Real scoop on the new Shocker?

[punkncat]

Is there anywhere with some good unbiased info on this marker?

What upgrades are available? Boards? Better eyes (cause we all know vision sux)?

How do they hold up?

I have held and fired a few. I like the compactness and weight. I wasn't too pleased with the trigger , but all SP markers need work there , so no big deal. Otherwise I know nothing and am considering buying a standard 03. Any input would be greatly appreciated , and links to good info even better.

Thanks

[LaW]

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/smartparts/shocker03/index.shtml

Has a good write up on the 03 shocker

[evan123]

Saying vision sucks is a worthless statement. I agree it isn't the best but it sure as hell isn't aweful. Everyone tends to make fun of reflective eyes but wait, doesn't the precious x-mag aroudn here have reflective eyes? I never hear anyone say their reflective eyes suck.

Anyways, if you don't like vision which i doubt you won't unless you go into it with a pestimistic mind set, which is apparent, then you should go with a predator 2 board by www.theangelguy.com Which can put breakbeam eyes and and new faster board in

The shockers reliability mostly depends on the parts which lack wellness, which the most part is the regulator. The stock vertical maxflo is aweful in my honest opinion, so i would replace it with a CP reg or something of the sort to fix its main fault and after that it would be more reliable, of course maintain is needed.

Most people tend to make fun of the stock pull of the shocker which yes, sucks. All you need to do is unscrew the magnets and make the trigger light and have someone flip the microswitch, or you can do it yourself.

Hope i help
Evan

[Flow_Tech]

there nice..but ive seen alot of them down with problems..I know there is 15º ASA adapters,aftermarket triggers,snatch grips,and as far as i know,the only aftermarket board is the Dynasty board,which is like 130?

[ghideon]

Saying vision sucks is a worthless statement. I agree it isn't the best but it sure as hell isn't aweful. Everyone tends to make fun of reflective eyes but wait, doesn't the precious x-mag aroudn here have reflective eyes? I never hear anyone say their reflective eyes suck.


Erm, the reason you don't hear many X-Mag users complain about their reflective eyes is cause they aren't using them. Just food for thought.

Reflective eyes aren't that bad, IMHO. My Cocker has em, and as long as you keep them clean there isn't a problem.

[evan123]

I am guessing since the eyes is what seperates the x-mag from the ule x-vavled emag is the reflective eyes along with a nicer body of course. Therefoer i would assume the people on the x-mag use their eyes. Who has eyes and doesn't use them, what a stupid statement :rolleyes:

[LaW]

I am guessing since the eyes is what seperates the x-mag from the ule x-vavled emag is the reflective eyes along with a nicer body of course. Therefoer i would assume the people on the x-mag use their eyes. Who has eyes and doesn't use them, what a stupid statement :rolleyes:


I never used the eye on my sfl... the truth is that it took too much time sometimes to set it up for the paint and I really didnt need it because my lvl10 was always working... Not a stupid statement at all, because I am not the only one that hasnt or doesnt use them.

[Empyreal Rogue]

I am guessing since the eyes is what seperates the x-mag from the ule x-vavled emag is the reflective eyes along with a nicer body of course. Therefoer i would assume the people on the x-mag use their eyes. Who has eyes and doesn't use them, what a stupid statement :rolleyes:

Not entirely true. The X-Mag has a much better milling job, they're rarer, much lighter. There are major differences between the two, despite that the X-Mag is a more "modern" version of the E-Mag.

[dave_p]

well.
for 800 bucks it should just work. period and work well. its supposed to be a high end gun isnt it. if you gotta do all this stuff to it why does it cost so much? seems kind of stupid.

[GT]

as unbaised as I can

At the last AO meet Dan had just got one. I think there pretty sweet. Light and fast as hell, I didnt buy one because there effiency just sucks.

The guys at my local field that have them all use 88ci tanks or they play front and dont carry more than 4 pods.

[FallNAngel]

Who has eyes and doesn't use them, what a stupid statement :rolleyes:


You making that statement is kinda ironic...

Would I shoot a Shocker? Sure... would have to get it dirt cheap though. I'd be putting in the newest bolt kit for efficiency, putting on a new reg instead of the craptastic vert maxflo, then dropping in a predator 2 board for the breakbeam eyes.

[team unwanted]

shockers are alright but most of the ones i've seen have FSDO

[fire1811]

good shocker info

www.shockerowners.com

[68magOwner]

havign shot a timym for a while, and an imp for a long while, ive had an equal # of chops with beambrake eyes as with vision (0 chops with either to be exact) i dont see vision as a bad anti-chop at all

[punkncat]

as unbaised as I can

At the last AO meet Dan had just got one. I think there pretty sweet. Light and fast as hell, I didnt buy one because there effiency just sucks.

