Question about wiping hits at major events

[madmolly]

OK Not looking to start any right vs wrong arguement. I have never been to a big even like cup or any major NPPL,PSP event but how does a pro player get away with wiping hits with so many fans watching them. I mean if I went to a match and Chris Laysoya was playing I would watch his every move along with 50% of people. Now if I see him take a direct hit and wipe it in the many ways pros do I would think he is a total tool and laugh about it. Do the pros wipe even though they know they have fans in the stands that can see them or not? I guess I need to get off my butt and go to cup this year and see for myself.

[amoeba]

that makes me think............................................. .................................... :rolleyes:

[vonort]

Yes they do. And they don't care. Considering most of their fans try to emmulate their every move. So their fans think its cool that he gets away with wiping. Its really kind of disgusting. Your not missing much by not going to a major wipe event.

[Wc Keep]

the pros know how to cheat. they get real good at cheating.

also by going to a major event you get to see some grade a paintball. so if you wanna pick up a few tips watch these games.

[madmolly]

Interesting. When I go to tourneys if I see someone wiping I say something to them. If they get in my face that is their choice.

[The Action Figure]

once your hit you quickly move back into the bunker in one swift motion, wipe against something close and you have successfully cheated. :rolleyes:

[Wc Keep]

once your hit you quickly move back into the bunker in one swift motion, wipe against something close and you have successfully cheated. :rolleyes:

sounds like someone knows a bit about this..... :rolleyes:

[The Action Figure]

yeah thanks, I try... :rolleyes:

[madmolly]

Everyone answers to their own paintball god on whether or not wiping is cool. I know I had an online discussion with Bob from TAG about cheater boards and angels he made the comment about World Cup and how bad the wiping was there. I just can't figure out how you could win a match and 500 people saw you wipe a hit then walk off and talk smack. That is amazing too me.

[Toxic Dave]

Wiping rarely occurs...playing on, diving off shots, etc. that's alot more prevelant. Fact of the matter is that players in all sports get over on the refs, there's not alot you can do to stop fouls completely, hand out penalties to the guilty and hope to catch more than you miss.

dave

[Tunaman]

It all has to do with how good your team is. If you guys are really good, you wont get hit and won't NEED to wipe. Play fair...as in being fair in life too. A cheater is a rotten punk...and probably a liar and thief too . Be a Man. Do the right thing.

Come play poker with us sometime...cheaters get a 9mm Jacketed HP in the forehead before they even have a chance to say "I am sorry"...

P.S. Can anyone tell me why my smilies dont work? I am laughing now....

[143Paul]

Wiping rarely occurs...playing on, diving off shots, etc. that's alot more prevelant. Fact of the matter is that players in all sports get over on the refs, there's not alot you can do to stop fouls completely, hand out penalties to the guilty and hope to catch more than you miss.

dave

The difference in paintball is when a ref hands out the penalty - the players b!tch for the next half hour and try to intimidate the ref to change his call :nono:

[Evil Bob]

There are ways to fix it but people are not willing to step up and do what is necessary. To stop wipeing, the penalty much be so harsh that no one, and I mean *NO ONE*, would be willing to even think about taking the chance to wipe.

Same thing will fix gun cheats.

Harsh as in your team is instantly disqualified from the entire event and possibly from all future events.

There were several great articles in this month's PGI regarding gun cheats.

-Evil Bob

[Lohman446]

Intimidating refs... I have never tried that :rolleyes:

The base premise of the game, is your hit, yuo walk off, I understand that. What about those "edge" calls... where spray comes off the bunker.

In example... my team and I were at a tournament the other day - now I call myself out on direct hits, let me make that clear. I had a ball hit the bunker next to me and spray all over me. There were kids for all intents reffing - the kid comes over, I look at him and tell him "thats spray" Understand nooone on my team is a small person... this ref looks at me goes "ok" and walks back to the sideline. Now I appreciate the trust, perhaps I deserved it. But I'm ok with lettign the refs make a bad call.

