New Warranty Policy at AGD

[AGD-BossLady]

I have some news for everyone; the reality of today's economy means that Airgun Designs can no longer do as much for free as we have done in the past.

Effective October 1, 2004, the fee schedule for repairs will be as follows:

1. Product still under the 90-day limited warranty from date of purchase - no charge for repairs (proof of purchase may be required).

2. Markers over 90 days from date of purchase but still with "star" warranty - $20 shipping/handling fee. Warp feeds - $10 shipping/handling fee.

3. Markers except E/Xmags out of warranty and all Flatlines - $65 rebuild fee. E/Xmags out of warranty - $85 rebuild fee.

We regret the necessity to implement these fee changes, but the economy left us no choice.

JoAnn
AGD-Boss Lady

[GT]

but the economy left us no choice.



:confused:
I think the issue is not selling enough rtp's and not the economy. Bummer regardless

[LaW]

:confused:
I think the issue is not selling enough rtp's and not the economy. Bummer regardless

If people dont have the money to buy enough rtp's because of the economy we fall back on the economy...

[shartley]

If people dont have the money to buy enough rtp's because of the economy we fall back on the economy...
That is true… unless they are still buying markers, just not RTPs. I see markers being purchased every day.

Good luck AGD and I hope your sales increase. Sometimes it takes time, and you really just started with the TacOne push. Keep the faith.

[Chronobreak]

sad to hear but how often do we really need to send guns in for repairs anyways ? ;)

[Bad_Dog]

they should keep the old warrenty on the tac-ones so that it gives people an incentive to buy them...

otherwise its a smart moove on AGD's side of the chess board...

[fire1811]

sucks but warrenties are becoming shorter and shorter with most everything nowadays

mags usually dont need much maintance and they are fairly easy to fix. its not hard to find a mag tech.

do many people send there gun to AGD for repair??

[1stdeadeye]

You buy AGD so you don't need to use the warranty! :clap:

[shartley]

You buy AGD so you don't need to use the warranty! :clap:This reminds me of how I think. I would rather have a good product than a good warrantee. Whenever a salesperson tries to sell me a product by touting how great the warrantee is, I ask them why they NEED such a good warrantee. And even more so when the warrantee is EXTRA.

When utilizing the warrantee, you are not utilizing the product……………. So, what do YOU want? A good warrantee, or a good product?

I feel the same way about rebates. I never buy a product BECAUSE it has a fantastic discount or rebate associated with it. I consider those bonuses associated with the purchase, not the REASON for the purchase. If I wouldn’t consider buying it before, why should I consider buying it now simply because I can send in some paperwork and get some money back? I guess it all depends on why you purchase things and your standards for buying them. ;)

[JimmyBeam]

exaclty, i think im the only regular at my field who has consistantly been able to play with the same marker without a single problem. (knock on wood) its kinda nice, and people who normally wouldnt give a mag a second look are starting to notice. i think that once the hAir trigger is out and our mech mags can finally keep up with electros, more people might start making the switch.

[SeeK]

The full quote is here:
http://www.moviequotes.com/fullquote.cgi?qnum=3632

But to paraphrase Tommy Boy:

"The reason why they have a guarrantee on the box is because they know all they sold you is a guarranteed piece of ****. Hell, I can take a crap in a box and slap a guarrantee on it for you, if that's what you want."

[JoeMag]

the warrantee doesnt mean the product is bad. it is there "just in case" something bad were to happen, becasue we all know that it is possible for something to go wrong even with an mag for that matter. lets say AGD took off there 90 day warrantee and u had the one mag out of all the mags that didnt work, or broke and couldnt be fixed my you average mag owner. now you would wish u had that warrantee.

[shartley]

the warrantee doesnt mean the product is bad. it is there "just in case" something bad were to happen, becasue we all know that it is possible for something to go wrong even with an mag for that matter. lets say AGD took off there 90 day warrantee and u had the one mag out of all the mags that didnt work, or broke and couldnt be fixed my you average mag owner. now you would wish u had that warrantee.
Well…. yeah. But it seems you missed the point being made. But that is okay. ;)

[oneworld]

85.00 to rebuild it!!

send it to me in peices!! ill put it back together..and it onley cost me 3.00 to ship it to you guys las t week...and your gonna charge me 30.00 to ship it back!

wow! im glad im selling my mag!

[shartley]

85.00 to rebuild it!!

send it to me in peices!! ill put it back together..and it onley cost me 3.00 to ship it to you guys las t week...and your gonna charge me 30.00 to ship it back!

wow! im glad im selling my mag!
Generally “rebuild” does not mean “put back together”.

