wow... just amazing.

[E r y k]

http://www.air-powered.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=21526 :wow:

look what i found over at air-powered! :eek:

[LaW]

It mentions legal issues, wondering if this is the cause of the issues with the hAir trigger?

[Chronobreak]

:looks at rrfireblade :confused:

cool though!

[Sac]

WE WANT ANSWERS!!!

lol, that is cool for cocker owners tho.

[OmniM]

geez...???? ... um.... Fireblade?

[FreakBaller12]

guess who's going to be on top?
AGD and WGP just like the good ole days!
Just you wait and see, I'm calling it now. :ninja:

[DiSoRdeR]

I cant watch it :cry:

[p8ntball365]

i cant watch it either tell em to make one using quicktime so i can watch.

[ojhspyro89]

Looks just like the hair to me but stuck in a hinge frame. Thats pretty sweet but all this real fast mech stuff is freakin me out. The hair should go out before that thing then they will be the first :headbang:

[Vash-HT]

If you read the whole thing, he says they were developing it before the hAir, and are proving it on legal grounds, so if anything this'll prolly make it take longer to release the hAir =/.

[eNder159]

either way..itll bring paintball where it should be AGD vs WGP

[MiniSpdRcr]

Hm...AGD will win.

[thecavemankevin]

so now i know what fireblade was talking about when he said some pretty amazing projects he is working on. it would be nice if deadlywind could work out some form of licensing agreement with who ever holds the rights to this.....that is if this is what is holding the hair up. afterall i know tom and Bud are friends.

[Vash-HT]

you're right, it really would be stupid if both frames were held up because of legal battles. If I were either company id want to get this out as fast as possible.

[Meph]

Awwww c'mon we all know it was really G-Force who came up with it first!



Yaaaaaaaaaaay

[Enos Shenk]

Why do i have a bad feeling about this and my work on carbines...

[adt501]

pro teams history of leading the way with new technologies? ummm, ok, to each his own :rolleyes:

[The Action Figure]

im gettin 1 for sure

[rabidchihauhau]

adt501 - yes, our almost 15 year history of introducing new technologies to the industry:
PTP pioneered the entire concept of aftermarket gun bodies (starting with the VMX for VM68s); we introduced the world-renowned CAR68 military trainer, one of the first, if not the first, military simulator based on paintball guns; we introduced microregs, internally rifled barrels, the E-Mag is based on a PTP patent sold to AGD, we developed some of the first 'sear-tripper' electronics for blowback guns, first coiled remote lines, then the first coiled remotes rated to 3000 psi working pressure. A whole host of products for military and less-than-lethal applications. JPL has even consulted with us concerning the use of micro-regulators and high-pressure gas for use in in-system manuvering units.

A lot of the new concepts we've introduced over the years has not been credited to Pro-Team, but that doesn't change the fact that we very frequently do it first.

[G3PB]

The winning side will need pre-existing art. Anyone here been around long enough to remember Al Mollick? He was doing PGrips and EGrips in '97-'98......even if his stuff only half-assed worked, it's older than either one. A few months back, he said he didn't care about the DeadlyWind stuff but way back when, he said he had spoken to PTP about his frames....if he's still alive, he may be pissed, or he may not care. Then again, things may get interesting.......

[xXHavokXx]

Too much work. Too much thinking. Turn on, mow heads, turn off.

[rabidchihauhau]

G3,

the trick to gaining a valid patent is that you have to disclose at least one WORKING embodiment of the design.

[G3PB]

True enough. His did work, I saw it...and what I'm hearing from interested parties, there were others, as far back as '95.

[tony3]

Legal dispute a comin'? Sure sounds like it. I wish companies could just put stuff on the market and let patent stuff slide, but hey, you need to put food on the table and need to get as much money as you can. I completely understand.

[RRfireblade]

:looks at rrfireblade :confused:



WE WANT ANSWERS!!!


geez...???? ... um.... Fireblade?

Um.......yeah........I know what your thinkin'........sorry 'bout that. :ninja: I think it was obvious why.

I still love you guys tho. :D

Ah....you know what I mean. ;)

[Sac]

ok since nobody else will say it...

is this the hold up with Deadlywind and the hAir?

[Chronobreak]

i dont think theres going to be a direct answer to that, but if its not said that it isnt...... ;)

[thorn]

ok. lets get some things straight fireblade or whatever.

1. you are not yet making a mag version, yet it shows one in your sig.

2. how much will this cost? what makes your frame any better than the dw hairs?

3. none of our support (i think and hope im speaking for all of AO'ers) will go towards you for now because your highest priority is NOT for a mag frame, you are holding back a company from makinf more great mag products, and worst off all, this could be the last great chance for mags. u better come up with something better, faster, and cheaper, that comes out earlier than dw's, or none of our sympathy will go to you, because we are dedicated to our automags, not cockers.

again, i hope i am speaking for everyone on this forum. if u disagree with me, just post it.

[Blennidae]

Now this post TK made makes sense, regarding the hAir trigger.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1608017&postcount=31

[LaW]

ok. lets get some things straight fireblade or whatever.