It gets worse - PSP Chicago - I'm playing the snake - a lay down next to a stand up. A ball comes blatantly through the crack in teh bunker... actually was wedged in there and bounced thruogh when another hit it. Ball hits my hopper, obviously breaks. I roll my eyes, look at the ref who was watching it.
Me: "Is that legal"
Ref: "I don't know"
Me: Snuggles in tight to bunker, another ref coming down teh field
Me: "Is this legal"
Ref 2: "I don't know"
Me: Now having waited about a minute of game time. "Make a call, am I out or can I play"
Ref 2: "Go ahead and play"
Me: "Can I wipe this off"
Ref 2: "Dont touch it, just play"
Me: I continue to play... and the game ends.
Ref 4 - to the three others gathered: "Is he live"
Ref 1 "We've let him play this long, he must be"
Me: Going WTF... walks away
My team captain "Whats that, you out"
Me: "Nope, ref says Im clean"
Captain "wipe that off now"

Was that cheating, I asked a ref for a check immediatly on being hit, a questionable circumstance. IN hindsight it was probably against the rules... but I did aks a ref on somethign I did not know at the time.

[Evil Bob]

Yes, you knew it was an obvious hit, instead of doing the right thing and leaving the game, you decided to press your luck on the ref being an idiot and let them make the call. You got lucky in that you encountered four complete idiots on the same field.

Bottom line: yes, you cheated.

-Evil Bob

[Lohman446]

I'll live with teh bottom line, having reread the rules, I did not abide by them, yes I cheated. In my defense, it was an honest question when asked. Of course I expected the answer to be... "your gone" and was shocked when it was not.

[gc82000]

I know some guys that have the philosophy of play til you are pulled. That means through obivious hits and all. But what if you play through on unobivious hits, like to the pack or off the other side of your hopper? This can happen and somtimes the refs dont see it and thus don't pull you out. Like if I get hit on the mask, gun front or the side of my body, I will just walk off. But if I get an unobivious hit to the pack, hopper, or back, I want to be pulled before I walk off the field. I have walked too many times for a bounce that I will not do it in a tourney. Now is that cheating.

[Lee]

what the crowd sees does not matter. it's what the ref sees.

[tony3]

Toxic dave is right, straight up wiping, you don't see all that much of, penalty is too high. you wipe in an xball match, you and 3 guys are out, if 1 person was already eliminated, then you lose that match and they get a point. Playing on happens much more, with only a 1 for 1 penalty, and much easier way to BS out of it, it happens a lot more.

[ilikePB]

Yes, you knew it was an obvious hit, instead of doing the right thing and leaving the game, you decided to press your luck on the ref being an idiot and let them make the call. You got lucky in that you encountered four complete idiots on the same field.

Bottom line: yes, you cheated.

-Evil Bob
I disagree, the ref called you clean, so it wasn't cheating. In my book what the ref says goes. I woulda kept on playing too.

[Toxic Dave]

The penalty for wiping in X ball is a 10 minute major I belive(since one hasn't been called in any game I've watched, coached or played over the past 2 years) plus you'll lose 3 players in that point. Meaning you'll be playing down a player for the next 10 minutes of clock time!! Thus meaning you're gonna be in a bad spot. Playing on is 2 or 5 minutes, depending on the severity of the foul.

If a ref calls you clean, you're clean, it's not cheating if an official makes the wrong call.

It's a sport, fouls, penalties, etc occur in every sport, it doesn't make the offender a horrible person, or should they be shot on sight. It isn't black and white...If my trigger bounces should I be murdered?

dave

[Digits]

It all has to do with how good your team is. If you guys are really good, you wont get hit and won't NEED to wipe. Play fair...as in being fair in life too. A cheater is a rotten punk...and probably a liar and thief too . Be a Man. Do the right thing.

