Agg Mag (mQ-Valve)

[mquinn96]

Well, a few of you knew this was in the works, but here it is in all its AGG glory!
Drum roll........

The Q Mag with an mQ-Valve running off an e-blade.
The beast was made in PBX Ballistix Labs. That is Mel holding it.
The sucker rips as fast as any gun out there.

This is an alpha prototype of an inline gun design. For simplicity's sake, we used parts that were readily available.

[soccer4minimags]

whoa, somebody actually got an eblade on a mag.

[evo.end3R]

:wow: i want one! thats sweet

[spantol]

Taking preorders? :)

[Ratzo]

Very cool!
That would be great showing up at the field and spanking all the E-Cockers with an E-Bladed Mag.
That would be serious M-AGGNESS.

[Dayspring]

If anybody is in line for this, I am. :D

[SpecialBlend2786]

Thats awesome! It would be even more so if you could get the Eblades eyes to work witht he mag :headbang: :shooting:

[Dayspring]

One project at a time... :)

[Chojin Man]

what the heck is a mQ-Valve? :confused:

[Dayspring]

PBX's new valve that (in a cocker) allows you to remove most of the reciprocating weight. It becomes fully pneumatic, doesn't require a secondary LPR (like the Osiris) and will work with ANY e-grip for the cocker (except the Uprising).

We've been tested by sound graph to be firing paint in excess of 30bps.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=628338

[Carbon]

Mquinn

that is the shizzle. Now lets get a vid of the bad mofo shooting!

[PBX Ronin 23]

Alright, I have already asked DaySpring and I have a few questions that he referred me to you to answer.

1) Does it use the Mag sear assembly?
2) If no, whats holding the bolt back? If no bolt, whats pushing the ball into the breech?
3) Does it use Level 10? If not, how at those speeds do you keep the marker from chopping?
4) Does it still use a spring return? If not, is there a ram that returns the bolt to the original/cocked position? If no ram, and no spring, how does it work?
5) It appears to use the powertube front half of a mag valve. Does it, or is that a whole new assembly we are seeing in the pic?
6) If its just as fast as any other electro frame(hyperframe, e-mag frame, etc) what's the fucntional advantage of this over another?
ANSWERS:
1. No it doesn't. It actually replaces the entire valve assembly with something significantly lighter. The mQ-Valve, as platformed on a Cocker, did 36bps with the only limiting factor being the loader.
2. See above.
3. Can't go into detail as far as how it will not have the chopping problems associated with the Level-7's. But if this thing ever hits the market, some ball sensing system will be implemented.
4. See Answer no. 3. There is no Ram. The number of parts are drastically reduced as well as the overall weight of the gun.
5. Whole new assembly.
6. Speed. Simplicity. Ease of maintenance. Efficiency. Tuneability.

Although this has been something that I've privately mentioned to only my closest compadres, we've always wanted to do something a$$-kicking with the 'Mag.

Maybe we can now revive the age-old battle of the titans........Mags vs. Cockers. ;)

[AGD]

So if it doesnt use the mag valve how is it a mag besides the body?

AGD

[Bonx0007]

strokes of genius usually come simultaniously..... It happens with many great inventions. :ninja:

[PBX Ronin 23]

So if it doesnt use the mag valve how is it a mag besides the body?

AGDBesides the body and rail, no.

[MindJob]

The real question Mel, is

Where can I get a shirt like that one?

[SPY 1]

That is a nice conversion but it´s not quite a mag but still very nice do. And yeah Mel that shirt is cool :headbang: :headbang:

[The Action Figure]

but the airlines are that of a mag, so is the vert asa

[Duck Hunt]

Sooooooooo no mag valve, just the body, rail and possibly powertube...doesn't sound like a Mag to me!!!

And as for the "Mags Vs Cocker" debate well, you can buy a stock mag now that beats the pants off of any stock cocker... so it looks like its settled!


I vote NOT A MAG :dance:

Sean

[PBX Ronin 23]

My bad......spring holds the bolt back.

[slade]

that looks awesome... i cant wait to hear more about it. as far as it not being a mag, it looks like just as much of a mag as a the osiris is a cocker.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

At fist loom i was like SWEET! but after reading and stuff it said it doesnt use a mag valve and pretty much anything else that makes a mag a mag beside the body and rail. Its a sweet idea but its just not a mag.

[Dayspring]

Vengance Gear


The real question Mel, is

Where can I get a shirt like that one?

[slade]

oh yeah, and also... we want a vid ;)

[Muzikman]

Hmm...yeah, if it doesn't use a Mag valve, then it's not much of a mag:). Still interested in how it works.

[Miltonyz]

Sounds like a great idea to me. Keeping the compact single tube design of the mag, without having to worry about getting on the field due to bounce/hybrid mode. The valve is claimed to be lighter which is good. Seems like a definite upgrade.

[Lessthanusual]

Would you be able to use a e-mag trigger frame with that mq-valve?

Less.

[GT]

hhhmmmmm......... neat

[Goldie D Pimp]

Would you be able to use a e-mag trigger frame with that mq-valve?

Less.


I'm thinking that a production model won't look like that.

I believe this is a prototype and they made it from mag parts instead of having to build an entire gun.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Wow, PBX is great. That is just amazingly nice. I guess you couild call it the Agg mag, it looks like it's only 2/3 of a real 'Mag. I was disappointed when I sold my cocker and couldnt get your frame, but now that has all changed. You guys are awesome.

[Bonx0007]

rogue, stop bothering people with irrelevant questions. the mag is looking Sweet man! pretty much what i expected. cant wait til its out....hopefully soon...

btw nice shirt :p

--edit can u take "agg" out of the name ? :rolleyes:

:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
I was wondering the same thing rogue was and I am glad he asked. Anyway, the new design looks close to what a mag looks like. I suppose a video will show exactly how different they really are.;)

[OysterBoy]

Remember, reading is fun.

They used mag parts because they were readily available, instead of fabricating a new body right away. This is, as he posted (As I READ ;) ), an Alpha Proto.

I'm full of mixed emotions. Its great, but, may prove to be competition for the hAir trigger; people like what they are used to, so its possible E-Cocker conversions (People, not guns) may run the other way... :tard:

[Dayspring]

The question is why? You don't need the big battery any more. And since we don't need the sear assembly, you don't need the plunger assembly. A hyperframe would do well enough.


Would you be able to use a e-mag trigger frame with that mq-valve?

Less.

[PBX Ronin 23]

At fist loom i was like SWEET! but after reading and stuff it said it doesnt use a mag valve and pretty much anything else that makes a mag a mag beside the body and rail. Its a sweet idea but its just not a mag.
You're right. I'm not even sure whether we should call it an "upgrade" or a "modification" (I'm open to any other suggestions). My thoughts are that it may be an impetus to many younger players out there to start off with a Mag because of this mechanical attributes and have an electronic option for them to look forward to in the future.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Would you be able to use a e-mag trigger frame with that mq-valve?
I'm sure it co9uld be configured to do so. It's just a matter of changing wiring connections.

But it's more intended for people going from a mech Mag to an electronic option.

[FragTek]

Thats awesome! It would be even more so if you could get the Eblades eyes to work witht he mag :headbang: :shooting:

It'd be uber AGG if you could rig up some breakbeams... The E-Blade eye is junk to the 10th power.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Don't worry, PBX will be coming out with a lot of pleasant surprises in the near future. I'm hopeful though that we can positively impact those who have helped us in the past with whatever it is that we do in the future.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Don't worry, PBX will be coming out with a lot of pleasant surprises in the near future. I'm hopeful though that we can positively impact those who have helped us in the past with whatever it is that we do in the future.

The Village loves you. Is the Cp reg required for this? In the past, all secondary regs have just decreased flow, and were not good for the valve's operation. But now I see a CP reg, and I'm think another reg may be needed. Is this true? I know it's only the Alpha stage, so I dont think you know this all yet.

Oh yea, I'm guessing you would use your frame( or of similar design) that you use on your cockers?


Andrew

[penguinpunk555]

It is better then a mag...

[PBX Ronin 23]

The Village loves you. Is the Cp reg required for this? In the past, all secondary regs have just decreased flow, and were not good for the valve's operation. But now I see a CP reg, and I'm think another reg may be needed. Is this true? I know it's only the Alpha stage, so I dont think you know this all yet.

