4.0 software

[Flossabe]

Does any one know how to program or change the words that come up when you turn the gun on, or if it is posible to change at all?

[Tunaman]

not on the 4.0 no. ;)

[eadtf]

O.k. what about 3.2?

And does anyone know if AGD is going to fix 4.0 and maybe reissue it as 4.1 or soemthing?

Pat

[Flossabe]

THanks Tuna, 4.0 and 4.01 are not a bad software it is more a hardware issue, i think it may be caused by the HES, one reason I think this is I have a friend that has a timmy with a magnetic actuatied trigger and he can bust out 29 by holding the trigger in the right place with no bounce the gun just goes full auto, I dont have this problem until my battery is 98% dead wich I would never play with it that dead any way, but I think it may be a HES noise issue, havent had a chance to check out more sensitive or diffrent HES sensors just what I think off hand.

[Cryer]

Since the emag has been discontinued, I doubt there will be any more software upgrades.

[eadtf]

As I recall talking to a AGD Tech, the reason that 4.0 was recalled was due to a safety issue?!?!? Not sure, but he said they my fix it and allow owners to send theres in for the udate. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing beyond 4.0 at this time.

Pat

[Vendetta]

I got 4.01 on mine with no problems. They'll have to pry it out of my cold dead board :D

[RTDynaflow]

Excuse my ignorance. What is the difference between all the diffferent e/x - mag software out there? I am looking at either buying an X-mag, 2k4 Timmy, Viking, or Custom Dallara Devilmag. (wish I could kidnap the hair from nicad :ninja: ) Hoping some more info on the subject will sway me towards the X-mag.

My apologies for jacking this thread. ;)

[Bad_Dog]

hmmm, I had 4.01 since I bought my Emag... Tuna recently flashed it down to 3.2...

I had full auto issues and neither me, or Tuna could get it working properly :(

[eadtf]

hmmm, I had 4.01 since I bought my Emag... Tuna recently flashed it down to 3.2...


I have seen this allot on the different forums.

Does anyone know what equipment you need and the programming language the bios is in? I would like to play around with making a custom bios, any help would greatly be appreciated!

Pat

[Miscue]

Since the emag has been discontinued, I doubt there will be any more software upgrades.

Yup.

[Miscue]

I have seen this allot on the different forums.

Does anyone know what equipment you need and the programming language the bios is in? I would like to play around with making a custom bios, any help would greatly be appreciated!

Pat

BIOS? :D

If you're serious, and you don't know how to do assembly or embedded systems programming - you'll need to learn that first before it can even be attempted. If you do, then I have to wonder why the question was asked in the first place. :p

[eadtf]

Well rather than posting something that someone else could read and find useful you decided to post so rhetorical crap!

Good Moderation!!! :shooting: Miscue


As stated before:
Does anyone know what equipment you need and the programming language the bios is in? I would like to play around with making a custom bios, any help would greatly be appreciated!

[Miscue]

Well rather than posting something that someone else could read and find useful you decided to post so rhetorical crap!

Good Moderation!!! :shooting: Miscue


As stated before:
Does anyone know what equipment you need and the programming language the bios is in? I would like to play around with making a custom bios, any help would greatly be appreciated!

It's not a BIOS, it's a microcontroller.

My answer was not rhetorical crap. Your correct response was: I don't know how to do that, where do I start? or: I do know how to do that (Followed by good questions that someone who knows how to would ask).

This is what you need to know and understand:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/DOC0839.PDF

Go through that, and you'll be on your way to writing your custom software.

[Miscue]

This is what you need to know to program the display:
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5988-4161EN.pdf

This might be helpful as well:
http://www.egr.uh.edu/Courses/ECE/ECE5440/Project/Data%20sheets/Displays/5963-7071E.pdf

Enjoy.

[Flossabe]

There will be a test over all 130 pages on friday.

[shatter_storm]

I've got experience in embedded systems, but I don't have the $400 it'll cost to buy a set of emag lowers to mess around with. I'm thinking perhaps I should just make my own gripframe and stick some E-Mag jewels on it :P

[eadtf]

:clap:

Thank you for pointing me the the right direction.

[FragTek]

I dont know if anyone remembers but about 8 months ago I had posted up a solderless fix to eliminate the wierd noise caused by 3.2 + that made the e-mags go full auto. I'm not sure if this fix worked with 4.0 however.

I wish I still had a link to the photo tutorial I had, but my previous hosting provider wiped out all of my data w/o giving me a backup *those bastards! :mad: *

[Tunaman]

I dont know if anyone remembers but about 8 months ago I had posted up a solderless fix to eliminate the wierd noise caused by 3.2 + that made the e-mags go full auto. I'm not sure if this fix worked with 4.0 however.

I wish I still had a link to the photo tutorial I had, but my previous hosting provider wiped out all of my data w/o giving me a backup *those bastards! :mad: *
Sorry, but it wont work on the 4.0. ;)

[FragTek]

booooooo!

[eadtf]

I had a look at the articles, does not seem to be too hard to learn but will take sometime. I also provided a friend of mine the info as he knows embedded systems programing. However, until I come up to par on learning it, or my friend makes a stable product.

Is there anyone who can program an X-Mag to have a mode of fire selector:

MODE = FULL, BURST, SHOT

Full = Full Auto
Burst = 3 Shot
Shot = Single

Better yet if anyone could mod the board and make a plugin ROM Chip with each of these Modes on them, this would allow you to keep it tournament legal since you would have to pull the grip to change the chip for the different rates of fire you want.

Any Help, Any Idea, What do you think?

Pat

[Miscue]

I had a look at the articles, does not seem to be too hard to learn but will take sometime. I also provided a friend of mine the info as he knows embedded systems programing. However, until I come up to par on learning it, or my friend makes a stable product.

Is there anyone who can program an X-Mag to have a mode of fire selector:

MODE = FULL, BURST, SHOT

Full = Full Auto
Burst = 3 Shot
Shot = Single

Better yet if anyone could mod the board and make a plugin ROM Chip with each of these Modes on them, this would allow you to keep it tournament legal since you would have to pull the grip to change the chip for the different rates of fire you want.

Any Help, Any Idea, What do you think?

Pat

Why?

[sig11]

Has it been made public what the problem is? I can't recall seeing anyone say more than "it is a hardware problem."

I would love to get my hands on a copy of 4.01. I've been toying with my own software in my spare time, but I don't really have all the time I would need to implement all those wonderful features. ;) I was happy just to get the display to change when I pull the trigger.

Lee

[Dayspring]

It's an un-resolved issue. Some guns will accept it fine, others will full auto and ramp like crazy.

[Blennidae]

Miscue:

What is the difference between 4.0 and 4.01? You flashed my Emag to 4.0 at the AO CA day. I'm quite happy with it, no full auto on mine. Just curious what changed in 4.01.

[eadtf]

Why?


Well I suppose it depends on how many markers you have and what your apintball interest is. I have an RT: Single Shot, I have an Angel: Single, Burst, Full, and I have an X-Mag. It would be nice if my X-Mag did what my Angel did as I am a die-hard AGD fan. But depending on the Games you play, speed ball: single and burst would be great, scenario clearing a house or a building: full auto is nice.

But I suppose more than anything else, if it is capable of doing it, why not allow me to make the decision on how to use it?!?!

