Using co2 Everyone has different answers!

[themish]

Ok, so i've been looking through the forums and its either reg or expansion chamber. I dont see how a reg can help liquid co2 from entering but a lot of people say its the best. What is the truth here? Anyone got any good ideas? Suggestions for a reg or exp chamber would be cool.

[VFX_Fenix]

The way a reg helps to keep liquid out of your gun is by reducing the pressure of the gas below the pressure that CO2 can exsist as a liquid at a given pressure.

Ex. At 800psi and 70*F CO2 can exsist as a liquid. If the pressure is regulated down to 600psi, the only state that CO2 can be in is a gas until the temp drops down below around 45*F at which point it can be a liquid again.

X-Chambers works by acting like a "liquid filter" that impedes the progess of liquid through the gas system long enough idealy to allow the lquid some more space to expand by warming up. Just about anyone with an X-chamber will tell you those things can get pretty cold, which is a good thing since they're acting as a heat sink. In reality, what they can do is if you're shooting long enough and hard enough, or just in a cold enough climate, they can fill with liquid and become reserviors for the stuff, at which point they lose all effectiveness and now there's not just a little liquid in the gas system, but a LOT. That isn't to say that this is a common occurance, but it can happen.

For the purpose of the Automag, which requires HPA to opperate propperly with a high input pressure, CO2 simply cannot be used because any effective method for keeping liquid out of the marker would reduce the input pressure to the valve to a point where the Mag would be unable to function propperly (sub 400psi). However, if you have a gun that uses an LP input, CO2 can be used if applied propperly. Basicaly I'm talking about a dual reg set-up with the initial reg set at around 500-600psi and the second reg set at 400psi or less.

[usmc8892]

I used a dead on paintball 8-stage expansion chamber on my minimag before i switched to compressed air. It worked okay, didn't seem to restrict air flow, and I didn't freeze my 'Mag. If it is fairly warm where you play you should be okay, but compressed air is better.

[soccer4minimags]

I have tried both, go x chamber and save the money. I used a stabilizer and I had better results with my ACI x chamber. Remember the mag has its own ver consistent reg to keep it consistent, all you have to do is take care of the "liquid" issue before it gets to the valve.

Most people make it too complicated, in my experiences with co2, simpler is better. Also have you thought about running veritcal bottle?

[themish]

yeah, i run vertical now and ide like to either run it like a stock on the back of the rail like oldschool mags or just bottomline. Wouldnt a multi-stage xchamber solve the problem of liquid entering the xchamber and increasing liquid flow into the gun?

[Kodiak]

Stick with what VFX Fenix said. He has it right on and knows what hes talking about.

[soccer4minimags]

themish, I used an ACI 4-stage.

[themish]

hmm, im still getting mixed signals...

[VFX_Fenix]

Okay, Mags want around an 800psi input pressure. At common temps (70-80*F) CO2 cannot exsist as a liquid. However, if the temp of the bottle drops below 65* liquid will be able to form again at 800psi. If you're running a vertical bottle set-up then there really shouldn't be too much of a problem avoiding getting liquid into the valve unless the Mag is turned sideways or inverted. A remote line with a vert. harness would be another way to achieve this.

If the tank is on-gun though, even with X-chambers, it's still possible to get liquid into the valve depending on how long and fast your strings are.

A reg will help, but so will an X-Chamber.

If you really want to tinker with this, the Palmer Stabalizer is the way to go for a reg. My experience with X-Chambers has been that ACI tends to make nice models that work about as well as anyone elses' if not better than some.

As I said before, when using CO2 the only way to be 100% sure not to suck liquid into the system is to run a double reg system with a good pressure gradient between the two regs. However, as I also stated before, this will not work with an Automag because of the HP input requirement and an attempt to dual reg under these conditions will lead to shoot-down/starvation of the valve. However, you can run Timmies, Angels, Bushies, Imps, Shockers, Trixs, Excals, Cockers, etc. under these conditions.

[soccer4minimags]

hmm, im still getting mixed signals...

And unfortunately that is all you will get. Everyones opinions differ on this. I'd say half the people on here that spout this anti-co2 garbage have never even tried it on their mags. No offense to anyone posting above, I am not specifically trying to say anybody here has or hasn't tried it. VFX-fenix has given you the right idea of your two options. And at least this thread isn't loaded with crap yet.

So basically the answer is this, everyones methods will vary. Nobodys set up is the same and nobody plays under exactly the same environmental conditions. I don't play in weather really below 50 degrees, so I really don't have much of an issue. I'd say 80% of the time when I play its 85 or 90+. It depends on your region and where you play.

Also, what sort of set-up are you going to run your tank, Since we have already touched on remotes, and VB, how is your on gun set-up. You may want to look at getting an angled asa, I use one and it helps slightly compared to the standard duckbill. It keeps the liquid towrds the bottom of the tank when it is in level shooting positons.

Basically, go with your gut feeling, there is no right or wrong answer. Both methods will work fairly well. They do vary in price though. So you make the choice, try one, if your not satisfied, try something else until you get what works for you.

[Asym]

I originaly used a ACI 4 stage expansion and still had the mag freeze so I added a stabilizer and its been great with no freeze ups. I left it setup with the expansion on the verticle adapter and the stabilizer mounted on the reg with no problems for about 5 years. A few months back it started to freeze up again so I called Palmers and they said send it in and they'd clean it and change the seals for free and I just had to pay for shipping back.

The gun hasn't had a freeze up since I got the stabilizer back from Palmers. So guess I'd recomend a good reg over an expansion, go to Palmer's site (http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/FAQ/stabfaq.htm) and read up on his thoughts on expansion chambers.