Oh yea, I'm guessing you would use your frame( or of similar design) that you use on your cockers?
Thanks for your very kind words Andrew. For this particular proto, the in-line was needed but variations of the mQ-Valves will have different air input requirements. We don't necessarily need an in-line reg. It all depends on which model........;)

We've obviously leaned towards the Timmy style trigger in our Cocker E-Kits because it gave the end users more ergonomic choices with the myriad of after-market Timmy triggers available. Plus it was the trigger of choice in our surveys.


It is better then a mag...
This depends on your perspective, I guess. But only time can tell.

[nicad]

Any word on efficiency ... IE- in^3*LB used per shot? Input pressure @ FPS (how deep into the tank can it go).

Thanks-
Colin

[PBX Ronin 23]

Any word on efficiency ... IE- in^3*LB used per shot? Input pressure @ FPS (how deep into the tank can it go).

Thanks-
ColinI may not be the best person to respond to this query if you're looking for mathematical equations but I'll try my best.

At the current moment we're using a Level 7 bolt with a short (stock) spring. We recognized the fact that we can certainly go to a lighter bolt and spring combo and still get the requisite return speed to cycle the gun at high speeds.

We can control the dwell time to 0.25ms which would give us a great deal of tuneability to find the perfect spot.

I was trying to find a post made by mquinn96 in our PBX Cocker thread in PBN that goes to answer this same exact question on a more technical footing.

At the very least it should match or surpass the Level 7's efficiency numbers.

BTW, in a totally tangential direction, this valve would look awesome with one of your bodies. I certainly wouldn't mind putting one together for myself Colin.....(hint;))

[Beemer]

rogue, stop bothering people with irrelevant questions.



Hopefully you were kidding. Dayspring suggested I post these questions.

Theres always Hope, but I didnt think he was. He cant spell irrelavant so he might not know
what it means.

Any way good relevant questions, now I dont have to ask some of them. Thanks for the answers to

[Lohman446]

Wonderful idea, mag or no. Face it, when looking for compact (read single tube) markers, theres not a whole lot out there. This is a great idea, would love to see the final variant

[PBX Ronin 23]

Everyone should feel free to ask any questions that's pertinent to the thread subject. We'll try to answer them as much as we can unless business and legal issues will preclude us from doing so. ;)

[ZEROorDIE]

hehehe just throw a sammi trigger on that beast and.....WOOOOOOWWW :bounce: :shooting: :wow:

[PBX Ronin 23]

If we're going to do it, our frame would incorporate a Timmy style trigger.

[tony3]

Sweet, timmy triggers are my favorite. This gun looks to be promising good things. Any vids?

[slade]

do you have a website with all of your upgrades/mods? and also, i was thinking that it would be nice if you made a slug style valve that could be milled by colin along with the slug body to match the karta or dalara body.

*edit* oh yeah, and will this have any mechanical anti-chop features?

[mquinn96]

We do not yet have video. We will continue tuning this gun over the next several weeks. The air efficiency runs similar to that of a level 7 mag since we are using a level 7 bolt and equivalent power tube. We just got a super bolt and might or might not make our own delrin bolt. Since there is no sear we can make the bolt without the steel rim, lighten it a whole lot and throw on a *much* lighter return spring. Once it is running more like a sweet sweet x-mag we will be willing to show it off. For those who have seen the PBX cocker you know where we want to bring a marker before we call it complete.

[danoxide]

ok biggest question i have and ive seen it asked 3 times so far and never get answered....when is this comeing out/is there a preorder list?




other then that get some beem breaks and wow....awsome gun....



:cheers:

[Dayspring]

The website with all the mQ-Valve info is being worked on. (Being away from the computer it's being stored on is slowing the process.) Once it is finished with all the pertinent information, I'll post the URL. Until then, watch this thread or the ones in PBNation's Electronic Cocker section.

[Dayspring]

Think of this as a concept car. We now know we can do it. So no real steps toward a production run of them is in the works yet. The PBX cocker (in all its incarnations) is our first priority.


ok biggest question i have and ive seen it asked 3 times so far and never get answered....when is this comeing out/is there a preorder list?




other then that get some beem breaks and wow....awsome gun....



:cheers:

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Everything looks great so far. I noticed ya said your gonna prob use timmy frames if ya put it into production, that is an awesome idea. Although i thought this was kinda an odd idea at forst i kinda like it now. The biggest question i have is what are ya gonna call it. It wouldnt be right to call it a mag and stuff because its a totally new gun. I think itd be cool to hear some suggestions on names for it. Depending on cost if it comes out i may have to pic one of those beasts up. Keep up the good work.

[danoxide]

any idea on the price range?



:cheers:

[warbeak2099]

Ok, I don't know if this has been answered yet but I still don't quite understand the mQ-valve. If there's no sear how does it work? How could you make a blowforward electropneumatic? My mind is hitting a concrete wall lol, if it seems obvious to other people I'm very sorry. I just want to know how this thing is different in operation than a mag. I mean, it seems to me they just made their own aftermarket mag valve since it still uses a mag bolt and powertube and everything. I know it's something completely different, but how? How does it work? A schematic would be so awesome.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

How much machining did this take?
Also, do you do your machining at your field? I saw what looked like a drill press and maybe some other stuff, j/w.
Was the rail modified at all?

[Ratzo]

Ok, I don't know if this has been answered yet but I still don't quite understand the mQ-valve. If there's no sear how does it work? How could you make a blowforward electropneumatic? My mind is hitting a concrete wall lol, if it seems obvious to other people I'm very sorry. I just want to know how this thing is different in operation than a mag. I mean, it seems to me they just made their own aftermarket mag valve since it still uses a mag bolt and powertube and everything. I know it's something completely different, but how? How does it work? A schematic would be so awesome.
I would assume that the valve is controled by the electronics, so instead of tripping the sear it removes this process, and just opens the on/off.

[AGDlover]

are we looking a LP cocker-mag now???

[MaChu]

I bet you it works just the same as a ICD Freestyle, except it looks a whole lot better than a Freestyle! If someone can pull up a Freestyle working animation, I bet it works nearly exactly the same, just the main air passages are routed different.

[Athius]

Finally a f'n new design of the automag goddammit!!!!!!!! Too bad AGD isn't making it. Pretty ironic huh?

Well this is not a mag but this is the evolution of the mag.

With that mag i think people will think "hAir trigger who???"

[Breck]

What type of barrel is that?

[mquinn96]

We had to machine 6 parts to make the new valve. No rail modification was needed.
The gun does NOT work like a Freestyle. That gun uses air to keep the bolt back. The bolt pin sits against a seal at the back of the power tube. They then use a 3-way valve to dump air out from in front of the bolt to allow it to fire.
The Q-mag works much more like a traditional mag with a spring pushing the bolt back.
The on/off and sear are replaced by the new valve mechanism.
We did the machining in our lab located off-site from the field.

[Duck Hunt]

I don't know much about pnuematics and such, but correct me if I'm wrong...

The Mag valve already can cycle as fast as any gun out there. And its already been proven that it can take ALOT more pressure than any other valve around. But too me the idea of putting an Eblade on a mag seems pointless. The way I see it all you'd have to do it connect the solenoid to the sear and it would do that same thing, just the the EMag and XMag and Hyperframe etc. Why do it any other way?

Sean

[Skoad]

sounds awesome.

Would really love to see a video of it. I'll be waiting ;)

[mquinn96]

I don't know much about pnuematics and such, but correct me if I'm wrong...

The Mag valve already can cycle as fast as any gun out there. And its already been proven that it can take ALOT more pressure than any other valve around. But too me the idea of putting an Eblade on a mag seems pointless. The way I see it all you'd have to do it connect the solenoid to the sear and it would do that same thing, just the the EMag and XMag and Hyperframe etc. Why do it any other way?

Sean
We only used the e-blade frame because it was available. We did not use the sear from it since this valve does not use a sear.

[Lessthanusual]

Yes, I know the big battery won't be there (and I would be very happy about this). More to the point, I was wondering if you could fit the board you're using into the mag grip along with the battery, (and any other parts) Another idea could be using the empty space to hold an ACE for instance. Or, completely removing the battery housing and milling a new hollow grip.


The question is why? You don't need the big battery any more. And since we don't need the sear assembly, you don't need the plunger assembly. A hyperframe would do well enough.

I for one would be interested in seeing one that could fit in the emag trigger frame and RT type rail.


I'm sure it co9uld be configured to do so. It's just a matter of changing wiring connections.

But it's more intended for people going from a mech Mag to an electronic option.