Anyways, I am going to purchase another board and try to open up the capabilites of the X-Mag.

Does anyone know who has the source code for full auto? I figure that somwhere between 3.2, 4.0, 4.1 and a full auto source will lie the 3 round burst mode. once that is accomplished you just have to get them all on the single ROM.

Pat

[Z-man]

Miscue:

What is the difference between 4.0 and 4.01? You flashed my Emag to 4.0 at the AO CA day. I'm quite happy with it, no full auto on mine. Just curious what changed in 4.01.

I get to answer that!

The solenoid dwell time was shortened which helped the marker at speeds over 20 bps. With 4.0 you needed to boost the input pressure on the tank so that the recharge assisted the noid in resetting the sear. With 4.01 the solenoid kicks in sooner and you can lower your input pressure back down a bit. Basically you can use a preset tank with greater success if you shoot over 20 bps with 4.01 than 4.0.

do I get a cookie for that?

Eadtf- The source code is kept under lock in key and I get the very distinct impression that one of us outsiders will have it when we pry it from Tom's cold lifeless fingers and not before...

[Blennidae]

Basically you can use a preset tank with greater success if you shoot over 20 bps with 4.01 than 4.0.

Thanks for the info. I don't have to worry then. The best I have ever done according to the BPS counter was 19. If I ever do get any faster, I can always up the output on the flatline.

[Dayspring]

You know that burst modes and full auto modes aren't allowed in scenarios nor in regular play.


Well I suppose it depends on how many markers you have and what your apintball interest is. I have an RT: Single Shot, I have an Angel: Single, Burst, Full, and I have an X-Mag. It would be nice if my X-Mag did what my Angel did as I am a die-hard AGD fan. But depending on the Games you play, speed ball: single and burst would be great, scenario clearing a house or a building: full auto is nice.

But I suppose more than anything else, if it is capable of doing it, why not allow me to make the decision on how to use it?!?!

Anyways, I am going to purchase another board and try to open up the capabilites of the X-Mag.

Does anyone know who has the source code for full auto? I figure that somwhere between 3.2, 4.0, 4.1 and a full auto source will lie the 3 round burst mode. once that is accomplished you just have to get them all on the single ROM.

Pat

[trains are bad]

look who knows so much....

I myself have played in a scenario game where FA was allowed.

[Beemer]

look who knows so much....

I myself have played in a scenario game where FA was allowed.

But it is not By ASTM Safety standards, of course those dont MATTER or people just dont care, and there in lies the future of PaintBall Safety and Us.

[trains are bad]

....or maybe some people don't care because FA is not necessarily unsafe, just different, new and politically incorrect.

[Dayspring]

Well it wasn't a Wayne Dollack or MXS one, I can say that for certain...


look who knows so much....

I myself have played in a scenario game where FA was allowed.

[cabldawg]

Hate to do this to ya Dayspring, but MXS has allowed FA but there was a 11bps limit.

[Miscue]

I get to answer that!

The solenoid dwell time was shortened which helped the marker at speeds over 20 bps. With 4.0 you needed to boost the input pressure on the tank so that the recharge assisted the noid in resetting the sear. With 4.01 the solenoid kicks in sooner and you can lower your input pressure back down a bit. Basically you can use a preset tank with greater success if you shoot over 20 bps with 4.01 than 4.0.

do I get a cookie for that?

Eadtf- The source code is kept under lock in key and I get the very distinct impression that one of us outsiders will have it when we pry it from Tom's cold lifeless fingers and not before...

Nope, no cookie. There are 3 separate, partially related sources of unintended FA. 4.01 gets rid of the low battery FA condition, by not firing during a brown-out. I made a minor mistake involving how stuff is timed in 4.00 that I fixed in 4.01 - an unnatural delay that resulted in missed shots on very rare occassion. But really, 4.00 and 4.01 are virtually identical except that 4.01 will metaphorically get that very last bit of toothpaste out of the tube - none of you will notice, I did it for me - being a perfectionist at times.

What makes you think TK has the source code? :p

The software is not responsible for the FA, it's an EMI issue with the solenoid and HES sensor. 4.00 had 2 sources of FA that it did not cure (assuming solenoid wires are flipped correctly). 4.01 had 1 source of full auto. 4.20 has 0, but I've yet to confirm this with 100% certainty - it seems to have completely cured the problem so far, but I haven't tested a bunch of markers yet either. :)

Unfortunately, 4.20 will also not be supported by AGD or be publicly available even if it is found to be a solution after more testing. :( 4.x was kinda dead a while ago, and I did 4.20 on my own - because it felt like unfinished business, and I was torqued that my software was unusable. Now in my mind... "It is done," and it won't torment me as that "unfinished" thing that I put hundreds of hours into.

I didn't understand the problem before, like I do now - which is partly why I didn't find a fix before. And believe it or not, this very thread is what got me thinking about the software again - and I thought of how to fix it while I was driving down the freeway.

[BlackVCG]

Better yet if anyone could mod the board and make a plugin ROM Chip with each of these Modes on them, this would allow you to keep it tournament legal since you would have to pull the grip to change the chip for the different rates of fire you want.


Considering the fact that the chip is surface soldered to the board, this will not work.

[Z-man]

Thanks for the corrections Miscue.

[Miscue]

Thanks for the corrections Miscue.

Sure thing. You asked in PM why there was a new revision, if AGD isn't going to support it. Well, first of all "I" worked on it independently of AGD knowledge or approval. As it stands, 4.01 cannot get released regardless. 4.20 (assuming it works completely) at least makes it a small possibility, versus 0% possibility.

TK is going to throw his shoe at me. :p

[Beemer]

....or maybe some people don't care because FA is not necessarily unsafe, just different, new and politically incorrect.

Not necessarily unsafe. Maybe you are uninformed. 41 of your peers in and out of the industry says it is.[ASTM Standards] Want to take a guess on who some of those people are?

Different and new...... I dont think so. I started playing the year you were born 1985.
We were using SMGs full auto, legal field. Ever see one of those? Ever shoot one? Know why they were banned? Hardly new or different.

politically incorrect..........What do you mean? Its all about Safety

Its not people dont care because, Its just people dont care.


Hate to do this to ya Dayspring, but MXS has allowed FA but there was a 11bps limit.
How did they control or monitor this???????????

[eadtf]

O.k. here is my 2 cents:



Eadtf- The source code is kept under lock in key and I get the very distinct impression that one of us outsiders will have it when we pry it from Tom's cold lifeless fingers and not before...


What does he care? If AGD is not going to continue developing software for the markers they sold at a cost of well over $1000+ then I think the "Source Code" should be on the net in a .zip file. And I think anyone who knows what they are doing with it should be able to make $$$ for maintaining it. O.k. now I am on my soapbox...

Please don't take me wrong I love AGD...

I am sure you have heard this before. But I bought one of the first RTs with the "Lifetime Warranty," at the time I was willing to pay the extra dollars for a great marker with a great warranty, from a great company. In the six years that I have owned it I have sent it in once for a sheered pin on the bolt and a tune-up. Since then they went to a 5-Star program that I thought was BS and now when I look on the net my marker serial number no longer is covered by my warranty at all. :cry: I imagine that some people were taking advantage of the warranty and that started to cost AGD. That's too bad, but it is a great product and if it is well taken care of it does not require factory support.