When you buy a rebuilt engine, do they simply take an engine apart, clean it, and put it back together?

Now apply that to paintball markers.

Also what it costs YOU to ship is often different than what it costs a business to ship. Did you ship it with tracking? What delivery service did you ship it with and what level?

Yes, $30 is a bit high for shipping a marker, but anything between $15-$30 is really not THAT unreasonable. After all, I don’t know their shipping method.

ADDED: I just re-read their prices. It is $20 for the marker. $10 for Warp Feed. That may not mean it is $30 for BOTH shipped together. I would ask them about this if need be. But like I stated, $20 is not a bad price for shipping.

[Halliday]

So E-Mags still with the 2 "stars" are still fixed for free but $20 shipping?

[AGD-OfficeGal]

(1) $10 shipping/handling is for a warp feed by itself. $20 is the blanket shipping/handling fee for a marker, with or without a warp feed.

(2) Yes, for an Emag with two *stars* remaining the repairs are still free (subject to warranty terms and limitations), shipping/handling is $20.00.

[AGDlover]

You buy AGD so you don't need to use the warranty! :clap:


suck-up :p ;)

[soccer4minimags]

WTH, well there goes one of the incentives to purchase another AGD marker.

And don't defend the shipping fees, I can ship ups with insurance and tracking for 6 to 7 bucks, and have done so with valves many times. 20 bucks :rolleyes:

I wonder if that S&H fee is ontop of the 65 dollar rebuild. Heck at that point I guess you would just start to consider trading that valve in.

I'm losing my faith here.

[shartley]

WTH, well there goes one of the incentives to purchase another AGD marker.

And don't defend the shipping fees, I can ship ups with insurance and tracking for 6 to 7 bucks, and have done so with valves many times. 20 bucks :rolleyes:

I wonder if that S&H fee is ontop of the 65 dollar rebuild. Heck at that point I guess you would just start to consider trading that valve in.

I'm losing my faith here.
I think you need to go weigh a complete marker and then find out shipping costs. Having shipped a good many markers (not just small parts) I have never been able to ship with tracking and insurance for anywhere close to 6 or 7 bucks. I can ship small products for just over 4 though….. but never an entire marker.

[Tunaman]

WTH, well there goes one of the incentives to purchase another AGD marker.

And don't defend the shipping fees, I can ship ups with insurance and tracking for 6 to 7 bucks, and have done so with valves many times. 20 bucks :rolleyes:

I wonder if that S&H fee is ontop of the 65 dollar rebuild. Heck at that point I guess you would just start to consider trading that valve in.

I'm losing my faith here.
Don't forget about insurance. If the 1000 dollar souped up Emag gets lost in shipping, don't come crying. The average 5 lb package costs around 15 bucks to go cross country. Add 1000 insurance and there is your 20 bucks. I get alot of guys shipping Xmags to me and the Postage on the box that they shipped it in says 5.78! You guys are NUTS! Insure all packages for their full replacement value. AGD is right in line with shipping fees. Also, don't forget about the guy that packs your order...and the packing materials...they aren't free either. Expect even higher shipping increases from all vendors if these gasoline costs keep rising. :(

[soccer4minimags]

Okay, I see where you 2 are coming from. Yes an e-mag or marker requires a lot of insurance (up to the value of the item). And yes I insure my packages fully. But really you shouldn't be sending in your entire gun, unless of course its an e-mag. One of the features that make mags great, are that most problems are isolated to the valve so you really shouldn't have to send in more than that.

UPS, gives you a 100 bucks right off the bat for insurance. So for example a valve you only have to get an additional 200 insurance. Thats where I am getting my figures from.

I still don't think its right.

I think this will turn away people new to mags an unable to tune/repair valves themselves. I am curious how many problems the agd tech guys handle that are not defects but just tuning issues that people can't work out on their own. Maybe this is a good side too and will force people to only send it in for legitimate reasons like re-attaching entire powertubes.

[Muzikman]

When AGD does a warranty repair, they want the entire gun, minus the barrel, drops, etc. Say the problem is NOT in the valve, then what? they have a valve sitting in their hands that works in every other gun but yours. So now they send it back, you put it in and it does not work. I bet that is the point when you jump on AO and say that AGD tech support sucks because they couldn't fix your gun.

[SeeK]

Let's look at it this way: Sony has always had a 90 day warranty and they still produce highly regarded products. The expectation is that it'll either have a problem quickly or not for a long long time. All of their products are electonic with few moving parts.

Now we are talking about a mechanical marker that is actually designed to be dragged through the mud, maybe cleaned, and continue working.