The guys at my local field that have them all use 88ci tanks or they play front and dont carry more than 4 pods.


Hey I own an X valve with lvl 10 , efficent isn't even a problem. I own a scuba..... :D

[1ofkind]

I only met 3 guys that ever liked there shockers, everyone else was a poser or hated it.

[andreb]

Warpig found the shocker to have FSDO even with the evolvo bolt kit...but I still think the gun looks good

[nt2004]

i shot one at a tourney and my 2 friends played a few games with them. I held one next to my mag for a comparison. The shocker was pretty light and compact (somehow my mag felt lighter) and the trigger was set pretty tight. It was easy to walk but after i saw it in use my opinion changed a bit. It had alot of dropoff problems and some erratic velocity (not typical, we couldnt figuure out why) and its effeciency was pretty bad. It had too many problems for my taste

[nastymag]

SP Vision sucks because of the logic, not because its reflective. it senses movement. drop a ball in your breach then pull it out and it will still fire. that means with Non Halo laoders it can chop ( i played some games running a rev) and will chop.

[BlackWeenie]

ok here we go!

vision: works fine. i dont even use mine, just put on the halo and its great
trigger: easily adjustable. stop *****ing, its a 1 minute fix
efficiency: i get about 1000 shots to a 68/3000 tank with my HE bolt
FSDO: also easily fixed. adjust the dwell/ROF and no more FSDO

i used my shocker this weekend at its first tourney and i absolutely loved it. i would definately recommend it.

[CoolHand]

There was a run of bad ORings used in some of the first vert maxflos, so they broke like mad, and gave the reg the crappy rep it has.

The new ones are fine, I've got one that's a month old, and it has yet to cut an oring (on CO2 no less :hail: ).

The eyes are fine too, but if you gotta have break beams, the Pred II is out there.

The efficiency argument is only valid with the stock bolt, and even then its not that bad (somehow folks are able to justify the Mag's 1000 ball count as "decent", but that same count on a Shocker "Tows the Wet Sprocket" :nono: ). Throw an ND bolt or a new FF bolt at it, and its right back up there.

Triggers are easy to fix, either adjust it to suit you, or replace it if you can't get it adjusted like you want. Five Minutes max.

Anyhoo, I say go for it if you want one. Once you get to that point, all the choices are pretty good, so whatever you choose, you'll like it.

[FragTek]

Saying vision sucks is a worthless statement. I agree it isn't the best but it sure as hell isn't aweful. Everyone tends to make fun of reflective eyes but wait, doesn't the precious x-mag aroudn here have reflective eyes? I never hear anyone say their reflective eyes suck.

Well if you havent heard it from anyone, let me be the first to say it for you :) Reflective eyes suck, X-Mag ACE included. The reason you may not hear that too often is because once you couple a so-so ACE system to tried and true anti-chop bolt, you lessen your chance for chops even further.

If you were to stick the X-Mag ACE on a gun with a good high bolt pressure that relies solely on some sort of ACE system to stop chops, it would suffer miserably.

[FallNAngel]

ok here we go!

Indeed...


vision: works fine. i dont even use mine, just put on the halo and its great

If it works fine, why turn it off? What's the point of even having it if you're going to turn it off?


trigger: easily adjustable. stop *****ing, its a 1 minute fix

Yes, if you know how to solder and have the equipment available. Not everyone does.


efficiency: i get about 1000 shots to a 68/3000 tank with my HE bolt

I hate to tell ya, but that's not great efficiency. That's putting it around on par with the Freestyle and Mag's... neither of which are known for their outstanding efficiency.


FSDO: also easily fixed. adjust the dwell/ROF and no more FSDO

That's right, increase your dwell and watch your efficiency disappear too.

[Hey Its Vo]

[QUOTE=FallNAngel]
Originally Posted by BlackWeenie
Q1.trigger: easily adjustable. stop *****ing, its a 1 minute fix

Originally Posted by FallNAngel
Yes, if you know how to solder and have the equipment available. Not everyone does.

Incorrect, the trigger can be adjusted by using allen wrenches/keys.

As far as aftermarket boards are concerned. If you want a "drop in board,"(meaning all you do is replace the stock board with out having to solder or mill) then you should consider the Tadao/Dynasty board. If having a spot milled for eyes isn't a problem with you, then I STRONGLY reccommend the Predator II (http://www.theangelguy.com/) they offer reflective(slower) AND break beam(faster response, better quality), Free software upgrades as they are available(unless otherwise stated by theangelguy himself.)