Less.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Ok, I don't know if this has been answered yet but I still don't quite understand the mQ-valve. If there's no sear how does it work? How could you make a blowforward electropneumatic? My mind is hitting a concrete wall lol, if it seems obvious to other people I'm very sorry. I just want to know how this thing is different in operation than a mag. I mean, it seems to me they just made their own aftermarket mag valve since it still uses a mag bolt and powertube and everything. I know it's something completely different, but how? How does it work? A schematic would be so awesome.The mQ-Valve is a new technology that PBX will be releasing at World Cup. The initial run will be platformed on the venerable Autococker. In the Cocker, it rplaces the Nelson-style poppet vavle, hammer, sear, lug, IVG and springs. It is electronically activated so when you're trying to 'sweet spot' a cocker, you can "super sweet stop" it in 0.25ms increments. The Lock TIme is 3-4ms compared to other electros that are at 10-15ms. It's cyclic speed potential is considerably higher that ANYTHING else out there. We were able to get 36bps out of the Cocker and the only limiting factor being the loader. WE KNOW WE CAN EASILY GO HIGHER THAN ANYTHING ELSE OUT THERE.

We have platformed this thing on other types of guns. The "agg Mag" being the linear/single tube version that we know we can put in practically anything including spool valved guns. We've also proven that it can be put into a stacked bolt blow-back body and instantly turns it into a Muppet Moving Machine (MMM).
are we looking a LP cocker-mag now???We can, if we wanted to. We can also configure the design to withstand higher pressures as to not require an in-line reg.

There's lots of options available to us when it comes to designing with this valve.
I bet you it works just the same as a ICD Freestyle, except it looks a whole lot better than a Freestyle! If someone can pull up a Freestyle working animation, I bet it works nearly exactly the same, just the main air passages are routed different.Absolutely NOT.

What type of barrel is that?One of the original old-school minicocker stock barrels.

I don't know much about pnuematics and such, but correct me if I'm wrong...

The Mag valve already can cycle as fast as any gun out there. And its already been proven that it can take ALOT more pressure than any other valve around. But too me the idea of putting an Eblade on a mag seems pointless. The way I see it all you'd have to do it connect the solenoid to the sear and it would do that same thing, just the the EMag and XMag and Hyperframe etc. Why do it any other way?
If it's just the valve, I believe we can go 120cps. In practical execution that goes significantly lower because of all the other components that is needed to fire a ball.

It takes less energy to fire the gun with the mQ-Valve. It is significantly lighter. It is more forgiving in terms of manufacturing tolerances. There are no mechnical interface that will wear down after awhile. These are some of the advantages.

Like in anything else, one man's "pointless" endeavor is another man's breakthrough accomplishment. It all depends on your perspective.

It works and as an intellectual property, it's protected. It is our hope that this new valve represents a breakthrough in gun design technology that will positively impact paintball as a sport and as an industry.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

We have platformed this thing on other types of guns. The "agg Mag" being the linear/single tube version that we know we can put in practically anything including spool valved guns. We've also proven that it can be put into a stacked bolt blow-back body and instantly turns it into a Muppet Moving Machine (MMM).

It is our hope that this new valve represents a breakthrough in gun design technology that will positively impact paintball as a sport and as an industry.

How do you do it!? When I heard about you opening a field, I thought " Ok great, another field, can't wait" but never did I expect this much out of you guys.

So the mQ can be fitted to almost any electro-pnuematic then? That's one versital valve...


Andrew

[AGDlover]

so whats the out put preasure are we looking at when a finished product is made?

[PBX Ronin 23]

so whats the out put preasure are we looking at when a finished product is made?Each gun that the valve is platformed on will vary. We're looking at keeping the pressure for Mag users at the level that they're accustomed to.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Each gun that the valve is platformed on will vary. We're looking at keeping the pressure for Mag users at the level that they're accustomed to.

Keeping it high pressure like normal mags is cool but please try and get it to have better efficiency. Even if that means making it LP please try it.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Efficiency is definitely high on my list of attributes that this potential product must have. We can definitely lighten the bolt and the springs and keep the dwell time extremely short.

We'll try to share as much info with you guys as possible and hopefully we can get good constructive feedbacks from you. Everything PBX Ballistix Lab does is done for the players by players.

[the electrician]

very interesting indeed.

good to see another idea/application.
I always like to see another option to whats out there already.

now, one discrepancy I read was that "a spring keeps the bolt back, like in a regular mag"

in reality, the sping only returns the bolt. the sear actually holds the bolt in place. now I'm not really trying to bust your chops on this, I'm just trying to understand. seems like the chamber of air is not pushing on the bolt? perhaps the Mq valve does not apply air to the bolt until it is ready to fire? then , since the Mq valve is controlled by a solenoid(or solenoid valve) the dwell time is controlled?

basically I'm just trying to draw some info out of you :)

you know the deal, most people just want to shoot it. I want to take it apart first ;)

[PBX Ronin 23]

The spring holds the bolt back but it doesn't need to help seal anything. The sealing is done by the mQ-Valve. There is no longer a need for the sear in this application.

We had to basically use a Level 7 bolt and stock springs for expediency. I wish I knew that we had a Super Bolt somewhere in the shop.

Basically, when the gun is fired, air is released by the mQ-V to propel the bolt forward. Then it releases the air and then it closes. Being that it doesn't have to fight against any residual air that's still in the power tube assembly, the bolt meets with no resistance when returning into the open position. On its return back to its original position, air is vented as to prevent any kind of 'dead-heading'. Ergo, the spring is all it uses to hold the bolt back. The trick then is finding the right spring that would be as light as possible and still return the bolt fast enough.

The cool thing about this is the ability to control and fine tune the gun in ways that's never been done before..........and that's the really amazing part about it.

[the electrician]

that is interesting, and cool.
I kind of thought that was what was going on. so the Mq valve must have a fairly high flow rate? it can discharge enough air to shoot the ball in a decent amount of time I take it?what kind of times are we talking? at first , the bolt must be moving fairly slow, but accelerating quickly. this could be an advantage as far as not chopping paint. perhaps the Mq valve is open all the way to the point where the bolt lets air out to the ball, then it closes?

I've been working on the efficiency of the mag design myself. so far, so good. I've been able to get the operating pressure down to about 280, without increase the dump chamber size. but it's a work in progress. don't know how much lower I can go... perhaps 220?

the thing I don't like about springs, is that they are always a constant. a constant opposing force. it's really not needed. force is only needed to return the bolt. but the spring is very simple, and very cheap.

these are definitely my favorite kind of threads.

[dyeguy65]

alright! im about ready to sell my soul to see a diagram of the mQ valve...everywhere they post this, they dont have it yet. seriously, dont tease us until you have something for us to drool ON. :p

-DG

[WenULiVeUdiE]

[QUOTE=dyeguy65]alright! im about ready to sell my soul to see a diagram of the mQ valve...everywhere they post this, they dont have it yet. seriously, dont tease us until you have something for us to drool ON[QUOTE]

If they did that, then you could take the design and patent it. Once they get the patent stuff figured out and they release the valve itself, they will release schematics.

[shadowfalcon78]

so say this would go into production, all u need is the frame, valve and reg right? i can't wait until it's released. eblade trigger feels soooooo much nicer than emag trigger to me

[Dayspring]

Correctamundo. :)


If they did that, then you could take the design and patent it. Once they get the patent stuff figured out and they release the valve itself, they will release schematics.

[PBX Ronin 23]

alright! im about ready to sell my soul to see a diagram of the mQ valve...everywhere they post this, they dont have it yet. seriously, dont tease us until you have something for us to drool ON. :p
Sell your soul? No need. All you gotta do is buy me a beer. :cheers:

[stip]

It's very interresting to see some upgrade 'around Mags'. Hope this upgrade will be at the same level of quality that the AGD's products ?!? Maybe a better spread in Europe ?

But definitly too bad that you don't use THE Mag Valve (Xvalve). Tom is right when he write : " if it doesnt use the mag valve how is it a mag ".
Finaly, what 'MAKE the Mag' -> his valve, not his shape. No ?


L8r

[warpedside671]

I'm totally diggin this mod ..The more options mag owners have the better .

[PBX Ronin 23]

I have spoken to 'someone' about making this valve as compatible with existing 'Mag parts as possible. Even using an existing Intelliframe to accomodate the battery and board. Every facet of the Mag is being examined at the current moment.

Just stay tuned. If we can do an electro kit that just involves the new valve and a board that can be a retrofit, then that represents some major savings for the players.

Stay tuned.

