wgp/k2 destroy the '05 cocker

[dirty_canadian4894]

http://www.air-powered.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=20984&


that really pisses me off those thing are the ugliest cheapest looking pos's ive ever seen im gonna have to sell my cocker now just so i wont be just like every new kid at my field

[GT]

This topic sucks. Stop the hate! Some of AO is as bad as SP. Dont believe the hype!

[spantol]

Wow. You'd think news like that would have been posted here already.

[68magOwner]

i like teh single trigger hinge frame tho

[penguinpunk555]

Meh..... less adjustments.

[luke]

hummm. Finally the cocker has a price that reflects what their worth. :D

Sorry I couldn't resist. :dance:

Just Kidding :rolleyes:

[Destructo6]

The blue one looks like a Spyder cocker.

Integrating the VA and 3-way into the body was a bad idea.

I've owned Autocockers since 1995. I'm pretty sad now.

[DiSoRdeR]

It doesnt look like a cocker to me :wow: Like the price though ;)

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

The price is good but DANG those things are ugly. On top of that they arent as upgradable or w/e. They made a major mistake comin out with those imo although a lot of kids will be buyin em cus of the price and to say they have a cocker (who cares :rofl: )

[GotMag?]

how much are they and can someone post the pic?

[GT]

how much are they and can someone post the pic?


:rofl:

[Bensongg]

These arent even out yet and everyone is bashing them...lol.
Integrated does not mean that the 3-way, reg and ram cannot be unscrewed and replaced. You would have to buy a whole new cocker if one of them parts broke. I highly doubt WGP is that stupid, no one would buy them if that was the case.
I for one intend on grabbing one of these when they come out this winter.

[padiwack]

Trilogy Sport ($179.99)- http://www.paintballstar.com/pn/modules/PagEd/pictures/Trilogy-Sport-Marker.jpg

Trilogy Competition ($219.99)- http://www.paintballstar.com/pn/modules/PagEd/pictures/Trilogy-Comp-Marker.jpg

Trilogy Pro ($269.99)- http://www.paintballstar.com/pn/modules/PagEd/pictures/Trilogy-Pro-Marker.jpg

there you go, the new and improved cockers :)

[jesseyo13]

slap an eblade on it and you have a 500$ electro cocker with eyes, not bad at all

[68magOwner]

i plan on getting a used sport, was looking to but a OLD cocker for ~$130 but, hey, few more bills for new one that does the same thing and you can say "ooh look 2k5" :D

[MaChu]

I don't think they look that bad...especially for the price.

[toymyster]

I am going to withhold judgement untill I see one in the flesh, you can't tell by just a picture posted on a website!!!

[ghideon]

Maybe now we can convince players who are looking to upgrade from Tippys and Spyders to go for Automags now? The whole Mag vs Cocker thing again?

These new ones are kind strange...

[JoshK]

Those arnt horrible...but K2 is doing the same thing with pb as skatin...they make the cheaper crap and throw there name on it...if only they put alittle effort into their products...Im glad i got my '03...

[tippmannsniper-]

to make a bad gun worse you CANT EBLADE IT since the 3 way is an integrated of the body you cant put the eblade selenoid on anywhere :nono: :mad:

[tranman]

Does'nt anyone remember the WGP RAnger series of guns? (Not the old old pump) They were spyder clones so it wouldnt be the first time they've made something that looked like a spyder, this was before K2's time.

[MarkM]

slap an eblade on it and you have a 500$ electro cocker with eyes, not bad at all

Where would you mount the electronic 3 way? It is intergrated now....looks like Bud...sorry K2 is getting out of the electro biz.

[Chronobreak]

wo funny how nobody missed the EXACT smae post right underneath :rolleyes: some people need to check these things before they post

:looks at the canadian :shooting:

[teufelhunden]

Where would you mount the electronic 3 way? It is intergrated now....looks like Bud...sorry K2 is getting out of the electro biz.


It could be mounted anywhere... you could mount it on your arm if you wanted to, you'd just need to run the hoses far enough.

And I highly doubt Worr is gonna drop their high end stuff...

[camilion705]

I want to see one turtled... :clap:

[SlartyBartFast]

Any pictures from the opposite side? Until there is, conjecture about the 3-way is just guessing.

Honestly, looks are completely subjective and it's about time the 'cocker design evolved a little.

