How to Become an AGD Dealer [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

SlartyBartFast

09-29-2004, 05:04 PM

I know that I should be contacting AGD directly, but I didn’t want to become one of the dozens of annoying callers they must get on a regular basis.
Having recently experienced an appalling attempt to purchase an AGD marker from local stores and distributors, it is obvious that my region could do with a pro-active AGD representative. Stores either didn’t know what I was talking about when enquiring about an RT, said they would find out pricing but never did, or quoted absolutely ridiculous MSRP from some distributors magazine.
Recent discussions on local websites shows a growing local interest, but without local sales and service players seem to gravitate to the markers available at the stores.
I have downloaded the dealer application from the Airgun website, but I was wondering if the requirements have changed recently and, regardless of whether the requirements have changed, what steps I must take to satisfy them.

from the “Airgun Designs Dealer Application”:
You MUST include: (1) a copy of your business license; and (2) a copy of your retail sales tax certificate, if required in your state/locality.
Locally, there are no requirements for individually owned businesses to have either a business licence or a federal or provincial sales tax number unless a minimum value of annual sales is attained. So I will not need to register a company unless I foresee surpassing the annual sales level as set by the federal and provincial governments.

from the “Airgun Designs Dealer Application”:
YOU MUST ALSO provide us with ONE of the following: (1) a photograph of your store; or (2) a flyer or brochure for your field; or (3) proof of a wholesale account with a major distributor. PLEASE DON’T OMIT THIS!
This is the one I have trouble with. I am currently neither a store or field, nor do I have an account with any distributors. At this point in time, I don’t have plans to offer other products as these are already readily available in local stores.
What is the arrangement with the various AGD dealers on AO? Do they all have registered businesses with “major distributor” accounts? Is a minimum annual sales amount required to become a dealer? Is there a minimum initial purchase required?
I’m certainly willing to make an initial investment in stock if that is required.

And some of the info on the Aigun website is seriously outdated.
Please Note: Airgun Designs does not sell any of its paintball markers on a retail basis (or factory direct). A pePlease Note: Airgun Designs does not sell any of its paintball markers on a retail basis (or factory direct). A person interested in purchasing any of our paintball markers should contact a dealer. If you need help finding a dealer in your area, you may call us during regular business hours. rson interested in purchasing any of our paintball markers should contact a dealer. If you need help finding a dealer in your area, you may call us during regular business hours.

Kevmaster

09-29-2004, 05:22 PM

You have to provide one of the former as proof of business as recognised by your local.

You have to provide one of the latter also to prove your a ligit business. Can you not take a picture of your store? Have you not printed one flier?

The object is to prevent people (likely such as you) who are not a "real" paintball retailer from attaining dealer status. They want people like you to call them and pay full MSRP.

The AO-AGD dealers are ligit storefronts.

BlackVCG

09-29-2004, 05:31 PM

Bad_Dog

09-29-2004, 06:06 PM

Well from talking to Tunaman; I know that his business is technically Mail Order...

but the fact that hes also an AGD Tech (can flash boards and such) and an AO Moderator... maby they pulled some strings for him :) He also told me that he has over 50 mags in stock on any given day... kinda cool if you ask me...

cphilip

09-29-2004, 09:10 PM

I can tell you that I had to obtain a Business license, construct a store and ally with a field. By constructing a store I had to convert almost half of my lower home structure (24X36 feet area) to accomadate it, and therefore pay taxes as a home business on that portion as well. Not only that but file monthly Tax reports on income and sales and yearly file a total tax report for the property taxes as a business. Finaly I just got to the point it was not worth it. And I can tell you that MANY of the people out there that claim to be dealers do not do it according to all rules and law. cutting corners to cut overhead and therefor making it impossible for people who do the overhead correctly to make any profit. There are plenty of ways to make MORE money for your effort than Paintball. Most of them involve you having a skill into the mix. Reselling and reconfiguring some bolt on paintball equipment and farming out stuff is not what I am referring to here. The profit margin is slim when you don't really do much to it but slap a few things on it and ship it out.

