constructive criticism on z grip and warp.

[magc68]

ive seen some talk about the positive and negative aspects of the z grip and warp so i thought id share my input on this matter.

as most of u know im a huge supporter of the z grip and just as much for the warp so dont take this as me bashing these products. im simply stating the reasons for discontinued use of both these products.

ill start off with the z grip. i have only one complaint about this product but it became such an issue for me i had to go back to a 45. this issue was moving with the gun. no matter what i did or tried i found it difficult to hold the gun on the move. this problem didnt become an issue untill i started making longer and longer moves off the break. as i started to push twards making the 50 off the break i had the problem of keeping the gun in a comfortable yet able to shoot at any time position. i could run with the gun but if i had an opponet going for the same bunker as me and it came down to who could shoot first i was always the loster. this was due to the way i had to carry the grip. when i ran with the gun the barrel was pointing backwards. not down or forward as with conventional guns. so the extra time to bring the gun up i would be shot. also i was only using 2 fingers to hold the untire gun while moving. i had a few times where i would drop my gun on the move or while sliding and this wasnt a good thing.
every other aspect of the grip was awsome and perfect for me just the problems with moving with it made me reconsider a 45. i still own a zgrip though.

now for the warp. being a front player gun shots were very common from bunkering moves. and one problem i had was if i got hit in the warp hose. every time i got hit in the hose it would break a ball. i would have to clean the hose out with water due to the corigated texture of the tubing and make sure its dry before i put it back on. just a hassel to do once or twice a day. this was an issue for both grey and black hoses. also i had another porblem with the hoses. this was the hoses poping off the adapters. i fixed the problem by hot glueing the hose to the adapter but this just make more of an issue when tryign to clean a broken ball in the hose. i had a problem with breaking 90 degree adapters, 3 to be exact. also with hopper falling off (no matter what i tried it would fall off ocassionally). the short battery life of a 9v in the warp.

these are just my thoughts on these products after i used both extensivly. i think both products are great products. i still own a z grip and im gonna have a warp on my next mag. i just thought id throw these issues out there and see if anyone has any advice or idea on these matters.

ken

[Cha0tic]

just a few suggestions if i may...

try rushing off the break with your gun in a firing stance. this way you will have your gun ready if you have to shoot, and its more comfortable.

try putting black electrical tape around the neck of your hopper. this will keep it on very tight. you might also want to try this on the adapter so that the hose doesn't fall off.

[cphilip]

Well Ken you bring up some interesting points. Thus proving that nothing is perfect all the time and for every situation.

No experience with a Z grip. My kid has one. I've never used it so I cannot comment.

But...

On the Warp issues: I have to ask. Did you ever drill your Revy and pass the hose through it? There are two reasons for doing so that you mention as problems. Restricts it from popping off and protects it from hits. Thats why I ask. If you pass the hose through the revy there is almost no hose left exposed to hits. And the extra security of the hopper along with the O rings on the tubing pretty much eliminate popping off of the tubes and in fact popping off of the Revy too. Another problem that you indicated. Drilling the revy and running the tubing through is not jsut to make the set up tighter. Its more important result is it all ties itself together as one unit so well and eliminates the problems you report. The fourth thing, Battery life, you know the fix for as you did one for me. The two batteries and a switch.

[i-luv-my-rt]

I also had that problem when i was using nicks gun. I fixed that by not shooting and just halling to the 50. As for the warp i agree with everything. I have problem with the adapters being to loose but i used duct tape(not that pretty but affective). Just yesterday at GRC I got shot in the warp hose but it just pulled it off and from the noice on the indoor field it actually kept the thing spinning so after almost a hopper poured out i turned it off. I just put the warp on my cocker and i put it on anygun i use. I might just have to buy another. Post some pics of your free-flow and warp i'd like to see that. Thanks and good luck!!!

[magc68]

well i should post the fixes for some of the warp problem i encountered.

battery life,
i set up a small toggel switch above the motor and ran 2 9v in parallel.

hoses poping off,
i hot glued everything together.

hopper falling off,
i tried electrical tape, neck adaptor and it would still slide off. im an agressive player, always diving and moving so it get banged around a lot. my final fix was to dril through the warp into the rev. then put a set screw in and screw it in as far as i could before the screw would enter into the feed neck hole. this held the rev in no prob but had to unscrew the set screw to get rev off.

hose breaks,
no didnt pass the hose through the rev. i didnt do this since i had a HF PF body and it wasnt an effecint setup to run the hose through the body. the curve in the hose was the reason for the hoses poping off as well. i didnt have $230 to blow on a new body or i would have gotten the warp body.


the z grip.
i can not run with the gun at my shoulder. tucking and running means the gun would be down at my side and i pushed forward. i also ran into problem with fast bunker moves. keeping the gun at your shoulder and running while not getting hit is a lot harder to do than it seems.

thanks for the replies.