While the drastic change will put many aftermarket parts makers off-balance, is that a bad thing? Most of the crap is just cosmetic anyways.

I'm sue that Palmer and all the quality add-on/replacement makers will come out with new products.

But, and imagine this, maybe it works fine out of the box.

Why is it all of you are always clamoring for upgrades? Got too much money to burn?

If the gun is solid and reliable, it looks like an awsome price drop.

[Stealthgerbil]

WGP is still going to have the high end guns. These, though, tarnish the cocker name. I would rather have a '99 cocker then those. At least I could upgrade it.

[MasonFootball89]

Well it looks liek they took a nice looking frame

Replaced it with plastic and made it look crazy.

This is possibly the worst looking cocker to ever hit the market

[camilion705]

Lets see one of them with an egg or revy and an air system hooked up and maybe a nice barrel... Then we can all talk about what it looks like. As of now we dont really have much to base our opinions on. I mean come on, they only cost a couple hundred dollars! What other cheap guns look really good?

In my opinion, the red/black one looks pretty sweet...

[dynastyfan]

yeah im a thinking of picking up the red and black one

[Chipper]

I'm not completely sure, but its not like WGP is the only company that makes cockers. Doesn't Diablo have one? Dye? Eclipse? Turtle? You could go on and on.

Unless they buy the cocker for WGP and put their stuff on it.

[shartley]

I too can not tell if I like it or not by simply looking at a one angled view on a website. Time will tell.

As for the other comments I read… yeah, I agree. Heaven forbid any company coming out with affordable products that more people can actually buy. Heaven forbid a company come out with a wider range of products hitting more than one price range. And heaven forbid anyone actually hold, examine, and shoot the marker before commenting on its “quality”, or lack of. :rolleyes:

;)

[PBX Ronin 23]

From what I understand after recently talking to a WGP executive, these puppies were intended to be for the mass merchants. There will still be the more traditional version with your normal front block.

If you look at K2's history, they've had a penchant for taking a highly respected brand name and leveraging that into shelf space with mass merchants. I don't necessarily agree with it but if it positively impact's K2's bottomline, then they'll make the rational business decision.

[Ov3rmind]

Hm, for $180 you really can't go wrong though, even if they are ugly. I actually like the way the Trilogy Pro looks though. Like other have said though, the integrated 3-way and VA was a bad idea.

[Bensongg]

I think that when they say integrated it means that the front block and asa are now a solid piece of the body. That would mean that the 3-way, ram, and lpr are all still removeable. I have yet to read where it says otherwise.

[camilion705]

I too can not tell if I like it or not by simply looking at a one angled view on a website. Time will tell.

As for the other comments I read… yeah, I agree. Heaven forbid any company coming out with affordable products that more people can actually buy. Heaven forbid a company come out with a wider range of products hitting more than one price range. And heaven forbid anyone actually hold, examine, and shoot the marker before commenting on its “quality”, or lack of. :rolleyes:

;)


Exactly.

[FooTemps]

Okay shartley(in soapbox mode),

I think that this is a good step for lowend. I bet a whole lot of members agree with me. If you read, people say comments like, "looks hideous, but for this price I can't complain." If you know K2, they have screwed up product lines by making mass market low end stuff. And if you look at the freakin picture, you can see why so many people don't like the new frontblock setup! Heaven forbid people hypothsize on the build, quality, and function based on prior knowledge and data presented.

[shatter_storm]

Cockers arn't good newbie friendly markers. Everyone knows that. Cockers have lots of pneumatics and mechanical things to break, they fall out of timing, the pressures go all whacky and in general they don't always work right.

I don't understand why they'd try to market an error-prone marker to the masses - it's not like cockers spontaneously combust, it's that people like dicking with things. Cockers arn't supposed to be messed with if you don't know what you're doing.

I dunno, to me this sounds like a business plan with good intention but nobody thought it through well enough.

[gc82000]

I think that WGP is trying to go for the newbie market now. They look simpler and not so much bunched up the way previous frontblocks used to looked.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Let's look at the positives:

1. With Cockers, it's not just the timing that can throw the gun off. The alignment of the parts can also cause problems. When the front block shifts, usually one of the casualties would be the pump rod rubbing against the body or the ram shaft being stressed because it's not actuating in a linear fashion. With the fixed position of the ram on the actual body, this problem has been eliminated.