[cphilip]

Berry berry interesting Mel..... I gotta get a peak inside that thing... :ninja:

[JimmyBeam]

im very interested. i would like to have a emag, but i just am turned off from them becasue of that big battery housing

[PBX Ronin 23]

im very interested. i would like to have a emag, but i just am turned off from them becasue of that big battery housingThe mQ-Valve uses a 9volt and we know that we can basically fit everything within the confines of a 45 frame. That be said, there's still a number of technical challenges ahead.....but how much fun would life be if there weren't any challenges to overcome. ;)

[boggerman]

I totally agree, the challenge of creating something unique is very cool. Don't listen to the people saying it's not "Mag" enough, who cares? Coming up with your own ideas using some pre-existing parts from here and there makes perfect sense, especially at the prototype stage. Like several others have stated, I will be waiting not-so-patiently for video of this thing in action. :cool: :cool: :cool:

P.S., what is a Muppet Moving Machine???

[SoccerPaintball3]

one of the sweetest mags i have ever seen

[Athius]

Which is the web page of PBX Ballistics???


With this mQ valve i think the hAir trigger is goin to hell.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

If the hair trigger even comes out a doubt it will "go to hell" as you put it. Thsi new gun/design has its ups and its downs. For one its not really a mag which may make people turn away from it but on the other hand efficiency will be increased as well as speed. I think this will prob sell better if it comes out but i dont think the hair frame will suffer if it comes out cus there prob wont be a ton of hair trigger frames made.

[Vendetta]

The thing I like abot this one is that unlike the PBXCocker, there is no moving bolt-thingy near your face. That was very distracting to me when I shot it. :shooting:

Hmm, I wonder if you can retrofit my SI Bushmaster or Phantom with a mQvalve? That would be awesome!

[Thordic]

Which is the web page of PBX Ballistics???


With this mQ valve i think the hAir trigger is goin to hell.

Uhm, doubtful. The whole point was that the hAir is totally mechanical.

[Dayspring]

The website is being worked on. When it's finished, we will post the URL.


Which is the web page of PBX Ballistics???


With this mQ valve i think the hAir trigger is goin to hell.

[PBX Ronin 23]

The thing I like abot this one is that unlike the PBXCocker, there is no moving bolt-thingy near your face. That was very distracting to me when I shot it. :shooting:

Hmm, I wonder if you can retrofit my SI Bushmaster or Phantom with a mQvalve? That would be awesome!I'm not sure which rendition of the PBX Cocker you had a chance to shoot but the one we're producing has no back block to hit you in the face with. All the external moving parts are from the grip frame forward. As for your pumps with an mQ.....that's sick and very possible. You now have forced me to look at my Phantom on the office wall and thinking about converting that..........you're a bad influence. :rofl:
Uhm, doubtful. The whole point was that the hAir is totally mechanical.The hAir Trigger is definitely a designing feat........no doubt. I certainly wouldn't mind having one. The PBX Mod is a totally different concept that's worthy based purely on its merit. Both can certainly have it's place in a 'Mag shooter's heart. :)

[RRfireblade]

I have a tech Q in regards to the mQ but I'm concerned about asking it in an open Forum as there's the possibilty that the question alone may offer more info than PBX might want to release. (Or me for that matter. :) )

LMK, if you'd rather I asked it in PMs.

Thanks,

Jay.

[PBX Ronin 23]

If I can't/won't answer a question here.........I probably won't answer the same question privately. ;)

[slade]

do you have a website with all of your upgrades/mods? and also, i was thinking that it would be nice if you made a slug style valve that could be milled by colin along with the slug body to match the karta or dalara body.

*edit* oh yeah, and will this have any mechanical anti-chop features?
*ahem* anyone want to answer that question?

[PBX Ronin 23]

The website is being worked on right now. We were trying to get it up to coincide with World Cup but the onslaught of questions coming in now may dictate that we do this sooner. We're on it.

As for whether or not it will have a mechnical anti-chop system, well let's just say that we're taking a look at all the possibilities.

I see no reason why this can't be put into one of Colins bodies or any other slug body out there. It would look extremely sexy wouldn't it.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

He already stated the website is being developed. I guess you were refferring to the other one?

Edit- Mel beat me to it.

[RenagadeOfFunk]

whoa, somebody actually got an eblade on a mag.


...minimag jim was telling me a kid at shatner ball asked for an e-blade at the AGD stand...

...and they laughed...


...look who is laughing NOW!....(everyone) :rolleyes:

[AclowN]

someone posted that this would have people thinking "hAir who?" why would this happen? is this marker 100% non electronic?

thats my only question, but from the looks of it its an electro frame on that thing, eblade, timmy, whatever they intend to be used... still electro..... so how will this in ANY way effect the hAir, those who want a non electro that pulls just like an electro will buy that anyway, why would they not? this thing seems like a very nice design, but it has little or nothing to do with the hAir from what i am seeing.


that said, this marker looks real nice, what operation pressure does it run at? said like a mag with lvl 7 bolt, so assuming similar operation pressure as a regular mag?

[nicad]

...

I see no reason why this can't be put into one of Colins bodies or any other slug body out there. It would look extremely sexy wouldn't it.

/me waits for my sample mQ valve in the mail to get my design guy working on.
oh, you wanted me to mill one without having one?? hahahah
:p

out!

[slade]

I see no reason why this can't be put into one of Colins bodies or any other slug body out there. It would look extremely sexy wouldn't it.
i was talking about having extra aluminum on the valve, so that it could be milled along with a slug body by nicad, not asking if it was compatible. having the valve and body milled together would be sweet.

[pump]

ok so the Mq-valve is a new valve different fron Sherdian and nelson valves
and also different fron the AGD on off?

controlls the flow of air?
but at a faster rate than other valves?
needs less force to open?
and can replace sherdian, AGD's on off and nelson valves?

egads!! i was just happy to see an eblade on a mag

[Scott Hudnall]

Looks very cool.

Looks like a 'mag.
Sound like a 'mag?

What's the "ball park" time frame for release?

If you cold fit the electronics into the intelliframe and make the valve a drop-in mod, would be very cool.

[HateMachine]

Mad props to your design but in on of your posts you said "Maybe we can now revive the age-old battle of the titans........Mags vs. Cockers" best idea ever i don't like the way the debate has pacified over the years i want the competition back with avengence, i want heated rivalries back on the fields of paintball!

[PBX Ronin 23]

that said, this marker looks real nice, what operation pressure does it run at? said like a mag with lvl 7 bolt, so assuming similar operation pressure as a regular mag?We ran the proto at around 350-400psi but the fact of the matter is, we want to run this thing closer to the actual pressures that Mags run with. We'll see where it takes us.
/me waits for my sample mQ valve in the mail to get my design guy working on.
oh, you wanted me to mill one without having one?? hahahah
:p

out!Quid pro quo, homey..........;)
i was talking about having extra aluminum on the valve, so that it could be milled along with a slug body by nicad, not asking if it was compatible. having the valve and body milled together would be sweet.A definite possibility.
What's the "ball park" time frame for release?

If you cold fit the electronics into the intelliframe and make the valve a drop-in mod, would be very cool.Hopefully before 2005. As far as retrofits, I think that if we can save the players some money, that's a good thing. We're looking at all possibilities.

[temps]

I think I know the answer already but...

this upgrade would involve switching the mag valve out for the mQvalve and a new trigger frame... So really this isn't a "mag" since the mag valve is gone right??

Also would you say the mQvalve is an upgraded mag valve or a newly desinged valve??

Anyway.. if this thing preforms as good as you say it does well... All I can say is.. :dance:

[mquinn96]

The valve is completely re-designed and as such is not an AGD valve nor is it an upgrade on the AGD design.
However, it accomplishes the same thing as the AGD valve.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Gotta love that cane! Stolen from an expression created by an ex-team member......"let's go "cane" some bitc......" lol

[Dayspring]

FYI- we're starting to get the new site up and running. The forums are up and if you can start directing questions there, we'd appreciate it.

www.pbxbattlezone.com/forums

[PBX Ronin 23]

There's definitely a lot of meat to be milled out with the PBX mQ-Valve. Colin, I wouldn't mind some level of collaboration on this.........;).

[steveo356]

well i was thinking, that you could make your own body and make it smaller and light then the freestyle that would give more braggin rights to this gun. or it could look exaclty like a mag and be like the sleeper cars in street races that look just like a stock car but u open the hood u bind its any thing but that.

I hope people could understand that im a lil excited

(edit) furgot suthin

could this possibly be sold as a kit to transfrom your every day mech mag into elctro or is it too complicated for your everage joe to strap on.

