps on the last shot only But never at 8 bps(hey why is that?). With good paint I hit what I aim at, 80-100 ft your mine.

The real cool thing about the RT for me, is being able to shoot single shots, get the target in range,and then buzzing off a short burst. It did take a while to get the feel, but when you got it, it wasn't that hard to repeat it.

I guess I'm still pineing for an RT or maybe
an E-mag.

[Drizit]

a properly operating, RT, Retro-valve is defiantly worth it. even with a hyper frame, with the stock classic valve you may see some shootdown.

and hey the runaway is cool providing your gun doesn't turn into a blender.

however if you love the electro mouse click feel then the hyper or boo-yahh is the way do go. (or an emag if you can get the coin for one and you like it's trigger;) )

the reason you chop paint at 12 and not at 8 is you aren't feeding fast enough. if you have a 9volt revvy upgrade to a 12volt, if you already have one then try an X-board and the new paddles. for a demonstration of just why you had the problem go to http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/loaders/lineup/index.shtml
Bill did a review of most of the top loaders on the go at the moment. the reason it only happens on the last ball of a burst is probably because that's where you run out of balls in the feed and the 1/4 second delay of the revvy comes in and a ball ends up only 1/2 in the breach.

[Bearshirt]

Thanks, I'll check out the reviews.
Warpig tells it how it is!

[MINIMAGMAN]

my friend has a regular automag valve but his double trigger is very reactive and sensitive, anyone know how to make it like that ?

[jimmyjobob]

http://www.odysseypaintball.com/images/202.mpg

[Micromag5371]

BEARSHIRT....on page 1, i think i know whats wrong with your bros RT..... if hes using a preset tank, its most likely the problem...its probably set too low. you say you added regs, those lower the pressure even more, so its kinda impossible to get more air than the tank is allowing. I heard people who Ran co2 on an RT, make sure ABSOLUTELY NO liquid gets in the valve and the tank should be about 3/4 full...if you decide to try that, the gun should kick the trigger back with tremendous force. i think that should solve the problem, thats just what i think is wrong though.

[Bearshirt]

Micromag5371

Thanks I think you're right! My bro's preset tank
is set to 750 psi and with the extra reg the pressure is just too low. My friend with the RT has his tank set to over 1000 psi and it's very reactive.

I finally talked my bro into bypassing the extra reg and seeing if that helps. He just bought my friends RT so now we can play with a tank with much higher pressure.

Two RT's in the family now!

he, he, he,

[Dubstar112]

Either way it goes, get a warp..(unless you already have one)

[SGTKennedy]

my cuz has an old mag. the on off is worn. the sear is worn. the bolt is worn. and its got a benchy 2x on it. and it seems to be slightly reactive. no rt, but it chuggs away. with a good finger its amazing. i am just waiting for the day he has to buy a new on off /sear/bolt. because i think that the wear on the combo is what does it. If i had time i would find an OLD or UNUSED on/off pin and take a bit of toothpaste and a scratch pad and take it down just a bit. see what that would do.
Kennedy