So for me its a rather lost cause. I just don't do it anymore and have not for some time now. I do some serious mechanical restorations on Vintage vehicles now that bring me GOBS more money than paintball equipment ever will. And do it at my leasure and all that. And it brings me MUCH more satisfaction because its all my work. Not just unbolting this and bolting on that. I mean its all artistic and problem solving. Work that is done with your hands that brings something back to like is way more valuable and satisfying than simple retailing ever will be. And this is purely that most times. However I must say we do have a couple of people here that work with thier hands and actualy do that artistic things. Thats cool. But selling as a dealer and just reconfiguring? Or just taking stuff other actually make and slapping it on and calling it yours? Not so much fun at all to me. Easy to do but... just not satisfying at all. And not very profitable for you time. Want to make like 3 bucks an hour? Sure.... do it then.

But I seriously doubt most internet online dealers are completely legit in their dealings with their local authorities and the IRS as well. But thats their problem to deal with some day. In the mean time I can advise you to stay out of the Paintball business. It's nasty. Peoples true uglyness shows through in this one more than most. However those few you meet that are honest as Abe are worth it if you ever can find them. There are a few good peps out there. And AGD dealers include some of them.

cphilip

09-29-2004, 09:16 PM

He's got a point. I'd like to know what the real answer is to all of this.

For example, I know Roguefactor doesn't have a retail store that people come walking into. He's just an online dealer. So how did he surpass the "provide visual proof of your business"?

Same goes for Shartley and Tunaman. They are both AGD dealers and as far as I know they just sell stuff online.

From what I gather and I could be completely wrong, but it sounds like Slarty wants to stock AGD stuff to sell to people in his area to get more AGD products out, but doesn't want to be a full time dealer selling all the other manufacturers stuff because all the other stores in the area already sell that stuff.

Shartley is not an AGD dealer as far as I know. I think your confusing AGD with AO. And knowing Sam I can tell you he is straight with his legal stuff. He was in busness on his own before he dabbled in any AO stuff.

Tuna is part of PBX. And I also know he keeps his stuff straight.

I dunno Rouges situation at all so I will not comment on that. He can.

Mastema

09-29-2004, 09:54 PM

There already is a AGD reseller in the Montreal Area.

It's "Centre Recreatif Les Patriotes"

Call them if you need anything.

1-877-743-4977

CoolHand

09-30-2004, 01:37 AM

In the mean time I can advise you to stay out of the Paintball business. It's nasty. Peoples true uglyness shows through in this one more than most. However those few you meet that are honest as Abe are worth it if you ever can find them. There are a few good peps out there. And AGD dealers include some of them.

Truer words have never been spoken.

When I run across a good contact, or a subcontractor that will actually hold up their end of a deal, I am absolutely tickled ****less. Mostly because I've had to get screwed by ten others to find that one great guy. When money is involved, people get less than cordial, real quick.

My advice to you is this:

#1 - Don't do business with anyone you like. Ever. This includes extendend family, and friends of family. There will always come a time when a disagreement will force you to choose between letting them screw you, or making them angry (and by extension several other people you like too). Now, before you get up in arms, I'm not talking straight up retail, I'm talking about partnerships, and real "Business", not sales.

#2 - Don't try to be everyone's friend, but don't be unlikeable either. If you're too easy going, people will eventually feel the need to take advantage of you, but people would rather deal with people they like (in a casual sense), so don't be too grumpy either. Firm but polite is the way my dad always put it.

#3 - Don't always take people at face value. I generally try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but once I see a few tell tale signs, I brace for impact. Every once in a while I get it wrong and end up with egg on my face, but usually, I save myself from getting it put to me.

#4 - Do follow the rules as best you can. There is an old saying - "Only two things in life are constant - Death and Taxes." You can dodge neither forever.

#5 - Don't ever under any circustances come to existing dealers looking for advice on how to start up a business (or in this case an account) that will ultimately compete with them. We will tell you how the business really is, and ruin your outlook on paintball as a whole. :rofl:

[b]You read it! You can't UNread it! [/BOOMING VOICE]

:ninja: Advice

shartley

09-30-2004, 06:45 AM

Since my name has been involked ;) I will add my .02 as well.

