how do i make my timmy run off of CO2???

[oneworld]

hey guys!... i have a stock 2k2 timmy!..and ive been playin alot more in places that i can onley ruun off of C02..SO lmk if you have ne ideas LMK

thanks for your help again

[The Action Figure]

play somewhere else :rolleyes:

[_tMAN]

if you have a timmy and you play at fields that only have co2, either you need a new field or a new gun.

dang you beat me gid

[MonsterMag]

get a scuba tank and a fill station ;)

[personman]

A remote, 2 palmer stabilizers, and a BPS cap of about 3 :)

[Barfly]

ok this guy knows his shizzle on CO2, read this article. He is only wrong about RT valved mags.

http://www.icdownersgroup.com/start.html

[nastymag]

if it can even run on Co2 , you will need an anti siphon tank.
a Stablizer at least.


its not worth it that right there is going to run atleast 100 bucks ( 60 for stablizer, 40 for tank)
just buy a tank, and unless you are playing outlaw you should have access to Compressed air.

[tony3]

Vertical Stabilizer, Horizontal Stabilizer, Anti-Sphion bottle. Set horziontal to 700 psi, vertical to the velocity you want.

[CoolHand]

It is totally possible.

I run a 68/4500 MaxFlo with an anti-siphon tube, into nice mid pressure reg (stock torp will do, but a Gladiator, or a stabilizer would be better).

The key is to double reg it, and to keep the operating pressure as low as the marker will tolerate (regardless of what marker it is). The main goal here is to keep the liquid out of the second reg, and for sure to keep it out of the marker. This is the basic reason the XValves and even Classics (to a lesser extent) don't run well on CO2, they need to run right at or just above where CO2 turns to liquid on most days. Liquid in the marker = frozen orings, leaks, vel. spikes, chuffs, and general suckage, although it rarely produces any real damage.

If you double reg it, use anti-siphon, and run the marker as low as it can go (pressure wise), you should be fine. I've had Imps, Shockers, and Timmys shooting at upwards of 18 bps on CO2, with no ill effects (except the reg frosted over :rofl: , and I once froze my hand to the vert maxflo on the Imp).

Have a good time, and make sure you invest in some good low temp oring lube before hand (Dow 33 or Dow 55). Dry orings usually = frozen and torn orings

As always, be careful when doing air plumbing.

Later

[Muzikman]

The CO2 can not be good for the 'noid. It might work, but for how long?

[CoolHand]

The CO2 can not be good for the 'noid. It might work, but for how long?

This is one misconception about CO2 that really bugs me. The idea that the CO2 will somehow get in there an eat the internals of a marker, that somehow the inert gas that is CO2 will magically become corrosive and destroy the marker is somewhat laughable.

As long as the solenoid does not see any liquid, there will be no problems. I have had an Impulse running on CO2 for years now, with no problems. The solenoid in an Intimidator is nearly identical. You won't have problems unless you screw around and let liquid get into the LP reg, and into the solenoid.

Pressure is pressure is pressure. As long as the CO2 can provide the needed pressure (read that as - putting out the minimum operating pressure once the bottle gets good and chilled down), it will run. No explosions, No implosions, No Frozen Gnomes, No Angry Trolls, nor MisGuided Billy Goats.

Respect the CO2, and it will take care of you. Mistreat it, and it will treat you like you were a skinny white guy in a federal prison.

That is all.

:ninja: Myth Busting

:rofl:

[Automaggot68]

Duuuuude...get on AIM.

This is one misconception about CO2 that really bugs me. The idea that the CO2 will somehow get in there an eat the internals of a marker, that somehow the inert gas that is CO2 will magically become corrosive and destroy the marker is somewhat laughable.

As long as the solenoid does not see any liquid, there will be no problems. I have had an Impulse running on CO2 for years now, with no problems. The solenoid in an Intimidator is nearly identical. You won't have problems unless you screw around and let liquid get into the LP reg, and into the solenoid.

Pressure is pressure is pressure. As long as the CO2 can provide the needed pressure (read that as - putting out the minimum operating pressure once the bottle gets good and chilled down), it will run. No explosions, No implosions, No Frozen Gnomes, No Angry Trolls, nor MisGuided Billy Goats.

Respect the CO2, and it will take care of you. Mistreat it, and it will treat you like you were a skinny white guy in a federal prison.

That is all.

