Is Pro Team Preventing the Release of the hAIr?

[Magglerock]

On some other forums (PBN, some cocker forums), a guy claiming to be a egineer for Pro Team Products has been posting vid of a hAIr-like pneumo-assist trigger for 'cockers. He says it can be applied to many different markers and will be for the Mag after the cocker version is released. He has said that the technology has been around since 2000, and that PTP just got a patent for it. Does this mean the hAIr will not be released?

[teufelhunden]

That guy is RRFireblade, he posts here. I don't know about the legalities of his frame vs the DW frame.. but Jay did say that there areother versions of the frame in the works, probably including one for the 'Mag. So, even if the hAir doesn't/can't be released because of it, there will still be a frame for 'Mags.

[Chronobreak]

but will the ptp frame be on par or better? and pneu guns have been arund for awhile just seems ptp got the patent for them.(seems they were rushed by seeing the interest of the hair)

and not sure yet but it is a possibilty it wont be released...

[LudavicoSoldier]

And so it begins....mwahahahaha!

[Automaggot68]

On some other forums (PBN, some cocker forums), a guy claiming to be a egineer for Pro Team Products has been posting vid of a hAIr-like pneumo-assist trigger for 'cockers. He says it can be applied to many different markers and will be for the Mag after the cocker version is released. He has said that the technology has been around since 2000, and that PTP just got a patent for it. Does this mean the hAIr will not be released?


Hey, guess what, he DOES work for Pro Team Products.
Thats Jay, and he's known as RRfireblade here on AO. He's a standup guy, and designs products for PTP.
As for whether or not the hAir will not be released Because of that, no one can be sure that it'll be the same design as the hAir. I really dont think it's going to stiffle the progress of the hair.
if it does, we'll just have to see what happens.

[teufelhunden]

but will the ptp frame be on par or better? and pneu guns have been arund for awhile just seems ptp got the patent for them.(seems they were rushed by seeing the interest of the hair)

seen the video? Looks just as impressive as the hAir, except in video quality :p

As for being rushed, Jay said this has been in the works for -5- years. Legalities apparently took up a lot of that time.

Maggot, it'd have to be of similiar design to be stifling the legal progess of the hAir..

[Vash-HT]

If both frames are pneumatically assissted theres a good bet theyre similar, plus we don't know how broad the patent is, it could end up covering it even if theyre not exactly the same design.

[Chronobreak]

yes i saw the 8 second vid....not so impressive to me i guess...i need MORE.

and i wonder if the ptp version has a special 3 way too or if they have another means of doing it if so it it adjustable and reliable?

[Automaggot68]

yes i saw the 8 second vid....not so impressive to me i guess...i need MORE.

and i wonder if the ptp version has a special 3 way too or if they have another means of doing it if so it it adjustable and reliable?

Yeah, because a mech cocker firing that fast isn't impressive.

[Rift]

anyone got alink to this vid?

[Furby]

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story04446.php

Ouch time....

[LaW]

Ok guys... does it really matter whom eventually ends up releasing it as long as it just gets released? The only thing that would be nice is if DW version is able to be produced AGD might be able to sell it easier on new markers as supposed to pro teams you would just have to purchase as an add-on only or on their markers. But come on, lets just support the development of the new products, all people do is start getting into a frenzy over stuff that is outside of their control.

[Enos Shenk]

Im sure it matters very much to nicad or anyone else whos had someone with more money and more machines and more distribution come along and steal your thunder.

Im admittedly not a patent genius or anything, but as i understand it, the claims are the big part. Read the claims, bunch of ideas for magnetic stuff, and nothing about pneumatics, even though the cocker pneumatic system is described in the description.

Also note the filing date almost 2 years after what that PTP dude was claiming.

[LaW]

Im sure it matters very much to nicad or anyone else whos had someone with more money and more machines and more distribution come along and steal your thunder.

Im admittedly not a patent genius or anything, but as i understand it, the claims are the big part. Read the claims, bunch of ideas for magnetic stuff, and nothing about pneumatics, even though the cocker pneumatic system is described in the description.

Also note the filing date almost 2 years after what that PTP dude was claiming.

Doesnt matter to me... Things will be worked out eventually and some product will be released and both look fine to me. Besides the people involved why does everyone else have to step in, take sides and care so much? Not to mention that most people including me dont have enough details to even take a side... must be well informed in my opinion

[jamescell]

I think they should just show us how to make one for ourselves:) That way we wouldn't have to wait :D

[Mosfet]

so DW's frame is a pneumatic assist?
I thought it was pure mechanical (non pneu)

[jinxed]

Anyone know EXACTLY how it works?

Every description I've seen basically just shows an adaption of the VECTOR TRIGGER.

The Vector had a fully pneumatic trigger, AND WAS NOT PATENTED.

If I was Tom, and I'm not, I'd tell PTP to go to hell. The Vector came out 11 years ago.
Nothing PTP has is original. IT IS OLD TECHNOLOGY.

Did PTP get a patent? Sure.
A couple years ago, someone got a patent ON THE POWERFEED 10 years after TOM INVENTED IT to.

Its EASY to get a patnet. IT IS HARD to enfore it. From what I've seen, this PTP patent is worthless.

Nick

[Meph]

Well can at least read it, but for some reason the images won't work. Keep getting blank screen. Damn quicktime.

[Pain For Pleasure]

Well can at least read it, but for some reason the images won't work. Keep getting blank screen. Damn quicktime.
Mabey its their site? I had issues with the pictures on their site just the other day.

How did DW not hear of this before they started work. If they applied 3 years ago, I'm surprised no one heard of it. It also goes to show the shape our patent office is in.