[FallNAngel]

Incorrect, the trigger can be adjusted by using allen wrenches/keys.

Yes, and if you want a lighter switch, which most people do, you'll have to solder in a new switch.

[Vash-HT]

you dont need to flip the switch to get a light trigger pull, and the heavier switch is in place so the gun bounces less.

[CoolHand]

Yes, and if you want a lighter switch, which most people do, you'll have to solder in a new switch.

Wow.

Vendetta much? :rofl:

Just lean back from the keyboard, and repeat after me . .. . . . . "Its just a paintball marker."

Deep Breath.

"Its just a paintball marker."

Keep doing that until you don't care anymore.

You'll thank me later . . . . . I swear. ;)

[VFX_Fenix]

Well let's see here... 1000 rounds from a 68/3000 fill... that's right around 15 shots per ci... Where I hail from that's pretty good for a 3 grand fill. Granted, the Mag can't shoot down to 200psi like the Shocker can, but still, a respectable number of shots from a single fill. I know my Angel will get around 500 shots from a 47/3000 fill as will my Autococker. That's much closer to 11 shots per ci for me, or are AC's suddenly not very efficient either? From what I've been led to understand about HPA fills and shot counts, 3K fills see around 10 shots per ci and 4.5K fills see around 15 on the average. I'm actually surprised that people are claiming to get that many shots from a Shocker on a 3K fill with a 68ci tank. There's a reason the people who owned older shockers ran'em on CO2.

I have a feeling that some of the "inefficiency" beliefs come from people not really knowing how many shots they put on their gun after they had their tank filled. So, something to do if you're bored and have some old paint laying around. Grab a couple bags and shoot until your HPA tank is dry keeping track of how many pods/bags you used. Hopefully your tank'll be around 3000 or so, that'll give a good baseline number for the marker. Everyone's results will vary.

[gc82000]

Wow I just figured that I get about 900 shots (1 halo b=160, 2 Dye locklids=320, 3 32* pods= 420) for a 45/45 fill on my A4. But how do you figure out the amount of shots you get for x ci? I got an A college Calculus but dont see the equations you used. But I guess that is pretty good.

[MindJob]

I am guessing since the eyes is what seperates the x-mag from the ule x-vavled emag is the reflective eyes along with a nicer body of course. Therefoer i would assume the people on the x-mag use their eyes. Who has eyes and doesn't use them, what a stupid statement :rolleyes:


With the LVL X I never realize weather or not the eye is on. IMHO, the LVL X works better than any 'eyes' that I have ever seen.

I really have no clue as to why people gripe about reflective eyes. They work.

[fire1811]

With the LVL X I never realize weather or not the eye is on. IMHO, the LVL X works better than any 'eyes' that I have ever seen.

I really have no clue as to why people gripe about reflective eyes. They work.

eyes are always good to have even with lvlX
a eye will prevent the gun from firing
while lvl x fires and hits the ball which could still cause a chop

better to not have it fire then chance a break.

[Mosfet]

In My opinion if the eyes work even only partially, I'd much rather have them then not.
Break beam is definately the best way to go cause of 100% chance of ball detection versus reflective. But reflective is definately much better than no eyes at all.
I'd even take a COPS/Sensi system over any marker without eyes.

[VFX_Fenix]

Wow I just figured that I get about 900 shots (1 halo b=160, 2 Dye locklids=320, 3 32* pods= 420) for a 45/45 fill on my A4. But how do you figure out the amount of shots you get for x ci? I got an A college Calculus but dont see the equations you used. But I guess that is pretty good.

It's actually just simple division.... x/y (shots/ci) = Shots per Ci. 900/45 = 20 shots per ci from a full 45/45. If you really wanted to be technical you could determine the volume of air that's released durring a given shot and use the ideal gas law to determine the new volume and pressure in the tank, or simply take the integral of the ideal gas formula between full psi and "chuff" psi. Or something like that lol P1V1 = P2V2, PV=nRT, I dunno, take your pick and crank some math!

[Vash-HT]

Break beam is definately the best way to go cause of 100% chance of ball detection versus reflective
Not true, in the past 2 times ive played guess which guns eyes stopped working? thats right, both of the kids DM4s on our teams eyes stopped reading paint alltogether.

[Mosfet]

I started off at U.C. Davis as an Aerospace Engineer, so back then I'd have taken the technical method of approach...
But I graduated there as a Sociology of Law major, so I'll take the x/y :P

Vash.
Thats 100% if the eyes are functioning properly.
Were their eyes dirty? Did they have pinched wires? Connections good? How do you know it wasn't some sort of malfunction inherent with what they did. Two markers of the same model do not represent all models.
Both markers being DM4's I'd give the guess that it was a marker malfunction to do with that model, and/or user error.