:ninja: Myth Busting

:rofl:

[trains are bad]

yay I've been saying the same for years, it's amazing how stubborn people can be on issues they really haven't thought about for themselve.


You won't have problems unless you screw around and let liquid get into the LP reg, and into the solenoid.

Good luck even achieving that, since liquid co2 doesn't exist at low pressures and normal temperatures. Speaking of which, low marker operating pressure *by itself* is a property that is very beneficial when using co2, no matter how many people say otherwise.

[xXHavokXx]

We rigged up an older timmy with an antisyphon, dual stabs and CO2 and we were getting horrible drop off at decent rates of speed.

My advice: Forget CO2, get a scuba and fill station, if there aren't any dive shops in your area see if the fire dept. will fill it. Is it worth spending money on 2 stabs, an antisyphoned maxflo and then running the risk of liquid getting into your gun assuming catastrophic failure of the two regs over your lame fields being CO2 only. If all else fails move to California, the chicks are hotter, the air is sweeter, and unlike your primative state and much of the mid west we've figured out how to contain our sweet sweet air of freedom into cylinders for paintball. Did I mention the chicks are hotter?

[Muzikman]

I am a huge supporter of CO2, ran it on mags for years and still use it on my Palmers. I am not saying that it will somehow "eat" the internals. But I am sure the first sign of liquid would pretty much kill the noid. I am not saying you cannot make it work, but seeing as how it seems some Timmies already have noid problems (or had), I wouldn't wanna chance it.

[GT]

I am a huge supporter of CO2, ran it on mags for years and still use it on my Palmers. I am not saying that it will somehow "eat" the internals. But I am sure the first sign of liquid would pretty much kill the noid. I am not saying you cannot make it work, but seeing as how it seems some Timmies already have noid problems (or had), I wouldn't wanna chance it.


I think the issue is liquid in the 'niod and then expanding to a gas causing a huge spike in pressure, blowing the noid to bits. Just my 2 cents, any gun can run on c02.

[SlartyBartFast]

ok this guy knows his shizzle on CO2, read this article. He is only wrong about RT valved mags.

http://www.icdownersgroup.com/start.html

Ummm... No.

From the article he actually seems to not understand a single thing about the gas reactions, expansion, and thermal requirements. :tard:

Despite a lot of misinformation, he does however at least arrive at a useable CO2 setup.

The problem with CO2 is that heat is required to gasify the liquid and create the required gas. It's not that the flow of CO2 causes cold, it's because under high rates of fire, the CO2 gas that gets drawn through the lines hasn't warmed fully to ambient temperature.

Fire too rapidly, and the heat being absorbed by the liquid in the tank isn't enough to fully vaporise it quickly enough, so liquid begins to travel into the lines.....

The liquid then either causes problems with the gun because the seals freeze, or causes spikes in velocity as the liquid vaporises some where in the gun (dump chamber or barrel) that creates a pressure spike and a high fps shot.

[SlartyBartFast]

I think the issue is liquid in the 'niod and then expanding to a gas causing a huge spike in pressure, blowing the noid to bits. Just my 2 cents, any gun can run on c02.

That's THE #1 issue with CO2. Keeping the liquid out. Issue #2 is keeping the gas temperature stable or isolating a sectiopn and regulating output to limit fluctuation due to temperature change.

[fire1811]

just screw it in. everything will be just fin




:ninja:

[oldsoldier]

I beleive bob long states you CAN run a timmy off of Co2, but doesnt recommend it. It WILL get major dropoff...and, on the outside chance that liquid does get into the internals...well, gun is dead. Ask yourself if its worth it. Invest in a 92ci tank, fill it before you play, and play all day. I can get a case out of a 92ci tank, thats usually enough for a day of play.

[amb8]

A remote hose with 2 stabs also works really good.. If you dont mind using a remote.. Another problem with Co2 is dirty fills, thats the only issue i have seen using co2...
Good luck

[CoolHand]

. . . . . . Fire too rapidly, and the heat being absorbed by the liquid in the tank isn't enough to fully vaporise it quickly enough, so liquid begins to travel into the lines......


