Tac One vs '04 Autococker

[jrod]

Hi, guys, I'm new here so please be nice :D . I've been a Tippmann user for the last 10 years, and I finally want something better. I play mostly woods/recball. After lurking on this forum for a while, I was all set on getting a Tac One. I went to my local shop to do a little touch and feel. I love it. It feels really nice. However, right next to the Tac One was an '04 Autococker (for $50 less). I know cockers are good. And the sales guy was really pushing it. But, help me out. What are the benefits of an AGD over a cocker. I'm not new to paintball, but I am new to the higher end markers. I was able to dry fire both markers, and I'm a little bothered by the ablility to short stroke the cocker. However, I realize that its a difficulty that can be overcome with a little time spent shooting.

So anyways, I know this is an AGD forum. But the members here seem very informed. I would really appreciate the help.

[Blazestorm]

Tac-one is this - Easier to Shoot Fast
Easier to Upgrade
Has Anti-Chopping System (LVL 10)
Same Barrel-Threads as Cockers
A Good company backing it

04' Cocker is this - Uhm... Cheaper?

I'm not too biased either, I love cockers + mags + my cyborg all equally.

For the price the Tac-One cannot be beat, simple as that.

AND WTF WELCOME TO AO!!! LOLERTAFFY :rofl:

[HateMachine]

I've owned both, and guess which on i kept... the mag. Let me break it down The cocker was a whinny women that was always going pre-menstral on me with over complicatedness
The mag was the women that never gave me back talk and has never failed to provide for me

[frischtr]

Tac-one is this -
Easier to Upgrade


Have to disagree with that... One thing cockers have is that they are THE most upgradable marker on the market...

I'd take the Tac, though...

[Chronobreak]

Have to disagree with that... One thing cockers have is that they are THE most upgradable marker on the market...

I'd take the Tac, though...


most upgradeable and easily upgradebale are two diff things

get a mag u wont be dissapointed.
i wish i could say the same for the cocker

[azza]

Id have to say get the mag, you wont regret it!
Plus Im guessing the store guy would be pushing the 'cocker is cos then he can try sell a bunch of aftermarket unecersary(sp?) "upgrades" to you.

Cheers
Aaron

[AutomagRT1483]

If you like to tinker with your guns, go for the cocker.
If you don't, go for the Tac.

[BrockSampson]

Well, since you're posting this question here, maybe on some level you've already got your mind made up and would just like reassurance? If you're looking for ways to rationalize the Mag over a Cocker, this is the place to do it! Consider this another vote for the Tac.
:cheers:

[Blazestorm]

Have to disagree with that... One thing cockers have is that they are THE most upgradable marker on the market...

I'd take the Tac, though...

Easy as in to change the frame it requires no adjusting whatsoever, you just slap on a frame.

Same thing with the rail, if you get an RTP style you use a bearing to hold the sear-in place instead of a pin, for valve, interchangable, same with body and foregrip.

Cocker upgrades aren't "easy" to install... except maybe a bolt. :p

[SpecialBlend2786]

Welcome to AO!

I'd go with the Tac-One as well. The cocker is a wonderful marker however....

[JesseB]

are we talking VF tactical versus TAC-ONE ?
Cause if so its 6 one way and half a dozen another. All going to be personal preferance there buddy... but a stock 04 there is no competition TAC one any day of the week

[Blazestorm]

VF tactical is an 04... just with ab camo anno and extended foregrip mount w/ reverse 15* ASA

No performance differences.

[JimInVA]

I am a cocker owner. My first marker was an `02 Vertical Autococker. It was not very consistant at the chrono or on the field. I quickly changed from CO2 to HPA and that helped tremendously. Still not satisfied, I changed the inline regulator several times... ultimately settling on the Sidewinder. When it worked, it worked very well. It took a while to understand that the cocking rod (which would perpetually loosen during play) was causing most of my early problems.

As folks have said, the cocker has tons of upgrade options. As I began to put my wish list of upgrades together, I was amazed at how much money I was going to be spending (pneumatics, bolt, valve, eblade, etc). I ultimately settled on a
Freeflow Lotus E-Blade Autococker (http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1558156&postcount=30) as it had most everything I wanted. NOTHING would move me from this baby! And then I won an AGD TAC ONE...