[zaqwert6]

Also note the filing date almost 2 years after what that PTP dude was claiming.


The present application is based on and claims priority to U.S. Provisional Patent Application Ser. No. 60/252,230, filed on Nov. 21, 2000.

Sounds about right to me.

[Muzikman]

Problem I see is if PT does come out with a frame for the Mag, it's going to be like every other PT product, sloppy tolorances and not work half the time. I have not been too impressed by the things I have seen from PT over the years, with the exception of the MicroCockers. But even they had some issues.

I would like to see the hAir make it, and have it fully supported and sold by AGD. That way we know it will work.

[spantol]

I still can't see them through the USPTO site, but they show up just fine in HaveBlue's pdf:

http://haveblue.org/tech/patents/pat2pdf/pat6802305.pdf


Well can at least read it, but for some reason the images won't work. Keep getting blank screen. Damn quicktime.

[madmolly]

I know I was reading where the hair trigger was going to be around 250 to do. Now PTP price it has listed is 125.00. That is cheap. How can they be doing it for half the price of NICAD

[Mosfet]

ok, so if I just read that right, they've just patented the Autococker? WTF?
:confused:

Why can't they be more like Tippmann?
Was it Tippmann that had the Pin Valve for CO2 tanks, could have patented it, but decided not to, so that it would benefit Paintball as a whole?

[Janixs]

ok, so if I just read that right, they've just patented the Autococker? WTF?
:confused:

Why can't they be more like Tippmann?
Was it Tippmann that had the Pin Valve for CO2 tanks, could have patented it, but decided not to, so that it would benefit Paintball as a whole?
you can thank smarts parts for that

[gc82000]

Where did you see a price???

[teufelhunden]

ok, so if I just read that right, they've just patented the Autococker? WTF?
:confused:

Why can't they be more like Tippmann?
Was it Tippmann that had the Pin Valve for CO2 tanks, could have patented it, but decided not to, so that it would benefit Paintball as a whole?


Because this is paintball of new, not paintball of old. Paintball used to be about paintball.. and now it's about business.

Hope this is what all you guys wanted when you said "Let's get paintball huge.. let's get it on TV, popular, and accepted!"

Liked it back how it was, when I got a look when I said I balled, when there was 10 guys in my school that would get together and shoot at eachother for a day. When every other paintball conversation didn't involve SP/Nazis/Evil Empires..

[alouba]

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=260763&perpage=20&pagenumber=4

read the post by Steve Davidson near the middle

[Mosfet]

So will WGP have to start paying royalties in order to make cockers they've basically been making since the 90's?

or does the cocker make the pneumatic portion of the patent basically null and void?

[madmolly]

if you go to www.68caliber.com and read the article it says it is going to be at World Cup for 125.00 That seems way too cheap. Maybe not.

[Tim Taylor]

Take a look at the next patent! A neuromuscular disrupter.

I know it doesn't relate but that just sounds very Star Trek

Neuro Muscular Disrupter (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=2&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=Paintball&OS=Paintball)

[Aiecc Ixi]

i got a couple questions will it work for the mag? and i forgort my other one sorry :tard:

[ScatterPlot]

I didn't fully re ad that patent thing, can someone tell me the gist of what it covers? Does it cover ALL pneumatically triggered paintball guns, or just the special hAIR-type thingy? Cause pneumatics firing a gun is kinda broad. Sorta like one that would cover having a trigger on a paintball gun. I would understand if it was the special kind that is used in this PTP one and the DW one. BTW yeah, the DW is pneumatic. Where would the power to trip all that stuff come from? Plus pneumatics are considered mechanical. Stuff is pretty much either electrical or mechanical, if you're talking about pball stuff.

[jinxed]

The patent says that all mechanical guns have a trigger that is directly connected to a sear. (ie blowbacks, cockers, mags)

Basically, it says you could make the trigger pull lighter by having the trigger actuate a 3-way, and then having a ram trip the actual sear.

OK. Great.
Except, this is how the Vector, Epic, Equalizer, Omega, Nova, etc, do not have sears connected directly to the trigger. They are all fully pneumatic.

Plus, people have been doing pneumatic-trigger mods since 1994.

PTP could legitimetly claim they have the FIRST "BOLT-ON" kit. Not sure how that warrants a patent.... though it only takes an autotrigger, and some extra hose to make a cocker trigger fully pneumatic. This is an "old school" speed mod for cockers.

Consider the Equalizer I mentioned above. It works almost IDENTICAL to the MAG, except the trigger is fully pneumatic. That is probobly a clear example of prior art... as fair as AGD is concerned with there new trigger.

-Nick

[Mosfet]

So basically everyone can just ignore this patent and go about their merry way doing what they were doing! yeay! :D

[nt2004]

i got a couple questions will it work for the mag? and i forgort my other one sorry :tard:
i dont know but i guess you could turn a mag into a neuro muscular disrupter :D

[Aiecc Ixi]

noice im gonna get right on that



NOT :cuss: :mad:

lol jk

[ScatterPlot]

Actually, now that you say that, the patent would NOT cover mags. The trigger is not directly connected to the sear. It interacts with it, but it's not directly connected. Of course that would mean that spyders aren't either, and maybe this is just an issue of wording. Oh well.

[jinxed]

Of course that would mean that spyders aren't either, and maybe this is just an issue of wording. Oh well.

I think the exact language is "connected to the sear via mechanical linkage" which would include cockers, mags and blowbacks.

nick

[ScatterPlot]

Ah, ok, I didn't read the entire thing.