As for your refuting that break beam is not better than reflective, theres this argument.

Ignoring hardware malfunctions such as pinched wires, and faulty software logic, There is no way that a ball will not be detected by break beam eyes unless the ball were transparent which is never the case.

Given the same situation for Reflective, there is a greater chance that the reflective will mis-read certain colors of paint. Check out the eblade readings or the Halo for this.

Given these factors, I'd take break beam any day over reflective.

In all the times I've played I've never seen anyones DM4's eyes fail on them.

[evan123]

You making that statement is kinda ironic...

Would I shoot a Shocker? Sure... would have to get it dirt cheap though. I'd be putting in the newest bolt kit for efficiency, putting on a new reg instead of the craptastic vert maxflo, then dropping in a predator 2 board for the breakbeam eyes.

I am just wondering why is that an ironic statement. When your eyes are equipped with eyes, why wouldn't you use them? Seems perfectly logical to me.

Mindjob: read my first reply, i said the same thing.

Fragtek: I would have to disagree the vision eyes are good, just not the best.

[tony3]

I am here to give you the best unbiased opinion on the shocker I can. I don't dislike smart parts but I don't love them. I have owned almost every other type of highend on the market.

Lets start with the basic's.

Price: 825 with vision. Very very good price for what you are getting. Most guns similar to the shocker are going to be in the 900-1000 dollar range. Not many guns come to mind in that range besides Dye Matrixes.

Overall looks: It is up to you whether you like it or not. It has simple looks that many find appealing. Very easy to clean the body off.

Trigger: The trigger on shockers has some pluses and negatives. First off, it is a pretty narrow trigger. Not the fattest on the market. You can upgrade to the Nasty X trigger if you arent satisfied. My biggest pet-peeve with this trigger is the set screws they used. They used .50 metric screws. Very very small screws, and the only metric screws on the whole gun. Didn't make a lot of sense to me. Adjusting the pull tension on it, requires you to completely remove the circuit board which can be a hassle sometimes, but it's not bad. Overall, you can make the pull on the gun very very nice.

Electronics: The electronic part of the gun is alittle sketchy. Smart parts used pretty weak ribbon cables. The actual thought of electronics is very good. They fit alot of stuff into a pretty small area. Which is good and bad. Good-Cuts down on the size of gun, Bad-easy to break stuff and jam stuff in. The on off switch is pretty pimp, it is clear and the led light on the gun is in the switch. The gun uses two little buttons to adjust the ROF and dwell settings. The stock shocker board is plenty fast for most people. A cheaper solution if you want a new one with debounce settings and all that fancy stuff is get the new dynasty tadao board, it is 130 bucks. If you arent content with the board or eyes, you can get the predator 2 installed. The vision in my opinion is great. Worked fine for me. Hell, I used a revvy 50% of the time on my dynasty shocker and never broke a ball.

Inline Maxflo reg-My biggest complaint, I wish they would of added a spot for a guage, but I'll live. You can always buy a new VA from NDZ with a guage spot. Otherwise the reg has pretty good consistency, +/- 5 is what I was getting. Definitely not lacking but not exceeding expectations.

Overall Cleaning etc: Shocker is a very simple gun, unscrew the back cap, and push the other internals out the front of the gun. Similar to a matrix. Clean all the orings off, regrease them with dow33(only) and you are good. Carry a spare oring kit around, just incase one blows, never know with spool valve guns. If you take care of the gun and regulator by lubing them a lot, you will never have a problem.

Stock barrel: 14in Matching All American. Not much more you can ask for in a stock barrel(unless its an ultralite ;) . Definitely doesn't need replacing.

I'm not going to give it a final rating because that would just be stupid. Honestly, the Shocker and Dye matrix are the best guns in the 850-700 range.

[FragTek]

I am just wondering why is that an ironic statement. When your eyes are equipped with eyes, why wouldn't you use them? Seems perfectly logical to me.

Mindjob: read my first reply, i said the same thing.

Fragtek: I would have to disagree the vision eyes are good, just not the best.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion :)

[BlackWeenie]

If vision works fine, why turn it off? What's the point of even having it if you're going to turn it off?

i usually dont bother because they made it so you have to push the button again after it boots up to turn on vision.

and to all the other stuff in your post: instead of making stupid smart a$$ comments because you dont like SP, why dont you do some research on the product before you start crying :cry::cry::cry: . this guy is asking whether or not this is a decent product, not whether or not you can make stupid immature posts.