That would be true if you didn't have any regs in line with it. CO2 is very similar to many comercial refrigerants, in that when it is forced through an orifice (like in every regulator on the market) it either a) flash boils (thus turning to gas) or b) vaporizes and then solidifies (essentially creating dry snow) this solid then subliminates and we're back to a gas. Both of the scenarios basicly preclude the gas turning back into a liquid. For that to happen you'd have to either recompress it inside the marker, or drastically lower the tempurature (like many many degrees below zero). This is of course assuming that you are running the marker at less than 400 psi or so. Much above that, and the gas could reliquify given a cold enough ambient temp (very cold for people and paintball, but possible).

The big pinch to avoiding drop off is to have enough volume before the poppet to allow the snow to subliminate, or the gas to warm a fuzz before you ask it to do anything. I'd suggest a volumizer for the Timmy, biggest one you can lay your hands on.

That said, I think this whole CO2 drop off thing is a bit exaggerated. I've got an '03 Shocker here that I've been running on CO2. Anyone who's seen a shocker apart can tell you that they basically don't have any chamber to fill before the gas gets to the bolt, just one 3/16" ID passage about 1 & 1/2" long. My bud Eric (I cannot shoot it that fast :cry: ) has had it up to 18 bps with no visable drop off at all. That's with no volumizers at all. Of course it runs at ~1/2 the pressure that the Timmy will, but the Timmy also has ~10 times the space for expansion up front, so I'd say its at least a wash, and at best it should work better.

I'll be on AIM tonight after about 8pm Central time. If I can help you, let me know.

Later

[SlartyBartFast]

CO2 is very similar to many comercial refrigerants, in that when it is forced through an orifice (like in every regulator on the market) it either a) flash boils (thus turning to gas) or b) vaporizes and then solidifies (essentially creating dry snow) this solid then subliminates and we're back to a gas.

Not ture. Either that or every HVAC book I've read so far, the instructions for tuning a Thermal Expansion Valve, and the numerous courses I've given for rapid transit vehicle HVAC systems is wrong. ;)

"Flash Boils" means that if the pressure is low enough and there is ample heat, the liquid VERY rapidly boils once it has passed through the expansion valve. Absolute and instantaneous liquid to gas or solid certainly happens if you vent to atmospheric, but not necessarily in a closed system. All depends on the pressure drop, and the temperature and pressure on the low pressure side.

In a standard HVAC refrigerant system, the thermal expansion valve is adjusted for "superheat". That means the saturated vapor exiting the evaporator is a at a certain temperature above the temperture of vaporisation. The only point in an evaporator that you're guarenteed to have only gas is at the outlet. At the inlet and for a good portion of the evaporator, the pipes are filled with liquid.

If you don't beleive me, try and get a copy of Sporlan Bulletin 10-9 (which I have in front of me) or similar theory of operation manual.

Oh, and another thought just came to me. In a refrigerant system where the compressor varies output depending on demand, there is often a suction accumulator installed before the compressor on the suction side. This is because if the compressor increases output faster than the expansion valve reacts, liquid will likely make it all the way through the circuit.

The sucction accumulator traps the liquid and doses it to the compressor in quantities small enough that the compressor won’t be damaged.

End of refrigeration lesson. :)

[m20power]

Just my two cents...
It seems like with how much your marker cost you would also have the money to afford a scuba tank and fill station, or if this is not possible get a very large 4500psi tank. The scuba tank can also help pay for itself by giving you cheaper air fills or if you play with friends you could charge them to use your tank.

While it seems possible to use CO2 with no ill effects a scuba tanks seems like it will be cheaper in the end and add less weight to your gun.

And for xXHavokXx's comment. Yes women here in Cali are hot, but they also tend to be not so nice and stuck up. And if you move to California, Stay out of the Valley.
Fresno=Hell

Ps :dance:

[oneworld]

i think i could do that!...my dad is the head fireman here..im sure he could give me free tank! and it wouldnt cost me to fill that :clap: :D

ill have to look into that.... running it off CO2 is gonna cost to much!!

ill talk to my papa and see what he can do! :headbang:

[CoolHand]

i think i could do that!...my dad is the head fireman here..im sure he could give me free tank! and it wouldnt cost me to fill that :clap: :D . . . .

If you have compressed air available, go that route. It is possible, but as you said, it is much easier and cheaper to use HPA.

Slarty - I'm no HVAC guy, I've never studied it, I just know that if you pinch the coils on a rooftop heat exchanger, the refrigerant will boil just past the pinch point. So it then freezes up the coil, and the whole deal stops doing what it was meant to. This much I have observed, except for the boiling (that I was told by the guy who fixed it). If he lied to me I appologize. However, you said it yourself, its the pressure gradient that matters. Which is why I suggested he try to get the operating pressure as low as possible - to maximize the pressure drop across the reg.