Next AGD comes out with the E-Mag and X-Mag, great markers. You can see videos all over the net of how awesome they are and how fast they shoot, and how they don't chop paint. But then there is a lawsuit [Read About it Here] (http://icedillusions.com/Anti-SP.html), which is total BS but what can AGD, I would have stopped making the Electro trigger as well to keep from being sued as well. However, I would still offer support for the ones I sold.

Now I know they will fix it if it breaks. And yes AGD is probably one of the best Customer Service companies, but they should continue to work on their software. As I see it, it was left at 3.2 with the attitude of "leave well enough alone!"

Last week I called AGD and asked about a future release of new software. I was told that as for now there is no plans and nothing in the works to fix 4.0 and 4.1. The Tech said it was recalled because it was programmed with Ramping Software built in. For those that may not know, ramping software allows a few extra shots to be fired when you get on the trigger fast. Then I asked for a few more specifics about the software options in 3.2. Basically in 3.2 the electronic features are pretty limited and with the exception of preventing a chopped ball electronically the rest do very little.

I can't help but feeling a little abandoned by AGD although I like their products.

----Steps of Box-----



You know that burst modes and full auto modes aren't allowed in scenarios or in regular play.


Not True!!! I suppose it depends where you play and whom you play with. I know more people with full auto Angels then I know people with "single-shot" angels. They simply open the grip and change the setting depending on where they play, but the important thing is, THEY HAVE A CHOICE! AGD has robbed me of that choice... ;)



The software is not responsible for the FA, it's an EMI issue with the solenoid and HES sensor. 4.00 had 2 sources of FA that it did not cure (assuming solenoid wires are flipped correctly). 4.01 had 1 source of full auto. 4.20 has 0, but I've yet to confirm this with 100% certainty - it seems to have completely cured the problem so far, but I haven't tested a bunch of markers yet either.


Want to test 4.20 on my marker? :D



Considering the fact that the chip is surface soldered to the board, this will not work.


Well I agree the board is a bit tight, but I know it is possible to attach a few wires to the board somewhere, and remote a small plug-in module, that would house a swappable ROM chip, that could be programmed with the code.. LMFAO... God this sounds stupid since I have no idea what I am talking about exactly, but I have seen it done on an Playstation 2. "If there is a will there is a way!!!"


[QUOTE=Beemer]
Different and new...... I don’t think so. I started playing the year you were born 1985.
We were using SMGs full auto, legal field. Ever see one of those? Ever shoot one? Know why they were banned? Hardly new or different.
[QUOTE]

I played with the SMG-68, sucked when you lost your little five round clips!!! :clap:

My final words in this posting:

Miscue how did you get the code, did/do you work for AGD?

Pat

[sig11]

Sure thing. You asked in PM why there was a new revision, if AGD isn't going to support it. Well, first of all "I" worked on it independently of AGD knowledge or approval. As it stands, 4.01 cannot get released regardless. 4.20 (assuming it works completely) at least makes it a small possibility, versus 0% possibility.

TK is going to throw his shoe at me. :p

Need some debugging help? :p <I>Have programmer, ASM experience, and free time.</I> :)
(I'm sure you're tired of people asking. :/)
Lee

[Miscue]

O.k. here is my 2 cents:

What does he care? If AGD is not going to continue developing software for the markers they sold at a cost of well over $1000+ then I think the "Source Code" should be on the net in a .zip file. And I think anyone who knows what they are doing with it should be able to make $$$ for maintaining it. O.k. now I am on my soapbox...


Last week I called AGD and asked about a future release of new software. I was told that as for now there is no plans and nothing in the works to fix 4.0 and 4.1. The Tech said it was recalled because it was programmed with Ramping Software built in. For those that may not know, ramping software allows a few extra shots to be fired when you get on the trigger fast. Then I asked for a few more specifics about the software options in 3.2. Basically in 3.2 the electronic features are pretty limited and with the exception of preventing a chopped ball electronically the rest do very little.

I can't help but feeling a little abandoned by AGD although I like their products.

----Steps of Box-----


My final words in this posting:

Miscue how did you get the code, did/do you work for AGD?

Pat

How did I get the code? I wrote it, and I'm the only one that has it. TK asked me to write it, and it has some code from my original Q1.1 software that I wrote for myself - intended for personal use - being unsatisfied with 3.2. I wasn't going to wait for AGD to come up with something better, and I wanted good software for my EMag.

No way in hell will it be released, and it has zero to do with being possessive of it. Those who are capable of "maintaining" the software, can write their own to begin with - and do not need the software... or can use a different board altogether. And, I wrote the prototype in two days (and another software engineer on here did the same for himself with personal software, with very little help from me) - with this amount of time in mind, it would take you longer to figure out what I did than to start over... and this desire for released code makes no sense to me - only the incompetent would be interested in it - who should not have it.

Those who cannot write it on their own will not be able to make significant changes - and those changes that they can do can make it unsafe, exhibit random behavior, not function correctly, and/or damage components of the marker. And if someone gets hurt with faulty software that was the result of improper modifications of AGD software, AGD would care - and even more so when they have to go to court over liability issues. This software does not let you harmlessly play Tetris on your PC - it controls a device that shoots projectiles - and there are safety issues.

Everyone who wants to make "changes" to the code, so far has the same goals: Full Auto or Burst mode - but don't fully admit to it, or lightly mention it. If that's what you want, write it yourself. FA takes like a dozen instructions - burst mode is a bit more complicated. You would need to do the exact same thing within 4.x code anyway.

The tech you spoke to is misinformed - I'd like you to tell me who it was you talked to so he can be straightened out. It was recalled due to markers going FA at random due to an EMI issue.

It is not "ramping" software. "Ramping" software exhibits a FA cadence - because once you pass a certain threshold - it ramps up to a steady X bps and it doesn't really matter what your fingers are doing as long as they are maintaining the speed needed to be over that threshold. You can tell when people have ramped boards when they are shooting really fast and the rhythm is dead on. Anyone who has used 4.x can tell you that it does not do this.

See for yourself: http://homepage.mac.com/zvetter/.Movies/SFL%204.0%20Testing.mov
(Right Click->Save As)

[Miscue]

Need some debugging help? :p <I>Have programmer, ASM experience, and free time.</I> :)
(I'm sure you're tired of people asking. :/)
Lee

There are no bugs - the software has been flawless for quite some time. The hardware has been the problem. If you can make a very small, cheap, and effective degausser - then you'll have my attention.

[paintpiggie]

MISCUE! YOU'RE MY HERO!!!!! :headbang:

[paintpiggie]

How did I get the code? I wrote it, and I'm the only one that has it.


demmit. now the secret's out.

[RTDynaflow]

First off, let me say i don't own an e/x-mag. I am just more or less curious.

Miscue, you wrote 4.0 software? Completely independent of AGD? I mean you don't work for AGD? How did people get the 4.0 software? Was it distributed with a batch of e/x mags? Do you flash markers to 4.2?

What are all the differences in the software? 1.2, 3.2, 4.1? Or whatever they may be...