Suddenly I had a new love...

The TAC ONE was so much lighter and it was consistant beyond belief. The ease of adjusting it when chrono'ing made me swoon with delight. I will say that it is no where near as efficient on a bottle of air as my cockers were... but that's a factor that I'm willing to deal with given all of its other strengths. You can see comments from my first use here (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=149900). Other than the ULE, I'm not sure that there's really anything else to add... and I'm not yet convinced that even that's a necessity.

All in all... for the money, I don't know of a better buy for the woodsball/scenario type of play that I enjoy. It even comes stock with a quite nice J&J barrel (if you're not yet ready to purchase a barrel system).

I hope this helps with your decision making process.

Jim

(P.S. I'm taking offers on the Lotus Freeflow... ;) )

[The Frymarker]

Welcome to the forums!!!!

First off cheaper doesn't always mean better! When my husband and I had an indoor field we would see a lot of autocockers, the biggest problem was timing them, like most people stated in this thread if you like to tinker get a cocker.

There's a lot of people that swear by them. I personally never liked them, too many parts for me, I like things simple.

I have played with a lot of markers from Angels to Tippmanns, electronic to mechanical. 2 weeks ago I got to play with my first AGD marker The Tac One. I love it and I sprayed paint pretty fast with it as well.

I played all day 8 hours worth and not one break, I personally thought the Tac One for Scenario play is great!

Tac One (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=151299)


Hope this helps!!!

[pointm@n]

Of course the owner was pushing you towards the cocker. You'd be in his shop every week "upgrading" it to be just as good as a stock Tac1. Also all the money he'll make when the cocker needs timing and breaks. After he sells you the Tac1, he'll only see you when you need paint and air since the Tac1 is built like a rock (in a good way).

[Automaggot68]

AND WTF WELCOME TO AO!!! LOLERTAFFY :rofl:

WTF??! LOLERTAFFY?! HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!
Welcome to AO, buddy!

[jrod]

Thanks all for the replies. As someone said, I've pretty much decided on the Tac One, but I just wanted a little validation. If I get the Tac One, will I want the ULT? What are the pros and cons of that upgrade?

[casaca]

Hi, i was with the same doubt as jrod, but, i've already decided, TAC-ONE rules...

So, i've a problem, who can i purchase or order a Tac-One in Europe? Airgun Europe doesn't have the option to order, the dealers (where in Portugal) doesn't know when they have it in stock, nor the price, neither if they ever have it for sell... :mad: :mad:

Let be with my tears, :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Banshee23]

Thanks all for the replies. As someone said, I've pretty much decided on the Tac One, but I just wanted a little validation. If I get the Tac One, will I want the ULT? What are the pros and cons of that upgrade?

The ULT does lighten up the trigger pull quite a bit, although as a trade off it adds some complexity to the mag (setup & such, not terribly hard though). It also makes it easier to short stroke, you won't chop because of the Lvl 10 if it does of course but you'll notice it if it happens. For brand new people I'd say go with the standard on/off & once you're comfortable with everything spend the $40 or so and get the ULT kit. Ideally you could try both out & see for yourself :)

I'd definately say the TAC over the 04 BTW, unless you're planning on getting an e-blade eventually. A mechanical cocker by itself has a very hard time holding up to a RTP/Tac One.

[SlartyBartFast]

Have to disagree with that... One thing cockers have is that they are THE most upgradable marker on the market...

I'd take the Tac, though...


And there are more parts available on the open market for Chevettes than there are for Ferraris.

Why the stupid obcession amongst paintballers over how many, mostly cosmetic, doo-hickies they can bolt to their gun or how many parts they can replace with different coloured but identically functional parts? :rolleyes:

[Spaceman613]

No one asked if the guy plans on using CO2 ever...

both guns have good and bad points, but I guess so many here want to overlook each and just blindly pic the mag.

How about a detailed comaprison by someone that has shot both and can evaluate all areas of form and function.

[jrod]

No one asked if the guy plans on using CO2 ever...

both guns have good and bad points, but I guess so many here want to overlook each and just blindly pic the mag.