Now it's fair that if you wish to treat your stuff that way you should expect to pay for work that you could do if you watched to video. How many other markers go that far? The four other markers I've bought came with a 6 page booklet. The Shocker troubleshooting guide isn't even as good as the ones on the internet.

[MonsterMag]

:( Thank god for tunman ;)

[soccer4minimags]

When AGD does a warranty repair, they want the entire gun, minus the barrel, drops, etc. Say the problem is NOT in the valve, then what? they have a valve sitting in their hands that works in every other gun but yours. So now they send it back, you put it in and it does not work. I bet that is the point when you jump on AO and say that AGD tech support sucks because they couldn't fix your gun.

well if I am supposed to take that personally, FYI they do take just valves for warrenty repair. Had it done before, no issues.

Why is everyone defending this, we all know deep down this sucks. Its not about whether or not your sending in valves or guns, its about now AGD's tech support really doesn't stand out from any other manufactures.

[Doobie]

now AGD's tech support really doesn't stand out from any other manufactures.

Stand out and lose money, or get in line and stay in business.

I personally want them around a little while longer ;)

[Muzikman]

well if I am supposed to take that personally, FYI they do take just valves for warrenty repair. Had it done before, no issues.

Why is everyone defending this, we all know deep down this sucks. Its not about whether or not your sending in valves or guns, its about now AGD's tech support really doesn't stand out from any other manufactures.

I have been shooting mags since 93 and I have NEVER had to send one back to AGD. I did have to take my Emag to IAO one year to get the board replaced as it fried, but other than that, I have never had to have a tech work on my gun. So no, I will defend this, the lack of a warranty does not affect me one bit.

[ClassicMagger]

Hey:

Sounds fine to me, AGD. Honestly from my first Automag bought new in the UK from you CF00684 to my X-Mags and more. I have never needed to send one in. Granted I would hit you up at a tournament if you were there just to flash my software. But hey besides that my babies stay here. No need to send em off.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

-ClassicMagger

[davidnj]

now AGD's tech support really doesn't stand out from any other manufactures.

It does stink that AGDs situation is forcing them into this move but at the same time I dont mind the move at all. I own a few mags, a cocker a tippman and some other random markers.

AGD- Never had to use their tech support :headbang:
Cocker-Ha. Anything that went wrong with mine or a buddies cocker ran about 30-50 to fix. :cuss:
Spyder-Never had to do anything major (I swear that thing is nothing more than a tube and a spring) :p
Tippmann-Broken parts replaced free for me by tippman (broken entierly thru my own tinkering at that). :eek:

So in my experience, I dont care that they did this. I feel bad that some people will have to pay 20 or so bucks to get their AGD marker fixed but I think the reality of the AGD valve is that nearly any problem can be fixed with a workbench, an o-ring kit, a few allen keys and a PC open to AO.org. If it goes beyond being able to do the repair yourself, I think $20 is more than fair to know that it will be done properly. I realize I dont touch on electro stuff but I cant since I dont own any electro markers.

So to end my rambling...I dont think it matters one bit that their tech support has increased in price. The sale of AGD markers might be lower than others right now but it isnt because of this change, they have a much larger image problem (or lack of image problem possibly) to deal with.

:argh:

[athomas]

I think too many people were sending in markers for adjustment rather than repair. Many times here on AO, people refer to broken mags and rquest help to determine whether they should send their marker to AGD for repair. Most of the times, the marker is just out of adjustment. A manufacturer can't be held accountable for manual adjustments done by a user. Now, if the marker is truely broken and adjustments can't fix the problem, the fee for a proper rebuild is not that high, especially since you know the marker will be back to new specs when it returns.

I don't mind the fees. I think it will get rid of the people that just send in there marker because they don't want to take the time to troubleshoot the problem.

[AGD-OfficeGal]

"I wonder if that S&H fee is ontop of the 65 dollar rebuild."

No.

[Wc Keep]

you little ladies are all *****ing about the stupid of things. oh i took my mag and bent it around a tree and now agd has the balls to charge me to fix it. why dont you all just realize that you really dont need to warranty these things. plus there are techs like the awesome tunaman who can also fix it. so stop your *****ing and ask agd to get back on top of the paintball world.

[cphilip]

...this makes me wonder if maybe they moved Jon back to shipping and handling..... you know how high maintenance he is.... prolly got to pay for his high life! :D

[skipdogg]

Personally I have had lots of stuff done for free in the past. This fee increase I feel is still reasonable, and I agree with the opinion that an AGD marker rarely needs to go in for a fix. As for people saying this is another reason to not buy a mag...grow up. Everything in life is not free for you. People will buy a marker for $1000+ and then complain about a $65 fee they would maybe pay for 1-2 times during the life of the marker. Sheesh. I support AGD on this. My $.02

[buttrunks101]

I was just wondering I am new to mags but these stars where are they located or do they like engrave the min for everytime you send in your gun?