[Dayspring]

It's a drop in upgrade. If you can change the valve out, you can handle this.

[nicad]

Ronin-

let me know what I need to do (NDA, etc) to get a valve in my hands for machining.. or a CAD layout of where can and cant be cut on it..

out!

[stip]

Deadlywind + PBX .... mhmmm..... :clap: :clap:


L8r

[PBX Ronin 23]

Ronin-

let me know what I need to do (NDA, etc) to get a valve in my hands for machining.. or a CAD layout of where can and cant be cut on it..

out!
For now, just assume that we can anno it any which way we want plus we should be able to take some meat off of it as well.

[Tunaman]

Ronin-

let me know what I need to do (NDA, etc) to get a valve in my hands for machining.. or a CAD layout of where can and cant be cut on it..

out!Hey! You gotta get in line man! And the line is MIGHTY Long! :D :mad: :D

[Chronobreak]

could you guys worth the "q-valve " into a buhsy? woul;d it perform better? :confused:

[Lurker27]

Not to be a killjoy here, but unless I'm missing something, this doesn't sound too horribly complicated. I'm guessing that the electrical solenoid in the cocker version of the Q valve is positioned where the hammer would be. The pulse pushes back against the valve stem, which is sealed via the air pressure on the cupseal. To prevent too much battery drain, a spring could be used to naturally push against the pressure of the charged air chamber. This jives with all the tech specs I've seen.

With a mag, you'd be using the same "large solenoid valve" idea to dump into the dump chamber, with no sear, so that the act of dumping actuates the valve and pushes the ball. This also seems to jive with what I've seen (no sear assembly).

Of course, the freestyle from ICD is pretty similar to a mag...A similar style retrofit is probably possible.

[Lurker27]

...If I'm right, then, it wouldn't work in a bushy, because the bolt and valve assemblies are linked, unlike a cocker. But that's just me.

[PBX Ronin 23]

could you guys worth the "q-valve " into a buhsy? woul;d it perform better? :confused:
Yes it would on a Bushy but there would be modification done to the gun that would be considered "custom" and as such, isn't a drop-in.


Not to be a killjoy here, but unless I'm missing something, this doesn't sound too horribly complicated. I'm guessing that the electrical solenoid in the cocker version of the Q valve is positioned where the hammer would be. The pulse pushes back against the valve stem, which is sealed via the air pressure on the cupseal. To prevent too much battery drain, a spring could be used to naturally push against the pressure of the charged air chamber. This jives with all the tech specs I've seen.

With a mag, you'd be using the same "large solenoid valve" idea to dump into the dump chamber, with no sear, so that the act of dumping actuates the valve and pushes the ball. This also seems to jive with what I've seen (no sear assembly).

Of course, the freestyle from ICD is pretty similar to a mag...A similar style retrofit is probably possible.Your guess is a little off but you are close to the gist of the valve's working principles. ;)

The only thing with the Freestyle is that it still needs an off-the-shelf 'noid to actuate a mechanism in order to dump the air. The mQ-Valve doesn't.

[lunatickyle007]

It not an automag anymore it's something else.

[PBX Ronin 23]

It not an automag anymore it's something else.Right you are. It's another option that hopefully would lead to players buying Mags now that there's a viavle electro mod soon to be available.

[OldSchoolVM68]

I think its awesome. Looks like a mag, if you tell people its a mag there going to belive it.(IMO thats most of it) And maby they can work with AGD to get a new electronic mag out there.

[Athius]

We all want to see a video of the mq-valve mag in action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! :D

[OldSchoolVM68]

It not an automag anymore it's something else.

So is a mag still a mag with an X-valve and hyperframe (or hair)? What if agd didnt maket he x-valve would all of you x-valve guns not be considered mags? Be optomistic, maby this design is superior to the AIR or RT valve system. I think its awesome hes trying to get a mag like gun back on top here. The majority of you say its not a mag because of the valve just because AGD didnt make it. Then all of you need to start looking down on the Hair, its not made by AGD or his work.

[slade]

Hey! You gotta get in line man! And the line is MIGHTY Long! :D :mad: :D
well nicad is going to mill it... what are you going to do with it? (not doubting you tuna, just asking!)

[danheneise]

well nicad is going to mill it... what are you going to do with it? (not doubting you tuna, just asking!)

he could put a purdy design on it and package it on a new marker with some nice tunamag parts :headbang:

[PBX Ronin 23]

:cheers:

[Mad_Man]

Alright, I have a few questions about this valve.

First off, can it be used with co2 and to what effect?

Also, is there any update on the possibility of packaging this valve with a board and trigger, as "drop into" the intelliframe?

Thanks,
Don

[Southparkrocks]

God it'd look so cool with a rpg 90* chimera frame and a logic alpha rail.

[player4]

price.................

[WenULiVeUdiE]

PBX( Mel) and crew are at the Cup now. They are releasing their PBX cocker.

[player4]

What will the price be for the automag version?

[punkncat]

Maybe a bit late in on this conversation...

Just reading over some of the working details.

What makes this anything other that a bastardized BKO operationally? Pneu operated forward stroke w/ spring return.......

[Dayspring]

Right now it's just a working concept. The focus at the exact moment is the cocker version of the valve.

No price is set as there's only the prototype.


What will the price be for the automag version?

[adt501]

i think idea is awesome. that would be great if pbx could start building these quickly.

some people might be saying its not a mag, and maybe its not anymore

isnt tom always saying nowadays that he wants to do something different? he wants a new concept, a new name for his guns? maybe this could be it.

i have a question though. im sure its been answered already in this long thread, and i havent been able to read all of it, but how easy would it be to maintain this gun? i know they are only in the proto stage.

[Dayspring]

Same as any mag.

[aLLerGy]

Soooooooo any new info? :D

Had to ask!

[captian pinky]

can we get avideo up please i would love to see this mag in action so please post a video

[Dayspring]

Guys, our focus right now is the cocker version of this. The picture you see is more of a proof of concept. Meaning "We can do it." It doesn't mean that we're doing it just yet.

Patience...

[slade]

Guys, our focus right now is the cocker version of this. The picture you see is more of a proof of concept. Meaning "We can do it." It doesn't mean that we're doing it just yet.
so basically you taunt us with pictures of a great new product, but then say that youre going to put it off for a while to work on something else, then come back to continue working on it. thanks. ;)

oh well, i guess itl be worth the wait...

[PBX Ronin 23]

so basically you taunt us with pictures of a great new product, but then say that youre going to put it off for a while to work on something else, then come back to continue working on it. thanks. ;)
Actually we're working on this heavily now. We want to see this thing out there in the spring rippin' the heads off slow moving muppets.;)

I firmly believe that once you hook this up to your gun, you'll realize that it was definitely worth the wait.

[Pain For Pleasure]

Are there any estimates of price? For the Cocker or Mag etc. version. Would this be in a competing price zone for the hAir or p-blade? Just an "Over $X" is enough for me. Thanks. (sorry if this has been asked before. I skimmed the whole thread and didn't see it mentioned.)

[PBX Ronin 23]

Are there any estimates of price? For the Cocker or Mag etc. version. Would this be in a competing price zone for the hAir or p-blade? Just an "Over $X" is enough for me. Thanks. (sorry if this has been asked before. I skimmed the whole thread and didn't see it mentioned.)
If I was to qoute you a number now, I'd be pulling it out of an orifice that you would probably not want to hear about.

Needless to say, I believe that for a product to succeed in the marketplace, it has to give the consumer a lot of bang for the buck......enough said.

[pump]

Pump Version!!!!!!!!

[Furby#1]

Ronin
Where do i go to preorder for this thing. want one for my race half block.

[Dayspring]

PM him here or on PBN or our own forums-

www.pbxbattlezone.com/forums

[Magglerock]

Actually we're working on this heavily now. We want to see this thing out there in the spring rippin' the heads off slow moving muppets.;)

I firmly believe that once you hook this up to your gun, you'll realize that it was definitely worth the wait.

Gentlemen, you will single-handidly save the mag from extinction. I thank you in advance, and eagerly await its arrival. A new era is about to begin for the mag.

[Automaggin2]

Is there a possibility of PBX developing there on electric frame conversion instead of using an eBlade? Using an eBlade as part of a converion would be very expensive. Factor in the cost of an eblade plus the cost of conversion+new valve, you have to be looking a very high price. Is the board in the eBlade the stock board or was it reworked by PBX?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I think they'd use the same frame they use on their cocker.