I was also under the impression that ramping software would add balls after a certain bps was reach. For example, once you hit 15 it would add +1, or +2. When you hit 17 it would add it to 19, 18 to 20. Thus never keeping a steady bps. I see "ramps 3 bps.." all the time, esp on DM4s. That is how I came to that assumption. It would add 3bps after a certain bps was reached. It seems it would be "ideal" to add it +1 for every 2 over 15. Example: you hit 15, it adds 1, 17 it adds 2, 19 it adds 3. Would be difficult to find such things. Of course programming this would be hard, no?


Just curious, I am not looking to get my e-mag flashed to 4.2, as I don't own one. Just wanted to get some clarity.

[Miscue]

First off, let me say i don't own an e/x-mag. I am just more or less curious.

Miscue, you wrote 4.0 software? Completely independent of AGD? I mean you don't work for AGD? How did people get the 4.0 software? Was it distributed with a batch of e/x mags? Do you flash markers to 4.2?

What are all the differences in the software? 1.2, 3.2, 4.1? Or whatever they may be...

I was also under the impression that ramping software would add balls after a certain bps was reach. For example, once you hit 15 it would add +1, or +2. When you hit 17 it would add it to 19, 18 to 20. Thus never keeping a steady bps. I see "ramps 3 bps.." all the time, esp on DM4s. That is how I came to that assumption. It would add 3bps after a certain bps was reached. It seems it would be "ideal" to add it +1 for every 2 over 15. Example: you hit 15, it adds 1, 17 it adds 2, 19 it adds 3. Would be difficult to find such things. Of course programming this would be hard, no?


Just curious, I am not looking to get my e-mag flashed to 4.2, as I don't own one. Just wanted to get some clarity.

No, Tom asked me to make it. I started Q1.x right after AGD announced 3.0 and its features. I think it took me just a couple days to match 3.0's core features, and I put in some extra stuff like a BPS meter, and then I sent TK a copy of it - this led up to the AGD 4.x thing.

I didn't fill him in on 4.20 until I had it done and had some promising (but not yet definitive) results. I don't think he knew I was still thinking about it. Heck, I thought I was done with it at 4.01 and would leave it to die. And, that could very well be the case with 4.20 as well - unfortunately - even if I could eventually verify that it does fix the problems... not 100% sure on that yet... waiting for the odd-ball EMag that spoils it like last time.

Mostly AGD people have it, and a few markers were flashed at a California meet - and that's how I discovered the FA issues - the marker I was testing did not have these problems so I never ran into them beforehand.

The description of ramping that you're talking about, is pretty much how I think of it as well. Basically, it's "Turbo" or "Hyper" mode with a different name as disquise - since "Turbo" is specifically not allowed. But what makes it different from traditional turbo mode is that it can shoot at a variable speed, depending on what is being maintained on the trigger. I don't know if boards labeled as "Ramping" actually do what you described - could be something else, like outright turbo mode or some slight variation. The reason I think this is... the markers I've observed at the tournies - they basically shoot as though they are a steady full-auto as long as fingers are wiggled quick enough. They really take off - machine guns.

No, it's not particularly difficult to implement.

1.x was the original stuff for the EMag. 2.x eventually had ACE code for XMag. 3.x had rudimentary shot buffering. 4.x corrects 3.x's shortcomings - it's the result of a paintballer who owns the marker and knows what he wants in an electro, versus programmers who don't have those insights and are limited to what a client requests - and no extra.

[Z-man]

Having used 4.0 and 4.01 for over 6 months I feel qualified to make some comments on how it feels and what it does. The board on my SFL is a european model My debounce is stuck at 10 so there is no issue of the debounce influencing my results.

Like Miscue said, the board does not ramp (i.e start adding shots after you hit X BPS) The shot buffering however IS what really helps out. If you spend some time and experiment with the board capped at different ROF's you can find how the shot buffering actually works.

With 4.0x’s shot buffering you will get a perfect steady ROF as long as you can pull that many shots per second. If I set the ROF at 12bps (which most of us could walk) you would get a perfect uninterrupted stream of 12bps till you backed off. I myself find that about 18bps is the most I can reach with any consistency. I can hit pockets where I get a 10-20 rounds of 18bps but then I slow down and I get the inconsistent tap, taptap tap...tap of unassisted walking.

Now if I set the ROF to something that is near impossible to reach like say 22, 24bps then I might get little 2 shot bursts that hit that ROF but you wont see it sustained unless you are in hybrid mode which helps a little ;)

Inspired by this thread I will have a 4.0 shot buffering demo later this week but for now you can see the demo in a limited fashion in my old video below (its 29MB and in QuickTime format so cry me a river).

http://homepage.mac.com/zvetter/.Movies/SFL%204.0%20Testing.mov

[RTDynaflow]

wow, thank you. That video reminded me of why i dont post on pbn. Sweet mag btw.

[eadtf]

This software does not let you harmlessly play Tetris on your PC - it controls a device that shoots projectiles - and there are safety issues.


So official sounding! :p

Lawsuits, probably not!

The electronics cannot make the marker do something that it mechanically is not capable of doing. Example, the worse program in the world cannot make the Air Tank explode. It cannot make the bolt start shooting bullets instead of paintballs. It cannot adjust the pressure released on the ball so that the ball is shooting 1000 fps. Yes you could damage your electronics, yes you could mechanically mess up the on/off, bolt action, and trigger assembly, these are hardly lawsuits. The only real danger you face external to the marker is full auto.

If it happens off the field, you should have a barrel sock or plug anyways. If not the lawsuit may be against you! If it were to happen on a field, well I sure as hell would make the best of it and go for a few kills. :argh:

By the way my job is shooting projectiles! The best safety - my trigger finger!

[Miscue]

So official sounding! :p

Lawsuits, probably not!

The electronics cannot make the marker do something that it mechanically is not capable of doing. Example, the worse program in the world cannot make the Air Tank explode. It cannot make the bolt start shooting bullets instead of paintballs. It cannot adjust the pressure released on the ball so that the ball is shooting 1000 fps. Yes you could damage your electronics, yes you could mechanically mess up the on/off, bolt action, and trigger assembly, these are hardly lawsuits. The only real danger you face external to the marker is full auto.

If it happens off the field, you should have a barrel sock or plug anyways. If not the lawsuit may be against you! If it were to happen on a field, well I sure as hell would make the best of it and go for a few kills. :argh:

By the way my job is shooting projectiles! The best safety - my trigger finger!

The worst it can do is misfire and injure someone - shoot an eye or both out.

You bet it can result in a lawsuit. It's happened before. And even if it's determined that you're not at fault, it can cost hundreds of thousands to defend against the suit. It's a very real problem that has occurred before at great expense. And then there's the burden of knowing something you made hurt someone - even if it wasn't your fault it's hard not to blame yourself... and that's something you have to live with.

[Dayspring]

Well I'll put it to you this way.

Kid shoots his eye out. Parents sue Tom because it was his gun. (Not mentioning the fact that the kid did something stupid.) Tom procedes to sue Danny Tippmann because there was a Tippmann air tank attached and Tom's gun couldn't do anything if it wasn't for the tank. (true story, told by Tom himself.)

So lawsuits are a more real thing than you might be lead to believe. Also, your best safety may be your trigger finger, but do you trust everybody elses? I doubt it...

[shatter_storm]

Eadtf: Please take a little bit of advice from someone in the software industry.