How about a detailed comaprison by someone that has shot both and can evaluate all areas of form and function.

I'd love a detailed comparison. And, I will only be using HPA. I still have my Tippmanns if I wanna use CO2. Remember, I can't see ever going electro, so I don't care about the eblade.

Thanks again.

[Spaceman613]

Ok, heres a different point of view..

Niether will chop if set up correctly. LX fo rthe mag, and low recocking pressure for the cocker.

The mag will have the lower profile

The cocker can be set up to be more efficient

trigger feel is subjective, so thats up to you and you may need to try them both to see what you like.

Both will shoot plenty fast, mag will have the slight advantage out of the box, but i have set up a plain jane cocker to be incredibly fast with a wgp hinge frame.

Maintenance... I would say both are similar. If you dont mess with the cocker you wont need to mess with it.... Same with the mag

Barrels. same threads on both.

Resale.... well, the mag will have better resale in the short term, but who knows for long term. And the cocker will have a lower short term resale, but with the entry level cockers coming soon, who knows on the long term.... thats a hard one to judge.

Bottom line... they are both good markers... But the feel is very different, try them both out and go with what feels more comfy in your hands and lets you hit the target.

[Fixion]

Stock Tac ONE > '04 Autococker

But I would probably take high end cocker (Freeflow, CCM, Eclipse, Smat Parts, etc.) over most mech mags. I just love how tunable they are. I also prefer the smooth buttery feel of a (good) cocker trigger, to the snappy/bouncy feel of a mag. Oh, and don't forget the back block ;)

Don't get me wrong, I also like mags (I've owned many), just not as much as cockers.

[ghideon]

I own the following:
ULE bodied E-Mag
FreeFlow Lotus E-Cocker
ULE ULT Mag (basically same as the TAC-ONE, just a different body style)

The Cocker is a pain. It's the first one I've owned, so it's a learning experience. Like JiminVA said, the blasted cocking rod kept coming lose. I've had the cocker for three months, and didn't learn this until last month. The little beasty is screwed in tight and loctited six ways from Sunday.

Here's how I see it:

E-Mag: Old faithful, the steady date, the tank, etc. It has never failed me, unless I was tweaking with it on a Friday night and then tried playing with it on Saturday. The last time I had a problem with the cocker, I pulled this bad boy out, ran some oil through it, and it chrono'd 274, 275, 272, 270. You can't ask any more of a marker. And it's fast.

ULE ULT Mag: So lightweight. I don't play with it often unless I loan my E-Mag out. I feel like I'm invicible. Very compact, too. And reliable as old faithful. I take my friends out once in awhile, who have only played a few times (with rentals no less) and they all love this marker.

The E-Cocker: Last week was the first time I had gotten to play a whole day without something going wrong. I have never run through a case of paint that fast. The thing was freaking a-mazing. It just took me a little while to learn the marker. The only thing I don't like was the recoil, and I'm working on that.

Do you like to tinker? Get the cocker.

Do you like to have a large amount of parts to select while upgrading? Get the cocker.

Do you value reliabilty and and ease of maintenace? Get the Mag.

Are you concerned with out of the box performance? Get the Mag.

Will you be looking to go electronic down the line? Get the cocker.

In your case I'd go for the Mag.

[JimInVA]

Excellent post, ghideon!!

[Beowulfs_Ghost]

Anecdotal evidence;

A guy I know decided it was time to get an Autococker. He brought his "fresh out of the box" cocker to the field, and spent about an hour with the field owner getting it tuned up, and learning the basics of shooting a cocker (even a properly tuned cocker can be a blender in the wrong hands). Once it was all working correctly, it was pretty slick. Accurate, quiet, and a really smooth feel to the trigger.

When I brought my new mag to the field, all I had to do was chrono it.

However, when both are running at there peak it becomes a matter of personal preferance. I like the clean lines and ease of maintainance of my mag. The cocker guys like the action and tweakability of their cockers.

I like to tinker as much as the next guy. However, I get more joy out of tinkering to improve something as opposed to tinkering just to get minimal functionality.