[MajorDamage]

I havnt had the running problem with my Z-Grip because I have just had it for a little while(About 3 or 4 days of playing) and I also play front but usually don't fire while running, I usually depend on coverfire. But the warp I have used for a long time. I have a Pro-Team warp with AGD hose. I put Teflon tape around the base of the hose and stuck it into the Pro-Team adapter(the one connected to the warpfeed) and I connect an adjustable elbow onto the right angle adapter. I put one of those VLbow spacers inside the adjustable elbow(a 32 degrees elbow) and put the VLbow spacer around the top of the hose, then adjusted it to a tight fit. This all works together for the hoses to stay in place, but be very simple to take apart. I did not melt my hopper because I didn't want to mess up my hopper, and I have not had many shots to the hose, and never had paint break inside of the hose that I know of. I have some pictures, but I need to develope them first, and im short on cash so it may be a little while till I get these pics on here, sorry :(. But I love my Z-Grip and Warpfeed. My only complaint is that you can't really offset the tank with the warpfeed without making the warp stick out like 3 inches further, YUCK! hehe.

ENDO!

[cphilip]

P = Problem S = Solution


P) battery life.
S)set up a small toggel switch above the motor and ran 2 9v in parallel.

P) hoses poping off
s) use the o rings provided (or get some)and run it through the hopper. Definately get HR or Warp Left Body. Can do it by trading. I did two of these cost me very little but do it. Its the only way to realy fix this and I mean it.

P) Hopper falling off.
S) Run the hose through it. Locks it right on.

P) hose breaks.
S) Run the hose through the hopper. So little of it is now showing it's darn near impossible to hit enough of it to break any balls in there.

Thats my take on it Ken. I know it all revolves around the correct body and they can be expensive but it is the solution. Good to see you posting here again by the way.

[Dragoon]

I've seen some pics on how to set up 2 9v in parrallel here on the boards. But has anyone put up pics on how to run them with a toggle switch like you guys did?

Recently I've been having problems with battery life, so it's time for a long term solution.

Also does anyone know of a good, and I mean GOOD, recargable 9v. I'm spending a small fortune feeding my warped emag batteries. He's a hungry bugger ;)

Thanks
Douglas.

[Phil]

You people run? "gasp"
I bring a cammo stool with me to paintball... :)

[DYE-BaLLeR]

z grip-- intelli better
warp--not worth 200

[Tbone]

I love my Z-grip, we all have opinions I guess, but I haven't had much trouble running with it. I usually find that if I shoot in the opening of a game while trying to play front, I'll get hit anyway, Z-grip or no Z-grip.

[X-Plosive]

I ahev a z-grip and I posted previously about that holding problem. I would love to get black's oppinion on that. It's just hard to deal with. These days i just put the safety on and hold it by the KAPP gas thru. I too make runs to the 50. It is just difficult.

[~WarpedRT~]

Shooting on the run to the 50 is a bad idea. Having the gun shouldered, and ready to fire slows you down alot. I would simply hold the gun by the body rail behind the grip when running, so when you slide in, you can just grab it, and get ready to shoot. If you had your back and mid players using the shooting lanes correctly, then you wouldnt have a problem with meeting an opponent on the 50. Or shooting at you from ANY distance. If you opponents get enough nerve to actually try to run off the break, and start shooting at you, it's better to be down lower, with your head down, and you gun down, so it will make you a smaller target. If you have a sock hat, you probably will get bounces if you get hit in the head by any balls.

As for the warp, I love mine. I tried playing with a regular elbow and hopper on mine, and i just can't do it. The only thing that runs through my head is that I will get hit in the hopper. I am deciding on the z-grip, intellkiframe, and the E-Mag conversion. What to buy?

[BTAutoMag]

i used to have an RT w/ a Z-grip and i loved it. i found a way to run with it but im not sure if this wound work with a warp on the gun. i held the fore grip of the RT with my left hand firmly and i cradled the back of the body rail in the crook of my arm. that way all i needed, while running, was to reach up and pull the trigger with just one finger from my right hand. im not sure if it would work with a warp because it would get in the way of cradling it while running. my suggestion (only a suggestion to those people who do this) only use your warp with a 45 grip and dont use your warp with your z-grip. use them separate.