Most programmers do not like sharing their code. We react quite like if someone had asked to see our wife naked - the answer is (usually) a resounding no and we get a bit offended. Miscue probably isn't going to give you his code and probably won't show any of it to anyone other than TK himself and the techs that would understand such code. I can't say I blame him, there are a few very good reasons why he shouldn't give it to anyone.

However, don't get discouraged. You can get what you want out of the e/x-mag. Find someone with:
1) Knowledge of embedded systems. You'll probably want them to have a degree or a few year's experience so that you know they'll produce something worthwhile.
2) Money. Programmers (the actual hardware itself) arn't free. I know AGD built some pins into the board for programming purposes - figure out if they're using serial or parallel programming mode and design an interface to fit.
3) Time. Miscue wrote 4.0 in "a couple of" days, he said. I don't doubt that fact, but I'm betting he has production level experience with embedded systems and probably has prior experience with the emag board or the chip used on it. Assuming you hit a few roadblocks and have to go digging for info or experimenting with things, I think you could have a semi stable codebase ready in a week or two.

At the end of all this, you'll be able to flash your gun to say whatever at boot, have multiple firing modes, and do whatever your little heart desires.

[adlar]

I agree with some of the programmers here. If you really want it, program it yourself. The project itself could be more interesting than the end result. Warpig has an article on how to play with BASIC stamps and get them working with paintball markers. Start by trying to understand Bill's code, then delve into pbasic and learn how to make it do what you want. This code is easier to understand than assembly languages. PBasic is a little more cryptic than C, Pascal, VB, Java and most scripting languages so don't expect to write code that makes sense overnight. I've got a Basic stamp sitting on my desk right now, and believe me making that first led blink on and off is a lot more exciting than the first hello world program many people write in their intro programming classes. Besides the programming itself, there is the battle to get the electronics and mechanics to do what your program is asking. Just because you can tell the solenoid to fire doesn't mean it will trip the sear. I think Miscue has had to really observe how his marker reacts to each revision of his code. Without that observation, having his code would offer you little insight into why he made the decisions he did, and how it affected the operation of the marker. Thus modifying the code would leave you open to making many of the mistakes he had already solved through his own development process.

[sig11]

There are no bugs - the software has been flawless for quite some time. The hardware has been the problem. If you can make a very small, cheap, and effective degausser - then you'll have my attention.

I liked your analogy. :) I assume you're wanting to degauss the HES? That would require a pretty large curren't even though the target is small won't it?

Lee

[Miscue]

I liked your analogy. :) I assume you're wanting to degauss the HES? That would require a pretty large curren't even though the target is small won't it?

Lee

Nope, not the HES.

[Miscue]

I agree with some of the programmers here. If you really want it, program it yourself. The project itself could be more interesting than the end result. Warpig has an article on how to play with BASIC stamps and get them working with paintball markers. Start by trying to understand Bill's code, then delve into pbasic and learn how to make it do what you want. This code is easier to understand than assembly languages. PBasic is a little more cryptic than C, Pascal, VB, Java and most scripting languages so don't expect to write code that makes sense overnight. I've got a Basic stamp sitting on my desk right now, and believe me making that first led blink on and off is a lot more exciting than the first hello world program many people write in their intro programming classes. Besides the programming itself, there is the battle to get the electronics and mechanics to do what your program is asking. Just because you can tell the solenoid to fire doesn't mean it will trip the sear. I think Miscue has had to really observe how his marker reacts to each revision of his code. Without that observation, having his code would offer you little insight into why he made the decisions he did, and how it affected the operation of the marker. Thus modifying the code would leave you open to making many of the mistakes he had already solved through his own development process.

Yeah, the actual code took little time - when I said 2 days I meant about 48 hours, including debugging and testing... most of the bang-head-on-wall stuff I had taken care of in Q1.x. Everything up to AGD 4.x inclusively represents at least a couple hundred hours of time, including maintenance, field testing, and such. It's only like 750 instructions I think - and a lot of it is necessary background stuff, like the menu system, display driver, etc. 95%+ of my time was not spent on actual coding - a lot of testing and experimenting... trying different things, of course making some changes here and there. I put way more time doing robustness checks rather than coding - trying to break the software with every conceivable situation... making sure that it is indeed logically flawless and effectively deals with external problems.

Yeah, there are nuances that you would not think of, until you actually ran into these problems as you're working on it. The snags I ran into, I had no way of anticipating (it wasn't because I had program errors) - some of them took a good amount of time to figure out and fix... like stuff stored in the EEPROM magically disappearing at random because the chip is quirky - that was a fun one. Turned out to be EEPROM reads (not writes) under certain conditions would write garbage to the EEPROM... go figure. Heck, that last sentence represents hours worth of work and frustration, and lots of caffeine, to even figure that out - let alone fix it.

The problem reproduces itself on very rare occassion (and not on every marker = I had to thoroughly test multiple markers) and I had to drain the battery just right... recharge the battery, drain it... etc... to put it under the right conditions. I came up with an obscure solution to the obscure problem that happens at random once in a blue moon on some markers, a coded solution that is entirely unrecognizable to anyone but me - unless you understand why and when it happens, and how to avoid it... requiring hours of screwing with it much like I did. So, you guys just want me to just hand over the code eh? :rofl:

It is related with a lack of hardware-based brown-out protection, and the chip operating incorrectly under low-voltage conditions (there's another $100 tip for ya). This is one of several oddities I ran into... and was not the worst of them. Anyone complain about 3.2's EEPROM storage and stuff like the shot counter and various settings getting screwed up? Now compare that to people complaining about 4.x EEPROM storage. Tee hee. There's a reason for that.

Your last two sentences are on the money - not everyone understands this, and it's hard to communicate that idea in a way that someone can swallow - so they don't think you're just trying to be evasive. In a way it requires a leap of faith, and the acceptance that I know what's going on - having very good reasons and the insight to not hand my work over... which I can't do anyway because it's not really mine anymore.

[Miscue]

Eadtf: Please take a little bit of advice from someone in the software industry.

Most programmers do not like sharing their code. We react quite like if someone had asked to see our wife naked - the answer is (usually) a resounding no and we get a bit offended. Miscue probably isn't going to give you his code and probably won't show any of it to anyone other than TK himself and the techs that would understand such code. I can't say I blame him, there are a few very good reasons why he shouldn't give it to anyone.

However, don't get discouraged. You can get what you want out of the e/x-mag. Find someone with:
1) Knowledge of embedded systems. You'll probably want them to have a degree or a few year's experience so that you know they'll produce something worthwhile.
2) Money. Programmers (the actual hardware itself) arn't free. I know AGD built some pins into the board for programming purposes - figure out if they're using serial or parallel programming mode and design an interface to fit.
3) Time. Miscue wrote 4.0 in "a couple of" days, he said. I don't doubt that fact, but I'm betting he has production level experience with embedded systems and probably has prior experience with the emag board or the chip used on it. Assuming you hit a few roadblocks and have to go digging for info or experimenting with things, I think you could have a semi stable codebase ready in a week or two.

At the end of all this, you'll be able to flash your gun to say whatever at boot, have multiple firing modes, and do whatever your little heart desires.