2. If the 3-way is integrated, it becomes less prone to suffer the same problems as the ram when the front block shifts. Trigger-player interface suffers when the 3-way shaft is not actuating in a linear fashion and it manifests itself by making the trigger stick and move slower. If it’s in the fixed position, it becomes less prone to that.

3. Entry-level guns available now have always had performance issues when ever dealing with CO2. By virtue of its design, Cockers are less prone to the usual swollen o-ring problems that arise with your standard stacked-tube blow-back. Given the choice, I'd rather have something that's a facsimile of a Cocker-like performance in a starter gun than any stacked-tube blow-backs out there. At least you wouldn't have the dilemma of the other entry-level guns when they go on full-auto when your air runs out and making it known to your opponents.

4. For an entry-level gun, the price points are good. Perhaps the upgrade path wouldn't be as diverse but who knows, creative designers can always come up with a solution to any problem......and guess who's already taking a look at it? ;)

If you just stand back and look at things objectively, you'll find that every cloud has a silver lining. By simplifying the gun with the removal of some of the things that have presented "problems" to Cocker novices, WGP has provided people new to the sport the ability to have a different choice in the entry-level market.

What WGP and K2 has done is to enable the new and budget-conscious players the ability to experience Cocker-like performance at bargain basement prices. Give them more options than your traditional blow-back. I think that's a win-win, don't you?

[Enemy]

^^^^hes got all good points.. and its not like half of the people dont have their cockers timed out of house any so who cares on that part!!! personally i prefered the 03 cockers milling and complex look but these mean a better cheap market for people, who will no longer have to look away when they say their first marker was a spyder cuz that was the cooliest looking gun at the time!! i know i do, i started with spyder!! ofcoarse the trigger pull was alot better then the tippmans at the time!!!

[eightball]

everything gets nicely summed and cleared up here
http://www.wgppress.com/viewtopic.php?t=39085

i wouldn't mind have one of these trilogy things in my closet for my friends to use :p
still ugly and look like a son of a spyder mom and a cocker dad :p

[shartley]

Okay shartley(in soapbox mode),

I think that this is a good step for lowend. I bet a whole lot of members agree with me. If you read, people say comments like, "looks hideous, but for this price I can't complain." If you know K2, they have screwed up product lines by making mass market low end stuff. And if you look at the freakin picture, you can see why so many people don't like the new frontblock setup! Heaven forbid people hypothsize on the build, quality, and function based on prior knowledge and data presented.
Thank you for your comment. I understand your point of view. And I did read what people said…. I read ALL comments. And MY comments were specific. If the shoe fits…. If not….

Yes, it is good to use prior history as a starting point when making decisions, but until you actually KNOW what you are talking about your “decisions” are only uninformed (or partially informed at best) opinions.

And sorry, getting upset at me, and jumping around like a madman does not make opinions correct…. Although I admit that would get people’s attention.

[PBX Ronin 23]

After touring the forums, the voices of reason are beginning to sprout out as it concerns the new '05 WGP markers.

Folks, WGP should be commended for their efforts to introduce something into the entry-level market that isn't a blow-back.

All their 'normal' front-blocked guns will still be out there. A new hot one waiting in the wings, from what I understand.

My Cocker bretherens, this is a time to rejoice at the coming of three new children. This is not the time to stone them. The time to uplift them is upon us.

[minimag03]

I'm planning on picking one of them up with the single trigger frame. I might just get the cheapest one a put a good reg on it. Anyway, I think that this is a good idea. I dought WORR would put out a poor product. I heard that I can prorder them, where at?

minimag03

[spantol]

You can pre-order them here: http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=IANFEPV3NrBFDLRAuZeFuP--Xsu55FrYUXY=?CategoryName=paintball-guns-worrgames-paintball-guns

[AcemanPB]

I agree with Ronin, it's a entry level marker. You can't expect the prices to go down AND performance and looks go up. I think for what it cost it seems like a very good marker, and it's great they simplified the gun to make it a little more noob friendly considering the market it's now in.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Coming from an extremely reliable source, a pretty hot "tournament" grade gun will be coming out of Corona, CA pretty soon.

Stay tuned.

[Enos Shenk]

As for "tarnishing" the cocker name, well, i dont see how since theyre calling it the "trilogy".