[BlackVCG]

Okay, let's see where to start... The first issue I'll address is running with the Z-Grip. This made me think a lot because to be quite honest I don't know how I run with the Z-Grip. I will admit, and my teammates can testify to this, that I'm pretty darn quick on the field. My "game" is to get as far up the field as possible and obviously I have to be fast to do that. I'd actually like to see video of me playing because I really don't know how I position the gun when I run. When I'm making a long sprint, I have my gun in my left hand and right hand off to the side and I'm moving both hands as if I was sprinting. I have no problems moving like this and I've never had a problem with dropping the gun. I'm pretty sure that I either have the gun somewhat shouldered, or both elbows tucked in close and the gun pointing at about a 45 degree angle down towards the ground. See, the next time I play I'd test this, but I won't play for another month or so when I get back home and I don't have any of my gear here with me, so I can't test any of this to see what my normal posture is when I'm running with my Z-Grip MiniMag. I do know that it's completely natural to me and something I don't pay attention to. Hence me not having any idea how I run with the Z-Grip. I just run and run fast. :)

Next topic... The Warp issues have all been covered by cphilip. I have the drilled hopper and only a very small portion of the hose is exposed. I've never been hit on the hose, so I've never had any internal breaks. Drilling the hopper makes the gun more compact, conceals the hose, and holds the hopper in the Warp. I have a Pre-BE Revy, so it's tight in the first place.

Dragoon- Here's a link to supposedly the best rechargeable 9V's you can buy. I just ordered some of these to use when I get back to playing so I can't comment on them yet, but they're highly recommended by people that have used them. Plainview 9.6V NIMH Batteries (http://www.plainviewbatteries.com/html/product.asp?P=6766)

Here's the place that I ordered mine from. A bit cheaper.

Thomas Distributing (http://www.thomas-distributing.com/9v-nimh-batteries-chargers.htm)

For those of you that haven't seen my gun and would like to, here it is.

MiniMag (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4071)

[skipdogg]

i would imagine its hard to break with a Z. The reason i got one is to shoot as much freakin paint as possible once the game starts, so i dont really have that problem. but i can see not using it if i was going for a long break.

[Bad Dave]

My experience is that u either run or shoot on the break not both at the same time, even top teams do not run and shoot just punter teams. I have a z grip RT with warp and do not have trouble with hose hits etc etc. I have however off set my tank and although this pushes the warp out more it is still v.comfy.

[Puckz]

Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt
I also had that problem when i was using nicks gun. I fixed that by not shooting and just halling to the 50. As for the warp i agree with everything. I have problem with the adapters being to loose but i used duct tape(not that pretty but affective). Just yesterday at GRC I got shot in the warp hose but it just pulled it off and from the noice on the indoor field it actually kept the thing spinning so after almost a hopper poured out i turned it off. I just put the warp on my cocker and i put it on anygun i use. I might just have to buy another. Post some pics of your free-flow and warp i'd like to see that. Thanks and good luck!!!

Hey what team were you guys? We were the team with the Black Smart Parts Jerseys and I was was the guy with the RT with Warp... What did you guys end up at?

[magc68]

i wanna clarify one thing...
when i say run and shoot off the break i mean the following:
i break and sprint as fast as i can not even looking or holding the gun up. just run. but i have had a few instances where both guys r going for the 50 and as we slide in we shoot at each other. this is what i was refering too. i never shoot a lane while breaking. and even if your back players r shooting that lane to the 50 guys still can get in there.

i just cannont find a comfortable way to hold the gun while running. once in a bunker i love it.

on the issue of the warp. i know the answer to all my problems is the warp body but the warp body is $230 and most people who have a warp have HF PF so i was posting my expirence with the HL PF. this also brings up the issue for non mag users. any one with a vertical feed or right feed gun will have the same issues.

[cphilip]

Hopper right PF body will get you by.

[Ityl]

The only thing I didn't like about the z grip, was that in some positions the gun was incredibly hard to shoot. I think it's better for a back player to have it because they are in a standing positions and don't run off the break, or atleast far.

[PigSweat]

Has anyone attempted to put the warp hose through a Ricochet? It's pretty skinny up front. Think it could be done?