I'm in agreement with you. The source code is also not mine to give, even if I wanted to - which I don't for numerous reasons - primarily because it would get in the hands of incompetent or non-programmers, and good programmers do not need it to begin with... no good can come of it. To make significant changes, would require large portions of 4.x to be thrown out - might as well start over - it is not particularly modular code where you can simply cut and paste w/o breaking something else. Whatever I make is property of AGD - I do not own it, and thus cannot distribute it.

[RTDynaflow]

So, would you flash someone mag to 4.2 for a fee? If you would rather not answer this thats fine. Just curious how some of these people have the 4.0 stuff...

if this was answered previously forgive me ;)

[Miscue]

So, would you flash someone mag to 4.2 for a fee? If you would rather not answer this thats fine. Just curious how some of these people have the 4.0 stuff...

if this was answered previously forgive me ;)

Nope... sorry.

[Flossabe]

Wow i never thought that my thread would go this far. Well ill give you a cookie for effort Z-man, but no choclate chips. Miscue congrats on your finishing your software, i still love my 4.0 to bad we cant get a version of it. I was also wondering, miscue, if you changed the voltages controlling the selonid in 4.00, i had some issues with my selonoid resetting, fixed it with an on/off pin adjustment, cus of the Micro E mag, wondering just to know if I did not have my on off pin adjustment correct in the first place or if it wasant pulling the plunger as forcefully.

Thanks,


Flossabizle

[Miscue]

Wow i never thought that my thread would go this far. Well ill give you a cookie for effort Z-man, but no choclate chips. Miscue congrats on your finishing your software, i still love my 4.0 to bad we cant get a version of it. I was also wondering, miscue, if you changed the voltages controlling the selonid in 4.00, i had some issues with my selonoid resetting, fixed it with an on/off pin adjustment, cus of the Micro E mag, wondering just to know if I did not have my on off pin adjustment correct in the first place or if it wasant pulling the plunger as forcefully.

Thanks,


Flossabizle

Well, it's pretty much on or off - and the voltage can't really be changed. I suppose it could be pulse modulated so that the average voltage given an amount of time is lower - but the software does not do that.

Thanks... I'd really like it if everyone who wants it could get it, honestly... especially now that I 'believe' the safety issues have been cured, or at least I've been unable to duplicate them - and I've tried. I really want to believe I've fixed it - which would make me happy, but I'm also careful and skeptical - and testing with numerous markers has not been done. I do know for sure that 4.20 is at the least, very effective at addressing the problem. I kinda would like AGD to consider releasing it (particularly when it was written by request in the first place) if it can be independently verified as a 100% solution. *Hint* Bug TK about it... hehe. */hint*

[RoadDawg]

I love my 4.0. Not sure what BlackVCG did but he removed all signs of f/a. Even w/o air or in Hybrid I can't get it to shoot more then a single shot. I do wish I could change my boot up message but it adds that ultimate customization.

[Miscue]

I love my 4.0. Not sure what BlackVCG did but he removed all signs of f/a. Even w/o air or in Hybrid I can't get it to shoot more then a single shot. I do wish I could change my boot up message but it adds that ultimate customization.

Hehe, I like that boot screen too - It's the FIRST thing I worked on besides a very primitive semi-auto and full-auto just for giggles. People were posting that 3.2 maxed out the chip's memory, and a full alphanumeric character set could not be done. I wanted to blow that out of the water, and got the full alphabet, room for a whole sentence to scroll through (both collectively use up about 25% of the program space), match 3.0's features minus the bugs - and it was still smaller than 3.0, :p I could probably have it cite a short poem, and still be smaller... really. But I needed that extra space to put in the extra stuff in 4.x, that 3.x does not have.

[sig11]

Had you worked with the Atmel chips before, Miscue?

I lost my damn allen wrenches. I was going to play around a bit last night. ;/

[Miscue]

Had you worked with the Atmel chips before, Miscue?

I lost my damn allen wrenches. I was going to play around a bit last night. ;/

No - x86/PPC/Alpha ASM is what I did a little of before... it didn't take much time to learn the Atmel, it's pretty easy to use.

If some of you are curious - I could be tempted to post an overview of what assembly is, how it works, and some basics... maybe show you MIPS or something... or the Atmel I suppose. It's not particularly hard, but there is a learning curve.

[Miltonyz]

If some of you are curious - I could be tempted to post an overview of what assembly is, how it works, and some basics...

I'd be interested if it wasn't too much work for you.

[Miscue]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=152188

Where, there it is.

[Z-man]

Well they are not the most impressive of my videos but they do illustrate the basic idea of 4.0. Sorry guys I did all this with my debounce at 10 so no perfect strings of 20+ :). Still I think it's descriptive eh?

Part 1 (11MB and about 50 sec long) (http://www.zakvetter.com/videos/shot_buffering_pt1.mov)

Part 2 (18MB about 1min 30 sec) (http://www.zakvetter.com/videos/shot_buffering_pt2.mov)

[RTDynaflow]

Awesome videos
Must you use quicktime? I just spent 1 1/2 hrs downloading a 30 second video... :rofl: Haven't we come up with better ways to transfer files? :shooting: Quicktime

Love the site and the videos. Wish I had broadband...

EDIT: Ahh, sprinklers... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[NoLoveInFear]

As a new owner of an X-mag it is great to know that there is still work being done on the software for these amazing markers. TK, I want my 4.2 :-) If miscue feels confident about this, you should stand behind him and support his hard work and let us, the valued loyal AGD owners reap the benefits of said hard work. Thanks, and please consider this request. Thanks.

[eadtf]

As a new owner of an X-mag it is great to know that there is still work being done on the software for these amazing markers. TK, I want my 4.2 :-) If miscue feels confident about this, you should stand behind him and support his hard work and let us, the valued loyal AGD owners reap the benefits of said hard work. Thanks, and please consider this request. Thanks.

I am with you; however, I would not count on it. AGD made their money off the sell of these markers and although they have great customer service they have nothing to gain financially by supporting future development of their products.

What I do see third party programmers developing code and selling it.

[VR4SL]

MISCUE,

The crazy part of all this is that I am actually learning all about exactly what you are doing in one of my engineering classes. The simple fact that I actually understand what the hell you are talking about makes me want to slap myself up upside the head and call myself a nerd!

Then again... perhaps maybe I should pay attention a little more (or just start going to that class again) so I can start screwing with these boards. I have been hooked on the XMag since I bought my first, I have plenty of time :cheers:

[Miscue]

I am with you; however, I would not count on it. AGD made their money off the sell of these markers and although they have great customer service they have nothing to gain financially by supporting future development of their products.

What I do see third party programmers developing code and selling it.

It would not surprise me either way.

There's a couple other people who've made their own software, actually. But I don't think anyone really knows about it. And, it seems they are keeping it to themselves.

Unfortunately, it's going to take someone other than me to get you new stuff - I cannot release anything.

The other option is to get a different gun with better software than what's available for the EMag.

[FragTek]

You know that burst modes and full auto modes aren't allowed in scenarios nor in regular play.

That depends on where you play I'd assume. Every scenario I've been to has allowed bot burst and full auto.

[chirogator]

Lots of energy has been devoted to the idea of changing software, codes, and the such... :mad:

How 'bout ya just install a morlock - mini morlock - predator board for about $100 and you can have FA, Burst, Turbo (3 shots for every 2 pulls), semi, and anything in between! :shooting:


Just a thought! :dance:

[Beemer]

UMMMM can you say Safety, Liability, Law suits, ASTM Safety standards. :wow:
Who Puts up bullit proof wall till the smoke clears? Guess why.