What Tunaman, Cphilip, and CoolHand said is true.

As for my AGD Dealership status, Cphilip is correct. I am an “AO Dealer” but not an official “AGD Dealer”. People need to not confuse selling AGD products with being an official dealer of their products. My situation is much like Tunaman’s in that aspect…. and I will leave it at that.

And yes, Cphilip is correct, my business affairs are straight with the legal stuff. And anyone who has watched these types of threads in the past know that I often point folks in the right direction to get the information THEY need to do it right in their States. But Phil is also correct that a good portion of “online” businesses are not completely legit, and some not even close to being so.

They are also correct about the business being ugly. I have dealt with many industries over the years and I have not seen the level of cliques, mean spirited folks, ignoring of laws, and all sorts of other things that would shock the average player (or maybe not) that I see in the Paintball Industry.

And sales are rough. Ever hear “feast of famine”? Well, that is how it goes most of the time. Paintball sales also run in cycles dictated by the playing season and major events. So this must be taken into account.

And because of this, competition is fierce. Building a loyal customer base is important, as well as offering “other” services or aspects of your business that others may not have. What makes you different from all the rest? What draws a particular customer base to your door (be it brick and mortar or internet)?

Folks also need to realize that the majority of businesses that start up (in ANY industry) FAIL. And that goes for businesses that are not even legal. This is a fact, so be prepared.

Well, I have work to do, so must be running along. I hope some of this information (along with what has already been posted by others) helps.

SlartyBartFast

09-30-2004, 10:42 AM

Thanks for the replys everyone.

You must provide 1 of the 3. Not a difficult task. And actually easy to provide all 3 if you are legitimate and wish to.

Well, actually you're not correct on that one. In Quebec you can be a completely legitimate and legal "business" as long as it's single owner and generates less than about 30,000 a year. You just fill out all income and costs on an attachement to your personal income tax report. After that point, you need to register with the two levels of government for sales tax ID numbers and collect sales tax and file sales tax reports.

And Mastema, thanks for the pointer to "Les Patriotes". When did they start? I've only started looking at www.paintballmontreal.com and had noticed them mentioned.

rkjunior303

09-30-2004, 10:46 AM

SlartyBartFast

09-30-2004, 10:58 AM

#5 - Don't ever under any circustances come to existing dealers looking for advice on how to start up a business (or in this case an account) that will ultimately compete with them. We will tell you how the business really is, and ruin your outlook on paintball as a whole.

:rofl: :rofl:

True. But I figure that I wouldn't really be competition to any AO Dealers as there are currency, customs, and shipping issues taht make it difficult for them to deal with Canadian orders.

I'll be calling "les patriotes". I might be too late in my quest... :cry:

SlartyBartFast

09-30-2004, 11:00 AM

As for SlartyBartFast becoming a dealer...that's great! AGD needs dealers now more than ever so power to ya! Let me know if you need any help with it!;)

I'd probably need all the help you'd like to give. :cheers:

Guess I got to start with a call to AGD though.

GA Devil

09-30-2004, 11:19 AM

wow funny sometimes how a simple question can form such a debate between people who are trying to do the same thing and honestly shouldnt be fighting each other but helping. The 1 totally true thing ive read in theis tho is how ugly the industry is. Things happen between people that are unheard of and make no sense but fact of the matter is it gets real ugly real fast. Ive had my outs with a few people even here in AO but again ive made very good business deals here in AO as well. Just my 42 cents worth.

SlartyBartFast

09-30-2004, 11:24 AM

You can be a totally legitimate business in the US as a individual doing business as sole proprietor by those factors, doesnt mean you are a legitimate retail(or paintball) business. Paintball manufacturers wish to sell to businesses, not individuals.

I think you are confusing "legitimate paintball business" with "legitimate and legal business". Technically, running a booth at the flea market or a corner hot dog stand is a legitimate business. Just not ones that Paintball Manufacturers want to sell to. Which is why the rules are what they are.