[Head knight of Ni]

Gentlemen, you will single-handidly save the mag from extinction. I thank you in advance, and eagerly await its arrival. A new era is about to begin for the mag.


That's not a 'Mag. It's the AGG 'Mag a different marker. The hAir and other super mech' frames possibly for 'Mags will revive the 'Mag.

[PBX Ronin 23]

What makes the 'Mag a Mag is the use of AGD's numerous valves. Pbx has done is incorporating our new proprietary technology and platformed it on a "Mag-spec'ed" gun.

It eventually, we hope, be an easy drop in for Mag users and turn their guns into an efficient high-speed electro. If you're looking at the segment of the market that are going to be buying guns for the first time (or after their inevitable run-in with problems shooting stacked-bolt blow-backs from Walmart) and are seriously considering quality construction and durability as important, then invariably they'll look at the Mag as an option.

Having an upgrade path with the introduction of the super-mech triggers and the PBX conversion will hopefully sway them into their first Mag.

[spasticsquirrel]

do you think there will be a trade in form X-valves to this upgrade.

Also since this doesn't use a tom kaye approved valve for automags, and does not operate the same as a mag, what should we call it?

[slade]

do you think there will be a trade in form X-valves to this upgrade.

Also since this doesn't use a tom kaye approved valve for automags, and does not operate the same as a mag, what should we call it?
um, no.

the whole reason for the trade in was to get classic valves out of circulation, so that AGD would have to maintain them. that is not an issue because they are a different company and does not have to service xvalves, and even if they were, xvalves are relatively new, so why would they want them out of circulation? and since the valve essentially is the gun in a mag, and this does not use a mag valve or frame, the only mag parts are the rail and body, so as they said this will most likely be a whole new gun, the prototype was just built off of mag parts for simplicity.

btw i love your name... spastic squirrel... :rolleyes: thats just awesome.

[JoshK]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet (i havnt seen it)...so this is going to be available for cockers too? If so, what parts does it replace(so i can sell them to make some money to buy it :D). And is it a drop in? (when i say drop in i mean replace parts and stuf...just not have to do any modification to attach it. just trying to make that question clear) And plus i know you said no price...but you seriously have absolutly no price? No range? What kind of power is this going to go off of? AND WHERE IS OUR VIDEO!!!! ;)


P.S. Whats pbx's website url?

[Dayspring]

Yes it is shortly available for the cocker.

www.pbxbattlezone.com/forums

[JoshK]

do you have any answers to the other questions? or could you point them out to me if they have been answered?


EDIT: I have found alot of questions answered on their forums...but still...is there a autococker video?

[Dayspring]

Try in the Movies/Videos section on the forums...

[JoshK]

Ok thanx again...how fast is that thing shooting on full auto? In the vid balls are beaking...are they like hitting each other? I don't know...it just looks awesome.

[spasticsquirrel]

I am sooooooooo getting this!

Now its saving up time... i wish paintball was one of those less expensicve sports, like, kick the can, and all those other old school sports.

[Dayspring]

The full auto tests are at 31+bps. They were soundgraphed by White Wolf Airsmithing.

[JoshK]

Amazing...waaaannnnntttt onnnnneeee soooooo badddd!!!! MUUUUSTTTT REEESSSISSSST...

[spasticsquirrel]

how much beer will this cost?

[Mad_Man]

Is there any progress on making a run of mq-valves compatible with mags?

Also, there was a possibilty of packaging it as a kit to convert an intelliframe,
is there any word on this?

Any idea of a date when these will become available after the pre-orders
have been filled?

Thanks, Don

[Dayspring]

We're trying to get the cocker version out right now. When more info on the mag version is ready, we'll post up.

[NJPaint]

I hate you PBX :( Now I have to save for two guns, was already expecting the PBX Cocker, but now this... Argh.... ps. can I touch it? :D :p

[Dayspring]

Not the mag. It's sitting in the R&D lab. The cocker, however, sure. I'll see what I can do about getting it to the field when you're home.

[NJPaint]

bah already shot the cocker, wanted to see the mag :p But ya, going to try to swing by.

[MindJob]

I saw the cocker at AONJ 4 and it is SWEET.

I think that this would have a much bigger impact if PBX had developed it around an entire new gun...

Just my $.02

[PBX Ronin 23]

I saw the cocker at AONJ 4 and it is SWEET.

I think that this would have a much bigger impact if PBX had developed it around an entire new gun...

Just my $.02 ;) ..You're on the money there MJ.

We're initially platforming this technology on markers that we know we can positively impact and that are widely distributed.

As for a totally new uber gun, well let's just say that we're taking a good hard look at what the players want out of their high-end gun, the level of performance that they expect and how we can make it 'bling-bling' for maximum pimp effect.

We know now after going through our analysis of every high-end guns out (you name it, we've analyzed it) there that we can beat them on SPEED, EFFICIENCY and COMPACTNESS OF DESIGN. But all this is all talk until we produce results for you guys to see.

Again, thanks for your interest and we'll be releasing info as they become available.

[NJPaint]

;) ..You're on the money there MJ.

We're initially platforming this technology on markers that we know we can positively impact and that are widely distributed.

As for a totally new uber gun, well let's just say that we're taking a good hard look at what the players want out of their high-end gun, the level of performance that they expect and how we can make it 'bling-bling' for maximum pimp effect.

We know now after going through our analysis of every high-end guns out (you name it, we've analyzed it) there that we can beat them on SPEED, EFFICIENCY and COMPACTNESS OF DESIGN. But all this is all talk until we produce results for you guys to see.

Again, thanks for your interest and we'll be releasing info as they become available.

so basically mel, you are saying that getting a PBX cocker will be a temporary fix until the PBX ultimate marker comes out...

[PBX Ronin 23]

so basically mel, you are saying that getting a PBX cocker will be a temporary fix until the PBX ultimate marker comes out...Did I say that? ;)

An mQ'ed Cocker is a reality. The PBX Uber gun is a concept still in the fantasy stage. How immediate do you want to feel the power, well that's entirely up to you.

["Joe"]

The saving begins now......

[spasticsquirrel]

Can i test this upgrade when this really super ultra awsome "thing" when it comes out, you dont have to worry about getting it back too, and ill test the quality and all that good stuff about it..

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PBX Ronin 23]

Can i test this upgrade when this really super ultra awsome "thing" when it comes out, you dont have to worry about getting it back too, and ill test the quality and all that good stuff about it..

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Sure you can. You would just have to move and live in NJ in someone's basement between the time you arrive and the time that the gun hits the stream oc commerce. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[$tevo]

damn thats awesome..good job!

are you able to put a race frame on a mag too? and if they go on sale, how much would you let the beast go for?

[Dayspring]

Don't see why we couldn't and no idea.

[spasticsquirrel]

Sure you can. You would just have to move and live in NJ in someone's basement between the time you arrive and the time that the gun hits the stream oc commerce. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Do you have a mini frig, um... Tv.... a really nice bed... what else, fitness room, swimming pool, and all that other good stuff down there?

[PBX Ronin 23]

Do you have a mini frig, um... Tv.... a really nice bed... what else, fitness room, swimming pool, and all that other good stuff down there?
LOL. Nah you won't have those but you get to check out some really cool stuff that may or may not ever make it to market.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Do you do the machining in house, or out?

Any chance you wanna hint on when and where your next Jersey field?

[Dayspring]

Both.

No.

:D

[PBX Ronin 23]

Any chance you wanna hint on when and where your next Jersey field?Unfortunately, the next field opening up is not in NJ. It'll be in NYC.

[spasticsquirrel]

snap, even closer to connecticut i beleive, and NYC is in the tristate area, right?

Then thats not a snap, its a hell yeah :shooting: :shooting: :shooting:


LOL. Nah you won't have those but you get to check out some really cool stuff that may or may not ever make it to market.

thats not good enough...

[PBX Ronin 23]

To those with ULE bodies:

Would you rather see us use a reflective eye sensor ala E Blade or would you rather see a break beam.

Our concern stems from the possible difficulty your average player might go through in the installation of a PDS.

Your comments are definitely welcome.

[robb2269]

It looks like frankenstein plus its not a mag. And I still don't understand why some of you keep asking for eyes or vision with a level X you dont need. I'm thinking of getting a E-MAG from tunaman why would I go with this over a real mag? no offense, What about the vert frame from rogue can electric be put in that with 9v?

PS nice shirt!!