Come play poker with us sometime...cheaters get a 9mm Jacketed HP in the forehead before they even have a chance to say "I am sorry"...

P.S. Can anyone tell me why my smilies dont work? I am laughing now....


uhuh.. I'm sure you bust out your gats all the time on people who cheat that play poker with you :P


But for me, bottom line is, i'm playing to win..

I consider myself a good wiper to, although i've only done it once in a tourny haha.. I'm smooth though, I don't even look at the hit, just do a little tight bunker playing :P

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

The Fact is paintball needs some sort of governing body, to regulate refs, for the major events.

[LeatherPants]

what the crowd sees does not matter. it's what the ref sees.


Hit off the break on your torso? Easy just superman dive.

Wonder why pros run with their hands up near their heads? Because they want a ball to hit there instead of their mask so they can superman and clean it off their hand.

Gun hit? Swing marker to shoot off the other side while wiping the hit keeping the marker between your body and the bunker as you switch sides.

Hit in the barrel? See above but even easier.

Gogged? See above but as you switch sides make sure shoulder comes up near mask to wipe off.

Sadly there are so many ways to cheat and the refs can't catch them all. Sure the crowd sees but the crowd doesn't pull people.

[Destructo6]

Yes, you knew it was an obvious hit, instead of doing the right thing and leaving the game, you decided to press your luck on the ref being an idiot and let them make the call. You got lucky in that you encountered four complete idiots on the same field.

Bottom line: yes, you cheated.

-Evil Bob
I would disagree, also. He deferred and abided by the (in)decision of the reff. It was a bad call by the reff, which happens in all sports with reffs.

However, harsh penalties do need to be implemented to punish and eliminate cheating. Fines, suspensions, and bans are time-honored favorites, but the organization has to have the courage to do it.

[Toxic Dave]

Actually people run with their hand between the balls and their mask to hope for a bounce. The palm of your hand is wayyy softer than your lens

[LeatherPants]

Actually people run with their hand between the balls and their mask to hope for a bounce. The palm of your hand is wayyy softer than your lens


That too and easier to wipe.

[Crazy]

After whatching xball, and playing it, i find it players have a lot less need to cheat, since you just walk off and start a new game in 2 minutes. On the other hand in 5, 7, and 10 man formats one player can make a game winning difference. Wiping doesn't happen that often, a lot more playing on than anything, since it's pretty much easier and less than half the penalty.

[Digits]

yay for cheating :clap:

[SlipknotX556]

How to wipe in a major event, hmmm well lets see. Watch some videos where Lasoya is in them.

[Evil Bob]

I disagree, the ref called you clean, so it wasn't cheating. In my book what the ref says goes. I woulda kept on playing too.

No, the ref didn't call him clean, the ref just said "I dont know" and stood there like a moron. Then another moron came over and said "I dont know either". At the end of the game, the remaining two morons came over and said "well, we left him in until the end of the game, so we guess he's ok." That's not a bad call, that's plain incompetence by 4 refs and inexcuseable. You're counting on these guys to ref a game that you paid alot of money to participate in, the least you should expect is them to have a clue as to what they're doing. So, yes, he lucked out and played on a field with 4 complete morons wearing ref jersies.


I would disagree, also. He deferred and abided by the (in)decision of the reff. It was a bad call by the reff, which happens in all sports with reffs.

However, harsh penalties do need to be implemented to punish and eliminate cheating. Fines, suspensions, and bans are time-honored favorites, but the organization has to have the courage to do it.

You're right, "indecision" was the key here, again, these refs were obviously not capable of running the show and should not have been reffing period.

This is where I have a problem with the those who label themselves "Pro" players. They know they're out, yet they keep playing on, there is no honor or integrity any more. There should not have been a need to defer to a ref. Sadly, the majority cheats simply because they believe everyone else does it, the only way to end the cycle is to make the punishment so harsh that no one would attempt to cheat in the first place. Add some quality professional reffing to the mix and we're headed in the right direction.