[Wc Keep]

on classic valves they are located right next to the air fitting and on retros and x they didnt exist.

[AGD-OfficeGal]

Stars were engraved on Automag and Minimag valves, just above the serial number. We punch out a star for each warranty visit. Older AM/MM valves without stars are out of warranty. All Automag RTs and Flatlines are out of warranty. The rest of our valves are equivalent of two stars so we "punch a star" when we do warranty work, so if there are two punches (very small dents) above the serial number, the warranty has been used up.

The Warranty Policy page has now been updated:

http://www.airgun.com/WarrantyPolicy.shtml

(I hope I caught everything.)

Marcia

[soccer4minimags]

Well, since you're now charging for repairs how bout you get a 1-800 number now too.

So we aren't getting messed over twice, once while on hold, then again later down the line.

[Kevmaster]

i still agree with newt...i'd rather have a good product than a good warranty.

the warranties they sell you at best buy and on your car are just shams anyways!

Long live the 'mag

[tony3]

I'd rather have a good product and good warrenty. :)

[Imag]

IMO, AGD is making the right decision... i think that you guys really need to get out there more and this will help.. and seriously when will you ever have to send your gun in to get it fixed?? and if it is sooo bad that u do need to send it in, $20 really isnt that bad i think.

once the hair trigger comes out, mags will rule the world :hail: i mean a fast AND reliable gun?! sch get out!

woah better calm down, heh heh

[SpecialBlend2786]

ouch:(

but I've never had to send in my markers anyway... :clap:

[cockermongol]

Let me tell you why I suck as a Salesman. Say I walk into some guys office and he's even remotely interested in buying something. Well then I get all excited and I'm like Jo-Jo the idiot circus boy with a pretty new pet. The pet, is my possible sale. Oh my pretty little pet. I love you. So I stroke it....and I pet it....and I massage it. And I love my little naughty pet. You're naughty... And then I take my naughty pet and I go....


AHHHH!


I killed it.



I killed my sale!

[11_Mile_TMaster]

This reminds me of how I think. I would rather have a good product than a good warrantee. Whenever a salesperson tries to sell me a product by touting how great the warrantee is, I ask them why they NEED such a good warrantee. And even more so when the warrantee is EXTRA.

When utilizing the warrantee, you are not utilizing the product……………. So, what do YOU want? A good warrantee, or a good product?

I feel the same way about rebates. I never buy a product BECAUSE it has a fantastic discount or rebate associated with it. I consider those bonuses associated with the purchase, not the REASON for the purchase. If I wouldn’t consider buying it before, why should I consider buying it now simply because I can send in some paperwork and get some money back? I guess it all depends on why you purchase things and your standards for buying them. ;)


I see a warranty as the manufacturer standing behind their product. I like to look at it in terms of a very particularly failiure-prone computer component: Power supplies.

You can pay 35$ for that generic 450 watt Power supply with a 1 year warranty, or you can pay 65-75$ for that Antec with a three year warranty. I'll give you two guesses as to which is better.

Don't get me wrong, I've had my fair share of products where the warranty means squat in terms of quality. But for the most part, a Warranty indicates a company's belief that their product will function properly.

[mobius]

I see a warranty as the manufacturer standing behind their product. I like to look at it in terms of a very particularly failiure-prone computer component: Power supplies.

You can pay 35$ for that generic 450 watt Power supply with a 1 year warranty, or you can pay 65-75$ for that Antec with a three year warranty. I'll give you two guesses as to which is better.

Don't get me wrong, I've had my fair share of products where the warranty means squat in terms of quality. But for the most part, a Warranty indicates a company's belief that their product will function properly.


I agree. I just spent $4100 on a new toolbox for work (I'm an autobody tech), and the reason I chose the Matco box over the Cornwell was that the warrantee was better. I knew for a fact that the boxes were of comparable quality, size and price. So I had to make a decision based on something.

On the other hand, I would definitely prefer that a product was good quality with a bad warranty that I'll never use, versus bad quality with a warranty I'll use every month.

To sum up, I feel AGD made a wise business decision.

[Magglerock]

Has it gotten this bad?

[Wc Keep]

Has it gotten this bad?

it hasnt gotten bad at all. agd is just sick of having to fix guns for free when they could be making money. so just take care of your gun, dont wrap it around a tree and youll be fine.