[PBX Ronin 23]

This new valve is a lot more controllable, faster and more efficient than an LX Mag. It's an electro upgrade that we're planning as a drop in modification for Mag bodied guns. Furthermore, its proving to be more forgiving when it comes to aftermarket bodies and rails that don't have strict AGD tolerances. Fewer parts will also decrease the complexity of the gun.

Is it a Mag.......NO! But what it can do is give the Mag shooter a vialbe electro upgrade path that isn't currently available outside of the HyperFrame.

I accept that not everybody will do this upgrade to their Mags. In particular, the purest of the Mag purist. My last post was intended to solicit the opinion of those who may be interested in the upgrade and find out what's right for them.

At PBX we value the players opinions and our designs, for the most part, are predicated on what the players want to see.

Good luck on your Tuna Mag. Tunaman is the primo guy when it comes to custom Mags.

[650HP]

To those with ULE bodies:

Would you rather see us use a reflective eye sensor ala E Blade or would you rather see a break beam.

Our concern stems from the possible difficulty your average player might go through in the installation of a PDS.

Your comments are definitely welcome.

I tend to favor break beam eyes. I think either your shop could offer eye drilling or even many of the airsmiths on the forum could offer the installation. I wouldn't mind shipping my ULE body off to have it professionally drilled for eyes. Could your board have built in support for both reflective and break beam? Then people who don't want the break beam could still use a reflective eye or vice versa.

I am anxious for a product like this for the Mags.


It looks like frankenstein plus its not a mag.

Its a prototype. Prototypes are rarely pretty. How is it not a mag? Because it doesn't have a AIR valve? So a Matrix with an Evolve bolt kit and a CP reg isn't a Matrix? It would still look and feel like a Mag.

[PBX Ronin 23]

I tend to favor break beam eyes. I think either your shop could offer eye drilling or even many of the airsmiths on the forum could offer the installation. I wouldn't mind shipping my ULE body off to have it professionally drilled for eyes. Could your board have built in support for both reflective and break beam? Then people who don't want the break beam could still use a reflective eye or vice versa.

The board certainly can. We've been designing them now (and will be in the future) to accept both types of eyes. But what I'd like to know is "what's more important" to the end user because that's what we're going to include in the kit.

Now mind you, although from a performance standpoint, the beam break is superior, the drilling for them isn't the easiest thing to do........even for a competent pro shop.

[JoshK]

Hmmm...have you said anywere how much you estimate these will retail for?


And I bet the break beam would cost more? Well your frames are expensive as hell (they are worth if you have the money)....so i guess you should put the more expensive thing in cause people are probly gonna be spending so much allready...you mine as well put the best in.

[robb2269]

Your right it's a proto type that is in the building stage not looks come after function and that was wrong of me to say especially since I could not build it. Good job for thinking outside the box. Can you sell it without giving eclispe a couple of dollars?

What about using a vert frame?
What happened to hyperframe? Only see one on e-bay here and there.

[ilikePB]

I don't own a Mag(although this thing could change that), but if the reflective eye logic is good, like Predator 2 good, there is no need to use breakbeam imo. I've seen a gun with Pred 2 running refective shoot black paint(some Wal Mart crap). My $.02

[JoshK]

well...whatever works good i guess....if they both let it cycle reliably at like 25bps (faster than people can go) that it should be fine.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Our algorithm is on par the Pred 2 based on what we've been told. We have not done a side-by-side analysis yet but we would like to down the road.

[JoshK]

what about that price elstimate i asked for? :rolleyes:

["Joe"]

Ya, it'd be nice to have an amount to be shooting for. I might need to adjust my saving tactics. ;)
From the looks of it, you'll have a kit and a full marker. Is this correct?

[Dayspring]

Most likely, it will be a kit and a full marker.

No, we do not have ANY sort of price estimate yet. Give us some time.

And the only reason we used the Eblade frame was that was what we had in the shop at the time that can run the mQvalve. Our proto frame was elsewhere.

Vert frame- we don't make one, so we wouldn't know. The cocker and mag share the same bolt pattern for their mounting holes, so we can easily use our frame & custom board for this gun.

Hyperframe- Centerflag has stopped production.

[PBX Ronin 23]

We aren't adverse to doing some kind of vert frame for this project. We're also taking a lookin at the possibility of retro-fitting the IntelliFrame. There are lots of possibilities. We're hoping to iron-out these issues soon.

[NJPaint]

Hmmm, I just picked up a Turtle Cocker E-blade, I think its going to make a stop at PBX this winter break for some minor upgrades ;)

[spasticsquirrel]

if i got a rouge frame, would i be able to get this to work with that frame, or could you?

Just dont want to get the wrong upgrade first...

[PBX Ronin 23]

if i got a rouge frame, would i be able to get this to work with that frame, or could you?

Just dont want to get the wrong upgrade first...
The problem is........"how are we gonna mount the board and the trigger switch in it. I'll have to speak to Rogue and see what can be done.

[Chronobreak]

if you guys can mount it into an intelliframe or y-grip without probs then it should be fine.

otherwise you might need to use a desighn more like ga devil does..or something completely different.

[spasticsquirrel]

i do beleive that the devilmag uses rouge's frome, im not sure though.

[Chronobreak]

i do beleive that the devilmag uses rouge's frome, im not sure though.
he does but its milled a bit more and stuff isndie to have room for the internals

[PBX Ronin 23]

Unless Rogue is willing to pre-mill the frame to accept our board, this may be difficult.

[spasticsquirrel]

My school is getting a cnc machine next year, maybe if i knew what to mill, i could mill it myself so that the internals would fit.

But... i dont know what kind of cnc machine, and it might not be able to mill it out.

so right now, im at a :confused:

[shatter_storm]

I just searched the thread, I got the impression that the sear and all that related linkage isn't necessary with the mQ-Valve the way you have it set up right now. Would this mean you can run the thing independant of a gripframe and have the control electronics mounted whichever way is most convienant?

[PBX Ronin 23]

I just searched the thread, I got the impression that the sear and all that related linkage isn't necessary with the mQ-Valve the way you have it set up right now. Would this mean you can run the thing independant of a gripframe and have the control electronics mounted whichever way is most convienant?
Absolutely.

One of the ideas I had was to implement it on a non-paintball project involving an r/c scale model of a tank that will use the valve to fire munitions from the canon. Works well in the conceived application.....at least on paper. Hopefully I'll find the time to actually do it. ;)

This is the reason why the mQ-Valve will be more tolerant of poor tolerances between the body and the rail since you don't have to worry about the linkages between the sear/bolt/on-off/trigger.

This but one of the numerous advantages of the mQ.

[Chronobreak]

that mean the valve can be annod :) ?

[B.A.M.]

sweet mag, love the barrel color

[spasticsquirrel]

im going to see tommarow what kind of cnc machine the school is getting, because i like 90 frames alot, but ill get an intelliframe if nothing can work out..

[matt-o]

hey if you guys are completely remaking the valve will you do me a favor and clean up or re position the macro fitting on the valve? thats the one thing ive always hated about mags, other than that its all pure gold

[shatter_storm]

Absolutely.

One of the ideas I had was to implement it on a non-paintball project involving an r/c scale model of a tank that will use the valve to fire munitions from the canon. Works well in the conceived application.....at least on paper. Hopefully I'll find the time to actually do it. ;)

This is the reason why the mQ-Valve will be more tolerant of poor tolerances between the body and the rail since you don't have to worry about the linkages between the sear/bolt/on-off/trigger.

This but one of the numerous advantages of the mQ.


I was thinking something like arm mounted cannons using warp bodies, q-loader sockets, remote air, and some fancy strapping. Fully automatic, designed for scenario play as a terminator, the borg, etc etc. Good to hear there's that sort of flexibility, maybe I'll end up buying a valve once it comes out just to mess around with. :)

[PBX Ronin 23]

that mean the valve can be annod :) ?It can definitely be annoed.


I was thinking something like arm mounted cannons using warp bodies, q-loader sockets, remote air, and some fancy strapping. Fully automatic, designed for scenario play as a terminator, the borg, etc etc. Good to hear there's that sort of flexibility, maybe I'll end up buying a valve once it comes out just to mess around with. :)I see no reason that it can't be done. The only thing that you would really have to do is give it a body.

[ubooze]

Now since no one has asked anything for a while, I'll come in and ask.

Would it be possible to use this mod with warp left or right bodies?

And should this become a drop-in mod, how would the user go about getting the eyes installed on current bodies (ie: would they send them in, certified machinists, or something else?)?

[Chronobreak]

Now since no one has asked anything for a while, I'll come in and ask.