The bottom line is that it can be done, but that is it far more complicated and expensive than using HPA. Its not worth arguing about either way.

I will close with Banana Man - :dance:

That is all.

[1ofkind]

Putting c02 into a 1200$ marker, just think about it ;)

[whymillywhy]

What part of South Dakota do u live in, The Aberdeen field has it, Splat Zone in Rapid has it, Bridgewater field has it, where do you go!??!?!!?, PM me an IM address, I wanna talk to you

I am from SD too

[skife]

The CO2 can not be good for the 'noid. It might work, but for how long?

tank ran it in his bushmasters for over 2 years with no problems.




also i find it kind of funny everyone talks like co2 will eat the internals, someone already said this but co2 is an ineart gas, meaning its non corrosive.

the only problem is that liquid is bad, thats all

keep the tank warm, liquid out of the gun, and you should have no problems.

[Chronobreak]

anyone ask why u would get a 1200 marker and want to run co2? i think something is wrong here :tard:

[CoolHand]

anyone ask why u would get a 1200 marker and want to run co2? i think something is wrong here :tard:

So what you are saying is - "If you have to run CO2, you can't have a nice/state of the art marker."

That's just dumb. Not everyplace in the world has HPA, especially rural areas (like here in BFE). If the guy wants to shoot a Timmy, but there aren't any fields around with HPA, he looks for a way to run a Timmy on CO2.

Just remember -> Small Mind = Bad :wow:

Besides, all you hate jockeys missed where he said he was gonna get HPA from the fired department (about 6 posts up from this one).

The problem is solved, the horse is dead, ground up, pattied, fried, and served with a smile.

There is nothing left to beat.

[Chronobreak]

Besides, all you hate jockeys missed where he said he was gonna get HPA from the fired department (about 6 posts up from this one).

The problem is solved, the horse is dead, ground up, pattied, fried, and served with a smile.

There is nothing left to beat.

guess i did miss that part. and the point was why put soo much itno making a cos setup that would work for the price that he could get an all day nitro tank.

and yes ANY GUN CAN run on co2 some better than others with the right setup but i for one wouldnt get a 800~+ timmy and run co2 on it..i wouldvve got soemthing a bit mroe cosnervative and sprung for the tnak..then again thats just me...

no hurt intended just didnt seem logical to me.

hope it works fine for ya and dirty fills shall be feared other than that i think yuol be fine :cheers:

[1ofkind]

anyone ask why u would get a 1200 marker and want to run co2? i think something is wrong here :tard:

Today 03:50 PM
1ofkind Putting c02 into a 1200$ marker, just think about it

[CoolHand]

guess i did miss that part. and the point was why put soo much itno making a cos setup that would work for the price that he could get an all day nitro tank.

and yes ANY GUN CAN run on co2 some better than others with the right setup but i for one wouldnt get a 800~+ timmy and run co2 on it..i wouldvve got soemthing a bit mroe cosnervative and sprung for the tnak..then again thats just me...

no hurt intended just didnt seem logical to me.

hope it works fine for ya and dirty fills shall be feared other than that i think yuol be fine :cheers:


Its not that he can't afford an HPA tank, its that there is physically no place to get one filled. This is true in many locations. The closest HPA fill from me is just under 100 miles away. Thusly, I run all my markers on CO2, its not that I can't afford an HPA tank, I just can't afford a booster.

I guess its hard for city folk to understand just how devoid of infrastructure the country really is. Imagine if you will a place where you have to drive 30 miles in any direction to get a good cup of coffee, or a decent pizza. Where you have to drive 60 miles to find a mall, and its a dirt mall at that (Al La Mall Rats :rofl: ).

Anyway, trust me, HPA is not as prevalent as you think, at least not outside the big cities.

Have a good one.

:dance: Banana Man sees your point.

[Got_Paint]

CO2 does not damage the noid if set up properly.

http://redbox.liquidev.com/~jwigum/Paintball/CO2%20shoot%20down.wmv

Watch this clip

Note: It's really much louder than it sounds, since the camera had a crappy microphone

[1ofkind]

Thats cool, but I don't want to rock a remote line.

[Got_Paint]

You don't have to use a remote line