Agreed, if we want the world to take us seriously as a sport, we need to clean up our act and get organized (unified rules, professional independant reffing, etc.), until then we're just all wannabe hobbiests with delusions of grandeur.

-Evil Bob

[vonort]

^^^^^^ :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Very well said. :hail: :hail: :hail:

buy that man a beer. :cheers:

[1stdeadeye]

It all has to do with how good your team is. If you guys are really good, you wont get hit and won't NEED to wipe. Play fair...as in being fair in life too. A cheater is a rotten punk...and probably a liar and thief too . Be a Man. Do the right thing.

Come play poker with us sometime...cheaters get a 9mm Jacketed HP in the forehead before they even have a chance to say "I am sorry"...

P.S. Can anyone tell me why my smilies dont work? I am laughing now....


:hail:

:shooting: CHeaters!

[ilikePB]

No, the ref didn't call him clean, the ref just said "I dont know" and stood there like a moron. Then another moron came over and said "I dont know either". At the end of the game, the remaining two morons came over and said "well, we left him in until the end of the game, so we guess he's ok." That's not a bad call, that's plain incompetence by 4 refs and inexcuseable. You're counting on these guys to ref a game that you paid alot of money to participate in, the least you should expect is them to have a clue as to what they're doing. So, yes, he lucked out and played on a field with 4 complete morons wearing ref jersies.



You're right, "indecision" was the key here, again, these refs were obviously not capable of running the show and should not have been reffing period.

This is where I have a problem with the those who label themselves "Pro" players. They know they're out, yet they keep playing on, there is no honor or integrity any more. There should not have been a need to defer to a ref. Sadly, the majority cheats simply because they believe everyone else does it, the only way to end the cycle is to make the punishment so harsh that no one would attempt to cheat in the first place. Add some quality professional reffing to the mix and we're headed in the right direction.

Agreed, if we want the world to take us seriously as a sport, we need to clean up our act and get organized (unified rules, professional independant reffing, etc.), until then we're just all wannabe hobbiests with delusions of grandeur.

-Evil Bob
Well, I'll tell you that I would have also played on and so would the majority of players I suspect. If the ref can't make a decision then it is playing the gray, I like to play the gray, it gives you an advantage. Call me a low down dirt scroundral I don't care, but I have skill and I will play the gray which gives me an advantage over others and I like to win.

[Lohman446]

I would also like to point out that I did not fire a ball while in the gray area until I had specific permission from the ref to play.

[Evil Bob]

I would also like to point out that I did not fire a ball while in the gray area until I had specific permission from the ref to play.

Yeah, I know, you were dumbfounded (wtf???!!!) by the moron standing next to you drooling :) You've also admitted after reviewin the rules after the fact that you were definitely in the wrong, that is honorable.

Sadly, the truth of the matter is people like to take the easy route out to win at all costs.


Well, I'll tell you that I would have also played on and so would the majority of players I suspect. If the ref can't make a decision then it is playing the gray, I like to play the gray, it gives you an advantage. Call me a low down dirt scroundral I don't care, but I have skill and I will play the gray which gives me an advantage over others and I like to win.

If the shoe fits, wear it. At least you have the integrity to come right out and say "I'm a cheater". So what are you going to do when the gray area is removed and you find that your so called advantage no longer exists and you find your skills are rather lacking? Will the game still be fun for you if you can't get over on others who are better then you are?

I honestly wonder how long Sergei can hold out before he tells his team to pull out all the stops and start openly cheating. I know he's close to total burnout from it. These guys (Russian Legion) train so hard and long and have godly gunnery and team movement skills, and get beaten pretty regularly by teams who aren't even in the same league skills wise simply because they (Russian Legion) chose not to cheat like everyone else. When our so called sport finally pulls its head out of its tail end and makes the necessary changes to eliminate cheating, we will truely see who has skills and who doesnt.

-Evil Bob