Would it be possible to use this mod with warp left or right bodies?

And should this become a drop-in mod, how would the user go about getting the eyes installed on current bodies (ie: would they send them in, certified machinists, or something else?)?

presumably if it takes a vert ule in this forum if it stayed this way it would easily take warp bodies :)

as for eyes probly pbx may offer a service but it might be timely and seomwhat $

any news? i figd with the recent pneu trigger info maybe we have some sooner hope here :cool: besides i think this mod has slightly mroe potential ;) :clap:

[PBX Ronin 23]

We're weighing all our options. Perhaps Zup will make a run of ULE bodies with eyes pre-drilled. ;)

[vf-xx]

I was thinking something like arm mounted cannons using warp bodies, q-loader sockets, remote air, and some fancy strapping. Fully automatic, designed for scenario play as a terminator, the borg, etc etc. Good to hear there's that sort of flexibility, maybe I'll end up buying a valve once it comes out just to mess around with. :)


Does everybody have that idea? I've been kicking that one around for years, just haven't done it cause I didn't have the time resources.

You MUST show it if you build it!!!!!!

[nicad]

We're weighing all our options. Perhaps Zup will make a run of ULE bodies with eyes pre-drilled. ;)

If not, I might be able to run some ULE's through the mill to spot some eye holes/mounts.
Then again.. im sure yall could too.

lemee know.
part of my terms are I want to see an mQ-valve tho. :)

out!

[PBX Ronin 23]

We would prefer using a beam break eyes. Nicad if you want to do some, the hole position is smack center of the feed next to the ball detent. My only thing is that we need to come up with an aluminum cover.

If you're interested in doing something, let me know. This is the Cocker version so it should give you some idea.http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=628338&perpage=21&pagenumber=47

[Chronobreak]

talk guys if you havent

i would like to see a nice custom agg mag with a milled m-q-valve...maybe matching bodies..:).

did i hear read soemwhere you dont need the whole valve? how much is millable and or not needed? could this stil be made smaller/lighter?

btw im asking because my like dream gun would be a micromag with a mod like this warped ;)

and i was itnerested because didnt nicad just mill a micro and mill a valve w/out reg for it(i looked for the thread but couldnt find it anywhere)

anyways just seems liek theirs some cool posibilities here ;) ;)
remember talks are good guys spread the p-ball love

:cheers:

[Mad_Man]

I Dont know if anyone has seen it yet. This is the MQ valve, atleast as it was shown on Air-Powered Forums.


<CENTER><IMAGE SRC="http://www.air-powered.com/uploads/post-6-1104971569.jpg"></CENTER>

["Joe"]

http://pbreview.com/forums/images/smilies/slurp.gifKarta MQhttp://pbreview.com/forums/images/smilies/slurp.gif

[PBX Ronin 23]

Platforming the mQ to be used in a Mag body requires that we put the valve into a casing to fit to AGD specs. People might get a little confused when they see the actual size of the Cocker version.

The difference is that in the Mag version, the out-port is facing forward through a power-tube like assembly.

And yes, the valve casing can be milled and annoed and the only limitation is your imagination.

[nicad]

Mel-
what an email addy I can contact you at? if you dont want to post it in public, email me at the email from the contact page here http://www.deadlywind.com/contact.html

thanks-
Colin

[PBX Ronin 23]

Nicad Body + Rogue Rail and Frame + PBX mQ = BEAST......... ;)

[Mad_Man]

Any idea of a timeframe until the valve can be released in a mag casing?
Even a very rough scale in months would do, I just want to know if i should hold my breath.

Is the original price estimate of less than $150 still on?

[PBX Ronin 23]

We're working towards having them out before the end of the second quarter..........I hope. As for the price, I'm not sure about that. We may have to sell the valve as a kit with a frame and pds.

[slade]

Nicad Body + Rogue Rail and Frame + PBX mQ = BEAST......... ;)
how bout karta/dallara body and rail, rogue vert frame, and PBX mQ valve milled to match the body?

[rkjunior303]

Platforming the mQ to be used in a Mag body requires that we put the valve into a casing to fit to AGD specs. People might get a little confused when they see the actual size of the Cocker version.

The difference is that in the Mag version, the out-port is facing forward through a power-tube like assembly.

And yes, the valve casing can be milled and annoed and the only limitation is your imagination.

why not mill a slug/custom body that already accepts the new valve assembly in its smallest form rather than fitting it to an existing mag valve hole..

for example.. colin does a run of Kartas.. Instead of the milling doing the standard mag valve, these special bodies are mQ valve bodies........ Just a thought. Might be easier just having the mag valve version, since there would prob need to be one for something like a ULE anyways....

[Skoad]

retrofitting it into an exisiting mag body will produce more sales. (at least at first)


Also, the slug bodies have the hole for the valve/bolt area drilled already.

[PBX Ronin 23]

how bout karta/dallara body and rail, rogue vert frame, and PBX mQ valve milled to match the body?We can certainly do that. I have spoken to some people about doing that already. It would be pretty sexy if all the lines flowed from front to back.


why not mill a slug/custom body that already accepts the new valve assembly in its smallest form rather than fitting it to an existing mag valve hole..

for example.. colin does a run of Kartas.. Instead of the milling doing the standard mag valve, these special bodies are mQ valve bodies........ Just a thought. Might be easier just having the mag valve version, since there would prob need to be one for something like a ULE anyways....We're already thinking of doing this. There's quite a bit of stuff up our collective sleeves in PBX. You'll remember this thread several months from now and laugh. But we also need to provide for the existing Mags out there as well.

[spasticsquirrel]

What is going to be put into the grip frame?

[PBX Ronin 23]

What is going to be put into the grip frame?We're trying to ascertain this now. What we would ideally want is to be able to fit the board onto the Intelli or other readily available frame and just sell the valve, eyes and the board. This in and of itself seems to be major design obstacle but we're trying to see what we can do.

[Skoad]

Is PBX hiring? :cool:

[PBX Ronin 23]

Or worse case scenario, sell the a modified version of our e-frame.

[spasticsquirrel]

I heard my logic frame that im going to get, dont have it yet thanks to the ano guy, has plenty of room, could you just tell me how much space i need, and i could probably try to modify the inside of it if i need to.

[PBX Ronin 23]

I heard my logic frame that im going to get, dont have it yet thanks to the ano guy, has plenty of room, could you just tell me how much space i need, and i could probably try to modify the inside of it if i need to.
I hear what you're saying but it doesn't make sense for us to come up with several board configurations. Space is not the issue.

[Muzikman]

All I want to know is, when can I see the inside of a mQ-valved mag:)

[PBX Ronin 23]

This is for the Cocker. The inlet and outlet ports are in a different position for the Mag version but this sort of gives you an idea. Cheers.

http://www.pbxbattlezone.com/images/cocker/mQvalve.jpg

[Chronobreak]

I heard my logic frame that im going to get, dont have it yet thanks to the ano guy, has plenty of room, could you just tell me how much space i need, and i could probably try to modify the inside of it if i need to.

heres the prob they want to make $ and get these things out reasonably fast iwth as little effort as possible(wouldnt we all ;))

its not really $ feasible to do such custom work. as it would be $ and time consuming and therefore cut into others time of getting the product and slowing production.

i would say if they culd fit it into a 45* intell, y-grip and or vert then we would be set :)


i really would like to stres the y-frame version ;)

--edit pic is cool..

hmm q-valved spyder.... :D lol that ight cause some damage

[nippinout]

You got that solenoid heat sinked?

[PBX Ronin 23]

Heat sinked?.....lol. Oh ye who shoots a case a game. Pose another designing headache why don't you. :rofl:

[noahyay]

im officially in love with this

ive gone to great lenths to modify my marker and the only succesful thing ive come out with is a drop forward......

basically i need a way to make my marker tourney legal and this looks like the best option.

i consists of a lvl 7 an eye and a mq valve and thats it?
this would be the simplest gun on the market. with 2 moving parts.

my other option is a devil mag but thats more complex and also its 550, so im hoping this will be less

http://www.noahkool.com/mqmag.swf

is my 20 min animation of the mq mag

[spasticsquirrel]

that doesnt look very efficient...

the air passes through the bolt after the gun has fired

[Chronobreak]

solenoids dont move..

[PBX Ronin 23]

That's a very good rendition but it's not entirely accurate. The yellow thing doesn't move that much and the air burst is much more control. If you set it a 3.75mS, it will be just that.

[spasticsquirrel]

so how efficient is this compared to a X-valve?