There's a bit of arguing semantics in there. You're legitimate "retail" the moment you sell a product to a consumer (Retailer: An individual or firm that sells goods and services directly to the consumer).

I understand that a paintball manufacturer doesn't want to sell just a marker or two to an individual. So I can understand having sales level requirements or basing the wholesale price on rebates calculated by sales volume. I've seen wholesale catalogs that base unit price on the size of each order as well as on accumulated orders.

If a paintball manufacturer only wants to have the product sold by someone selling a complete range of paintball products, then that may be to their advantage. Obviously for AGD it has not worked as no store in the area even seems to know who they are. Given their current standing in the market, a specialised and enthusiastic seller will do far more for them than the insider controlled bigbox distribution networks.

09-30-2004, 11:24 AM

I have considered this for a number of years now and to be quite honest, I would love to do it but I don't think it is profitible compared to the time I would put in. My problem is I would love to participate in the process and maybe i can do those types of things in the future such as message board moderation (done this in the past and its fun sometimes), beta test a product, or bounce a few ideas around for future products.

I really enjoy the Customer service aspect of sales, however I am not a big fan of pushy ugly people, especially when it is something I do "for fun". At the end of the day, like phil said, I get a larger return from other things like graduate school...

Besides,
I think all of the AO guys do there best to give us a fair shake on prices. I'd love to rep AGD and AKA at my local field, by bringing a spread of thier gear for sale, but with the excellent dealership network we have here its just not worth it. eh..... maybe ill just put stickers all over my truck and hopper ;)

shartley

09-30-2004, 12:14 PM

Yeah, semantics. For practical purposes the dictionary definition does not equate to the real world definition established by companies.
I disagree with that as a person who has dealt with businesses in many industries for a very long time. I read your interpretation of what you think a legitimate business is, and you are wrong.

Whether a manufacturer wants to limit selling its products to a certain tier in the business world or not does not make those in the “lower” tiers any less “legitimate”.

You can be a totally legitimate business in the US as a individual doing business as sole proprietor by those factors, doesnt mean you are a legitimate retail(or paintball) business. Paintball manufacturers wish to sell to businesses, not individuals.

I think you are confusing "legitimate paintball business" with "legitimate and legal business". Technically, running a booth at the flea market or a corner hot dog stand is a legitimate business. Just not ones that Paintball Manufacturers want to sell to. Which is why the rules are what they are.

As you can clearly see, you are saying that if an individual owns a legitimate business in the eyes of the LAW, and the IRS, unless they are not an “individual” they are not a legitimate paintball business. To say this is simply preposterous at best,

If a product is being sold legally to customers, and it is being sold by what the LAW determines is a legitimate business, it IS a legitimate business. Period. And that includes businesses in the paintball industry.

Again, if a manufacturer does not want to sell its products to a certain level of business, that is up to them. But it is by far not the determining factor of what is and is not a “legitimate paintball business”. Do not confuse what some manufactures may set for themselves as guidelines for wholesale sales and what constitutes a legitimate business.

Automaggot68

09-30-2004, 12:23 PM

Usually I would say something along the lines of, 'I can't believe it got ugly this quickly',but when reviewing the people who posted-I can. This seems to happen a lot. I think some of us should sit this one out, and let TK answer it.

shartley

09-30-2004, 12:24 PM

Exactly, so its the businesses that decides what is legitimate. Looks like thats what I said...
Wrong, sorry. A business decides who they want to sell to, not who is legitimate. They decide what LEVEL of business they want to sell to, not whether a level is “legitimate” or not. That is decided by laws.

While you are clearly not wanting to admit there is a distinct difference, there is.

Automaggot68

09-30-2004, 12:32 PM

Wrong again Sam. Id argue with ya, but whats the point. Its a lesson of futility with someone who never admits their wrong(even in the face of proof).

I havent seen any proof yet. Please Learn me.
Edit: Yep, just went back and read everything and yep. It's just argueing.

cphilip

09-30-2004, 12:33 PM

....I get a larger return from other things like graduate school...