1. you are not yet making a mag version, yet it shows one in your sig.

2. how much will this cost? what makes your frame any better than the dw hairs?

3. none of our support (i think and hope im speaking for all of AO'ers) will go towards you for now because your highest priority is NOT for a mag frame, you are holding back a company from makinf more great mag products, and worst off all, this could be the last great chance for mags. u better come up with something better, faster, and cheaper, that comes out earlier than dw's, or none of our sympathy will go to you, because we are dedicated to our automags, not cockers.

again, i hope i am speaking for everyone on this forum. if u disagree with me, just post it.


You sir are not speaking for me... I think you were pretty harsh with your comments, and its always a bad move to actually "speak" for a group when you have no idea what other people think, your not us.

The release of DW's is dependant on legal issues being resolved, we can make speculation as to whom the legal issues are with but come on I support any new technology mag or not. There is a chance that the hAir trigger NEVER gets released... Sure its easy to just take the stance that oh if its not for the mag it doesnt get our support.

[RRfireblade]

ok. lets get some things straight fireblade or whatever.

1. you are not yet making a mag version, yet it shows one in your sig.

2. how much will this cost? what makes your frame any better than the dw hairs?

3. none of our support (i think and hope im speaking for all of AO'ers) will go towards you for now because your highest priority is NOT for a mag frame, you are holding back a company from makinf more great mag products, and worst off all, this could be the last great chance for mags. u better come up with something better, faster, and cheaper, that comes out earlier than dw's, or none of our sympathy will go to you, because we are dedicated to our automags, not cockers.

again, i hope i am speaking for everyone on this forum. if u disagree with me, just post it.

Ouch. That stings a little.

Let's go right ahead and get a few things straight.

If nothing else, I think I have been a Humongous Mag supporter both on the field,on these boards as well as many other boards that maintain a Mag presence no matter how small AND in business matters in a variety of capacities.

I'll have you know that the Mag version of this frame was MY first priority and something I pushed from the begining. It was basically the catalist for this whole project getting started and my taking it on.It also just happens to be the FIRST frame that I designed and built as a prototype.

Don't you dare question MY allegiance to the Automag unless you have some serious reason to do so.If it was within my control, and unfortunately it is not, the Mag version would be in all your hands right now. But guess what, everything doesn't always work out the way you want it to sometimes. If you haven't learned that yet, you will.

Just so you know, I get 'PAID' .....as in my full time job,my lively hood, how I support my family,with what I get offered to work on be it this frame or any number of parts and accessories that come my way,most of which no one will ever know I had anything to do with just so the person who writes that check can say, "Hey, Look what 'we' just came up with".Along with that I have the glamorous job of running daily production of guess what.....more parts and accessories that go on other companies markers. Like I said, you do what you have to to get 'paid'.

Now a little more facts to 'get straight'......

I hate to be the one to educate you on the obvious but who do you think is going to sell more products.....whether it be frames or otherwise. Up against pretty much anyone else in the entire industry, AGD loses. We sold something like twenty THOUSAND of a single particular product since we started building and selling that product and we're likely to get close to that figure this last year alone. Are you going to turn all that down to sell 100-200 Mag peices in the same time frame? Yeah, I didn't thing so. I'm sorry but it's a fact and when your pay check is on the line, you need to learn those lessons fast. Now that doesn't mean you or "WE" Mag guys get left out, it simply means "WE" are not going to be the priority of MOST parts manufactureres.It also means that if your a die hard Mag fan, you bettter have a ton of patients.That applies the AGD products as well and you all know it.

So.......

Either support us or don't. I can't change what you deceide no matter what "I" do,I don't have control over everything I'm in contact with,sorry. Some people will simply form opinions based on what's important to themselves as I have to do. Beyond that I have only to worry about myself and my family. If that's a problem for 'you' than simply stated, that's your problem.

But guess what, if you shoot a Mag and need some help I will 'ALWAYS' be there to lend a hand, a part, or what ever it takes for you or any other fellow Magger and it won't matter a hill 'o beans to me if you refuse support me in return. I'm just like that. ;)

Therefore, good day sir.

Jay.

[RRfireblade]

I never said paid in cash. :D

You'll have to come over for my famous Diablo Stew. ;)

[thecavemankevin]

i for one just want the hybrid mech frame to come out.....sorry to say it i don't think i care much who develops it. While i really love DW's stuff and wish them the most luck in the world. after all they have been a great driving force in the aftermarket segment of magdum.

However, fireblade has been very great to the mag force too....while most of you only know of his fireblade trigger (which is by far the best emag trigger out), i knew he worked for PTP....which is in turn a great driving force for the industry and magdum as well. Furthermore, fireblade and i have had several great interactions and because of this he is one of my favorite AO members out there, and i always read his posts when i see them.

while i would love the mag frame to come out ASAP, i do accept that it isn't in the next few months likely to happen. If a cocker frame comes out first...so be it...it just means we are getting closer to the mag frame.