[JoshK]

well said...i cant give a good post because ive only owned my '03 cocker, and a tippmann 98...but no matter what gun you go with...it will be a life change from the tippy...if you need to take a little buget on a gun, and you want either a tac or a 04...i would say 04...but if you dont mind the extra money go for the mag...either way in the long run you will wanna upgrade them...i hope my rambleing helped...anyways, GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BUY! :cheers:

[jrod]

Am I correct in understanding that the Tac One is a more capable marker out of the box, when compared to the stock '04 VF Autococker? What I'm trying to ask is "would I have to upgrade the stock 'Cocker in order to make it comparable to the Tac One?

[FSU_Paintball]

Depends.

Keep in mind you'll need compressed air for the Tac-One. If you can afford that, I think the Tac-One is a better choice, since it's faster and has anti-chop and probably will have less problems. But the cocker runs pretty well on CO2.

[Chronobreak]

Am I correct in understanding that the Tac One is a more capable marker out of the box, when compared to the stock '04 VF Autococker? What I'm trying to ask is "would I have to upgrade the stock 'Cocker in order to make it comparable to the Tac One?


sounds like u answered your own question.

any upgrades to the cocker to put it in the same class is $ out of your pocket that wont cause much increases. and u wont get a return on your investment s opposed to the tac-one probly having a higher resale value as well.

[maxama10]

Honestly id go with the Tac-One AGD is very reliable although the lvl 10 anti chop bolt can be a witch with a b if not tuned properly but after youve tuned it or if its pre tuned the mag in my opinion would be a better choice also Tom Kaye CEO of AGD is very involved [it seems to me] with his customers [i suppose that last part really had nothing to do with youre question sorry] also i think you can put the hAir frame trigger on a Tac One which would be an expensive but well worth and awsome upgrade

[SOAD8789]

ive used my friends cocker on many occasions, and i can tell you the mag is the better gun. when i was shooting the cocker, i was afraid i would break something, and it generally confused the crap out of me. i got used to the hinge frame to where i would almost never short stroke, and i can pull a much higher ROF with the mag. i dont chop anymore. not one bit. more than i can say about the cocker though. the 04 will chop, but not much. efficiancy is a win for the cocker though. they are fairly efficiant guns. my mag sucks air, but i get over it. you honestly dont need the ULT to get a high ROF on a mag...use it the way it is now. i think you should get a mag, but then again, the only gun i would consider other than a mag is a shocker...

[Glickman]

I've owned both, and guess which on i kept... the mag. Let me break it down The cocker was a whinny women that was always going pre-menstral on me with over complicatedness
The mag was the women that never gave me back talk and has never failed to provide for me


... i dont think ive EVER heard such a awsome but true analogy like that :clap:

as for the shocker suggestion, i also just went from a matrix to a shocker, and im absolutly loving it. its very simple to use, very high rate of fire easily (even though i have it set for no bounce), easy to clean, LIGHT!!!, i could carry it with one hand all day (which i pretty much did at shatnerball 3) and its very small.

im not biased either, i love my reflex, but its "winey" and if i dont feed it, it pisses on me

so i would say Cocker < Tac < Shocker

so depending on how much u wanna spend, i would get the tac one or the shocker

(as for effiency, i havent had a problem, i get like 2 rounds of senario, which is like 1 hopper and 2 pods per round.

[jrod]

as for the shocker suggestion, i also just went from a matrix to a shocker, and im absolutly loving it. its very simple to use, very high rate of fire easily (even though i have it set for no bounce), easy to clean, LIGHT!!!, i could carry it with one hand all day (which i pretty much did at shatnerball 3) and its very small.

im not biased either, i love my reflex, but its "winey" and if i dont feed it, it pisses on me

so i would say Cocker < Tac < Shocker

so depending on how much u wanna spend, i would get the tac one or the shocker

(as for effiency, i havent had a problem, i get like 2 rounds of senario, which is like 1 hopper and 2 pods per round.
Yeah, I've pretty much made up my mind on the Tac One. I'm not a smart parts fan, and I want a strictly mechanical marker. Thanks for the input. By the way, I'm sorry I missed shatnerball. It was at my home field (Challenge Park).

[Glickman]

awsome, be sure to give a full review ;) i went with a shocker over a e-tac , i loved tacs more than the e-tacs, but i needed something electro