You Sir are wise beyond your years.... Be cool, stay in school.

There ain't no easy money out there.

Automaggot68

09-30-2004, 12:36 PM

You Sir are wise beyond your years.... Be cool, stay in school.

There ain't no easy money out there.

But Crime pays .......it pays very well..just dont get caught, lol

[/end joke]

shartley

09-30-2004, 12:41 PM

Wrong again Sam. Id argue with ya, but whats the point. Its a lesson of futility with someone who never admits their wrong(even in the face of proof).
Proof? What proof? You posted things that are not only wrong, but don’t stand up to the slightest rational thinking.

Just because you say so, it is not “proof”.

And I am not arguing with you, I am pointing our facts. You on the other hand have not posted either proof, nor facts.

So with that, good day.

And good luck SBF, it looks like you may have a good corner on the market up there and I wish you the best.

CoolHand

09-30-2004, 12:51 PM

that's one thing everyone needs to look at, before even answering the questions. Quebec laws are different than US laws, when it comes to businesses (i assume). Although, the input could be good guidance, it may not come into play at all when it boils down to the actual business law of it.

That is a good point, I didn't even see that he was in Canada.

However, upon review, I think my advice still stands . . . . except maybe for #5 (that was just for fun anyway :rofl: )

That'll teach me to read more carefully.

Automaggot68

09-30-2004, 12:57 PM

Which facts did you post Sam?

Dude. Just Stop. Lets all Just stop.

steveg

09-30-2004, 01:01 PM

Slarty.
I,m in the process of registering a Business here in NB, it's going to cost me about
$170.00. the tax number is your friend if you are going to resell stuff buying wholesale
helps a lot :wow: .

It seems too me that until Tom himself weights in on this one the rest is
just a bunch of noise , accept for the friendly support., :cool:

SlartyBartFast

09-30-2004, 04:06 PM

Good luck with starting your business Slarty, and thanks for the post its been fun.

Seems I missed quite the exchange while I was away. :bounce: (Is it just me or does there seem to be a number of posts missing? :ninja: )

Thanks guys. I'll contact AGD for the REAL details.

But, those of you that do run small businesses I'd love to hear any secrets of the trade or pitfalls to look out for.

I'm really not looking to make gobs of money. Like I said, I doubt I want to register for sales tax because it's a filing hassle (taxes paid, price paid for merchandise, price obtained, taxes owed, all on a quarterly basis?). Steveg is right that it may provide the magic secret handshake to immediately have wholesale prices, but it's a lot of time and paperwork that can be legally avoided. The 100 bucks or so is just the beginning. But, I thought that the tax number bit was only 30-50. Registering the company is another step that has piles of paperwork all of its own. :(

Seems like too much bother for something I'd like to do for the interest factor. Unless by some miracle I actually do make a gob of money. :rofl:

But if that's the situation it's a problem I could live with. :clap:

I'm looking at a cabin sitting on 150,000 sq ft of land by a river and all I can keep thinking is, Which one first?
- Trebuchet
- Archery range
- Private Painball field
- Air cannon
- etc, etc, etc

(Then reality hits. The septic system HAS to be first. :rofl: )

cphilip

09-30-2004, 06:09 PM

It seems too me that until Tom himself weights in on this one the rest is
just a bunch of noise , accept for the friendly support., :cool:

Well... some of us are experienced at "BEING" AGD dealers. So I guess if you want to discount that then go ahead and live in whatever world it is you want to live in....

Getting a license is the easy part.... as I told you. Keeping it is the hard part. Fraught with hidden work and expenses.

You can contact AGD for what you call the "real details" all you want. But they want you to sell. And should want you to sell. What you got here is a crash course from the other side of that coin. But its not what you want to hear so I guess its not "real" enough for you. So good luck to you. Sorry I even shared it with you. Since you don't want to know then forget it!