Good luck to both companies and i hope there can be a happy medium where both bennefit without quarels.

ps. i have an extra xvalve just sitting waiting for the hybrid mag frame when it does come out.

[Chronobreak]

even if the hair doesnt come out from what i dunerstand and from whats been posted a mag version is soon to come :D :dance: i ahte to say it but if its the same thing i dont really care if its from colin or this guy(no offence colin we still love you ;) ) and colin diddnt know that it already existed as either way it was a great littel gadget to invent.

rrfireblade apparently does alot mroe than make those e-mag triggers :p

i diddnt persoanaly know you did so much work..guess you dont until you hear soemthing like this.

either way im sure us mag owners arent going to be left out in the wind on this ;)

rrfireblade-keep up the good work sir :hail:

[Chronobreak]

oh and found this on pbn i think it should be read before any fingers are pointed in vaine

"This Autococker frame will be for Mags also
Just a little sneek peek of something in the works you should see pretty soon, I hope.

Excuse the length and quality of the Vid, all I have here is my digital camera and and a tiny memory card but I think it's makes the point.
this thread is getting alot of attention on the cocker board but now it is being said this has been used for a Mag and you won't believe it!
Anyway.....this is an all mechanical trigger frame bolted on a bone stock SS Autococker. It's adjustable to under 1mm of trigger pull length and under 1oz of trigger pull weight. It's been mechanicaly tested to be able to cycle the marker at ~25cps with the stock 3way being the only real limitation there. On a 'Karnivore' bodied 'Cocker, using one of my intregal and proprietary 4ways to cycle the ram, it's been over 35cps and there's room for little more than that.

Don't forget, this is a mechanical frame/marker. There are NO electronics used at all.

I'll try and get some better vids soon.

http://premium.uploadit.org/rrfireb...P-Bladed-3A.WMV

http://www.air-powered.com/index.ph...=21526&st=0

Whatch think?



This is now an official response to your questions direct from [email protected] (where you can send email inquiries if you would like).

The autococker assisted trigger system you are all talking about is the result of developing Pro-Team Products' newly granted patent for an Assisted Trigger system.

This patent will publish on October 12th of this year (available for viewing: Please note that this patent is not yet published, so searching will not yeild any results until after 10/12/04.)

The concepts and ideas claimed in that patent are the result of earlier work done by Pro-Team Products; the patent was filed for in 2000, giving it the earliest date for such claims.

The patent was written to be as broad as possible (that's good patent work) and includes methods for achieving high rates of fire with pneumatic markers such as pneumatics, electronics, magnetics, electro-magnets and hybrids of all of those.

Again, this patent was originally applied for in 2000, which fact ought to lay to rest any question of copying, originality, 'legal issues' and etc.

Pro-Team is currently in the final development phases of a variety of versions of this concept; you've already seen the autococker version. Pretty soon video of the mag version and the blowback semi-auto version will be made available (and man, that thing rocks like you literally wouldn't believe!!!)

Our major problem with the system to date as been the lack of a feed system that can keep up with the upper rates of fire; unfortunately, in order to test and perfect the prototypes, we've had to 'dumb the system down' to the (now relatively slow) feed rates currently available.

Lest anyone question the claims in the patent in regards to other designs that they have seen or heard about, there are additional applications in the works, the detail of which is not and will not be made publicly available until they issue.

As to why it took so long for this patent to grant - who knows. We've seen far more complicated applications grant in 6 months, so go figure.

Pro-Team Products is currently negotiating agreements with several companies; interested parties are directed to contact Pro-Team directly.

Given the Pro-Team Product's history of leading the way with new technologies (internal barrel rifling, aftermarket bodies, pro-dot sites, and "more 4 star awards for quality than any other paintball company") it ought to come as no surprise that we're responsible for this thing - and for much more to come.

Steve

Pro-Team Products/Armson USA/Benchmark"

[p8ntball365]

well guys lets be optimistic here. if the cocker frame comes out first then the frame will get feedback and suggestions and if he is smart he will apply these suggestions to the mag frame. so in a sense we will be getting a better product for our mags. hope that made sense.

[Furby]

The winning side will need pre-existing art. Anyone here been around long enough to remember Al Mollick? He was doing PGrips and EGrips in '97-'98......even if his stuff only half-assed worked, it's older than either one. A few months back, he said he didn't care about the DeadlyWind stuff but way back when, he said he had spoken to PTP about his frames....if he's still alive, he may be pissed, or he may not care. Then again, things may get interesting.......

I remember that thing...do you still have it Terry?

[G3PB]

I remember that thing...do you still have it Terry?

Dale, if I still had the ones we built back in the 90's, I guess I could put up a fight...plenty of witnesses, such as yourself.....in this case, ours were Mag versions and about that time we got heavy into Cockers. If PTP went on and did development work for a patent, then so be it. At least for now. I just hope the patent isn't so broad as to exclude any type of further progress without violating something....seems the patent office is very lax these days. in the olden days, they used to be really picky.

I'm surprised someone isn't getting a patent on the idea of having a trigger, or if it fires a paintball and uses a "bolt", a hopper device.....doesn't seem to be an end to this......