Now im assuming here that the 3-way body has been intergrated into the side of the vert adapter. Im also assuming that it would take an enterprising individual with a bomb 3-way shaft, a drill and some hand tools about 20 minutes to replace the 2 o-ring shaft with the bomb 3 o-ring shaft and fiddle a standard timing rod on there.

Im also assuming that it would take an enterprising soul about another 10 minutes to rip that stubby LPR off the front, tap the front for 1/8 NPT and screw on a rock reg.

I might pick up the $179 version just for the fun of seeing how far i can modify the thing before it screams for mercy.

[TheTramp]

I like the single trigger hinge frame. I wonder if it fits older cocker bodies.

[PBX Ronin 23]

At the end of the day, WGP and K2 would have created more choices in an already crowded market. But the choice that they're providing is totally different than what's already out there.

It's kind nice to start hearing people speak more positively about this.....and rightfully so.

[spectre184]

At local field I shot some kids Eclipse E-Cocker that looked/based like ones above. It ripped, well I couldn't shoot it as fast as he did since I still shoot an 68Automag :headbang:

I was impressed by what I saw. As long as replacement parts are avavilible and I'm sure companies will come out with aftermarket parts too. Unless K2 sues them? :tard:

*edit* found cached link on google of ad (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:bIdqp0kD2MkJ:store.paintballace.com/plecfaed.html+eclipse+e+cocker&hl=en&start=4) and cached pic of gun (http://store3.yimg.com/I/paintballace_1799_3071595) his was different color but you get idea :D

[PBX Ronin 23]

I was impressed by what I saw. As long as replacement parts are avavilible and I'm sure companies will come out with aftermarket parts too. Unless K2 sues them? :tard:
Well if K2 did, they would have abandoned the business paradigm that has made WGP one of the most successful companies in the industry.

Suing anybody that comes up with an after-market upgrade to their products is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just doesn't make a whole lot of business sense.

[Slade xTekno]

Well if K2 did, they would have abandoned the business paradigm that has made WGP one of the most successful companies in the industry.

Suing anybody that comes up with an after-market upgrade to their products is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just doesn't make a whole lot of business sense.

I believe he was talking about the Eclipse Cocker. The one f/s at my proshop doesn't have a front block, either. Plus, WGP leeches everything off PE anyway. They wouldn't sue them, lu.

[angelpena]

The cocker vs. mag debate is officially over....
The new debate will be cocker vs. spyder....
and so far in the looks department I think the spyder has the upper hand....

[PBX Ronin 23]

I believe he was talking about the Eclipse Cocker. The one f/s at my proshop doesn't have a front block, either. Plus, WGP leeches everything off PE anyway. They wouldn't sue them, lu.The arrangement that Planet Eclipse had with WGP was mutually beneficiary. Perhaps using another word than "leeches" would be a little bit more appropriate. As for the Nexus 03, there where only a handful of them made. How much is the guys selling that gun for?

The cocker vs. mag debate is officially over....
The new debate will be cocker vs. spyder....
and so far in the looks department I think the spyder has the upper hand....Your post, no offense intended, lacks a true understanding of the way the guns work and the business decision being made. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but a little more thought instead of an over-simplification of an otherwise relevant comparison is underwhelming at best.

[Slade xTekno]

The arrangement that Planet Eclipse had with WGP was mutually beneficiary. Perhaps using another word than "leeches" would be a little bit more appropriate. As for the Nexus 03, there where only a handful of them made. How much is the guys selling that gun for?

The gun w/ EBlade is going for about $1140, lu. I guess you're right on the "leech," though. I just wish Bud Orr would come out with something he came up with himself.

I also disagree with the poster who said Autococker v. Spyder. Please wait until you shoot one until you make judgements like that. In my opinion, I think the new Trilogy's look awesome. I'd take one of those over a Spyder anyday.

[warbeak2099]

I've read this topic on several forums. I think what people need to understand is that these aren't replacing the SuperStock or the OutKast. These are really replacing the Ranger series. I think simplified entry-level cockers are a great idea. For $179 it beats any other entry-gun.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Perhaps entering this segment of the market might also be a good move for AGD. What do you think Tom?

[FutureMagOwner]

the first 2 cheap ones trigger frames looks like i could fit maybe my pinky in the trigger guard