And let me just tell you. Your NOT going to get wholesale pricing. And people like National are going to eat your pricing for lunch. THEY get Wholesale and more often than not get PRIORITY on stock and can sell at what you pay for the darn stuff. Even if you get it sold you gotta have it in stock or the buyer is going to move on. And so often that happens. So welcome to the real world kids.... Big gets bigger. Little gets squashed. And so it is in life. And in retail.

smilestyler

09-30-2004, 08:45 PM

But, those of you that do run small businesses I'd love to hear any secrets of the trade or pitfalls to look out for.

I'm really not looking to make gobs of money. Like I said, I doubt I want to register for sales tax because it's a filing hassle (taxes paid, price paid for merchandise, price obtained, taxes owed, all on a quarterly basis?). Steveg is right that it may provide the magic secret handshake to immediately have wholesale prices, but it's a lot of time and paperwork that can be legally avoided. The 100 bucks or so is just the beginning. But, I thought that the tax number bit was only 30-50. Registering the company is another step that has piles of paperwork all of its own. :(

I own and operate a small business, and I have some advise for you;

1.Don't expect to make a living, especially in Canada. You will get undersold, count on that. Been there done that.

2.Get a GST number. A local Business lisense. And a Registered name. You will have to remit taxes on a quartely basis, and you will have to file income tax. Or else your business will be over real quick.

If you need any info on how to do the above things, PM me and I can get you started.

steveg

10-01-2004, 07:23 AM

Cphilips given the tone of this thread so far it doesn't suprise me that you misunderstood
what I was trying to say :cry: What I was trying to say is that Tom alone would deside
who He wants to do business with, not anyone else. Buy the way I was including YOU
amoungst the "helpful advice" crowd. What I said was not aimed at you or anyone
else that had positive advise to offer Slarty (including don't do it!), and I
humbly apologise for not expressing myself clearly :tard: .

Slarty I don't know about Quebec but NB's business registration is a Single sheet of paper.
there is a $55 name search fee(a 5 min task done over the phone with a credit card and an email address)
and then a $110 fee for registering the name.
Incorporation is a whole differant story thought.
The $30 000/4 quarters exception applies here as well.
By the way I'm not getting into the paintball business just formalizing the business that
I already have.(people keep asking me for my GST\HST # :cuss: ) and I do want to
have access to wholesale pricing .

One final thing Phil my world includes asking for a bit of clarification of what another
person ment before I jump down their throat. :cheers:

SlartyBartFast

10-01-2004, 10:35 AM

I own and operate a small business, and I have some advise for you;

1.Don't expect to make a living, especially in Canada. You will get undersold, count on that. Been there done that.

2.Get a GST number. A local Business lisense. And a Registered name. You will have to remit taxes on a quartely basis, and you will have to file income tax. Or else your business will be over real quick.

If you need any info on how to do the above things, PM me and I can get you started.

Well, I wasn't really interested in 'making a living' at it. And I was interested in representing AGD because they seem to be 'out of the loop' with the big distributors, so their dealers have a better chance of being able to compete.

As for #2, I'll go that route if I absolutely have to. And thanks for the offer of help.

But given the state of the paintball industry, I’m wondering if my original “part-time” income idea of purchasing a couple of vending machines might not be more worthwhile. Certainly seems to be a better margin on reselling softdrinks and coffee. The work wouldn’t be terribly interesting or rewarding though.

The reality right now is that home renovations and the "cottage project" may just decimate my funds and free time. :)

I think in any case I’m going to have to slack-off AO and concentrate more on the local boards to learn the local market and build recognition, regardless of my final decision.

SlartyBartFast

10-05-2004, 04:48 PM

Figured I owed everone who so generously offered their help, guidance, and more an update on my status.

At a recent job fair, I ran into a group called SAJE (Services d'aide aux jeunes entrepreneurs). In English, it means they give help to young entrepreuneurs.

They offer a two night a week, 11 week course in starting a new business that costs only $125. Then, if you want to go further they match startup funds and even get you income suppliment government benefits to start your business.

So, I figure I'd be stupid not to take the courses. Nothing to lose really. If I don't start a business I have a real nifty business training certificate to add to my resume.