Now ask yourself why AGD doesnt do what everybody else does. He dont like to follow the heard. Its like CYA mode.

[VR4SL]

MISCUE-

I actually have an idea for you, if you are going to continue to mess with the software.

Why not replace the trgger-test mode with a chrono mode? Meaning, instead of having the code activate the "on/off" on the LCD, it turns On/Off the soliod, and HOLDS it on/off as to what the trigger is doing. In this mode, it would be possible to chrono the marker without the trigger rod in place, as it would function exactly like mechanical...just no bounce.

Perhaps maybe revise 3.2 with ONLY this change, and make it 3.3 or something and release it...? at least then there is no F/A liability as you never touched any of that...

[Miscue]

MISCUE-

I actually have an idea for you, if you are going to continue to mess with the software.

Why not replace the trgger-test mode with a chrono mode? Meaning, instead of having the code activate the "on/off" on the LCD, it turns On/Off the soliod, and HOLDS it on/off as to what the trigger is doing. In this mode, it would be possible to chrono the marker without the trigger rod in place, as it would function exactly like mechanical...just no bounce.

Perhaps maybe revise 3.2 with ONLY this change, and make it 3.3 or something and release it...? at least then there is no F/A liability as you never touched any of that...

RT Chrono mode was one of the first things I thought about trying. It seemed like a good idea at first, but then I started to ask myself... why?

As for technical reasons... if the solenoid is on for even a second or so - it heats up really bad and can start melting stuff. It's pretty much out of the question.

Well, if there was something that could have been 3.3 - it would have been my original Q1.1 software. The timing was bad though, I had it done about the same time as 3.2 was getting out. There would have been a lot of pissed of people if they just flashed to 3.2 - and something new was out just days later. The other part is, AGD had just invested in 3.2 - and they basically would have thrown away all that money by adopting a replacement so soon. What's kind of unfortunate - is all that was needed was a simple "Can anyone write this?" and I could have had a prototype in a bit over a week - and maybe 3.2 would not even exist. You could have had a BPS meter, scrolling text, warp priming when ACE fails to see ball, and a shot counter that works correctly. :p Oh well.

[Beemer]

so whats stopping that now?????

[VR4SL]

hmmm, the rapid heating of the solenoid crossed my mind, but I didnt think it would be that large of a problem. How about something that would allow you to hold the trigger, and ir fires, holds for .5 sec or so, and then releases and fires a normal shot in rapid succession?

The need for a better way to chrono remains a fairly big deal, as it is a PITA.

[Lessthanusual]

Miscue,

I'm interested in helping you beta test that software.




Want to test 4.20 on my marker? :D

[Miscue]

hmmm, the rapid heating of the solenoid crossed my mind, but I didnt think it would be that large of a problem. How about something that would allow you to hold the trigger, and ir fires, holds for .5 sec or so, and then releases and fires a normal shot in rapid succession?

The need for a better way to chrono remains a fairly big deal, as it is a PITA.

Thought about that too - but that is full-auto. And really, you don't need an electronic chrono mode.

Don't need beta testers... sorry. Testing is done.

[VR4SL]

Thought about that too - but that is full-auto. And really, you don't need an electronic chrono mode.

Don't need beta testers... sorry. Testing is done.

Not full-auto, 2-shot burst at best, and SLOW, no more than 2 BPS... no way any tournys would care, it is far too slow to even be useful. Could always make it lockable with a board jumper...

Why would you say there is no need for an electronic chrono mode? Some tournys request the trigger rod is removed for play.... kind of hard to chrono without that- isnt it? an electronic mode would eliminate the hassle of installing the rod JUST to chrono.

[eadtf]

Thought about that too - but that is full-auto. And really, you don't need an electronic chrono mode.

Don't need beta testers... sorry. Testing is done.

So if the testing is done I can only assume that the software is good to go and you fixxed the 4.1 glitches. So what is it going to take for me to get my marker flashed? Must all E / X - Mag owners appeal to AGD? If so, let me know and I will begin the campaign.

[my2crazyeyes]

Miscue, Sorry if you awnsered this question already but, how would I go about flashing new software onto the emag? after reading this, and realizing that my Computer Architecture class was helpful, I have been really excited about trying to write some new software for the emag.

THanks for the help,

-Chris

[Miscue]

Miscue, Sorry if you awnsered this question already but, how would I go about flashing new software onto the emag? after reading this, and realizing that my Computer Architecture class was helpful, I have been really excited about trying to write some new software for the emag.

THanks for the help,

-Chris

Check your PM.

Computer Architecture eh? That's the class I was taking when I broke my leg. Rolled up in a wheel chair, and took my final doped up on pain killers. :p

[Miscue]

Not full-auto, 2-shot burst at best, and SLOW, no more than 2 BPS... no way any tournys would care, it is far too slow to even be useful. Could always make it lockable with a board jumper...

Why would you say there is no need for an electronic chrono mode? Some tournys request the trigger rod is removed for play.... kind of hard to chrono without that- isnt it? an electronic mode would eliminate the hassle of installing the rod JUST to chrono.

No way. There are potential safety hazards with that, if you think about it. It's not just about what the league's "care about."

[VR4SL]

No way. There are potential safety hazards with that, if you think about it. It's not just about what the league's "care about."


You and I are certainly on different pages with this topic. How can there POSSIBLY be a safety issue with this??? it cant do anything more than you can do by yourself- in fact much less. its not like then gun will shoot itself, you would have to Pull and hold the trigger for over 1 sec just for it to complete to two chrono shots. It is not like rapid firing this mode will accomplish anything out of the ordinary, or the gun will shoot itself, etc. I am very curious to see why you think there is a safety issue with this, I just cant figure out where you are coming from.

[ah137]

You and I are certainly on different pages with this topic. How can there POSSIBLY be a safety issue with this??? it cant do anything more than you can do by yourself- in fact much less. its not like then gun will shoot itself, you would have to Pull and hold the trigger for over 1 sec just for it to complete to two chrono shots. It is not like rapid firing this mode will accomplish anything out of the ordinary, or the gun will shoot itself, etc. I am very curious to see why you think there is a safety issue with this, I just cant figure out where you are coming from.

Simple, if the gun is dropped or goes haywire, its going to shoot, and keep shooting. With Semi only there is far less chance of this happening. And if it does it would more than likely be only one shoot.

It doesn't matter if its 1bps-20bps, there is a risk.

Hills

[VR4SL]

Simple, if the gun is dropped or goes haywire, its going to shoot, and keep shooting. With Semi only there is far less chance of this happening. And if it does it would more than likely be only one shoot.

It doesn't matter if its 1bps-20bps, there is a risk.