[Lohman446]

What a joke, its made by SP so it must suck right

First off, FSDO seems to be an issue... if it sets for more than like five minutes - the first ball out will literally roll out of my barrel. Guess what, it has not impact on my style play so I dont care - though Im told it may be a lack of lube.

As for "its $800 it should be ready to go out of the box". The precious e-mag is how much.. and its not even LEGAL out of the box with hybrid mode. I like e-mags, I owned one for quite awhile, I still tech them but let's not go there.

Reflective eyes. The most reliable eye I have ever seen is a reflective eye. I watched a marker equipped with one empty a hopper at high rates of fire when no other marker was doing it that day. That included e-blades, timmies, my LX mag, shockers, Imps, and various other guns. Of course it was the industrial eye on a Sandridge F5 so...

The Shocker, the E-mag, and many many otehr guns are very functional markers, it all comes down to a matter of taste.

[ah137]

OK, I will give my .02 cents here.
The difference between the x-mag and shocker eye is this THE X-MAG EYE IS LOCATED IN THE BOTTOM OF THE BREACH.(where is should be.....think about it) Thats why its better. As far as I can tell it uses the same exact eye (part wise)

As far as software/logic the X-mag is not bad, I have done lots of testing with it. 15-20bps

Surprisingly everyone I know who has an X-mag does NOT use there eye. I will not play with out it turned on my emag. I as well think it is silly not to use it.

The X-mag eye is kind of a pain to set up, and will NOT work correctly with black paint!!. Period!!

Sorry I can't give you more in site on the 03shocker. A friend of mine had one and it never worked correctly, needless to say he sold it.

Hills

[Mosfet]

ok, its been a couple weeks, but thats a couple weeks I've had my new '04 Shocker now, and have fiddled with it. I have yet to actually play with it, so I can't say much for the eyes other than I dislike the logic.

For the eye logic part, I'll use a little programming talk. "Setting a bit" This is setting a flag or state.

The eye logic works by permanently setting a ready to shoot bit, and leaving it ready until the trigger is pulled, making it reset. The problem is that only firing resets the bit, not removing the ball.

On other markers the bit is set when a ball is in the breach, and reset when the ball is removed.
That means the board will only fire if a ball is in the breach.

On the Shocker if a ball falls in its sets the bit and is ready to fire. if the ball bounces halfway up the breach, it'll still fire. BOOO!


Now for the other stuff.
My price: $660 Shipped for a used '04 witth HE bolt, Clamping Rise, CP Reg (No Max Flow here) and Wave trigger
Weight: very light (untill you throw the halo on there :P )
FSDO: dont know yet, but i hear its a lube issue mostly on newer ones.
Chopping: Not sure yet, but this thing is basically a direct rip off of the Matrix. works like one, sounds like one, and you can stick your finger in the breach and fire just like one.


my impression: If you can get a used one with ups for around $660 like I did, then go for it!

[MaChu]

Eh, after playing with one for a couple of practices its nothing special. The trigger feels weird, the vision could be better, just the over all feel of it seemed cheap. I mean for $800 you could get a used Intimidator which is faster, better ACE and very air efficient.

[Lohman446]

[QUOTE=BlackWeenie]i usually dont bother because they made it so you have to push the button again after it boots up to turn on vision.
QUOTE]

On the rebound/nerve super Shocker board they fixed this idiotic idea. It boots into Vision mode.

[Mosfet]

Eh, after playing with one for a couple of practices its nothing special. The trigger feels weird, the vision could be better, just the over all feel of it seemed cheap. I mean for $800 you could get a used Intimidator which is faster, better ACE and very air efficient.

shoots faster or cycles faster? or do you have the magical 35bps Halo?
Although I agree on the better ACE logic.

For $800 you can also get a used freestyle which I would take any day over a timmy or a shocker, but why stop there? For $1000 you can get an Angel. but why stop there? For $1200 you can get a used '04 timmy. but why stop there?

The "for $140 more" argument is one of those it just keeps adding up arguments. Some people have to set a limit and can't go any higher.

For $660 the Shocker with ups I got was a great deal.
For $800 a used timmy is a good deal if its got ups.
For $1000 .....

Gotta compare many different factors. Price, performance, personal preference for size, etc, etc.
Me personally I'd go Freestyle any day over the Timmy, and went with the Shocker over a used GZ/classic timmies because I had a timmy and thought it was too big. Not my bag, baby. Awesome marker, but it just wasn't me..... although if I had the cash I'd definately go Russian Legion! :D