Hills

Dude, if it is YOUR GUN NOW in SEMI and it is dropped or goes haywire- it is going to ALSO SHOOT. How is this any different? And again, where are you coming up with the fact it is going to KEEP SHOOTING? I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT F/A HERE GUYS- where are you getting this from?!?! The MAX it COULD shoot would be TWO BALLS- and thats only if the trigger remained pressed for over a second. dropping it isnt going to do that. And what about your barrel plug? safety? why would the marker be in chrono mode anyway while you are toting it around? Hmm... the E-mag used to have shot-bursts anyway, and you are telling me this is worse? There are still boards around with that software. A BPS that is so low its rediculous, have to hold the trigger, and 2 Ball Max... yeah, sounds really dangerous to me. :rolleyes:

Ugh, I give up- you guys win. If you want to overcomplicate everything, be my guest. People like you guys are the reason nothing ever happens in business- you think too much. :cuss:

[REDRT]

You know machining a classic rt valve to except the ule trigger kit voids the warranty. If say,"the 4.2 voids my warranty...void it".

After all it's 26bps max vs the 3.2's 20 bps max. correct? The 4.2 gives us some added features, like everybody else has. correct? There is no full auto. correct? How then can you go to a tourny with a marker that is claimed 30+ bps and play? While we MAG-niacs are told, we are not going to bump everyone up to the next level cause of the "rules" and "lawsuits" For modifying existing products! My A$$, it's all about the O'mighty dollar and that isn't pofitable enough to do for us past loyal costumers with discontinued markers!! :mad:

[Miscue]

Simple, if the gun is dropped or goes haywire, its going to shoot, and keep shooting. With Semi only there is far less chance of this happening. And if it does it would more than likely be only one shoot.

It doesn't matter if its 1bps-20bps, there is a risk.

Hills

Yup, you got it. Pretty simple eh. Accidental discharge with semi = 1 shot. Accidental discharge with 1-2bps FA = barrel sock/plug shot off, then it fires another shot.

You can think of a number of things that could happen. Sure, some are not too likely (in the individual case) - but tell that to the person who gets an eye shot out by a convenience feature that did not need to be there.

[Miscue]

you think too much. :cuss:

Damn skippy. I will think too much every time when it comes to safety. This is a damn game - there is nothing about it worth having a potential safety problem - even if it is remote.

[nightmareS]

You know guys. I hear alot of stuff this guy has 4.0, this guy is working with 4.0, and that guy has perfected 4. whatever. All I have to say, and don't take this wrong, is enough with the teasing. It's like high school all over again. I want it, where can I flash it, who do I have to shoot to get it? It rips, it's wicked, it's sick. Well I want to know first hand. I don't care if it voids my warrenty, and if you don't practice safe play you shouldn't play. So that being said and my venting over. Miscue, someone please help us

[Z-man]

There is no teasing, there is not secrecy and its been posted many times over exactly where AGD stands on the issue, why its not out for public release, who made it, what they made it in, whey they still are working on it and what the reasons are. It's all here right on this forum under EVERYONE's nose!

Now see if this was posted on one of the many other threads in the paintball talk section I would point this out but you are asking these questions in the VERY THREAD that all the answers are in. Miscue himself has answered and repeatedly answered everything you are asking over the last 4 pages here. Go back and read it! It's right here!

[eadtf]

Well I agree the same questions are coming up again and again, I too disagree that the safety argument holds little weight, but that is my opinion. I too want to "void" my warranty and get my X-Mag flashed to the 4.2.

Two Questions that have gone unanswered by Miscue:

What will it take to get 4.2, do we all have to start emailing AGD to make them start flashing markers?

I saw a E-Mag on eBay that claims it had 4.2, could this be true?

View it here: 4.2 E-Mag (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7103695254&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT)

Thanks Again...

Also if you are new to this thread please go back and read all the posts before posting.

[Target Practice]

Why can't you guys get it through your heads?!?! :mad:


You will not get 4.0 or 4.2. It is not endorsed or distributed by AGD. No one will flash your boards. Those with 4.0 should not sell their guns (even if they have no Full-Auto issues), because the potential for Full-Auto is present. This is a safety hazard.

Quit asking. 3.2 is it. Deal with it.

Oh, yeah...

Read the damn thread!

[Target Practice]

While we MAG-niacs are told, we are not going to bump everyone up to the next level cause of the "rules" and "lawsuits" For modifying existing products! My A$$, it's all about the O'mighty dollar and that isn't pofitable enough to do for us past loyal costumers with discontinued markers!! :mad:

You, my friend, are an idiot. Maybe you should pull your head out of your rectal cavity long enough to sell of everything AGD-related that you own, then head on over to PBN.

[Miscue]

Well I agree the same questions are coming up again and again, I too disagree that the safety argument holds little weight, but that is my opinion. I too want to "void" my warranty and get my X-Mag flashed to the 4.2.

Two Questions that have gone unanswered by Miscue:

What will it take to get 4.2, do we all have to start emailing AGD to make them start flashing markers?

I saw a E-Mag on eBay that claims it had 4.2, could this be true?

View it here: 4.2 E-Mag (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7103695254&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT)

Thanks Again...

Also if you are new to this thread please go back and read all the posts before posting.

Beautiful. I do not know how it can be possible for that to have 4.2. The only ones with the ability to flash that are Tom Kaye, myself, Kayle, Rob, and Jason (Tato). If one of them has been distributing it, then it's a breech of trust issue- but I doubt that has happened.

I just made the thing like a couple weeks ago - how could some guy in Georgia have it??? I hope they are lying, or it raises questtions. This stuff is beginning to piss me off more than it did.

Safety argument has little weight???? I wrote the freakin thing, what makes you think I don't understand the situation better than you? You have no idea what is going on.

I'm taking a break from AO - I do not know how long or permanent it will be. I'm going to need to re-evaluate once again why I'm even involved in paintball. There's just endless... endless crap.

[eadtf]

Safety argument has little weight???? I wrote the freakin thing, what makes you think I don't understand the situation better than you? You have no idea what is going on.

I'm taking a break from AO - I do not know how long or permanent it will be. I'm going to need to re-evaluate once again why I'm even involved in paintball. There's just endless... endless crap.

As I stated in a previous post:


Lawsuits, probably not!

The electronics cannot make the marker do something that it mechanically is not capable of doing. Example, the worse program in the world cannot make the Air Tank explode. It cannot make the bolt start shooting bullets instead of paintballs. It cannot adjust the pressure released on the ball so that the ball is shooting 1000 fps. Yes you could damage your electronics, yes you could mechanically mess up the on/off, bolt action, and trigger assembly, these are hardly lawsuits. The only real danger you face external to the marker is full auto.

If it happens off the field, you should have a barrel sock or plug anyways. If not the lawsuit may be against you! If it were to happen on a field, well I sure as hell would make the best of it and go for a few kills.


The things we are talking about doing are not new ideas, they have all been done by other manufactures and there has not been any million dollar lawsuit so please stop acting like you are some ****ing god, get off your horse, and shut the hell up. I think with your attitude you should take a break from playing paintball or posting on the forums because the reality is your not the one to make the decision anyways.



You, my friend, are an idiot. Maybe you should pull your head out of your rectal cavity long enough to sell of everything AGD-related that you own, then head on over to PBN.


No Target you’re the idiot!!! This has everything to do with money but I am willing to bet your education is too limited to know that. And if you are tired of people asking questions about 4.2 then please don’t bother reading this thread anymore. The fact that this thread has received so many views in only a few weeks is testament that others are interested in it!

[Potatoboy]

This thread is being locked.

It's just started heading down the toilet, think of it as a courtesy flush.